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  • Christ's Reign

    Maybe someone can help me out here.

    I'm trying to figure out how Revelations 11:15, Revelations 22:5, don't contradict 1 Corinthians 15:20-28.

    Revelations 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

    Revelations 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

    1 Corinthians 15:
    23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
    24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
    25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
    26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
    27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
    28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

    The verses in Revelations say Christ will reign forever and ever, but verse 25 of 1 Corinthians implies Christ's reign will end.




    Any thoughts?

    Legoman

  • #2
    Originally posted by legoman View Post
    Maybe someone can help me out here.

    I'm trying to figure out how Revelations 11:15, Revelations 22:5, don't contradict 1 Corinthians 15:20-28.

    Revelations 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

    Revelations 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

    1 Corinthians 15:
    23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
    24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
    25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
    26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
    27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
    28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

    The verses in Revelations say Christ will reign forever and ever, but verse 25 of 1 Corinthians implies Christ's reign will end.




    Any thoughts?

    Legoman
    Christ reigns now over His kingdom, which is not of this world (John 18:36). At His coming, He will deliver the kingdom to the Father and then they will reign together forever.

    Rev 22
    3And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
    4And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
    5And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by John146 View Post
      Christ reigns now over His kingdom, which is not of this world (John 18:36). At His coming, He will deliver the kingdom to the Father and then they will reign together forever.

      Rev 22
      3And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
      4And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
      5And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
      Greetings Eric,

      This is something so many fail to realize...Christ is reigning NOW and believers are reigning with Him. It is not a physical reign over a physical kingdom, but a spiritual reign over His spiritual kingdom. When we are raised to spiritual life; i.e. born again, our reign with Christ begans. This reign is likened to 1000 years and symbolizes the fullness of time. So, Christ and all who are or will be saved reign spiritually with Christ in time NOW, and in the fullness of time; i.e. the end of 1000 years, we will reign with Christ in His eternal kingdom outside of time or throughout eternity.

      Excellent response Eric.

      Blessings,
      RW

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks for the replies so far.

        Good point about Christ reigning now, but I believe 1 Corinthians 15:22-28 is talking about Christ's reign after the resurrection.

        RogerW, a question for you: Are you saying there is no true millenium after the resurrection, but the millenium represents Christ's spiritual reign right now? That maybe what is tripping me up. I always understood that there would be a millenium (either a literal 1000 years or just a long period of time) when we would reign with Christ after the resurrection.

        Anyway I'm trying to figure out the timeline between 1 Corinth 15 and Revelations. Here is what I believe is the timeline:

        1 Corinthing 15:23 This corresponds to the resurrection.
        ....
        then the millenium would happen
        ....
        then the GWT judgement and the lake of fire - I'm a bit fuzzy on the order here. This would correspond to verses 24-26 of 1 Corinth 15. Verse 26 (the last enemy destroyed is death) corresponds to death being thrown into the lake of fire in Rev 20:14.
        ...
        Then Christ's reign would come to an end verses 25-28, ultimately with everything (including Christ himself) being put under God.


        This is why I raised the original post. Revelations talks about reigning forever and ever. John, I agree John Rev 22:5 says "they" ie. God and Jesus - but then we have the problem of where Christ's reign "ends" (sometime in 1 Corinth 15:25-28) and he is ultimately put under God. I believe 1 Corinth 15:28 "God is all in all" is the final end of everything.

        Let me know if you think I am way off here.

        Legoman

        Comment


        • #5
          Why do you think Christ's reign will come to an end? The use of "until" in Scripture does not always mean that something will stop thereafter. It just means that Christ MUST reign because He is COMMITTED to putting ALL His enemies under His feet - and He MUST reign in order to do so - and once they are defeated - He keeps on reigning, as Rev 11:5 says!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by 9Marksfan View Post
            Why do you think Christ's reign will come to an end? The use of "until" in Scripture does not always mean that something will stop thereafter. It just means that Christ MUST reign because He is COMMITTED to putting ALL His enemies under His feet - and He MUST reign in order to do so - and once they are defeated - He keeps on reigning, as Rev 11:5 says!

            Good point.

            To me the use of "until" implies it ends, especially combined with the fact that Christ is put under God in verse 28. I suppose it could be interpreted that once God is "all in all", he is still reigining, which would include Christ and everything under God. Not sure.

            Anyway, what did you think of my timeline? Especially with respect to where the millenium & the corresponding verses between 1 corinth 15 and revelations?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by legoman View Post
              Good point.

              To me the use of "until" implies it ends, especially combined with the fact that Christ is put under God in verse 28. I suppose it could be interpreted that once God is "all in all", he is still reigining, which would include Christ and everything under God. Not sure.

              Anyway, what did you think of my timeline? Especially with respect to where the millenium & the corresponding verses between 1 corinth 15 and revelations?
              Sorry, I'm with RogerW here - amillennialist and becoming increasingly so as I see more and more dificulties that premills get into.

              Revelation is a picture book of symbolic language - the numbers themselves are symbolic - why should the 1000 years be singled out as literal when the other numbers and images are (correctly) viewed as symbolic?

              Can I suggest you get Kim Riddlebarger's book A Case For Amillennialism? Really excellent - down-to-earth (yet heavenly at the same time!) and very biblical.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by 9Marksfan View Post
                Sorry, I'm with RogerW here - amillennialist and becoming increasingly so as I see more and more dificulties that premills get into.

                Revelation is a picture book of symbolic language - the numbers themselves are symbolic - why should the 1000 years be singled out as literal when the other numbers and images are (correctly) viewed as symbolic?

                Can I suggest you get Kim Riddlebarger's book A Case For Amillennialism? Really excellent - down-to-earth (yet heavenly at the same time!) and very biblical.
                Ah ok - no problem. I guess my view is more the millenium will begin when Christ returns and the resurrection happens. Not sure if that is post or pre millenial. Though I don't necessarily believe it will be 1000 years either. That could be a symbol as you suggest. But I do think it will be a long "age".

                I will look into it further, and thanks for the book reference.

                Back to the OP, do you agree that the verses in 1 Corinthians 15 correspond to specific points in Revelations? ie. verse 26 "the last enemy destroyed is death" corresponds to death being thrown in the lake of fire in Rev 20:14?

                Comment


                • #9
                  I am having a hard time believing that the Devil is bound, and in the pit at the present time.


                  Rev 20:2-3
                  (2) And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
                  (3) And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
                  Last edited by livingword26; Sep 18th 2008, 01:09 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If we are going to believe that we are now in the 1000 year rein with Christ, then that means the first ressurection has already taken place, as well as Satan being bound

                    2 Tim 2:18
                    18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
                    KJV

                    Rev 20:4-7

                    4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

                    5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

                    6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

                    7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
                    KJV

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 9Marksfan View Post
                      Sorry, I'm with RogerW here - amillennialist and becoming increasingly so as I see more and more dificulties that premills get into.

                      Revelation is a picture book of symbolic language - the numbers themselves are symbolic - why should the 1000 years be singled out as literal when the other numbers and images are (correctly) viewed as symbolic?

                      Can I suggest you get Kim Riddlebarger's book A Case For Amillennialism? Really excellent - down-to-earth (yet heavenly at the same time!) and very biblical.
                      I don't believe that number is symbolic, nor is it being singled out. Here are some other numbers in Revelation

                      Rev 21:16-17
                      (16) And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
                      (17) And he measured the wall thereof, a hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.

                      Rev 19:4
                      (4) And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshiped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

                      Rev 7:4
                      (4) And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed a hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

                      Rev 9:16
                      (16) And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.

                      Rev 11:3
                      (3) And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

                      Rev 11:13
                      (13) And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

                      Thats just a small sampling. There are a lot of numbers in Revelation, and no reason to try to say the 1000 years is not literal, except to keep it from disproving a doctrine, that I can see.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        1Co 15:23-26
                        (23) But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
                        (24) Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
                        (25) For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
                        (26) The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.


                        I believe that this is referring to the riegn of Christ in heavenlies, while he destroys His enemies, then He hands the Kindom over to His Father. (But I could be wrong)

                        1Co 15:28

                        (28) And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then the Son also himself shall be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Moving thread to ETC.
                          Blessings,

                          Road Warrior


                          Proverbs 4:23
                          23 Guard your heart above all else,
                          for it determines the course of your life.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by legoman View Post
                            Ah ok - no problem. I guess my view is more the millenium will begin when Christ returns and the resurrection happens. Not sure if that is post or pre millenial.
                            Premillennial. But are you "Historic" or "Dispensational"?!?

                            Though I don't necessarily believe it will be 1000 years either. That could be a symbol as you suggest. But I do think it will be a long "age".
                            If it hasn't begun already, we do have a few theological problems about who runs the universe post-Christ's resurrection!

                            I will look into it further, and thanks for the book reference.
                            No problem. It's all the more interesting in that Riddlebarger started out as a Dispensationalist for many years.

                            Back to the OP, do you agree that the verses in 1 Corinthians 15 correspond to specific points in Revelations? ie. verse 26 "the last enemy destroyed is death" corresponds to death being thrown in the lake of fire in Rev 20:14?
                            Yes.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by livingword26 View Post
                              I am having a hard time believing that the Devil is bound, and in the pit at the present time.


                              Rev 20:2-3
                              (2) And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
                              (3) And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
                              How could anyone be freed from his grip (ie saved) unless he were bound? How keen is he to let his captives (us) go?

                              Comment

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