Discussion Post-trib 'rapture'

[redskittle]

Referring to Matthew 24:29

Has anyone noticed that the bible says "immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days", not 'before':

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"

I'm sure someone has noticed it. I've heard a lot of people say, like in the Left Behind series, that the people will be 'raptured' up, THEN the tribulation days come. I personally believe, because of this verse in the bible, that we all will suffer tribulation before there is any rapture, if there even will be a rapture.

So what do you guys think? Share some verses with me about this. I'd like to learn as much as I can.

Thank you.

[ServantoftheKing]

Cross reference the verse with 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17. In that passage you see the elect (both the dead in Christ and those who are still alive) being gathered to meet the Lord in the clouds at the sounding of a trumpet.

Matthew 24:29-31 talks about the Son of Man coming on the clouds with power and great glory, and the elect being gathered at the sounding of a trumpet.

I believe it's the same event being described, and as you mentioned already, Matthew 24:29 says this happens after the tribulation.

ServantoftheKing

[IPet2_9]

Has anyone noticed that the bible says "immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days", not 'before':

Yup.

Those people who are pre-trib and have their own understanding of this verse, I can respect that. But like you said, I wonder how many "mainstream" pre-tribs have really dug into the Bible like that; or if they just go along with their church on this.

[carboy]

Yes, many have noticed. I like the absence of trumpet and bowl judgements in Matt. 24. Gods protection over the saints during this, like His protection of the Jews in Egypt, or the taking out of the saints before certain events, a "sometime during" approach to the rapture. "After the tribulation of THOSE days" with more days to follow. Anyway the more I read the less I sit with a pre-trib mind.

[vinsight4u8]

Let the sun darkened part of Matthew that comes after the tribulation be the time of the sun becomes black in the 6th seal.

4th seal - man of sin
5th seal - great tribulation
all rest till all come in killed that are to be slain as martyrs
6th seal - end of tribulation sign
sun black

heaven departs
- see Job 14:12,14

wicked men hide in the rocks
-see Isaiah 2:10-21
the day of the LORD starts

The church will be raptured in the 6th seal.

Then look at the 7th seal time of silence.
-see Isaiah 18:3-5
- Isaiah 62:1-4
-Isaiah 65:6
-Psalm 50

Jerusalem must be freed and can never be made desolate again once God keeps silence, takes His rest.

Let Rev. 7 be a give more info to us chapter.
a chapter - to go into greater depth as to the most important section of the seals
seals 4-6

Just before the 4th seal rider begins his ride - the 144,000 of Israel will be sealed for protection - protected to survive the trib time and clear past Armageddon to restart Israel back in her land.

The trumpets do not sound in Rev. 8 - for there is only the trumpet story.
The angels that were once seen with trumpets.

[IPet2_9]

Jerusalem must be freed and can never be made desolate again once God keeps silence, takes His rest.

My belief is that Jerusalem gets freed by a 10-megaton nuclear missile. Not until New Jerusalem comes is it never made desolate again.

[MyGod]

Referring to Matthew 24:29

Has anyone noticed that the bible says "immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days", not 'before':

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"

I'm sure someone has noticed it. I've heard a lot of people say, like in the Left Behind series, that the people will be 'raptured' up, THEN the tribulation days come. I personally believe, because of this verse in the bible, that we all will suffer tribulation before there is any rapture, if there even will be a rapture.

So what do you guys think? Share some verses with me about this. I'd like to learn as much as I can.

Thank you.

The way I understand scripture, the tribulation starts immediately after we are caught up. No one knows how long the tribulation will last. The great tribulation lasts 7 years. When the scripture talks about "immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give light. . . " this happens after the 6th seal is opened in Rev 6:12. The elect mentioned in Matt 24:29 is Israel, not members of the Body of Christ. The scripture matt 24:13 talking about "he that endure to the end the same shall be saved," is talking about Israel, not members of the Body of Christ. Our salvation solely rests on the Lord Jesus' Christ death, burial, and resurrection and our belief in that. We don't have to endure to the end. I Thess 5:9 says that God has not appointed us to wrath. So, I know I will not be here thru the tribulation period or the great tribulation.

[BroRog]

Since the Tribulation is over, I'd say the rapture is definitely post trib.

[Richard H]

Since the Tribulation is over, I'd say the rapture is definitely post trib.

When was that?

Have I gotten left behind again?


Actually - not to this point - but to pre-tribbers:
Those who are alive and remain will NOT preceed the dead in Christ. (1 Thes 4:13-18)
Don't expect to be raptured before the resurrection.

[yoSAMite]

Referring to Matthew 24:29

Has anyone noticed that the bible says "immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days", not 'before':

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"

I'm sure someone has noticed it. I've heard a lot of people say, like in the Left Behind series, that the people will be 'raptured' up, THEN the tribulation days come. I personally believe, because of this verse in the bible, that we all will suffer tribulation before there is any rapture, if there even will be a rapture.

So what do you guys think? Share some verses with me about this. I'd like to learn as much as I can.

Thank you.

I think I'd be safe to say that the pre-trib view is that the rapture and the second coming are 2 different events. We believe that Matthew refers to the second coming, not the rapture.

[Richard H]

Don't expect to be raptured before the resurrection.

The FIRST resurrection - that is.

[BroRog]

I think I'd be safe to say that the pre-trib view is that the rapture and the second coming are 2 different events. We believe that Matthew refers to the second coming, not the rapture.

I understand your position. It's hard to get past the fact, though, that Jesus' description of his second coming sounds a lot like Paul's description of the rapture. I mean it appears to use the same imagery.

Have you given this much thought? What do you think about it?

[BroRog]

When was that?

Have I gotten left behind again?


Actually - not to this point - but to pre-tribbers:
Those who are alive and remain will NOT preceed the dead in Christ. (1 Thes 4:13-18)
Don't expect to be raptured before the resurrection.

Many Christians have been taught to associate the term "Great Tribulation" with the Trumpet and Vial judgments listed in the Book of Revelation. In my view, the GT is a different thing altogether. When I say the GT is over, I'm not also saying, at the same time, that the Vial judgments are over or that the rapture is about to take place.

Here is how I picture it. The GT is just another way to describe the exile of the Jews from Palestine. The term "great" differentiates this exile from the previous exile in Babylon. Now that the Jews are back in Palestine, living together as a nation again, the exile period is over.

[Literalist-Luke]

Referring to Matthew 24:29

Has anyone noticed that the bible says "immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days", not 'before':

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"

I'm sure someone has noticed it. I've heard a lot of people say, like in the Left Behind series, that the people will be 'raptured' up, THEN the tribulation days come. I personally believe, because of this verse in the bible, that we all will suffer tribulation before there is any rapture, if there even will be a rapture.

I'm with ya all the way.

[Just a Door Keeper]

Notice in 2 Thess. 2:1-3 we are told that the gathering and the day of Christ, ie, His coming will not take place until there is a falling away, an apostacy, and the man of sin is revealed. The gathering can't take place first, it is after the antichrist is revealed. Continue reading in the chapter and you will read of the revealing of the antichrist.
Mat.24 and 1 Thess. 4 both tell of - The Lord Jesus coming in the clouds
- angels
- the sound of a trumpet
- the gathering of believers
It's the same event!

So how many times do you think the Lord Jesus will come in the clouds with a trumpet etc and gather believers?
When the Lord was asked when He would come back He gave a detailed answer which is in Mat. 24.
Also notice that Mat.24:31 (which is the same event as 1 Thess.) occurs after the abomination of desolatiion and the great tribulation, both which begin in the middle of the 70th week of Daniel. There is no pre trib rapture, the rapture is after the antichrist is revealed, after the tribulation of those days.
Marvin Rosenthal wrote a good book on these things, it is worthwhile reading it. (comparing all with your Bible of course.) The book is called The Pre-Wrath Rapture.

Study the Day of the LORD, the Day of Christ, The Day of God and you will see that it begins with stars falling, sun turned to darkness etc. That happens AFTER the great trib, at least that's what the Lord Jesus says in Mat. 24.
The Day of the Lord is not the whole 7 years but only a small portion somewhere in the second half of the 7 years.
Read 2 Thess. 2:1-3 very carefully, note that we are warned, "let no man deceive you by any means for (that day shall not come) except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition."

But whatever your take on it let's be sure not to let the old nature get us biting and devouring, but rather let grace rule.