Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Armageddon, and the prophecies in the Bible

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Discussion Armageddon, and the prophecies in the Bible

    I'm sure you all discussed this plenty of times...

    We all know there is an ending, but people want to know how close are we.
    This is a discussion thread, so you can freely discuss your thoughts. I like to point out some things... If you guys haven't heard of Brother Irvan Baxtor, well him and his wife are President and Vice President of Endtime Ministries and i was thankful to see him in Missouri.. but back on topic...


    Armageddon


    Nine specific prophecies in the Bible will occur within the final seven years prior to the Battle of Armageddon. By examining these prophecies, we can get a sense of how close we are to Armageddon.

    1 The Final seven years will begin when the Antichrist and the international community give their support to Israel's right to exist in the Land Promised to Abraham by God. This is called the conformation of the covenant (Daniel 9:27 & Genesis 15:18)

    Israeli Prime Minister has openly stated that the number one goal of his administration is to obtain the support of the international community for Israel Final Boaders. He hopes to achieve this by the end of 2008

    2 A war will begin from the vicinity of the euphrates river (Revelation 9:13-16)

    Most of the Euphrates River is in Iraq. The United States has 140,000 troops stationed along the Euphrates at this time. The conflict between the U.S. and Islamic Fundamentalism is not diminishing, but increasing around the world.

    3 The West Bank (Judea) in Israel will become a place of great tribulation (Matthew 24:15-21)

    Ehud Olmert has openly said that he will withdraw from the West Bank (Judea) by the end of 2008. Then, recently, he announced that his convergance-withdrawal plans is off "NO LONGER RELEVANT." Whether or not Israel withdraws, the prophecy is clear that there will be slaughter in Judea.

    4 The temple Mount in Juresalem will be placed under a sharing arrangement between jew and gentile (Revelation 11:1-2).

    President Clinton suggested the Sharing of the Temple Mount in July of 2000. It is generally believed this is the only possible solution in the Temple Mount disipute whenever the issue is finally resolved.

    5 The Jewish Temple will be built on the Temple Mount (Revelation 11:1-2 & 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4).

    All the funiture for Israel's Third Temple is now complete; Israel has her long-sought-for red heifer, which is needed before the re-establishment of temple worship; and in June of 2005, the newly re-born Sanhedrin announced they were preceding with building the temple. They intend to pre-fabricate it off-site.

    6
    The Temple Mount will be be placed under the supervision of the World Community and the Leader of the World Community, The Antichrist, will stand on the Temple Mount, claiming to be God (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4)

    The Temple Mount will be placed under the supervision of the world community and the leader of the world community, THE ANTICHRIST, will stand on the Temple Mount, claming to be God (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4). Ehud Barak, Israeli Prime Minister in the year 2000, suggested placing the Temple Mount UNDER UN(United Nation) CONTROL in order to make a sharing of the Temple Mount possible. When the UN takes control of the Temple Mount, the leader of the world government will feel justified in claiming ultimate authority there.

    7 A World Government will dominate the World for three and one-half years prior to Armageddon (Daniel 7:23 & Revelation 13:7)

    The nations of the world are increasingly recognizing the authority of International Law. We now have the World Bank, the Worl Trade Organization, the World Health Organization and the World Court just to name few. We have a World Court to adjudicate the international law of the emerging world government.

    8 Each Person on will be required to have a Mark or a Number in order to buy or sell (Revelation 13:16-18).

    On May 11, 2005, President Bush signed the Real ID ACT. The law requires that every American must have a national ID card by May 11, 2008 (which had been pushed back, but might be before bush gets out of office; i don't know). Without a job or a bank account, how much buying and selling will an individual be able to do? lol ... Oh, by the way, you can't get your card without givnig your number.. your social security number.. lol

    9 The World Community, led by Russia and Iran, will invade the nation of Israel (Zechariah 14:2-4 & Ezekiel 38 & 39).

    I do believe Iran is Persia and Russia is Meshech (which the root word for Moscovi or Moscow)... and guess what they are NOW in alliance. Iran is the leading advocate of "wiping Israel off the map".

    But don't worry OUR GOD will have is Victory, and Israel will not be destroyed... !!

    This might not be really accurate, but i do know we are pushing it to the last days.. The generations growing up i think is the last generation... but this is what i believe, so i guess you can say this is my own travisology...

  • #2
    Originally posted by TravisJ View Post
    I'm sure you all discussed this plenty of times...

    We all know there is an ending, but people want to know how close are we.
    This is a discussion thread, so you can freely discuss your thoughts. I like to point out some things... If you guys haven't heard of Brother Irvan Baxtor, well him and his wife are President and Vice President of Endtime Ministries and i was thankful to see him in Missouri.. but back on topic...


    Armageddon


    Nine specific prophecies in the Bible will occur within the final seven years prior to the Battle of Armageddon. By examining these prophecies, we can get a sense of how close we are to Armageddon.

    1 The Final seven years will begin when the Antichrist and the international community give their support to Israel's right to exist in the Land Promised to Abraham by God. This is called the conformation of the covenant (Daniel 9:27 & Genesis 15:18)

    (That is right!Condaleeza rice just got back from Isreal about the talks of a peace aggreement with Olmert,but she says the new American President will have to be the one to sign and help fulfill this agreement as well...They are still talking about what part of Isreal land will be divided at this time....I am almost certain that this is the 7 year peace agreement that starts the "Great tribulation"!I also believe that Barack Obama will win the Presidency and sign and fulfill that prophesy and I also believe he is the Antichrist(Beast) written in Revelations 17,18)...I truly believe this in my heart...

    Israeli Prime Minister has openly stated that the number one goal of his administration is to obtain the support of the international community for Israel Final Boaders. He hopes to achieve this by the end of 2008

    2 A war will begin from the vicinity of the euphrates river (Revelation 9:13-16)

    Most of the Euphrates River is in Iraq. The United States has 140,000 troops stationed along the Euphrates at this time. The conflict between the U.S. and Islamic Fundamentalism is not diminishing, but increasing around the world.

    3 The West Bank (Judea) in Israel will become a place of great tribulation (Matthew 24:15-21)

    Ehud Olmert has openly said that he will withdraw from the West Bank (Judea) by the end of 2008. Then, recently, he announced that his convergance-withdrawal plans is off "NO LONGER RELEVANT." Whether or not Israel withdraws, the prophecy is clear that there will be slaughter in Judea.

    4 The temple Mount in Juresalem will be placed under a sharing arrangement between jew and gentile (Revelation 11:1-2).

    President Clinton suggested the Sharing of the Temple Mount in July of 2000. It is generally believed this is the only possible solution in the Temple Mount disipute whenever the issue is finally resolved.

    5 The Jewish Temple will be built on the Temple Mount (Revelation 11:1-2 & 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4).

    All the funiture for Israel's Third Temple is now complete; Israel has her long-sought-for red heifer, which is needed before the re-establishment of temple worship; and in June of 2005, the newly re-born Sanhedrin announced they were preceding with building the temple. They intend to pre-fabricate it off-site.

    6 The Temple Mount will be be placed under the supervision of the World Community and the Leader of the World Community, The Antichrist, will stand on the Temple Mount, claiming to be God (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4)

    The Temple Mount will be placed under the supervision of the world community and the leader of the world community, THE ANTICHRIST, will stand on the Temple Mount, claming to be God (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4). Ehud Barak, Israeli Prime Minister in the year 2000, suggested placing the Temple Mount UNDER UN(United Nation) CONTROL in order to make a sharing of the Temple Mount possible. When the UN takes control of the Temple Mount, the leader of the world government will feel justified in claiming ultimate authority there.

    7 A World Government will dominate the World for three and one-half years prior to Armageddon (Daniel 7:23 & Revelation 13:7)

    The nations of the world are increasingly recognizing the authority of International Law. We now have the World Bank, the Worl Trade Organization, the World Health Organization and the World Court just to name few. We have a World Court to adjudicate the international law of the emerging world government.(as above the 7 year peace agreement is the beginning of the "great tribulation"...The 1st 3 1/2 years are "somewhat peaceful" and the Antichrist does his thing...Then he will spill blood like never before and also kill the 2 witnesses as well and wants to sit in the house of David and claim he is himself Christ...But Don't Worry....Jesus comes back with his army and destroys this Antichrist!)

    8 Each Person on will be required to have a Mark or a Number in order to buy or sell (Revelation 13:16-18).

    On May 11, 2005, President Bush signed the Real ID ACT. The law requires that every American must have a national ID card by May 11, 2008 (which had been pushed back, but might be before bush gets out of office; i don't know). Without a job or a bank account, how much buying and selling will an individual be able to do? lol ... Oh, by the way, you can't get your card without givnig your number.. your social security number.. lol (You are right,which is why I haven't even responded to the thread that says "Mark of the beast" is Spiritual(well..in a way I guess it is)....because it isn't!You will be given a choice to wear the name or the number of his name(666) and you will not be able to buy or sell without the mark or the name of this individual...If you choose to wear the number than you can eat and buy things and you are also DOOMED to hell for eternity)Those who find a way to escape him and the mark are with wisdom and will find their way into the Lords kingdom!

    9 The World Community, led by Russia and Iran, will invade the nation of Israel (Zechariah 14:2-4 & Ezekiel 38 & 39).

    I do believe Iran is Persia and Russia is Meshech (which the root word for Moscovi or Moscow)... and guess what they are NOW in alliance. Iran is the leading advocate of "wiping Israel off the map".

    But don't worry OUR GOD will have is Victory, and Israel will not be destroyed... !!

    This might not be really accurate, but i do know we are pushing it to the last days.. The generations growing up i think is the last generation... but this is what i believe, so i guess you can say this is my own travisology...
    (And the kings of the east of the Orients with an army of 200 million...Who do you think that is?)it's China by the way!By the way...China and Russia are very tight!

    So where is America in this Armageddon "great tribulation battle"?Aren't we Isreal's biggest ally..?You can't protect someone when you have been destroyed...Which is another reason I believe we are Mystery "babylon" in the bible...They get destroyed before the great tribulation my friends...Many are almost certain it's a middle eastern country....I believe many have mistaken!If I'm right,that is also when the rapture takes place as well...When we are attacked and God takes us out of her...well...read and you will know...rev.17 and 18,19 and 20...

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by aceinthehouse View Post
      (And the kings of the east of the Orients with an army of 200 million...Who do you think that is?)it's China by the way!By the way...China and Russia are very tight!

      So where is America in this Armageddon "great tribulation battle"?Aren't we Isreal's biggest ally..?You can't protect someone when you have been destroyed...Which is another reason I believe we are Mystery "babylon" in the bible...They get destroyed before the great tribulation my friends...Many are almost certain it's a middle eastern country....I believe many have mistaken!If I'm right,that is also when the rapture takes place as well...When we are attacked and God takes us out of her...well...read and you will know...rev.17 and 18,19 and 20...
      How do you think China will be able to mobilise 200 million, all the way from China to Israel?

      Comment


      • #4
        I know that is China.. and Russia is going to ally with China and Iran is going to ally with Russia... China making up 1 billion of the world population, and Russia being also a pretty strong power.. It says in the bible.. that 1/3 of the population of the World will die.. thats 2 billion people...

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Partaker of Christ View Post
          How do you think China will be able to mobilise 200 million, all the way from China to Israel?
          I would expect they wouldn't all be leaving from china...I would imagine since they are allied with Russia,that many troops could be stationed there or anywhere for that matter...

          Like we have bases all over the world,I would imagine China would have the same with there allies...

          Kind of like...If we attacked Iran to stop there nuke program......would we do it from the United States? or would we strike from Iraq or even Saudia Arabia where we have a base and troops?

          Comment


          • #6
            Those of you who still buy Hal Lindsey's comedy that the 200 million-man army is China, have you bothered to actually read Revelation's description of that army?
            ----------------------------------------------
            When the plain sense of Scripture make sense, seek no other sense.

            Comment


            • #7
              You guys are walking a fine line here, with discussion and poking, lets go in the discussion direction and leave off totally with the poking direction. Everyone word we speak here has an effect and sets the tone, so lets have tone of complete respect.


              sigpic

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by TravisJ View Post
                I'm sure you all discussed this plenty of times...

                We all know there is an ending, but people want to know how close are we.
                Travis

                A very good article, well researched

                my God; in Him I will trust (Psa 91:2).

                If you have not accepted Jesus Christ as your Savior, NOW is the time.

                Persevere, pray and be ready for the Return of Christ.

                Comment


                • #9
                  and Iran is going to ally with Russia..
                  I tend to speculate even more extreme: that Iran is going to BECOME Russia. Become another Muslim province, kind of like Uzbekistan. If I were surrounded on all sides and threatened to become another Iraq, that's what I would do: turn to Russia.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TravisJ View Post
                    1 The Final seven years will begin when the Antichrist and the international community give their support to Israel's right to exist in the Land Promised to Abraham by God. This is called the conformation of the covenant (Daniel 9:27 & Genesis 15:18)
                    Daniel 9:27 doesn't explicitly mention a villainous antichrist. If you notice, Daniel 9:24-27 introduces us to a figure called "Messiah, the Prince" (or "the ruler" or something similar, depending on your translation). Daniel 9:27 speaks of its prince with the definitive article "the" - which "the prince" is this, other than the one already mentioned, "Messiah, the Prince"? Besides, Daniel 9:27 doesn't mention anything about the land of Israel in relation to the covenant being made.

                    4 The temple Mount in Juresalem will be placed under a sharing arrangement between jew and gentile (Revelation 11:1-2).
                    This is a drastic understatement of what is going on between the Jews and Gentiles in these verses. This isn't a happy relationship. The Jews aren't "sharing" with the Gentiles - the Gentiles are stomping on Jerusalem. Compare one of Jesus' prophecies with what is being said in the Revelation:

                    Jesus: "They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled."

                    The Revelation: "But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months."

                    There is no "sharing" going on here, it's an oppression of the Gentiles upon the city of Jerusalem.

                    5 The Jewish Temple will be built on the Temple Mount (Revelation 11:1-2 & 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4).
                    Neither of these verses says anything about a new temple being built. 2 Thessalonians was irrefutably written during the time of the Second Temple of Jerusalem, and there is considerably strong evidence to show that the Revelation was written during that time period as well. As such, since neither author mentions a new temple being built, and they both wrote during the time period of the second temple, and neither goes out of their way to identify "which number of temple this is," then the simplest explanation is that they were each referring to the very temple that was still standing at that time.

                    On May 11, 2005, President Bush signed the Real ID ACT. The law requires that every American must have a national ID card by May 11, 2008 (which had been pushed back, but might be before bush gets out of office; i don't know). Without a job or a bank account, how much buying and selling will an individual be able to do? lol ... Oh, by the way, you can't get your card without givnig your number.. your social security number.. lol
                    Why is this such a huge deal?

                    A national ID card? Oh no! The government knows who I am! Sorry for the sarcasm, but they ALREADY know who we are. They were the ones who assigned us our social security numbers. We've already got things exactly the same, namely Driver's Licenses, SSNs, etc. The Real ID card isn't unique.

                    9 The World Community, led by Russia and Iran, will invade the nation of Israel (Zechariah 14:2-4 & Ezekiel 38 & 39).
                    Where's Russia in this text?

                    Meshech (which the root word for Moscovi or Moscow)
                    Moscow's etymology is not known. This is purely speculative based on the sole fact that Meshech and Moscow vaguely sound the same. Moscow was named after the Moskva River. The Moskva River's name, though not known with 100% certainty, is widely considered to be derived from some sort of Finno-Permic word for "water" (possibly meaning "cow river" or "bear river" or even "dark water"). Meshech, on the other hand, is derived from a Hebrew word meaning "to draw [out], to seize, to proceed, etc." There's no real relation between the two words.
                    To This Day

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Where's Russia in this text?
                      Not that I agree with this (not that I don't, either...), but it's commonly rooted in the use of the Hebrew words "Gog" and "Magog". "Gog" means "roof", or "north". "Magog" means "from the roof", or "from the north". So logically it may well mean Russia.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Isn't Magog the ancestor of the Slavic people?
                        "I could not but smile out to God in praises,
                        in assurance of victory,
                        because God would by things that are not,
                        bring to naught things that are.
                        Of which I had great assurance, and God did it"
                        - Oliver Cromwell

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Gog/Magog Explained - Part One of Two

                          Is Gog Antichrist?

                          There is a divergence of opinion among many modern prophecy teachers regarding the identification of Gog and his coalition of nations. The majority position for the past few centuries — really ever since the Reformation — is that the invading army of nations described in Ezekiel 38-39 is not the army of Antichrist, but of another army entirely led by some other vague evil world leader. This is because of a common assumption that the Antichrist would be of European ancestry. However, a careful re-examination can lead one to a more clearly defined conclusion.

                          Thou Shalt Have No Other Gog

                          There are two specific mentions of Gog and Magog in the Bible. Gog is mentioned not only in Ezekiel but also in Revelation. Let’s look at the passage in Revelation 20:7-10:

                          When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth — Gog and Magog — and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown.

                          Even after the earthly thousand-year reign of Christ from Jerusalem, the Bible says that yet another army will form to attack the holy city of Jerusalem. Again, the leader of this army is called Gog and his army, Magog. Those who take the position that Gog is not the Antichrist must explain how this “Gog” and his armies return, so to speak, at least a thousand years after the first Gog. (Note: This is not to suggest that this is a “resurrection” of Gog. In fact, I would strongly disagree with such a suggestion.) This is a difficulty for those who argue that Gog and the Antichrist are not the same individual. The first “Gog and Magog” must share more than a mere name with the second “Gog and Magog” or why would the Bible give them the same name? There is a correlation between the two that extends beyond this very unusual title. Those who see Gog and the Antichrist as two separate entities must be able to explain just what similarities the Gog of Ezekiel and the Gog of Revelation bear that merits them both carrying the same name. So far I have yet to see a satisfactory explanation.

                          Actually, in order to understand who Revelation 20’s Gog is, all one must really do is take a look at who Antichrist is. Antichrist, quite simply, is the closest Satan can get to creating the “devil incarnate”. There are actually passages of Scripture that shift from speaking of Satan to speaking of the Antichrist seamlessly as if they are one and the same, such as Isaiah 14. And as we find in Revelation 13 and 17, Satan will even share his worship with Antichrist. Simply stated, Antichrist is Satan’s puppet that he will use to attack Jerusalem. And in Revelation 20, Gog is also Satan’s puppet that will serve the very same purpose, trying to wipe out Israel and as a consequence, God’s kingdom. In terms of both role and function, Antichrist and the Gog of Revelation are essentially the same. Even as Satan will raise up a man to carry out his work in the Tribulation, so will Satan also raise up another man to carry out his final rebellion against God one more time at the end of the Millennium. Both times, the leader of Satan’s rebellion against Jerusalem is referred to as Gog and his army is called Magog. Why should we view the basic nature of the first Gog as being any different than the second? Those who view Ezekiel’s Gog as different from Antichrist find themselves at a loss to provide any explanation on this matter.

                          Spoken Of By the Former Prophets

                          Consider this second point carefully, for it is essential. Ezekiel says specifically of Gog that other biblical prophets spoke of him in times past:

                          This is what the Sovereign Lord says: ‘You are the one I spoke of in former days by my servants the prophets of Israel. At that time they prophesied for years that I would bring you against them.’” —Ezekiel 38:17

                          The question must be asked then, if Gog is spoken of by Israel’s former prophets prior to Ezekiel but Gog is not the Antichrist, then where are these references? One will be very hard pressed to find any. In fact, I have yet to see a single treatment of this subject by those who claim that Gog is not the Antichrist. If, however, we take the position that Gog is Antichrist, then it is very easy to find numerous passages about him and his invading army throughout the prophets.

                          The Description of Gog’s Defeat

                          There is another strong reason to equate Gog with the Antichrist. It is because the descriptions concerning the destruction of Gog and his armies are strikingly similar to the destruction of the Antichrist and his armies in Revelation and Zechariah. For example:

                          I will summon a sword against Gog on all my mountains, declares the Sovereign LORD. Every man’s sword will be against his fellow. I will execute judgment on him with plague and bloodshed; I will pour down torrents of rain, hailstones and burning sulfur on him and on his troops and on the many nations with him. Then I will strike your bow from your left hand and make your arrows drop from your right hand. On the mountains of Israel you will fall, you and all your troops and the nations with you. I will give you as food to all kinds of carrion birds and to the wild animals. You will fall in the open field, for I have spoken, declares the Sovereign Lord. I will send fire on Magog and on those who live in safety in the coastlands, and they will know that I am the Lord. ——Ezekiel 38:22; 39:3-6

                          Similarly in Revelation, concerning the destruction of the Antichrist and his armies, we read:

                          Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. ‘He will rule them with an iron scepter.’ He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, ‘Come, gather together for the great supper of God, so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.’ Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse and his army. But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.” —Revelation 19:11-21

                          It is interesting to note that in both passages, a feast is prepared for the scavenging birds to feast on the flesh of the dead from the fallen armies. In both passages, we also read about the sword that God will bring against the attacking armies and their leaders. The most reasonable conclusion would seem to be that we have two descriptions of one event each from slightly, though very similar perspectives. Ezekiel describes this terrible event from one angle while Revelation describes it from another.

                          In addition, look at Ezekiel 39:18a – “You [the carrion birds] will eat the flesh of mighty men and drink the blood of the princes of the earth” This reference to the “princes of the earth” makes no sense if Gog is only an isolated Russian ruler doomed to immediate destruction. A person who believes that Antichrist and Gog are different people would have to assume that the nations in the list of invaders were being referenced here, so why would the birds be eating the princes of the earth? Would it not be only the princes of the nations listed by Ezekiel? But if Gog is the Antichrist, it makes perfect sense. It is because by the time this “great supper of God Almighty” takes place, the invaders of Gog/Magog will have been joined by the forces of Armageddon so the “princes of the earth” will indeed be present for this to be fulfilled precisely as described in the Bible.

                          In addition, notice one other detail from Zechariah 14:13 – “On that day people will be stricken by the LORD with great panic. They will seize each other by the hand and attack one another.

                          It is commonly agreed by most students of Biblical prophecy that Zechariah 14 is describing the Second Coming, because it mentions numerous details that could only be true of the Second Coming, including the famous description of the Lord standing on the Mount of Olives. Here in verse 13 of that chapter we see in the underlined portion that one of the means of the destruction of the Antichrist’s armies will be them fighting against each other. Notice this similar description from Ezekiel 38:21 – “Every man’s sword will be against his fellow.” There are too many parallels between the destruction of the two armies to dismiss them as being two separate armies.

                          The Result of Gog’s Defeat

                          Another important reason to see Gog as the Antichrist is because the results of Gog’s destruction are things that may only take place after Christ has returned. After describing Gog’s destruction, God declares:

                          “I will show my greatness and my holiness, and I will make myself known in the sight of many nations. Then they will know that I am the Lord. I will send fire on Magog and on those who live in safety in the coastlands, and they will know that I am the Lord. I will make known my holy name among my people Israel. I will no longer let my holy name be profaned, and the nations will know that I the Lord am the Holy One in Israel. It is coming! It will surely take place, declares the Sovereign Lord. This is the day I have spoken of.” —Ezekiel 38:21-23; 39:6-8

                          God Himself says that after the defeat of Gog, both the Gentile nations and Israelord” and God’s name is no longer “profaned”. The description of what will take place after Gog’s destruction is one that can only be applied to that period after Christ returns and has utterly destroyed all of His enemies. will know that He is God. No longer will His name be profaned. This description could not possibly be applied to some earlier invasion that takes place just prior to the coming forth of the Antichrist who will then spend years openly blaspheming God’s name, all the while gathering a global following in the process. That does not sound like a world where “the nations know that I am the L

                          A person arguing that Gog is not the Antichrist must answer this question: Why would God allow the Antichrist or anyone else to persecute Israel after He has “gathered them to Himself” in Ezekiel 39:27-28? If Gog isn’t the Antichrist, then the Antichrist will be allowed to persecute Israel after God had “gathered Israel to Himself”.

                          Beyond this, we also read that after the destruction of Gog, the people of Israel will burn the weapons of war that have been scattered on the battle field:

                          “Then those who live in the towns of Israel will go out and use the weapons for fuel and burn them up—the small and large shields, the bows and arrows, the war clubs and spears. For seven years they will use them for fuel. They will not need to gather wood from the fields or cut it from the forests, because they will use the weapons for fuel. And they will plunder those who plundered them and loot those who looted them”, declares the Sovereign Lord. —Ezekiel 39:9-10

                          Such an event of course — the burning of weapons — would not take place unless the world was a place where weapons were no longer needed and where enemies no longer existed. As such, this passage is also highly reminiscent of the Prophet Micah’s descriptions of the Millennium:

                          “He will judge between many peoples and will settle disputes for strong nations far and wide. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore. —Micah 4:3

                          It seems very far fetched that an Israel who has just survived one of the largest invasions in their history (if not THE largest) would immediately begin disposing of all the weapons by burning them unless there was a very compelling reason to believe them to be no longer needed, such as Christ being present on his throne in Jerusalem to protect them. In the aftermath of such an invasion occurring prior In such circumstances, wouldn’t Israel be far more likely to stockpile the weapons for their own future use? to the Tribulation it is difficult (if not impossible) to imagine Israel simply destroying such a cache of weapons when they could very reasonably expect to need them for their own use against further aggression in the light of such events.

                          A Great Earthquake

                          Another similarity between the destruction of Gog and the Antichrist is that in both cases, at the time of their destruction there is a great earthquake that occurs. This is seen in several prophetic passages. The description in Ezekiel is quite extreme:

                          “In my zeal and fiery wrath I declare that at that time there shall be a great earthquake in the land of Israel. The fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, the beasts of the field, every creature that moves along the ground, and all the people on the face of the earth will tremble at my presence. The mountains will be overturned, the cliffs will crumble and every wall will fall to the ground. — Ezekiel 38:19-20

                          In a very similar fashion, the Book for Revelation also describes a great earthquake as the armies of Antichrist are gathered together in and against Israel:

                          “Then there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake. No earthquake like it has ever occurred since the human race has been on earth, so tremendous was the quake. The great city split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. God remembered Babylon the Great and gave her the cup filled with the wine of the fury of his wrath. Every island fled away and the mountains could not be found. —Revelation 16:18-20

                          The original Hebrew word that is translated as “earthquake” at the beginning of the Ezekial quote is “raash”. Then when we are told that the people “tremble”, it is the same Hebrew word, “raash”. It is clear from this that people are not merely “trembling” out of fear as is sometimes argued, but that they are “trembling” in the midst of a great “trembling” or earthquake.
                          ----------------------------------------------
                          When the plain sense of Scripture make sense, seek no other sense.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Gog/Magog Explained - Part Two of Two

                            Note these important details in the Ezekiel quote: Every creature on earth, including ALL humans on earth shake at the presence of God. Then after all things on earth shake the mountains are thrown down and every wall falls down. It is impossible to find other places in Scripture where the mountains are thrown down. Those who would argue that these are not the same event must demonstrate where the destruction of the mountains occurs prior to the end of the Tribulation anywhere in Scripture. It is true that the Ezekiel passage specifies that there will be an earthquake in Israel, but it seems quite likely that, although this earthquake could very possibly start in Israel, it would certainly expand beyond the boundaries of that tiny nation. It seems quite impossible for an earthquake that knocks over mountains and cliffs to be restricted solely to Israel. In fact, Ezekiel even specifies that “the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, the beasts of the field, every creature that moves along the ground, and all the people on the face of the earth” are in this earthquake. Clearly it cannot be restricted to only Israel but rather, the entire planet is affected by this event.

                            Beyond a great earthquake, there is also the similarity of great hailstones that are said to rain on the armies of both Gog and the Antichrist:

                            “I will execute judgment on him with plague and bloodshed; I will pour down torrents of rain, hailstones and burning sulfur on him and on his troops and on the many nations with him.” — Ezekiel 38:22

                            “From the sky huge hailstones, each weighing about a hundred pounds, fell on people. And they cursed God on account of the plague of hail, because the plague was so terrible.” —Revelation 16:21

                            So the descriptions concerning the destruction of Gog and the destruction of Antichrist are so similar that it is difficult for anyone to ignore. However, there is no doubt that despite this evidence, some will still have some arguments that they must still be separate individuals. So before we move on, let’s address some of these arguments against identifying Gog with the Antichrist.

                            Arguments Against Gog as the Antichrist

                            There are two common arguments used against the idea that Gog and Antichrist are the same person. The first argument is that Gog cannot be Antichrist because Gog is killed by Christ, while the Antichrist is not killed but rather is thrown alive into the lake of fire. The two passages cited are the following:

                            On that day I will give Gog a burial place in Israel, in the valley of those who travel east of the Sea. It will block the way of travelers, because Gog and all his hordes will be buried there.” – Ezekiel 39:11

                            “But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.” —Revelation 19:20

                            However at two other places in Scripture we read that the Antichrist will indeed be physically killed:

                            “And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.” — 2 Thessalonians 2:8

                            “Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire. — Daniel 7:11

                            All your pomp has been brought down to the grave, along with the noise of your harps; maggots are spread out beneath you and worms cover you.” – Isaiah 14:11

                            You are cast out of your tomb like a rejected branch; you are covered with the slain, with those pierced by the sword, those who descend to the stones of the pit, like a corpse trampled underfoot.” – Isaiah 14:19

                            Apparently, the Antichrist will be physically killed by Jesus. The description of the Antichrist and the False Prophet being thrown “alive” into hell is a description of the final judgment against the Antichrist after this. The point of Revelation 19:20 is that the Antichrist and the False Prophet are not even permitted the “luxury” of the Great White Throne judgment. Their evil is apparently so pronounced that they go straight to the Lake of Fire, do not pass Go, do not collect $200.

                            Notice Isaiah 14’s description of the final condition of the Antichrist: “Maggots are spread out beneath you and worms cover you.” Does that not sound like a decaying corpse? However, some will point out that Jesus described Hell as a place where “the worm never dies”, so Isaiah 14:19 clarifies it even further for us: “You are cast out of your tomb like a rejected branch; you are covered with the slain, with those pierced by the sword.” How could this man be “cast out of his tomb” and “covered with the slain” unless there is a body present for these things to happen to?

                            In addition, how exactly is one “cast alive” into the Lake of Fire? Wouldn’t a physical body be destroyed immediately? A physical body wouldn’t survive more than a few minutes of fire, not to mention eternity. Just because Nicolai Carpathia (the Antichrist of the “Left Behind” series) was physically put “alive” into the Lake of Fire doesn’t mean that’s how it will actually happen. That was only Tim LaHayes’ and Jerry Jenkins’ opinion. Rather, it seems that the intent is that this man’s evil will be so pronounced that he won’t even be given the chance of facing the Great White Throne judgment. Some would even argue that he really was alive once before, actually died (and went to “hell” on that occasion) and has consequently no option left but to go straight to the Lake of Fire. This would go along with the often-suggested theory that the Antichrist will be killed and come back to life as is described in Revelation chapters 13 and 17.

                            The second argument against Gog as Antichrist is based on the description of the invasion and the seemingly immediate and complete defeat of Gog and his army. Those in opposition to the notion that Gog is the Antichrist will usually argue that the description of Gog in Ezekiel 38-39 cannot be speaking of the Antichrist and his armies because a cursory reading of this passage appears to present us with the image of a supernaturally foiled attack that never really accomplishes its objectives. Because the Antichrist and his forces will occupy Israel for some time, the descriptions that we read in Ezekiel, it is argued, cannot be describing the Antichrist invasion, because the invasion of Ezekiel 38-39 appears to be stopped dead in its tracks. To address this argument, let us consider the following passage. Most will be fully familiar with it:

                            “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David’s throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the LORD Almighty will accomplish this.” — Isaiah 9:6-7

                            After reading this famous passage, let us try to imagine ourselves as a devout 1st century Jew. We read about the coming of the Messiah: “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given.” If we were to read this passage in as natural a manner as possible, what would our conclusions be? What would we expect from this child? The passage certainly seems clear: He will immediately assume the leadership role as the King over the Jewish nation and people. In fact, of the increase of his government there will be no end. However, the Christian reader will read this passage and quite casually explain that there is a gap in this passage. There is what is sometimes called a telescoping, where an extended period of time is described in a condensed fashion. But are any real indicators within the Isaiah passage that would indicate this? There are not. So while the Christian has no problem seeing in this passage a two thousand year gap despite the lack of any indicators of such, somehow many cannot see that a gap of merely months or only a few years could be present in Ezekiel 38 and 39. In Ezekiel 38 and 39, what we have is a specific snapshot of the invasion and eventual destruction of the Antichrist and his armies. Other snapshots are presented elsewhere in Scripture. Because the limited and temporary successes of the Antichrist are not mentioned in this passage, this in no way disqualifies this passage as referring to the same invasion that we read about in the books of Daniel, Revelation, or Zechariah, all of which pertain to the Antichrist.

                            It could also be suggested that the Ezekiel prophecy requires the earthquake to take place immediately. This would be based on Ezekiel 38:19 – “In my zeal and fiery wrath I declare that at that time there shall be a great earthquake in the land of Israel.” The Hebrew word “yowm”, that is here translated as “time”, can also be translated as “age” or “season” among other possibilities. So the possibility is left open by the original Hebrew that there could be a gap of time between the invasion and the resultant judgment.

                            Rosh?

                            Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshek and Tubal; prophesy against him…” — Ezekiel 38:2

                            Some Bible translations differ on how to interpret the portion of this verse that says, “the chief prince of.” In the original Hebrew, the word translated in the above example as “chief prince” is “rosh.” While “rosh” probably means “prince,” or “head,” some argue that it should be treated as a proper noun, “Rosh”, referring to the name of a place.

                            Well-known American prophecy teacher Mark Hitchcock has examined this issue in his book Iran: The Coming Crisis. There Hitchcock accurately points out that the Septuagint—a first century B.C. Greek translation of the Old Testament—as well as Wilhelm Gesenius, one of the most respected Hebrew scholars of modern times, have both chosen to translate this word “Rosh” as a proper noun. This is indeed enough to give one cause to consider the possibility. However, it is the conclusion of those who choose this translation that need to be challenged. Those who feel as though Rosh is a place, most often use this word to find Russia here as one of the invading nations. This opinion is also supported by the fact that Ezekiel specifically says that Gog would come from the “far north”. And indeed, Russia is perfectly north of Israel. Nevertheless, there are some serious problems with including modern Russia in Ezekiel’s grouping of nations. While Hitchcock points out that there are various mentions of a people whose name bears similarities to Rosh found in many ancient sources, there is actually almost no real knowledge as to specifically where these people may have lived in Ezekiel’s day. The only real information that Hitchcock provides is summed up in the following fairly vague statement: “when Ezekiel wrote his prophecy, several bands of the Rosh people lived in an area to the north of the Black Sea.” However, according to Bible scholar James D. Price, in an article in the Grace Theological Journal, Rosh “was a well-known land in antiquity on the banks of the Tigris river, bordering on ElamIran. (James D. Price, “Rosh: An Ancient Land Known to Ezekiel,” Grace Theological Journal, Vol. 6, No. 1, 1985, p. 69.) and Ellipi,” in the far western part of modern

                            So let’s assume that this is true—namely that several “bands” of people known by the name of “Rosh” did live in either the far western portion of Iran or in “an area to the north of the Black Sea”. What does this leave us with? The approach that we are taking here—and which Hitchcock claims to take as well—is that these ancient names provide us only with geographic locations. We then may look at the regions mentioned and include these in the list of regions that will be part of the coming Antichrist Empire. However, what we reject—and again what Hitchcock claims to reject as well—is that we should find in these names particular bloodlines and ethnicities and trace them to their modern day ancestors. You can imagine how difficult this would quickly become. So even if we agreed that Rosh were referring to “an area to the north of the Black Sea”, we are at best left with a very small portion of Russia (roughly 5%) extending from Dagestan and GeorgiaChechnya and northeast to the Ukraine. There may be some credence to this notion in that these portions of Russia are predominantly Muslim. Nevertheless, to use such a small source of information to include all the other 95% of Russia here is to drastically exaggerate the findings. through

                            Admittedly, in light of several political developments such as various military and nuclear agreements that have recently taken place between Russia and Iran, this may be very tempting to do. However, this approach is not only inconsistent, but may also even be irresponsible. Either one uses Ezekiel’s prophecies to lead one to modern regions, or one uses Ezekiel’s prophecies to lead to ethnic peoples, but one cannot simply switch from one approach to the other as it suits one’s particular slant on prophecy to fit today’s newspaper headlines.

                            Now, having examined the reasons to consider Rosh as a proper name, let us now also consider the reasons not to see Rosh as proper name: The Hebrew word “rosh” is used nearly six hundred other times in the Bible and is each time interpreted as meaning “head, chief, top, best” or something similar. Why then of the nearly six hundred times in the Bible would we make only one exception and translate it here as a proper noun? This really makes little sense. The “Rosh” here in Ezekiel is actually the same “Rosh” that we find in the name “Rosh Hashanah” – “The chief day of the year” - the Jewish New Year. Also, consider this: of the eight nations mentioned, all except one are grandsons of Noah and are mentioned in what is known as “the Table of Nations” in Genesis 10. The other nation is Persia. Persia however was a very well known nation in Ezekiel’s day. It was the head of the fast-growing Medo-Persian Empire that later ruled the entire Middle East, including Babylon where Ezekiel lived at the time he wrote his book. Now juxtapose this to Russia, which didn’t even exist in Ezekiel’s day and wouldn’t for several more centuries. To simply attempt to toss “Rosh” into the list here—an alleged name that is neither a descendant of Noah nor a well-known nation of that day certainly seems out of place. As Bible scholar Dr. Merrill F. Unger admits, “Linguistic evidence for the equation [of Rosh with Russia] is confessedly only presumptive.” During the cold war, of course, this opinion was a popular one. The reasoning of many was that because Russia was the “head” of the atheistic Soviet Union, surely such an anti-God empire was the fulfillment of Bible prophecy. But we must be very careful not to read our assumptions or modern events into Scripture. We must allow Scripture to speak for itself. Unfortunately, many Bible teachers still seem to cling to this interpretation. The notion that Russia is specifically mentioned here in Ezekiel seems to be doubtful and again, even if true, leads us not to Russia but only to a relatively small southern portion of Russia which today is predominately Islamic.
                            ----------------------------------------------
                            When the plain sense of Scripture make sense, seek no other sense.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by markedward View Post
                              Daniel 9:27 doesn't explicitly mention a villainous antichrist. If you notice, Daniel 9:24-27 introduces us to a figure called "Messiah, the Prince" (or "the ruler" or something similar, depending on your translation). Daniel 9:27 speaks of its prince with the definitive article "the" - which "the prince" is this, other than the one already mentioned, "Messiah, the Prince"? Besides, Daniel 9:27 doesn't mention anything about the land of Israel in relation to the covenant being made.

                              This is a drastic understatement of what is going on between the Jews and Gentiles in these verses. This isn't a happy relationship. The Jews aren't "sharing" with the Gentiles - the Gentiles are stomping on Jerusalem. Compare one of Jesus' prophecies with what is being said in the Revelation:

                              Jesus: "They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled."

                              The Revelation: "But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months."

                              There is no "sharing" going on here, it's an oppression of the Gentiles upon the city of Jerusalem.

                              Neither of these verses says anything about a new temple being built. 2 Thessalonians was irrefutably written during the time of the Second Temple of Jerusalem, and there is considerably strong evidence to show that the Revelation was written during that time period as well. As such, since neither author mentions a new temple being built, and they both wrote during the time period of the second temple, and neither goes out of their way to identify "which number of temple this is," then the simplest explanation is that they were each referring to the very temple that was still standing at that time.

                              Why is this such a huge deal?

                              A national ID card? Oh no! The government knows who I am! Sorry for the sarcasm, but they ALREADY know who we are. They were the ones who assigned us our social security numbers. We've already got things exactly the same, namely Driver's Licenses, SSNs, etc. The Real ID card isn't unique.

                              Where's Russia in this text?

                              Moscow's etymology is not known. This is purely speculative based on the sole fact that Meshech and Moscow vaguely sound the same. Moscow was named after the Moskva River. The Moskva River's name, though not known with 100% certainty, is widely considered to be derived from some sort of Finno-Permic word for "water" (possibly meaning "cow river" or "bear river" or even "dark water"). Meshech, on the other hand, is derived from a Hebrew word meaning "to draw [out], to seize, to proceed, etc." There's no real relation between the two words.
                              You kid around with the Real ID act.. but when it comes of course you are going to have it..because your probably don't think its that bad... well ok and the Real ID the forerunner of the Mark of the Beast, plain and simple.. if you think ONE card has all your information on it.. and they are going use the mark of the beast (chip in the right hand or the forehead) later on because they will think its necessary for security and it would be faster and easier to them... It isn't unique? I know we have drivers license, social security numbers, credit cards... What is unique about this card is that we all have to get one in order to buy or sell... and you think its not unique? Does it not sound like a forerunner of the Mark of the Beast?

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X