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  • Partial-Preterist/Amillennial/Postmillennial VS Futurist/Post-Trib/Premillenial

    When I was truly saved and baptized in the Spirit 13 years ago, I emerged from a pre-salvation ministry and church life indoctrination of hardline Pre-Trib/Pre-Mil Futurism (and from being a Dispensationalist OSAS Arminian-turned-Amyraldist).

    Since then, I've been torn between the Post-Trib/Pre-Mil Futurist view and an Amillennial/Post-Mil Partial-Preterist view. The dilemna comes primarily from unsurety about the date of John's writings.

    Though I'm sure this has been previously discussed ad nauseum in some manner, I'd like to hear input regarding the earlier/later dating of John's writings and how it affects these views. The writing dates seem to be a key to minimizing one or the other.

  • #2
    Re: Partial-Preterist/Amillennial/Postmillennial VS Futurist/Post-Trib/Premillenial

    If I remember correctly, Markedward had a pretty detailed analysis floating around here at some point.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Partial-Preterist/Amillennial/Postmillennial VS Futurist/Post-Trib/Premillenial

      Originally posted by RabbiKnife View Post
      If I remember correctly, Markedward had a pretty detailed analysis floating around here at some point.
      Your personal insight would be helpful, too. I may be a bit sideways, but Full-Preterism and Pre-Trib/Pre-Mil Futurism represent the defining brackets at each "end". Everything else is a view of relative degree of prophecy fulfillment and determination of literal versus figurative events, people, times, etc.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Partial-Preterist/Amillennial/Postmillennial VS Futurist/Post-Trib/Premillenial

        Here are related posts on the subject. The first two cover some of the same material, but not entirely.

        http://bibleforums.org/showthread.ph...81#post2044481
        http://bibleforums.org/showthread.ph...60#post2443560
        http://bibleforums.org/showthread.ph...49#post2452849
        http://bibleforums.org/showthread.ph...26#post2453026
        http://bibleforums.org/showthread.ph...47#post2453447
        http://bibleforums.org/showthread.ph...29#post2455229
        http://bibleforums.org/showthread.ph...47#post2448747

        Any other questions you have on the subject I'm open to answering here.
        To This Day

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Partial-Preterist/Amillennial/Postmillennial VS Futurist/Post-Trib/Premillenial

          Many much thanks! I'll exhaustively read each of these. Going in, is my initial perception reasonably correct that the date of John's writings are a significant factor?

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          • #6
            Re: Partial-Preterist/Amillennial/Postmillennial VS Futurist/Post-Trib/Premillenial

            Originally posted by PneumaPsucheSoma View Post
            Your personal insight would be helpful, too. I may be a bit sideways, but Full-Preterism and Pre-Trib/Pre-Mil Futurism represent the defining brackets at each "end". Everything else is a view of relative degree of prophecy fulfillment and determination of literal versus figurative events, people, times, etc.
            A became a pan-millenialist years ago.

            Jesus is coming back.
            Eternity will be cool.
            When either happens should and does have absolutely no impact on my life now.
            Other than that, I really don't care.

            From a biblical exegesis position, I find significant problem with pretrib/dispensationalism, even though that is how I was originally taught and I was a rabid believer.

            I find that Jesus expected the generation he was talking to in the Olivet Discourse to understand exactly what he was talking about, and I find that when John wrote the Revelation, he fully intended for his audience to understand exactly what he was talking about.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Partial-Preterist/Amillennial/Postmillennial VS Futurist/Post-Trib/Premillenial

              Originally posted by PneumaPsucheSoma
              Going in, is my initial perception reasonably correct that the date of John's writings are a significant factor?
              Correct; if the Revelation was written "late" (circa 95 AD), this almost entirely rules out preterism. If the Revelation was written "early" (circa 64-68 AD), this almost entirely favors preterism.
              To This Day

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Partial-Preterist/Amillennial/Postmillennial VS Futurist/Post-Trib/Premillenial

                Originally posted by markedward View Post
                Correct; if the Revelation was written "late" (circa 95 AD), this almost entirely rules out preterism. If the Revelation was written "early" (circa 64-68 AD), this almost entirely favors preterism.
                I agree with the first assertion, but not with the second. Preterism requires that the book have been written before 70 AD, but if it was written before 70 AD that just means that preterism could be correct, but doesn't make it any more likely to be correct than any other view. The date the book was written is a much bigger deal for preterism than any other eschatological view because no one else's view hinges on when the book was written.

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                • #9
                  Re: Partial-Preterist/Amillennial/Postmillennial VS Futurist/Post-Trib/Premillenial

                  Originally posted by RabbiKnife View Post
                  A became a pan-millenialist years ago.

                  Jesus is coming back.
                  Eternity will be cool.
                  When either happens should and does have absolutely no impact on my life now.
                  Other than that, I really don't care.
                  I understand and agree. From a practical everyday-life perspective, it has little bearing. I just have an unction to be well able to understand an overview and cross-section of the legitimate variable views interpreted from Scripture. I feel my 80% effort regarding eschatology is insufficient stewardship in ways.

                  From a biblical exegesis position, I find significant problem with pretrib/dispensationalism, even though that is how I was originally taught and I was a rabid believer.
                  I relate and vehemently agree. Pre-trib/Disp was part of what obscured the true Gospel for me.

                  I find that Jesus expected the generation he was talking to in the Olivet Discourse to understand exactly what he was talking about, and I find that when John wrote the Revelation, he fully intended for his audience to understand exactly what he was talking about.
                  I'm tracking on that.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Partial-Preterist/Amillennial/Postmillennial VS Futurist/Post-Trib/Premillenial

                    Here is a blog that asks the same question. The comments make good reading too.
                    "Your name and renown
                    is the desire of our hearts."
                    (Isaiah 26:8)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Partial-Preterist/Amillennial/Postmillennial VS Futurist/Post-Trib/Premillenial

                      No offense to the blogger, but his post is barely helpful to the issue. All he manages to do is bring up the fact that there is a disagreement on when the book is written and claim that the early date is wrong, with unqualified and unsupported statements that preterists aren't being "objective", that they require "awkward" and "farfetched" interpretations, and that the school of thought has "holes". He never specifies how preterists aren't "objective" (examining the internal indicators isn't objective?), or how they're "awkward" (from his own perspective, but entirely consistent within preterism), or even what the "holes" are (I, of course, can't think of what any of these "holes" would be; I don't mean to sound arrogant, but I've studied the matter for years and covered essentially every angle or question to be thought of, and I found nothing to be unanswerable). He tops it off by claiming preterists "force" their opinion to work by unobjectively looking at the evidence (again without any examples). Did he ever think that people came to the preterist "system" because they were studying Scripture objectively? No, no, that can't be right.

                      I could easily turn this around and point out certain nuances within the Revelation that emphatically bolster preterism. And in questioning other schools of thought on these nuances only shows the "holes" in their interpretive methods... but I don't claim they're being "awkward" or "farfetched" if they're at least being internally consistent.
                      To This Day

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Partial-Preterist/Amillennial/Postmillennial VS Futurist/Post-Trib/Premillenial

                        I assume he's referring to Kim Riddlebargers new book, The Man of Sin.

                        It claims to be a response to the likes of La Haye on one side and Hanegraaff on the other. I guess I should get his book myself. Has anyone here read up on Dr. Riddlebarger?
                        "Your name and renown
                        is the desire of our hearts."
                        (Isaiah 26:8)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Partial-Preterist/Amillennial/Postmillennial VS Futurist/Post-Trib/Premillenial

                          Originally posted by John146 View Post
                          I agree with the first assertion, but not with the second. Preterism requires that the book have been written before 70 AD, but if it was written before 70 AD that just means that preterism could be correct, but doesn't make it any more likely to be correct than any other view. The date the book was written is a much bigger deal for preterism than any other eschatological view because no one else's view hinges on when the book was written.
                          When I was pre-trib rapture they fought tooth and nail for the later dating of Revelations..their view point does depend on it. Many views do actually..

                          God Bless
                          "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Partial-Preterist/Amillennial/Postmillennial VS Futurist/Post-Trib/Premillenial

                            I find that Jesus expected the generation he was talking to in the Olivet Discourse to understand exactly what he was talking about, and I find that when John wrote the Revelation, he fully intended for his audience to understand exactly what he was talking about.
                            Originally posted by PneumaPsucheSoma View Post
                            I'm tracking on that.
                            Be careful not to limit Christ's words "this generation" to those living at the time of Christ. This is one of the errors read into preterism. Chirst is not saying those living then would be alive when all things have been fulfilled. He is telling them this "age/nation/time" will not pass until all things are fulfilled. "This age/nation/time" distinguished from the "age" to come (eternity) when all things have been fulfilled. The preterists MUST read this as that specific "generation" of people living in the first century AD to fit their theology. But a natural reading of all that must be fulfilled quickly shows that much of what Christ says must happen has not yet happened, and certainly did not happen in 70 AD.

                            Mt*24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

                            1074. genea - from (a presumed derivative of) 1085; a generation; by implication, an age (the period or the persons):--age, generation, nation, time.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Partial-Preterist/Amillennial/Postmillennial VS Futurist/Post-Trib/Premillenial

                              Christ's consistent usage of the term genea in the gospels is exclusively limited to his contemporary generation.

                              Otherwise, his response makes no sense to the question he was being asked. "When does (blank) happen?" "Oh, before the next age." "Okay... when's that?" No. Not only is that a nonsense answer, but it's entirely inconsistent with how the term genea is used in the gospels.
                              To This Day

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