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  • sorry people i have alot of questions

    how do we know that there will be a rapture?the only thing i know is that there will be christians here when the beast system is in power.then GOD takes us out of here before the last battle between jesus and satan.i think...i'm not sure.please people i need an answer.i'm reading the bible now but i'm only in the third book(old testament)i guess i don't have the patience to find out myself thru reading.thanks people

  • #2
    One of the easiest ways I know to show the saints will go to heaven is in Rev. 19.
    V14 speaks of armies from heaven that come down.
    The attire on these armies shows that they are the V8 married saints.
    So some other time came and all the saints went to heaven.
    Where is the time?
    The first verse of this chapter refers us to "Salvation".
    Jesus is to appear at the time of salvation; per Hebrews 9:28 and 1 Thes. 5:9.

    So let the rapture happen at the start of Rev. 19 - then also shows us the great whore city that is now done corrupting the earth (the city of mystery, Babylon /Tyre in Lebanon) was punished.
    God avenged the blood she shed of the saints.

    "...hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand."
    REV. 19:2

    So - the great tribulation is over against the church, and then the saints get raptured to heaven. The marriage garments are given out. During this time in heaven - the vials have begun on earth (the vials of God's full amount His wrath plagues). At the time of Armageddon (which is the battle of taking down the beast in Rev. 19) the 6th vial is poured and the saints will return from heaven as armies. One of those saints armies must still be overcomers of the beast, so they will go fight him at the Rev 19 battle of Armageddon.
    The beast and the false prophet will get cast into the lake of fire and the Word of God rider (Jesus Christ) slays the remnant left in the battle.
    Satan is bound - and the saints (all having overcome the beast) now get to reign for 1000 years.
    Then Satan is loosed for a bit - and there is a final war with Him - where fire comes down out of heaven and devours.
    The devil then also goes into the lake of fire.
    The wicked dead get raised - shown their names on not found in the book of life (they were blotted out) and off to the lake they also go.
    The still living people will be judged too - and put into two groups - the sheep group and the goats bunch.
    The goats part will go to the lake of fire too.
    Jesus will bring a new heaven and a new earth - and righteousness in it.
    http://prophecyinsights.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by paradiseinn View Post
      how do we know that there will be a rapture?the only thing i know is that there will be christians here when the beast system is in power.then GOD takes us out of here before the last battle between jesus and satan.i think...i'm not sure.please people i need an answer.i'm reading the bible now but i'm only in the third book(old testament)i guess i don't have the patience to find out myself thru reading.thanks people
      The Rapture, which takes place in conjunction with the 2nd Coming, is described in detail in I Thessalonians 4 & 5.
      ----------------------------------------------
      When the plain sense of Scripture make sense, seek no other sense.

      Comment


      • #4
        thank you for your replies

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by paradiseinn View Post
          how do we know that there will be a rapture?the only thing i know is that there will be christians here when the beast system is in power.then GOD takes us out of here before the last battle between jesus and satan.i think...i'm not sure.please people i need an answer.i'm reading the bible now but i'm only in the third book(old testament)i guess i don't have the patience to find out myself thru reading.thanks people
          Do not stop reading the whole Bible to get the broad "picture"

          and to wait for His Son from Heaven (whom He raised from the dead), Jesus, who delivered us from the wrath to come.(1Th 1:10)[Rapture before the Great Tribulation]

          Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up [G726: catch away (rapture): plugged, pulled, take] together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the Lord. (1Th 4:17)

          my God; in Him I will trust (Psa 91:2).

          If you have not accepted Jesus Christ as your Savior, NOW is the time.

          Persevere, pray and be ready for the Return of Christ.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Roelof View Post
            Do not stop reading the whole Bible to get the broad "picture"

            and to wait for His Son from Heaven (whom He raised from the dead), Jesus, who delivered us from the wrath to come. (1Th 1:10) [Rapture before the Great Tribulation]

            Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up [G726: catch away (rapture): plugged, pulled, take] together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the Lord. (1Th 4:17)
            The "wrath to come" does not take place until after the Tribulation, so there is no need for a Pre-Trib Rapture to spare us from His wrath.
            ----------------------------------------------
            When the plain sense of Scripture make sense, seek no other sense.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Literalist-Luke View Post
              The "wrath to come" does not take place until after the Tribulation, so there is no need for a Pre-Trib Rapture to spare us from His wrath.
              It appears you are post-trib.
              I more look at a mid-tribulation, Rapture before the Great Trib or last 3,5 years

              (Do not want to argue about it)

              my God; in Him I will trust (Psa 91:2).

              If you have not accepted Jesus Christ as your Savior, NOW is the time.

              Persevere, pray and be ready for the Return of Christ.

              Comment


              • #8
                And I'm pre=trib. Which means that I believe all Christians will be changed right before the 7 year period the Bible calls the "tribulation"-and will go to be with the Lord.
                I believe this for more than one reason, one being- because the Bible gives us the exact number of days between certian events in the 7 year trib-including the return of the Lord to the Earth. (in Daniel) The "rapture" according to scripture will take us by surprise-in that we do not know the Day or the Hour. And when we see these things "begin" to take place-which they already have--we are to "look up for our redemption draws mear" So, I'm not looking for a hole in the ground-but a hole in the sky-that Blessed Hope.
                You will find that as you go through scripture some people will disagree on the where/when stuff of Bible prophesy.
                The bottom line is =be "pan"-trib. Knowing that it will all "pan" out for the Glory of God and that you will go to be with Him when He calls.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Roelof View Post
                  It appears you are post-trib.
                  100%
                  Originally posted by Roelof View Post
                  I more look at a mid-tribulation, Rapture before the Great Trib or last 3,5 years

                  (Do not want to argue about it)
                  That's fine.
                  ----------------------------------------------
                  When the plain sense of Scripture make sense, seek no other sense.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    We know there will be a rapture mainly because of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus from the dead. We also know that our corruptable, perishable bodies cannot enter the spiritual realm, we must be changed and the Bible says a change will come and one day we will be like the Lord Jesus for we will see Him as He is.
                    I have a Blog. Please visit!

                    My Blog http://bibleforums.org/forum/blog.php?b=537

                    Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by paradiseinn View Post
                      how do we know that there will be a rapture?the only thing i know is that there will be christians here when the beast system is in power.then GOD takes us out of here before the last battle between jesus and satan.i think...i'm not sure.please people i need an answer.i'm reading the bible now but i'm only in the third book(old testament)i guess i don't have the patience to find out myself thru reading.thanks people
                      Keep reading, but while you do ask the Holy Spirit to guide you through and help you understand. Pray for truth, wisdom & understanding.

                      Here are a few scriptures to chew on.

                      1 Thes 4:15-16 We will be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air
                      1 Cor 15:51-52 but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump
                      Rev 14;15-20 - Jesus comes & gathers his at the 7th trumpet (last trump).
                      Rev 20;4-5 - This is the first resurrection (rapture) . (which takes place after the mark of the beast. If this is the 1st resurrection after the mark of the beast then there couldn't be a resurrection 7 years prior because this is called the 1st resurrection and places it after the mark of the beast).
                      Matt 24:29-31 - Jesus tells us it happens Immediately after the tribulation He will gather his elect.
                      Wise men
                      still seek Him
                      ---------------------------
                      * 1 cross
                      + 3 nails
                      = 4 given
                      ------------------

                      It is best to;
                      Build your belief around the bible
                      Do Not build the bible around your belief !!!!
                      You will then find yourself on solid ground.[/color]

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by godsgirl View Post
                        And I'm pre=trib. Which means that I believe all Christians will be changed right before the 7 year period the Bible calls the "tribulation"-and will go to be with the Lord.
                        I believe this for more than one reason, one being- because the Bible gives us the exact number of days between certian events in the 7 year trib-including the return of the Lord to the Earth. (in Daniel) The "rapture" according to scripture will take us by surprise-in that we do not know the Day or the Hour. And when we see these things "begin" to take place-which they already have--we are to "look up for our redemption draws mear" So, I'm not looking for a hole in the ground-but a hole in the sky-that Blessed Hope.
                        You will find that as you go through scripture some people will disagree on the where/when stuff of Bible prophesy.
                        The bottom line is =be "pan"-trib. Knowing that it will all "pan" out for the Glory of God and that you will go to be with Him when He calls.
                        To be realistic - One day and One hour does not equal 7 years, but that is not what Jesus was talking about in Matthew 24. Jesus said no one would know the day and hour that heaven and earth will pass away. The earth does not pass away at the rapture, because we still have the 1000 year reign on earth.

                        Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

                        Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,


                        There are saints (those who hold the testimony of Jesus) written of all through the book of Revelation. What about them?
                        Wise men
                        still seek Him
                        ---------------------------
                        * 1 cross
                        + 3 nails
                        = 4 given
                        ------------------

                        It is best to;
                        Build your belief around the bible
                        Do Not build the bible around your belief !!!!
                        You will then find yourself on solid ground.[/color]

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Gods Child View Post
                          To be realistic - One day and One hour does not equal 7 years, but that is not what Jesus was talking about in Matthew 24. Jesus said no one would know the day and hour that heaven and earth will pass away. The earth does not pass away at the rapture, because we still have the 1000 year reign on earth.

                          Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

                          Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,


                          There are saints (those who hold the testimony of Jesus) written of all through the book of Revelation. What about them?

                          http://www.raptureready.com/rr-pretr...n-rapture.html


                          When we search the Scriptures and read the passages describing the Lord Jesus' return, we find verses that tell us we won't know the day and hour of that event. Matthew 25:13 says Jesus will return at an unknown time, while Revelation 12:6 indicates that the Jews will have to wait on the Lord 1,260 days, starting when the Antichrist stands in the Temple of God and declares himself to be God (2 Thes 2:4). This event will take place at the mid-point of the seven-year tribulation (Dan 9:27). Note that some people only see a three-and-a-half-year tribulation. In a way, they are correct because the first half of the tribulation will be relatively peaceful compared to the second half. Nonetheless, peaceful or not, there still remains a seven-year period called the tribulation. When the Jews flee into the wilderness, they know that all they have to do is wait out those 1,260 days (Mat 24:16). There is no way to apply the phrase "neither the day nor the hour" to this situation. The only way for these two viewpoints to be true is to separate the two distinct events transpiring here: 1) the rapture of the Church, which comes before the tribulation; and 2) the return of Jesus to the earth, which takes place roughly seven years later.


                          As far as the church goes-it is not mentioned after chapter 3 in Revelation-and the church age ends with the words Revelation 4:1, "come up hither," I believe that is a prophetic reference to the rapture of the Church, after chapter 3 Revelation deals with Israel and the Jewish people. Also, I think that there will be a few people who realise that Jesus Christ is Lord after the rapture,

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by godsgirl View Post
                            http://www.raptureready.com/rr-pretr...n-rapture.html
                            When we search the Scriptures and read the passages describing the Lord Jesus' return, we find verses that tell us we won't know the day and hour of that event. Matthew 25:13 says Jesus will return at an unknown time, while Revelation 12:6 indicates that the Jews will have to wait on the Lord 1,260 days, starting when the Antichrist stands in the Temple of God and declares himself to be God (2 Thes 2:4). This event will take place at the mid-point of the seven-year tribulation (Dan 9:27). Note that some people only see a three-and-a-half-year tribulation. In a way, they are correct because the first half of the tribulation will be relatively peaceful compared to the second half. Nonetheless, peaceful or not, there still remains a seven-year period called the tribulation. When the Jews flee into the wilderness, they know that all they have to do is wait out those 1,260 days (Mat 24:16). There is no way to apply the phrase "neither the day nor the hour" to this situation. The only way for these two viewpoints to be true is to separate the two distinct events transpiring here: 1) the rapture of the Church, which comes before the tribulation; and 2) the return of Jesus to the earth, which takes place roughly seven years later.
                            One day and one hour does not equate to a 3.5 or a 7 year period.
                            One day is 24 hours and an hour is 60 min. How can we equate 7 years out of that? It maybe true that we would not know the day and hour, but that does not mean we are taken out, because the bible never says we are.
                            Where I live it might be midnight, but in other places in the world they may be hours ahead or behind me. It’s called time zones. So I might see the next day (midnight) 4 or before someone else. On the other side of the earth it is day when it is night here. They are a whole day ahead of us. So how could we know the day and hour since we are all on different days and hours (time zones)?

                            Matthew 25 – the virgins – when Christ shuts the door and the others come an knock he says I knew you not to them. Which means they were never saved. This does not show them as being tribulation Saints, because the trib-Saints are said to be brethren, in the Lord, have the faith of Jesus, have the testimony of Jesus, which by all other accounts in the bible is the attributes of someone who is Saved.

                            To say we are taken out BEFORE, is going against what Jesus said when he said that Immediately AFTER the tribulation he will gather his elect. (Matthew 24:29-31)

                            Also Rev 20:4-6, which says the 1st resurrection happens after the mark of the beast. If this is the 1st resurrection after the mark of the beast, then there could not have been a 1st resurrection 7 years prior.

                            1 Cor 15:50-52 says ALL will be changed. If the trib-Saints were not included in that promise of ALL then this scripture lied to them. Also is said that at this time Death is swallowed up in victory. Death is not swallowed up during the tribulation.

                            2 These 2 is our gathering unto Christ – We are told that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: And that Even him (Jesus), whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
                            If the man of sin is destroyed at the brightness of his coming (chapter=subject our gathering unto him), then how can he continue for 7 years. If Jesus coming is after the working of satan, then how can Satan continue 7 years.
                            Wise men
                            still seek Him
                            ---------------------------
                            * 1 cross
                            + 3 nails
                            = 4 given
                            ------------------

                            It is best to;
                            Build your belief around the bible
                            Do Not build the bible around your belief !!!!
                            You will then find yourself on solid ground.[/color]

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by godsgirl View Post
                              As far as the church goes-it is not mentioned after chapter 3 in Revelation-and the church age ends with the words Revelation 4:1, "come up hither," I believe that is a prophetic reference to the rapture of the Church, after chapter 3 Revelation deals with Israel and the Jewish people. Also, I think that there will be a few people who realise that Jesus Christ is Lord after the rapture,
                              Many will look at the book of Revelation and say since the word Church is not mentioned, then it must be gone. Aren't there Christians mentioned throughout Revelation (6:9, 6:11, 7:14, 9:4, 12:11, 12:17, 13:7-10, 14:12-13, 15:2, 16:15, 18:4, 20:4), and aren't all Christians part of the church (Ephesians 4:4-5)?

                              The word “church” is not used at all from Revelation Chapter rev 3:22 to rev 22:16. So if we use that reasoning, (of Church not mentioned) then since Chapter 19-21 does not mention the word Church, then they are not the Church.

                              Note that just as the specific word "Jews" not being mentioned after Revelation 3:9 in no way requires that there will be no Jews in the tribulation, so the specific word "church" not being mentioned after Revelation 3:22 in no way requires that there will be no church in the tribulation.

                              Note that the word "church" isn't used in Chapters 19-21 of Revelation, or anywhere in the books of 2 Timothy, Titus, 2 Peter, 1 John, 2 John, and Jude. Do some then believe that these chapters and books don't refer to the church?

                              If we look at all the myriad descriptions of Christians in all the NT books, how many of these descriptions don't use the specific word "church," but do use other key words and phrases such as "in the Lord," "the faith of Jesus," "saints," “testimony of Jesus” and "brethren,". These are the same key words and phrases used to describe those Christians who will face the coming tribulation? Are those of Revelation not part of the sheepfold?

                              Why should those "in the Lord" in Revelation 14:13 not be considered to be the church, but those "in the Lord" in Romans 16:11-13, 1 Corinthians 4:17, Ephesians 2:21, Colossians 4:7, and 1 Thessalonians 3:8 should be?

                              Aren't the Christians "in the Lord" in the tribulation New Covenant saints, after the cross and after Pentecost, and not Old Covenant saints?

                              Why should those who have "the faith of Jesus" in Revelation 14:12 not be considered to be the church, but those who have "the faith of Jesus" in Romans 3:22, Galatians 2:16, Galatians 3:22, Philippians 3:9, and James 2:1 should be?

                              Why should the "saints" in Revelation 13:10 and Revelation 14:12 not be considered to be the church, but the "saints" in Revelation 19:8, 1 Corinthians 14:33, Ephesians 5:3, Colossians 1:12, Jude 3 should be?

                              Does it say the church ends in Revelation 3 and then resumes again in Revelation 19?

                              Why should the "brethren" in Revelation 6:11 not be considered to be the church, but the "brethren" in Revelation 19:10, Revelation 22:9, Romans 1:13, 1 Corinthians 1:10, and 1 Thessalonians 4:13 should be?

                              Why do those who hold the testimony of Jesus in Rev 6:9, 11:7, 12:11, 12:17 not be considered the Church, but those that hold the testimony of Jesus in Matt 8:4, Mark 6:11, 13:9, Luke 5:14, 9:5, 21:13, John 3:33, 5:34, 8:17, 21:24, Acts 13:22, 14:3, 22:18, 1Cor 1:6, 2:1, 2Cor 1:12, 2Thes 1:10, 2Tim 1:8, Heb 3:5, 11:5, Rev 1:2, 1:9, 19:10 should be considered the Church. Are not all that hold the testimony of Jesus part of the Church?

                              Note that no scripture promises anyone a rapture before the tribulation. Jesus says that he will come to gather us together "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29-31), and Paul says that Jesus' coming to gather us together must "destroy" the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8).

                              The word Church is also not used in 1 Thes 4:15-16, but we conclude that it is the Church. The word Church is also not used in 1 Cor 15:52 and Matt 24:29-31. But we know that it is the church and the same rapture account.

                              All believers are promised the rapture (resurrection)? So this promise includes all who are "in the Lord," "the faith of Jesus," "saints," “testimony of Jesus” and "brethren," that are described in the book of Revelation. All these are the Church.

                              Are not all promised redemption that are New Covenant Saints? Will not all that are "in the Lord," "the faith of Jesus," "saints," “testimony of Jesus” and "brethren," that are described in the book of Revelation be part of that promise? (Luke 21:28, Rom 3:24, 8:23, 1cor 1:30, Eph 1:7, 1:14, 4:30, Col 1:14, Heb 9:12, 9:15)

                              Are not all promised a resurrection that are “in the Lord," "the faith of Jesus," "saints," “testimony of Jesus” and "brethren,"? Are those that are described in the book of Revelation not part of that promise?

                              Are not all promised a Marriage Supper who are in the Lord," "the faith of Jesus," "saints," “testimony of Jesus” and "brethren,"? Are those that are described in the book of Revelation not be part of that promise?

                              If the bible tells us that Jesus will never separate the sheep (Mt 18:13, 25:32, lk 15:4, 15:6, John 10:1-27, Heb 13:20, 1pet 2:25) then why do some contend that those “in the Lord," "the faith of Jesus," "saints," “testimony of Jesus” and "brethren," that are described in the book of Revelation will be left behind (separated from the sheepfold)?

                              If the scriptures promise all these things to those “in the Lord," "the faith of Jesus," "saints," “testimony of Jesus” and "brethren", then how can those in the book of Revelation be left behind? Would not all these scriptures be a broken promise and a lie unto them if some were left behind? Would Jesus ever break a promise that is written to any believer?


                              By the scriptures “all” believers are promised a redemption, resurrection and Marriage Supper, so this includes the tribulation Saints. Jesus will not break his promise to anyone. He will never separate the flock.

                              All those “in the Lord," "the faith of Jesus," "saints," “testimony of Jesus” and "brethren" are part of the flock.

                              Since we see believers in the tribulation, the resurrection can not happen until all are accounted for and all promises fulfilled, to all believers.
                              Wise men
                              still seek Him
                              ---------------------------
                              * 1 cross
                              + 3 nails
                              = 4 given
                              ------------------

                              It is best to;
                              Build your belief around the bible
                              Do Not build the bible around your belief !!!!
                              You will then find yourself on solid ground.[/color]

                              Comment

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