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The 70 weeks of Daniel is fulfilled and was a long time ago

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  • The 70 weeks of Daniel is fulfilled and was a long time ago

    Daniel lines up perfectly with the life of Jesus if anyone has ever studied this...I have some good links on it...most are quiet long though..trying to find something shorter to post:

    http://mikeblume.com/treece.htm
    What Is the Truth About "the Prince"
    in the 70 Weeks of Daniel?


    http://www.caledonianfire.org/caledo...ocs/daniel.htm
    Daniel

    http://www.historicism.com/mauro/mauroI-3.htm
    DETAILS OF THE SEVENTY WEEKS

    http://mikeblume.com/nogap.htm
    If Danielís 70th Week Was Fulfilled Without a Gap,
    Why is the Destruction of Jerusalem (40 years after the cross)
    Inserted in the 70 Weeks?



    Such a question is usually asked by folks who are not familiar with the wording of Daniel 9:24-27. The destruction of Jerusalem is not said to occur before the 70th Week of Daniel.

    The reason people assume it is, is due to a misunderstanding of the following verse:

    Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

    Verse 26 mentions 62 weeks. It is understood by all familiar with Daniel 9 that a previous 7 weeks, from verse 25, are already noted, and meant to be considered as well, in reading about the time after the 62 weeks. The coming of Messiah followed the 7 + 62 weeks, or after 69 weeks.

    At any rate, this verse is thought to indicate that this is simply saying that all the events listed in verse 26 must occur after the 69th week, and before the 70th week. These events include the event when Messiah would come and be cut off, or crucified, and Jerusalem would be destroyed. The error in this reasoning is that Daniel did not say that all of this would occur before the 70th Week. He simply said Messiah would come after the 7 + 62 Weeks, and then added some incidental issues about the Messiah, including His cutting off and the subsequent destruction of Jerusalem.


    This last one is probably the shortest of them all for those that don't have the time to read one of the longer ones. I haven't read through them all either actually.

    God bless
    "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

  • #2
    Amen.

    And when you see that the 70 weeks are fulfilled, then the whole pre, mid, and post theories come crashing down. Why? Because this is their grandfather clause, a yet to be fulfilled 70th week.

    All one has to do is read Isaiah 53 along with most of Hebrews and see that the 6 things listed in Daniel 9:24 have all been accomplished, mostly by Jesus's work on the Cross.

    Comment


    • #3
      Double Amen!!




      Although the popular view of the day in bookstores and TV Evangelistic circles is that the 70th week of Daniel is a future event; broke off and to be separated from the first 1-69 weeks by a gap of 2000+ years;

      Does Daniel 9 explicitly teach this unnatural, unliteral Gap?
      Does the OT teach this anywhere else?
      Does the NT teach this either?

      Or is it possible the NT teaches contrarily to this popular view; and instead; teaches that the entire set of 70 weeks were fulfilled together as one unit; by Christ at His first coming?

      The most natural, clear and literal interpretation would be to expect the 70th week prophecy to be a single unit; and for the 70th week to be completed following the same precedence that the weeks 1,2,3,4...68, 69 were completed.

      And, since Jesus and His first-coming and crucifixion is described as being apart of the 70 weeks prophecies; it is more logical and literal to expect that all of the 70 weeks prophecy pertained in some form of fulfillment to Jesus First Coming which occurred during that 70week period.

      Let's look at Daniel 9:24-27's verses and see if they do not ALL show a literal, plain, and logical fullfillment during Jesus time; not some future speculative; clock-stopping time 2000+ years in the future...

      Daniel 9:24
      ************************************************** ****************
      1. "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city"
      ************************************************** ****************

      You got 70weeks of years; or 490 literal and consecutive years left for Messiah to Come and accomplish His goals which are explained hereafter; no mention of a clock or any gaps.



      ************************************************** ****************
      2. "to finish the transgression"
      ************************************************** ****************

      (Jesus fulfilled this at Calvary circa 33 AD)

      Hebrews 9:15 "That is why he is the one who mediates the new covenant between God and people, so that all who are invited can receive the eternal inheritance God has promised them. For Christ died to set them free from the penalty of the sins they had committed under that first covenant."

      John 4:34 "Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work."

      Romans 04:15 "Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace"




      ************************************************** ****************
      3. "to make an end of sins"
      ************************************************** ****************

      (Jesus fulfilled this at Calvary circa 33 AD)

      Romans 8:1 "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

      I John 3:5 "And ye know that He was manifested to take away our sins; and in Him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not"

      2 Cor 5:21 "For He hath made Him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him."




      ************************************************** ****************
      4. "to make reconciliation for iniquity"
      ************************************************** ****************

      (Jesus fulfilled this at Calvary circa 33 AD)

      Hebrews 2:17 "Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people."

      2 Corin 5:19 "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them"



      ************************************************** ****************
      5. "to bring in everlasting righteousness"
      ************************************************** ****************

      (Jesus fulfilled this at Calvary circa 33 AD)

      Matthew 3:15 "And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him."

      Romans 5:21 "That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord."

      Hebrews 1:08 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."



      ************************************************** ****************
      6. "to seal up the vision and prophecy"
      ************************************************** ****************

      (Jesus fulfilled this at Calvary circa 33 AD)

      Luke 18:31 "Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished."

      Luke 24:44 "And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me."

      Matt 26:56 "But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled."




      ************************************************** ****************
      7. "to anoint the Most Holy"
      ************************************************** ****************


      (Jesus fulfilled this at Calvary circa 33 AD)

      Acts 10:38 "How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him."

      Acts 04:27 "For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed"

      Luke 04:18 "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel"





      Daniel 9:25
      ************************************************** ****************
      "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times."
      ************************************************** ************


      1. From the decree to rebuild Jerusalem unto Messiah's comingis 483 years (69 weeks). Ezra 7:12-26
      ************************************************** ****************
      (Jesus fulfilled this at Calvary circa 33 AD)




      Daniel 9:26
      ************************************************** ****************
      1. "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off,but not for himself"
      ************************************************** ****************

      (Jesus fulfilled this at Calvary circa 33 AD)

      Isaiah 53:7 "He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken."

      Acts 8:32 "The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth: In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth."




      ************************************************** ****************
      "and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."
      ************************************************** ****************


      (Jesus fulfilled this at Calvary circa 33 AD)

      Jesus predicted the temple would be destroyed; both figuratively referring to His Body; and literally through the later hands of the Roman General Titus

      John 2:19 "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."

      Luke 21:5 "And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said, As for these things which ye behold, the days will come(Roman General Titus), in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."




      Daniel 9:27
      ************************************************** ****************
      "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:"
      ************************************************** ****************


      (Jesus fulfilled this at Calvary circa 33 AD)

      Hebrews 9:20 "Then he said, 'This blood confirms the covenant God has made with you.'"

      Galatians 3:17 "And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ"

      Mark 14:24 "This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many"

      Matthew 26:28 "This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins."

      Luke 22:20 "After supper he took another cup of wine and said, "This wine is the token of God's new covenant to save you--an agreement sealed with the blood I will pour out for you."

      Romans 11:27 "For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

      Jeremiah 31:31 "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

      Hebrews 12:24 "And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things that that of Abel."

      Hebrews 13:20 "Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant"






      ************************************************** ****************
      "in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the
      oblation to cease"
      ************************************************** ****************


      (Jesus fulfilled this at Calvary circa 33 AD)

      Jesus Ministry lasted half of 7 years or 3.5 years; because John's Gospel records Him participating in 3 passovers as an adult. (John 2:13, 6:4, 11:55); showing that in the midst of the final 70th week; (verse 9:26 says He will be cut-off "AFTER" the 69th week; which necessitates Him being cut-off sometime within the 70th week. Likewise, we see that when Jesus was cut-off; the sacrifice and oblation was ceased; sin's debt was paid forevermore at that moment; in His blood!

      Mark 15:37 "And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost. And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom."

      Hebrews 10:2 "For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever..For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."

      Hebrews 10:18 "Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh"

      Hebrews 9:26 "For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself."





      ************************************************** ****************
      "and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."
      ************************************************** ****************


      (Jesus fulfilled this at Calvary circa 33 AD)

      Matthew 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

      Acts 17:26 "And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation"








      So if you want to build speculations and guesswork on what the 70 weeks prophecy means; and if you want to introduce unbiblical clocks; stopwatches; gaps; theories; etc....you are free to make that choice.

      You can do that; or you can choose to take Daniel 9's 70th week in a plain, logical, literal sense; and allow the above 34 New Testament verses that show the fullfillment of Daniel chapter 9's 70 weeks to build your understanding.

      I once believed the same thing you do too;
      ...about a prophetic clock that had stopped;
      ...and a 7 year/week still left to go cast 2000 years into the future

      But when I tested that view against scripture;

      I found this view I had been taught and is quite popular these days simply wasn't grounded from scripture; but was added into the scriptures from some external speculations.

      Instead I found the fulfillment of that 70 week passage throughout the New Testament writings above that pointed to Calvary.....I realized I needed to change my view; and get rid of my old, flawed notions.

      I hope the Lord can use His words above on this matter to help others who may be travelling the same path I did do the same!

      Comment


      • #4
        That was a truly excellent post David Taylor...can I have your premission to copy it for future use? I will give you credit for it as the author, of course. This is what I was looking for...the verses in the OT lining up with the verse in the NT on this that doesn't droll on forever...

        I also grew up being taught about the 'gap' in the 70's weeks in church...most that believe this, believe it because they were raised with it being taught. I see how when the word 'generation' is used, everyone assumed the generation Jesus was in, EXCEPT when it comes to that verse in Matthew 24....

        Matthew 24:34
        Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place


        Instead people twist and turn it to mean something else....

        Anyway that was a great post, and I truly enjoyed reading it.


        God bless
        "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

        Comment


        • #5
          Guys

          Can I add an amen to your posts. The futuristic decapitation of an harmonious prophecy doesn't add up. Anyway, as has already been said, what was predicted was perfectly fulfilled at Christ's earthly ministry.

          If you were directed to go to the next county and told it was exactly a 490-mile journey (right down to the very yard). You were told that in-between the starting point and your destination you would pass two important landmarks, the first after 49 miles, which was accurate to the very yard. The next was a further 434 miles ahead (bringing your journey to 483 miles in total), which also occurred right down to the very yard. The journey's end would be a final 7 miles down the road from your second landmark, making your total journey 490 miles. Exactly half way between 483 miles and 490 (486 Ĺ miles) you would witness a monumental landmark that would surpass anything you have ever seen. How would you then feel if you were told when you hit the second landmark that your final location was still a possible 2,000+ miles down the road with NO exact finishing point? Such an idea would be totally unthinkable in the natural, but unprecedented in God's economy. God always fulfils His promises.

          The unitary 70 weeks are clearly split into 3 (integral) parts.

          7 = 49 yrs
          62 = 434 yrs
          1 = 7 yrs

          Total = 490 (harmonious unitary) yrs

          Paul
          "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).

          http://www.evangelicaltruth.com/

          WPM

          Comment


          • #6
            David Taylor,
            I found your assessment quite interesting. I would like for you, if you would, to clear up a couple questions I have though, in the following verses.
            Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
            27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
            First question:
            Obviously there is a difference of opinion regarding the identity of 'he' in verse 27. Does that 'he' refer to the Messiah, or to the 'prince that shall come', and how do you make the distinction?
            Second question:
            Whoever the 'he' is, it says he confirms the covenant for one week, not part of it. If the Messiah dies in midweek, thus bringing an end to the sacrifice and oblation, then how can he confirm the covenant for one week? Or, what took place during the next 3 1/2 years after His crucifixion that can be a;considered Him confirming the covenant, and b;came to an end when the 3 1/2 years was finished?

            Comment


            • #7
              Depends on who is asked, Christians, or Jews

              The 70 Weeks of Daniel 9

              is

              70 Jubilees!!!


              The text of the Daniel 9:24-27 prophecy hasbeen a treasure map and many have struggledwithout success trying to find its gems.The vital clue has been:- The Hebrew word 'weeks' in Daniel 9:24,25,26 is present in the 'masculine' form!This has generated much confusion, however the following explains theimplications of this grammatical form. (The masculine form is commonlyreferred to as representing a 'heptad'.)Feminine form (normal ) - eg 70 x (single weeks)Masculine form (unusual) - eg 70 x (multiple weeks)!!!

              Comment


              • #8
                Here is the probable seires of events

                THE SEVENTY WEEKS PROPHECY.
                A KEY TO UNDERSTANDING THE TWO COMINGS OF MESSIAH.


                Daniel's Prophecy of the 70 Weeks was an an important key to understanding the first coming of Messiah. And it will also be an important key to the Second Coming of Messiah at the climax of this age.
                The prophecy of the Seventy Weeks of Daniel is not really all that complicated. The timeline has two parts. The first segment is a period of 7 plus 62 weeks or 69 weeks. These are 69 heptads or "sevens" of biblical years. That 69 week timespan of 69 X 7 = 483 biblical years began with e the Edict of Artaxerxes to Nehemiah. And it terminated precisely 483 x 360 = 173,880 days later on the day of the day of first coming of Christ to His Holy city as Messiah, the suffering servant. It was Palm Sunday.
                The second segment, the 70th week, is yet to come. It will be a period of one "seven" or seven biblical years. This will terminate on the Day of the Lord. This, of course, will be the Second Coming of Christ as Messiah.
                This time He will not be coming as the Suffering Servant.
                He will be the Conquering King.
                It is very important for Christian believers to understand that the 70th Week of Daniel is yet future. It will be the final seven years of this age. It is a period upon which details from Daniel and details from Revelation and other scriptures can be laid out. This then gives us an accurate timeline of end-time events. WHY WE MUST UNDERSTAND THE REALITY AND PURPOSE OF THE FUTURE 70TH WEEK.

                This truth of the future 70th week of Daniel is a valuable key to the endtime. This is an extremely important piece of information for Christians to have nailed down. They should become fully persuaded in their minds about the two parts of the Seventy Week Prophecy. Seven biblical years of 360 days are yet to run. If we do our homework here and handle the Holy Scriptures faithfully it should be no problem for us to arrive at this important truth.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Okay, another question I have is this:
                  The Messiah was to come at the end of the 69 weeks. Is that referring to the time of His birth, or the beginning of His ministry?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    GW: It is very important for Christian believers to understand that the 70th Week of Daniel is yet future. It will be the final seven years of this age. It is a period upon which details from Daniel and details from Revelation and other scriptures can be laid out.
                    Apparently you did NOT read my first post or any of the following posts, let alone the links...we do NOT agree with the twisting of scriptures and jumping through hoops AND assumption it takes to believe your views...

                    Closes minds learn nothing.
                    "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Evidently there are two sets of weeks

                      One of course in til his Ministry begins and his death, the other is what is occuring now, and it ends also at his coming the second time

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Closes minds learn nothing....


                        Yep you are right, but it depends on whose mind is closed

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I already studied the stuff you believe in.....was raised on it actually. Until I started studying scriptures for myself and realizing it didn't add up...

                          That is the problem...not doing the studying of God's word without our minds being slanted towards a certain view to start with...it causes us to see what we want to see, and ingore what doesn't fit. No scripture, or parts of it should ever be ingored. That is why I was refering too on closed minds..
                          "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well I have been studing the Bible for 50 years

                            And my conclusion is vastly different from most of the Church, The Bible simply dosent say many things the church believes.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Perhaps it would be better if I just read posts and abstain from posting

                              I disagree with many things mainly because the Bible dosent support it. The things it dosent most christians support, so it might be a good thing, for me and most of you. All my posting does is lead to conflict


                              pS, one thread was even shut down because it was said I was unchristian, or something to that effect

                              Comment

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