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  • Please Help confused and in a corner

    I would like some feedback please:
    I do not see how to get around Rev 20:5 It seems that the first resurrection occurs at the same time as the antichrist is bound for a thousand years.. where then the wrath...???????????????????????????????
    Dragonfighter1
    Vivo est Ministro

  • #2
    Good question? I am now confused too. Hope someone has some insight

    Comment


    • #3
      God's wrath is poured out on the beast worshipers prior to Christ's second coming, and prior to the resurrection of the tribulation martyrs (the first resurrection). The timetable is explained here [Rev 6:10-11]. God's wrath doesn't begin until the last tribulation martyr that is supposed to be killed is killed, then Wrath, then the resurrection of the Martyrs and translation of the elect that remain alive at Christ's coming.

      The Angels carrying out God's Wrath are instructed not to hurt the elect, those that have his seal [see Rev 9:4], which is evidence that the elect are present during God's Wrath, but protected from it.

      Satan is bound and cast into the bottomless pit for 1000 years, not the Beast [see Rev 20:2].

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Dragonfighter1 View Post
        I would like some feedback please:
        I do not see how to get around Rev 20:5 It seems that the first resurrection occurs at the same time as the antichrist is bound for a thousand years.. where then the wrath...???????????????????????????????
        In reading Rev 6 we see that Jesus opening the seals begins the "wrath of the Lamb", Jesus is the only One worthy to open the seals of God's wrath. It is also a time when believers are persecuted, so it seems that the wrath of God upon those who reject Him has begun and also severe persecution of the saints. Rev 20:5 would be after the GT (great tribulation), and prior to the Millennial.

        First resurrection may not necessarily be a counting resurrections thing either, "first resurrection" could describe resurrection to life, which all believers in Christ will experience at some point, be it all of them at one time or one of them at a time, they will all experience resurrection to life immortal/incorruptible.


        sigpic

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        • #5
          Then I must be a post tribber?
          Dragonfighter1
          Vivo est Ministro

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by quiet dove View Post
            In reading Rev 6 we see that Jesus opening the seals begins the "wrath of the Lamb", Jesus is the only One worthy to open the seals of God's wrath. It is also a time when believers are persecuted, so it seems that the wrath of God upon those who reject Him has begun and also severe persecution of the saints. Rev 20:5 would be after the GT (great tribulation), and prior to the Millennial.

            First resurrection may not necessarily be a counting resurrections thing either, "first resurrection" could describe resurrection to life, which all believers in Christ will experience at some point, be it all of them at one time or one of them at a time, they will all experience resurrection to life immortal/incorruptible.
            I should have put in the above post that the thousand years is while Satan is bound, or IMHU


            sigpic

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Dragonfighter1 View Post
              I would like some feedback please:
              I do not see how to get around Rev 20:5 It seems that the first resurrection occurs at the same time as the antichrist is bound for a thousand years.. where then the wrath...???????????????????????????????
              Think about Hebrews 9:28, and then apply how it shows Jesus appears at the time of salvation.
              What is said in the first verse of Rev. 19?
              salvation

              So make the time of Jesus appears as placed at the start of Rev. 19, then soon comes the marriage and the saints get their attire that they will come later from heaven wearing.

              See how "armies" come down after the marriage?
              armies - as in plural
              but the saints won't all go fight at Armageddon

              one army - the great tribulation martyrs won't fight because they have already overcome the beast

              thus - they will "live and reign"
              the other army of saints - will live, fight, reign
              "they sat"
              (To understand this properly - we need to let chapter 19 show us the army that went to the battle.

              Rev. 19:1
              "And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying...salvation..."
              . (Jesus appeared) - rapture time
              19:2
              "For....he hath judged the great whore city, which did corrupt the earth..hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand."
              . (mystery, Babylon is punished)
              The great tribulation corrupt the earth city has been taken down.
              19:3
              "And the four and twenty elders...worshipped God..."
              . (notice this is after the time of the 7th trumpet - as that 7th trumpet begins with the 24 elders as still seated from their time of chapter 4)
              19:5
              "...all ye his servants, and ye that fear him both small and great."
              . (Rev. 11:18 - fear Him - both small and great- 7th trumpet)
              19:7
              "..the marriage of the Lamb is come...his wfe hath made herself ready."
              19:8
              "And to her was granted...fine linen, clean and white...saints."
              19:11
              "...heaven opened..."
              19:14
              "And the armies [which were] in heaven followed...clothed in fine linen, white and clean."

              19:20
              "...his army."
              20:4
              "And...they sat..."
              http://prophecyinsights.com

              Comment


              • #8
                The 6th seal begins the wrath of the Lamb.

                The Lamb - or God's wrath can't begin till the 5th seal is over.

                "How long...dost thou not judge and avenge..."
                . (5th seal)
                But shortly it will become time for the wicked to go hide in the rocks - for Jesus has appeared - and time to avenge the blood of the tribulation martyrs.


                John 5 shows that there is only one hour - one moment of time - when all of the just will rise.

                Then later will come an hour - a time - when all of the wicked will rise from the dead.


                When is the hour for the just to all rise from the dead?
                Rev. 11 - the 7th trumpet
                . (where the great earthquake hour occurs - and the two witnesses are to rise at the same hour)


                So what does Rev. 6 actually begin?
                . The nation that is to anger Israel in the prophecy foretold in Deuteronomy 32.
                V34 = sealed
                laid up in store

                / Iraq
                The seals are the story outline of the times of Iraq.
                http://prophecyinsights.com

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Dragonfighter1 View Post
                  I would like some feedback please:
                  I do not see how to get around Rev 20:5 It seems that the first resurrection occurs at the same time as the antichrist is bound for a thousand years.. where then the wrath...???????????????????????????????
                  The first resurrection that secured our salvation and consequently our victory over the "second death" was Christ's resurrection. Acts 26:23 describes Christ’s physical resurrection as the first resurrection, saying, “Christ should suffer, and that He should be protos ek anastasis nekros (or) the first resurrection from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles (ethnos Strong’s 1484)."

                  Colossians 1:18 closely mirrors Acts 26:23, saying, “And he (Christ) is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn prootótokos (Strong’s 4416) from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.”

                  Revelation 1:5 uses the same Greek word to describe Christ’s triumphant resurrection, saying, “Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begottenprootótokos (Strong’s 4416) of the dead,and the prince of the kings of the earth.”

                  Paul similarly says in 1 Corinthians 15:20, “now is Christ egeégertai (or) risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.”
                  "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).

                  http://www.evangelicaltruth.com/

                  WPM

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by wpm View Post
                    The first resurrection that secured our salvation and consequently our victory over the "second death" was Christ's resurrection. Acts 26:23 describes Christ’s physical resurrection as the first resurrection, saying, “Christ should suffer, and that He should be protos ek anastasis nekros (or) the first resurrection from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles (ethnos Strong’s 1484)."

                    Colossians 1:18 closely mirrors Acts 26:23, saying, “And he (Christ) is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn prootótokos (Strong’s 4416) from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.”

                    Revelation 1:5 uses the same Greek word to describe Christ’s triumphant resurrection, saying, “Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begottenprootótokos (Strong’s 4416) of the dead,and the prince of the kings of the earth.”

                    Paul similarly says in 1 Corinthians 15:20, “now is Christ egeégertai (or) risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.”

                    WPM, you really have me confused. Well actually I confuse myself but you exposed it to me.. Ermmm.... Isnt rev 20:5 the first Resurrection of the dead in Christ. Yes Christ was the first of all but it does call rev 20:5 the FIRST resurrection.... of the dead in Christ

                    I am not trying to start an arguement. I am earnestly seeking to understand. (I truly am a slow learner)
                    Dragonfighter1
                    Vivo est Ministro

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Dragonfighter1 View Post
                      WPM, you really have me confused. Well actually I confuse myself but you exposed it to me.. Ermmm.... Isnt rev 20:5 the first Resurrection of the dead in Christ. Yes Christ was the first of all but it does call rev 20:5 the FIRST resurrection.... of the dead in Christ

                      I am not trying to start an arguement. I am earnestly seeking to understand. (I truly am a slow learner)
                      I believe that WPM is an amillennialist. If I am correct, he believes that we have been in the 1000 year millennial reign with Christ for the last 2000 years, and that Satan is currently bound and in the pit where he has been that whole time. In my opinion, this particular doctrine has no scriptural support.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Dragonfighter1 View Post
                        I would like some feedback please:
                        I do not see how to get around Rev 20:5 It seems that the first resurrection occurs at the same time as the antichrist is bound for a thousand years.. where then the wrath...???????????????????????????????
                        It is confusing when one takes the 1000 years literally. The phrase 1000 years is being used metaphorically and denotes "timelessness" outside of this relm. This is truley the understand when Peter states 1000 years as a day and a day as a 1000 years, where? in heaven with the Lord. (though Satan is in Hell)

                        So Satan is not yet bound but he will be prior to Christ's return. How can he arise from the bottomless pit least he be bound?

                        Mark

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by wpm View Post
                          The first resurrection that secured our salvation and consequently our victory over the "second death" was Christ's resurrection. Acts 26:23 describes Christ’s physical resurrection as the first resurrection, saying, “Christ should suffer, and that He should be protos ek anastasis nekros (or) the first resurrection from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles (ethnos Strong’s 1484)."

                          Colossians 1:18 closely mirrors Acts 26:23, saying, “And he (Christ) is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn prootótokos (Strong’s 4416) from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.”

                          Revelation 1:5 uses the same Greek word to describe Christ’s triumphant resurrection, saying, “Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begottenprootótokos (Strong’s 4416) of the dead,and the prince of the kings of the earth.”

                          Paul similarly says in 1 Corinthians 15:20, “now is Christ egeégertai (or) risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.”
                          Originally Posted by quiet dove
                          First resurrection may not necessarily be a counting resurrections thing either, "first resurrection" could describe resurrection to life, which all believers in Christ will experience at some point, be it all of them at one time or one of them at a time, they will all experience resurrection to life immortal/incorruptible.

                          Christ's was resurrected "first" certainly, we know this by the eyewitness accounts, seeing that his body was no longer in his tomb.

                          Mar 16:6 And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him
                          An easy way to prove that "*no resurrection" of believers has occured since Christ's resurrection would be to dig up the dead ones and see if they are still there

                          -------------------------------------------------------------------

                          *Mat 27:52-53 noted

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Dragonfighter1 View Post
                            I would like some feedback please:
                            I do not see how to get around Rev 20:5 It seems that the first resurrection occurs at the same time as the antichrist is bound for a thousand years.. where then the wrath...???????????????????????????????
                            1st point.
                            The "AntiChrist" is not bound at all when Revelation 20:5 takes place. The Beast, (which you call the AntiChrist), is already judged and burning alive in the Lake of Fire.

                            And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. -Revelation 19:20.

                            2nd point.
                            You see, Revelation 20 talks about when the Lord establishes His Kingdom here on earth, the one point that has Amils crawling up walls. It is not the Beast who is seal away for 1000 years, it is Satan.

                            And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. -Revelation 20:2-3

                            3rd point.
                            Like it is written in Daniel 7, the Lord willl be given the entire earth, and He shall rule it, and His saints will rule it with Him. Those who died during the Great Tribulation for the sake of Lord Jesus's Gospel will be resurrected to rule the world with Him.

                            And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Revelation 20:4

                            I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment [was] white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne [was like] the fiery flame, [and] his wheels [as] burning fire. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. -Dan 7:9-10

                            I saw in the night visions, and, behold, [one] like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion [is] an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom [that] which shall not be destroyed. -Dan 7:13-14

                            I was going to comment, but I feel instead that the explanation that the Angel gives Daniel is more than sufficient.

                            I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things. These great beasts, which are four, [are] four kings, [which] shall arise out of the earth. But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever. Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth [were of] iron, and his nails [of] brass; [which] devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet; And of the ten horns that [were] in his head, and [of] the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even [of] that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look [was] more stout than his fellows. I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom. -Daniel 7:16-22

                            Especially verse 22 explains even in the OT where the saints were going to be attacked and conquered by the "little horn", which in Revelation he is called the Beast. But the Lord came, and gave His righteous judgment to the saints, and they end up taking over the entire earth. This is the roots of Revelation 20:4-6.

                            The reason why the rest of the believers were not resurrected is because the final judgment is not until after the Lord hands over the earth to "The Ancient One" for destruction. (Revelation 20:11, 1 Peter 3:10, 1 Corinthian 15:23-28). When the earth is being emptied of all souls, the earth and the heavens will be destroyed by God the Father, hence trhe reason for verse 5.

                            I hope this helps a little.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Dragonfighter1 View Post
                              WPM, you really have me confused. Well actually I confuse myself but you exposed it to me.. Ermmm.... Isnt rev 20:5 the first Resurrection of the dead in Christ. Yes Christ was the first of all but it does call rev 20:5 the FIRST resurrection.... of the dead in Christ

                              I am not trying to start an arguement. I am earnestly seeking to understand. (I truly am a slow learner)
                              Actually, dragonfighter, you are only repeating what the sriptures actually say, without interpretation.


                              But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection. Revelation 20:5.

                              Let every man be a liar, and the scriptures be true.

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