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  • Please Help The Revelation - Chapter 1 Questions

    This is very ironic. Last night I was going through Revelation Chapter 1 and I wrote down some verses and questions to upload to this site today. I just saw someone else post some of the same content. Anyway, I didn't want to spam his thread with my questions so I made my own. Here goes.

    My favorite book of the Bible is The Revelation. It's always facinated but the end is nigh and I must start to understand The Revelation now more than ever. While reading through Chapter 1 I came upon some questions. If anyone can answer, please do so =]. Thanks!

    The Revelation - Chapter 1 - Verse 3:
    Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

    The signs are starting to become very consistent. The time deffinately is nigh. The United States secretly became the NAU (North American Union) in 2005 and soon, the Asian Union will be complete, and the 5 total Unions will unite to form 1 Government, 1 Currency, 1 People. Just as the Bible states, the end is nigh. My personal judgement would give us 5 - 10 years left on this earth before the tribulation begins. It is said that the anti-christ will be the one to lead us and unite us. Could this be one of the Rothchilds? This being said:

    The Revelation - Chapter 1 - Verse 9:
    I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Pat'-mos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    What does he min "companion in tribulation". Does he mean THE tribulation? Will he remain on earth during the tribulation to guide some of the mislead?

    The Revelation - Chapter 1 - Verses 12 - 17:
    And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as teh sound of many waters. And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strenght. And when I saw him I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

    Is he describing the appearance of "God himself"?

    Thank you for any help given!

  • #2
    Hello Jake - I'll hit your questions below, hope I'm helpful...

    Originally posted by Master Jake View Post

    The Revelation - Chapter 1 - Verse 3:
    Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

    The signs are starting to become very consistent. The time deffinately is nigh. The United States secretly became the NAU (North American Union) in 2005 and soon, the Asian Union will be complete, and the 5 total Unions will unite to form 1 Government, 1 Currency, 1 People. Just as the Bible states, the end is nigh. My personal judgement would give us 5 - 10 years left on this earth before the tribulation begins. It is said that the anti-christ will be the one to lead us and unite us. Could this be one of the Rothchilds? This being said:
    You may want to revise your date on the formation of a "NAU", FYI. In my opinion, however, you are focusing on the wrong "signs" - the key ones to watch for were the ones given by Jesus in Matt. 24 which speak more to the social and physical (natural) condition than the political one.

    The Revelation - Chapter 1 - Verse 9:
    I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Pat'-mos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    What does he min "companion in tribulation". Does he mean THE tribulation? Will he remain on earth during the tribulation to guide some of the mislead?
    He is speaking of the tribulation and persecution that had broken out against the Christians around the Roman Empire in his day at the hands of the Emperor Vespasian. Unlike the regional or localized trouble that had arisen in decades past against the church, his brothers were now facing intense opposition throughout the empire. Thus John, speaking of his current condition as a Roman prisoner at Patmos (the prison isle) was a "companion in tribulation."

    This reality forms one of the core themes of the Book of Revelation, as John is speaking to those who are currently facing great opposition, danger, and compromise while receiving a vision of the greatest opposition, danger, and compromise in all of history related to the return of Jesus. Thus John is a "companion" to those within his generation as well as a comforter to all who would be persecuted in future generations with the message of Jesus and His leadership to bring that persecution to an ultimate end.

    The Revelation - Chapter 1 - Verses 12 - 17:
    And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as teh sound of many waters. And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strenght. And when I saw him I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

    Is he describing the appearance of "God himself"?

    Thank you for any help given!
    He is describing the appearance of His friend, Jesus - the God-Man. That he would fall down as a dead man at the appearance of the fully glorified God-Man that he had known so intimately is a stunning and terrifying statement about the glory and power of Jesus to bring about a final end to the wickedness and corruption of the earth as the Worthy King.
    The Rookie

    Twelve is the number of government. Thus, it is quite apropos that I am on my way towards wielding the power of twelve bars - each bar like, say, a tribe.....or a star.....or, maybe an apostle. A blue apostle. Like apostle smurfs. Does anyone remember smurfs? And all the controversy about them being from the devil? It's probably bad that I juxtaposed "apostle" and "smurf" in the same sentence. But then, I probably lost you at "blue apostle". Yes, my friends, this is what "rare jewel of a person" is actually implying. "Rare Jewel of a Person" really means, "Potentially Insane".

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by the rookie View Post
      He is speaking of the tribulation and persecution that had broken out against the Christians around the Roman Empire in his day at the hands of the Emperor Vespasian.
      Just on some historical facts: Emperor Vespasian never instigated any persecutions of Christians. From what I've read of him, he was generally indifferent (his son Titus, however, seemed to have a true hatred toward them, but never did anything about it).

      Emperor Nero put forth the first persecution of Christians, which lasted for three and a half year, dying out when he committed suicide and the Empire went into turmoil when three emperors came and went in the timespan of a single year. Preterists generally take the view that John wrote the Revelation during this time.

      Emperor Domitian (another son of Vespasian) allegedly initiated a second persecution of Christians, but, as I've gathered, most historians doubt such a persecution ever took place since there is no solid evidence for it (at least, not until Christians wrote of it in the 4th century, a good 300 years after the fact). Futurists almost hands-down take the view that John wrote the Revelation during this time.

      Vespasian, on the other hand, doesn't seem to have been particularly concerned with trampling the followers of any religion (Christianity included) as much as with setting the Empire in order.
      To This Day

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by markedward View Post
        Just on some historical facts: Emperor Vespasian never instigated any persecutions of Christians. From what I've read of him, he was generally indifferent (his son Titus, however, seemed to have a true hatred toward them, but never did anything about it).

        Emperor Nero put forth the first persecution of Christians, which lasted for three and a half year, dying out when he committed suicide and the Empire went into turmoil when three emperors came and went in the timespan of a single year. Preterists generally take the view that John wrote the Revelation during this time.

        Emperor Domitian (another son of Vespasian) allegedly initiated a second persecution of Christians, but, as I've gathered, most historians doubt such a persecution ever took place since there is no solid evidence for it (at least, not until Christians wrote of it in the 4th century, a good 300 years after the fact). Futurists almost hands-down take the view that John wrote the Revelation during this time.

        Vespasian, on the other hand, doesn't seem to have been particularly concerned with trampling the followers of any religion (Christianity included) as much as with setting the Empire in order.
        Whoops - I meant Domitian, not Vespasian - I wrote hastily.

        Thought we would disagree there as well...

        Of course, I'm hoping we would agree on the particulars above on general principle....
        The Rookie

        Twelve is the number of government. Thus, it is quite apropos that I am on my way towards wielding the power of twelve bars - each bar like, say, a tribe.....or a star.....or, maybe an apostle. A blue apostle. Like apostle smurfs. Does anyone remember smurfs? And all the controversy about them being from the devil? It's probably bad that I juxtaposed "apostle" and "smurf" in the same sentence. But then, I probably lost you at "blue apostle". Yes, my friends, this is what "rare jewel of a person" is actually implying. "Rare Jewel of a Person" really means, "Potentially Insane".

        Comment


        • #5
          Of course, I'm hoping we would agree on the particulars above on general principle.
          Absolutely.

          Originally posted by Master Jake View Post
          Is he describing the appearance of "God himself"?
          Yes. Jesus the God-Man, as rookie said.

          Just to draw in compare Scripture...

          Revelation 1:12-16 I [John] turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man, dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.



          The sword coming from His mouth
          John says that Christ has a "sword" in His mouth.

          Revelation 19:11-16 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron scepter." He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: 'King of Kings and Lord of Lords.'
          Again, John describes Him with a sword in His mouth, and he says Christ's name is the "Word of God."

          Hebrews 4:12
          For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

          Here we see that the "sword" is really God's word, so the "sword" coming from Christ's mouth above is God's word. So, literally, John is saying that the Word of God [Christ] uses the word of God [spoken word] as His weapon.


          The appearance of the Son of Man
          In Revelation 1, John describes the Son of Man as such:
          - He has a robe down to His feet.
          - He has a golden sash.
          - His hair is white, as wool or snow.
          - His face is white, as the sun.
          - His eyes were as fire.
          - His voice was as many waters.
          - His feet were as bronze.

          Before we examine these, let's jump ahead a couple of chapters and pull in some other Scripture:

          Revelation 4:2-10 At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it. And the one who sat there had the appearance of jasper and carnelian. A rainbow, resembling an emerald, encircled the throne. Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty-four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads. From the throne came flashes of lightning, rumblings and peals of thunder. Before the throne, seven lamps were blazing. These are the seven spirits of God. Also before the throne there was what looked like a sea of glass, clear as crystal.

          In the center, around the throne, were four living creatures, and they were covered with eyes, in front and in back. The first living creature was like a lion, the second was like an ox, the third had a face like a man, the fourth was like a flying eagle. Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under his wings. Day and night they never stop saying: "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come." Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever, the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne, and worship him who lives for ever and ever.


          The throne in heaven is described as this:
          - The one on the throne was as jasper and carnelian (i.e., reddish).
          - An emerald-like (green) rainbow encircles the throne.
          - The 24 elders surround the throne.
          - The area around the throne is as a sea of glass, or crystal.
          - Around the throne itself are four living creatures.

          So, our "pool" of Scripture is the description of Christ (the Son of Man), and of the throne in heaven.

          Ezekiel 1:4-5 I looked, and I saw a windstorm coming out of the north—an immense cloud with flashing lightning and surrounded by brilliant light. The center of the fire looked like glowing metal, and in the fire was what looked like four living creatures.

          Here we see the four living creatures, in the center of what appears to be fire, or glowing metal.

          Ezekiel 1:22-24 Spread out above the heads of the living creatures was what looked like an expanse, sparkling like ice, and awesome. Under the expanse their wings were stretched out one toward the other, and each had two wings covering its body. When the creatures moved, I heard the sound of their wings, like the roar of rushing waters, like the voice of the Almighty, like the tumult of an army. When they stood still, they lowered their wings.

          Here we see an expanse "sparkling like ice". Thus far, this matches what we read in Revelation 4 above.

          Note that it also says that the sound of the wings of the four living creatures was "like the roar of rushing waters, like the voice of the Almighty." This is similar to how John describes the Son of Man's voice as "rushing water".

          Ezekiel 1:25-28 Then there came a voice from above the expanse over their heads as they stood with lowered wings. Above the expanse over their heads was what looked like a throne of sapphire, and high above on the throne was a figure like that of a man. I saw that from what appeared to be his waist up he looked like glowing metal, as if full of fire, and that from there down he looked like fire; and brilliant light surrounded him. Like the appearance of a rainbow in the clouds on a rainy day, so was the radiance around him. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD.

          Here we learn that the four living creatures are about the throne in heaven, and we see that "the appearance of a rainbow" is how it appears around the throne, just as we see in Revelation 4.

          Also note, the one on the throne is described as "the figure like that of a man" and that He appears "like glowing metal" and that "brilliant light" surrounds Him. This description, though a little less detailed, matches that of the Son of Man.

          Daniel 7:9-10,13 As I looked, thrones were set in place, and the Ancient of Days took his seat. His clothing was as white as snow; the hair of his head was white like wool. His throne was flaming with fire, and its wheels were all ablaze. A river of fire was flowing, coming out from before him. ... In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence.

          The one on the throne is described as having hair as white as wool (matching Revelation 1), a throne as fire (matching Ezekiel 1), and a "river of fire" coming from the throne (similar to Ezekiel's description in Ezekiel 1:4). Daniel also says that He saw the Son of Man approach the throne of heaven, which resembles the overall description of Revelation 1, 4 and 5, being the appearance of the Son of Man, the view of the throne of heaven, and the Lamb coming to the throne.

          Daniel 10:4-6 On the twenty-fourth day of the first month, as I was standing on the bank of the great river, the Tigris, I looked up and there before me was a man dressed in linen, with a belt of the finest gold around his waist. His body was like chrysolite, his face like lightning, his eyes like flaming torches, his arms and legs like the gleam of burnished bronze, and his voice like the sound of a multitude.

          Whether this figure is Christ or not has been debated, but regardless, the description here heavily matches that of the Son of Man in Revelation 1, as well as the "figure like that of a man" in Ezekiel 1, namely: this individual seen in Daniel has a belt of gold, a face "like lightning," eyes of fire, and legs and arms of "burnished bronze." Further, Daniel says his voice is like "the sound of a multitude," corresponding to Ezekiel's comparison of the four living creatures' wings sounding like "the roar of rushing waters, like the voice of the Almighty, like the tumult of an army."


          Conclusion
          All in all, the description of the Son of Man (Christ) in Revelation 1 corresponds 100% to descriptions of God, as given in Ezekiel 1, Daniel 7 (and possibly 10), and Revelation 4.

          So, the answer is 'yes,' John was describing the appearance of "God Himself" - specifically, Jesus, who is God.
          To This Day

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi Master Jake,

            Originally posted by Master Jake View Post

            The Revelation - Chapter 1 - Verse 3:
            Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
            I love this book too, and this blessing is good incentive to read it and understand. I think it's great you are seeking understanding in this book. Did you know that the end of the book has a similar blessing?

            Rev 22:7
            "Behold, I am coming quickly! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book."
            NKJV

            My personal judgement would give us 5 - 10 years left on this earth before the tribulation begins. It is said that the anti-christ will be the one to lead us and unite us. Could this be one of the Rothchilds?
            It is important to refrain from setting time frames or trying to identify the Antichrist. The identity of the Antichrist will remain a mystery until he is revealed, see 2 Thessalonians chapter 2. There have been many attempts by various people at trying to establish both general time frames and even specific dates. The problem with this is when they turn out to be wrong, the people who followed them end up confused and disillusioned. There was one particularly notorious teacher who wrote a little book entitled "88 reasons why Christ will return in 1988." When it didn't happen, many people were very disappointed.

            It is interesting and good to study but just be careful about these things.


            The Revelation - Chapter 1 - Verses 12 - 17:
            And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as teh sound of many waters. And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strenght. And when I saw him I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
            Is he describing the appearance of "God himself"?

            Thank you for any help given!
            This is Jesus Christ in glory. Read down to verse 18 and you will see how we can know this.

            Happy studying Master Jake
            Last edited by Tanya~; Sep 25th 2008, 02:17 AM.
            Love In Christ,
            Tanya






            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Master Jake View Post
              Just as the Bible states, the end is nigh. My personal judgement would give us 5 - 10 years left on this earth before the tribulation begins. It is said that the anti-christ will be the one to lead us and unite us.
              Why not 5-10 days? I would imagine a crises would bring about the desire to unite behind a single world leader. Whatever that bad thing is that happens, could be considered a tribulation. Maybe some people will experience it differently, depending on where they live.
              My point is we have no reason to expect everything to continue on fine, until so many years after the anti-Christ takes over. We can experience a lot of bad things, in the mean time.
              If you lived in Cambodia back when the Kamer-Rouge killed a third of the population, you would probably think you were in the tribulation, while being marched off to your death.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by TanyaP View Post
                Is he describing the appearance of "God himself"?
                Obviously there is tons of symbology in this description of the one like a son of man.
                I would go so far as to say the whole thing is symbolic. It mixes the two Persons together into a being that is guiding and protecting the churches, that are also symbolic. So, this being that John sees and has touch him would be an angel, like the one who spoke to Daniel, who is a representation of the whole Godhead.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I too love Revelations. It's amazing and scary at the same time.

                  Out of curiousity, does anyone think Christ will return as he appears in his "God Form" as seen in Rev chap 1, or in his resurrected human form?

                  It won't matter either way if your in Christ, because just seeing him coming in the clouds of heaven will bring untold joy, but to face him as John did would probably overload all my senses.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'm really scarred because it's so easy to mess up and you have to be ready at all times. What if I don't make it? I don't know if I could survive the 7 year torture of tribulation.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Master Jake, tell me this.

                      Where and in whom to do you place your hope?
                      Seek ye FIRST the kingdom.
                      Not second or third, but first.
                      Only when all else pales to God, when He receives all glory,
                      when He is the source of all hope,
                      when His love is received and freely given,
                      holding not to the world but to the promise to come,
                      will all other things be added unto to you.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Master Jake View Post
                        I'm really scarred because it's so easy to mess up and you have to be ready at all times. What if I don't make it? I don't know if I could survive the 7 year torture of tribulation.
                        You might be glad to know that the Great Tribulation is not 7 years of torture. The Great Tribulation is 3.5 years long, begins with the persecution of Jews and spreads to Christians. It isn't as if you will be tortured for three and a half years. But if you are worried about it, Jesus tells us what we should do. Look it up in Luke 21:34-36. What do you see there?
                        Love In Christ,
                        Tanya






                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by markedward View Post
                          Just on some historical facts: Emperor Vespasian never instigated any persecutions of Christians. From what I've read of him, he was generally indifferent (his son Titus, however, seemed to have a true hatred toward them, but never did anything about it).

                          Emperor Nero put forth the first persecution of Christians, which lasted for three and a half year, dying out when he committed suicide and the Empire went into turmoil when three emperors came and went in the timespan of a single year. Preterists generally take the view that John wrote the Revelation during this time.

                          Emperor Domitian (another son of Vespasian) allegedly initiated a second persecution of Christians, but, as I've gathered, most historians doubt such a persecution ever took place since there is no solid evidence for it (at least, not until Christians wrote of it in the 4th century, a good 300 years after the fact). Futurists almost hands-down take the view that John wrote the Revelation during this time.

                          Vespasian, on the other hand, doesn't seem to have been particularly concerned with trampling the followers of any religion (Christianity included) as much as with setting the Empire in order.
                          While agreeing with your general outline as regards the emperors, who were on the whole far too busy to take too much notice of Christianity we must beware of assuming that there was therefore no persecution.

                          Up to the time of Nero the church had got away with being seen as a Jewish sect and therefore legally acceptable. (The Jews had a special relationship with the Roman Empire dating back to 1st century BC). The unforunate thing about the Neronian persecution (apart of course from the fierce nature of that persecution in Rome) was that it drew attention to Christians as not being 'Jews'. This thus led to much local persecution at different times throughout the empire as reflected in Revelation.

                          This was partly brought about by Jewish reaction to Christianity which they resented, so that as a result some Jews regularly fomented trouble for Christians (the synagogue of Satan in Revelation), and partly because of the fact that over zealous governors saw in Christians as an example of troublemakers against the state. With their unique beliefs and their unwillingness to offer incense to the emperor they were always a target for pagans, especially in the East where feelings about emperor worship were strong.

                          Thus spasmodic persecution arose continually, especially when governors were efficient. Ironically it would be 'good' emperors who persecuted most because they took notice of deviants.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Master Jake View Post
                            I'm really scarred because it's so easy to mess up and you have to be ready at all times. What if I don't make it? I don't know if I could survive the 7 year torture of tribulation.
                            Hi, I would have thought that this is developing into End Times chat and should be removed there.

                            However in view of your anguish may I suggest that you look more closely into what the Bible itself actually says about the 'seven years tribulation'. You will be hard put to find it there.

                            There is not even a 'Great Tribulation'. Great tribulation spoken of in Matthew 24 occurred around 70 AD onwards and was great tribulation on the Jews. Great tribulation in Revelation 2 was on the church. That being so the great tribulation in chapter 7 should also be seen as referring to the church throughout the ages.

                            In no case is there a reference to seven.

                            Interpretation of Daniel and Revelation is widely speculative and must very much be seen in the light of other Scriptures. Unfortunately it has got into the hands of authors who make a lot of money out of their speculations.

                            You would do far better accepting that Jesus Christ is coming again and then concentrating your attention more on learning about Him and His basic teachings, together with the basic teachings of Paul, Peter, etc.
                            End times teaching only too often paradoxically takes the eyes off Jesus Christ as He is NOW.

                            If you must keep your attention on Revelation you might try looking at the commentary on Revelation at

                            http://www.geocities.com/revelationofjohn/


                            It seeks to establish Revelation on the basis of the vast amount of Scripture background which John brought into Revelation, without indulging in speculations and sees it as applicable to the church throughout the centuries. John was very much writing to the people of his own day, as well as to us.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by petepet View Post
                              While agreeing with your general outline as regards the emperors, who were on the whole far too busy to take too much notice of Christianity we must beware of assuming that there was therefore no persecution.
                              I think it's obvious you didn't read my post, because you're claiming I assumed "that there was therefore no persecution." What I did say specifically was that there is no evidence that Vespasian, the emperor that rookie had mentioned, did not instigate a Christian persecution, but that he was "more concerned" with settling the Empire into order following the turmoil it went into as a result of four emperors dying in quick succession. I was speaking in the context of the emperors of the Roman Empire, not persecution as a whole, and I did not once say there was "therefore no persecution" as you claim I did.
                              To This Day

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