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  • Make up your mind people!

    There is so much confusion, and sometimes I wonder about the rapture theology but I am seeing more and more proof for it. However how can anyone win an argument these days, this is how a typical discsion about end times theology goes.

    1st dude:
    I Thess. is talking about the rapture

    2nd dude:
    actually it's not, that scripture is often misunderstood, it refers to the 2nd coming

    3rd dude:
    actually it was a past historical event that's already happened

    4th dude:
    whatever this is too confusing, I don't care anymore.

    People make such broad statements matter of factly, but there are so many conflicting sides to choose from! It just really annoys me. Not everyone can be right. I don't think we are Christians are supposed to be divided.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Forgiven Alaskan View Post
    There is so much confusion, and sometimes I wonder about the rapture theology but I am seeing more and more proof for it. However how can anyone win an argument these days, this is how a typical discsion about end times theology goes.

    1st dude:
    I Thess. is talking about the rapture

    2nd dude:
    actually it's not, that scripture is often misunderstood, it refers to the 2nd coming

    3rd dude:
    actually it was a past historical event that's already happened

    4th dude:
    whatever this is too confusing, I don't care anymore.

    People make such broad statements matter of factly, but there are so many conflicting sides to choose from! It just really annoys me. Not everyone can be right. I don't think we are Christians are supposed to be divided.
    How can you have evidence of a rapture???

    Just kidding. Sorry you are frustrated. I did a thread on here about why is God allowing us to have so many different end time views....because after all He is IN control of everything.

    I truly think if this were THAT important, we would all be in agreement through His Holy Spirit. The only thing we do agree on is our core faith beliefs...Jesus is the Son of God, died for our sins, rose on the third day and is now sitting at the right hand side of God and will one day return to judge the living and the dead...and the trinity and so forth.

    That is actually the easiest part of the bible to understand! The Gospel message. Everything else is debated, discussed and studied and studied and studied....

    I seriously doubt you will see us all coming together with one idea on this anytime soon either....

    But take heart...even Jesus' disciples couldn't agree on everything...with again the exception of Christ Himself.


    God bless
    "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Forgiven Alaskan View Post
      Not everyone can be right. I don't think we are Christians are supposed to be divided.
      OK...tell us what YOUR view is and we'll all go with that!

      Actually, third dude isn't supposed to be posting his preterist viewpoint.


      I agree it is confusing. I think for the most part we all argue in love on this board. It certainly keeps the place lively.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Forgiven Alaskan View Post
        There is so much confusion, and sometimes I wonder about the rapture theology but I am seeing more and more proof for it. However how can anyone win an argument these days, this is how a typical discsion about end times theology goes.

        1st dude:
        I Thess. is talking about the rapture

        2nd dude:
        actually it's not, that scripture is often misunderstood, it refers to the 2nd coming

        3rd dude:
        actually it was a past historical event that's already happened

        4th dude:
        whatever this is too confusing, I don't care anymore.

        People make such broad statements matter of factly, but there are so many conflicting sides to choose from! It just really annoys me. Not everyone can be right. I don't think we are Christians are supposed to be divided.
        I know exactly how you feel. I will not discuss what I believe scripture to say about the endtimes in this thread. Rather, I will tell you how I came to a solid conclusion through the scriptures as to how things will unfold.

        I banished every thought I ever had and every book or statement I ever read (except the Bible) concerning the endtimes. I then went back to the scriptures and read only what Jesus stated specifically about it. Then I wrote down what He DIDN'T say. After I had those two colums down on paper, I had my answer.
        I got my info from the 4 gosples and from Revelation as this was a Revelation from Jesus.
        Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held it's ground.
        ********************************************
        MAY WE IN EVIL'S HOUR, TRUTH'S SWORD WITH BOLDNESS WIELD

        Comment


        • #5
          I feel very confused about rapture and endtimes too, so when I read something confusing I bring it up to the Lord in prayer. I say, "I dont understand why it says this, or I dont know what to think about such and such." It helps me not be so confused if I tell The Lord Im confused. Did I just confuse you? sorry if I did.
          I was just trying to say, dont sweat it, just bring your confusion to The Lord, so he may clarify stuff for you...It is after all his time-line.
          ysic,
          Colo
          Watch my videos
          Signs!
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8AXCXED1HU

          Jack Chick

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4Q9Uam0cWU


          For though I am absent from you in body,I am present with you in spirit, and delight to see how orderly you are, and how firm your faith in Christ is.
          Colossians 2:5 . NIV

          Comment


          • #6
            One thing i've noticed is many of the debates on certain boards on this forum tend to be useless, only causing division, and people are not looking for truth, but simply looking to prove their viewpoint right. I say let each believe what they want, as long as it isn't heretical or anything, and just let God deal with them. If you believe in the rapture though, just don't make the assumption that you are right and you won't have to go through the tribulation, since that is a dangerous thought. Simply accept that you could be right or wrong, and that it is all God's hands. Personally, i am post-trib, but i know that when we all come to our final opinions about the end times that we will almost all be wrong, so admit your ignorance and trust Him.

            Also, don't debate or argue these points with fellow Christians, just discuss to a point that helps both sides, but don't pass that point like most do.
            While you are on this site, don't debate to win and prove yourself right, but discuss to learn and find truth, and to encourage through a humble spirit. God Bless

            Ephesians 4:1-3
            As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Forgiven Alaskan View Post
              There is so much confusion, and sometimes I wonder about the rapture theology but I am seeing more and more proof for it. However how can anyone win an argument these days, this is how a typical discsion about end times theology goes.

              1st dude:
              I Thess. is talking about the rapture

              2nd dude:
              actually it's not, that scripture is often misunderstood, it refers to the 2nd coming

              3rd dude:
              actually it was a past historical event that's already happened

              4th dude:
              whatever this is too confusing, I don't care anymore.

              People make such broad statements matter of factly, but there are so many conflicting sides to choose from! It just really annoys me. Not everyone can be right. I don't think we are Christians are supposed to be divided.

              wait a minute...I want to slip in after 2nd dude.
              It is referring to the 2nd coming, which just so happens to INCLUDE the resurrection and rapture.

              FYI, you'll eventually avoid most conversations in this forum because it's impossible to study the end times without someone coming along rebutting from some extreme point of view.
              Don't seek too much knowledge. You just may be putting more weight on your shoulders than you're able to bare. Let God be the one to decide how quickly you grow.

              Comment


              • #8
                Sadly, sometimes when we set out to discover the rapture/tribulation time line, we miss the main point of various passages. For instance, let's take 1Thess. 4. Here Paul says,

                13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of [the] archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

                I'm a little ashamed to say that I have often skipped right over verses 13 and 18. The main reason why Paul wrote this down, it seems, was to offer the Thessalonian church a bit of encouragement and consolation. He wants to inform them, he says, so that they will not grieve or live without hope. Not only this, but he want US to remind each other of these things so that we might comfort others.

                I wonder how many discussions of this passage bring our common hope to mind?

                John, at the beginning of Revelation, wishes that all those who read it are blessed in the reading of it. How many people in the world, believers or non-believers, are blessed when they read Revelation?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by moonglow View Post
                  How can you have evidence of a rapture???
                  Scripture. All of these deal with a rapture event of some kind. Acts 8:39, 2 Corinthians 12:2, 12:4, 1 Thess 4:17, and Rev 12:5.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Forgiven Alaskan View Post
                    There is so much confusion, and sometimes I wonder about the rapture theology but I am seeing more and more proof for it. However how can anyone win an argument these days, this is how a typical discsion about end times theology goes.

                    1st dude:
                    I Thess. is talking about the rapture

                    2nd dude:
                    actually it's not, that scripture is often misunderstood, it refers to the 2nd coming

                    3rd dude:
                    actually it was a past historical event that's already happened

                    4th dude:
                    whatever this is too confusing, I don't care anymore.

                    People make such broad statements matter of factly, but there are so many conflicting sides to choose from! It just really annoys me. Not everyone can be right. I don't think we are Christians are supposed to be divided.
                    So why don't you read your own Bible and make up you own mind? That's what I did.
                    ----------------------------------------------
                    When the plain sense of Scripture make sense, seek no other sense.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      uncertainty of time of coming

                      Originally posted by Forgiven Alaskan View Post
                      ...there are so many conflicting sides to choose from! It just really annoys me. Not everyone can be right. I don't think we are Christians are supposed to be divided.
                      The Spirit designed that believers in each successive age should live in continued expectation of the Lord's coming, not knowing but that they should be among those found alive at His coming... Jamieson-Fausset-Brown
                      Mathew 24:44 "Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh."
                      What if there is a built-in unknowingness to this subject? People have different personalities that deal in different ways to an important problem that is impossible to know the answer to.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Lamplighter View Post
                        Scripture. All of these deal with a rapture event of some kind. Acts 8:39, 2 Corinthians 12:2, 12:4, 1 Thess 4:17, and Rev 12:5.
                        Lamplighter it was a joke...FA was frustrated and I was trying to lighten the mood a bit..

                        I don't think we are Christians are supposed to be divided
                        I don't know how much of this board you have read up on but we are divided on many issues...everything from OSAS, to baptism to speaking in tongues and on and on! But its really ok as long as it not about our core belief...Jesus!

                        Proverbs 27:17
                        As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend.


                        We learn alot from each other and 'sharpen' our knowledge in these discussions and debates...so its not all a bad thing.

                        Also if anyone wants to discuss one certain end time view point on here to learn more all they have to do is put that in the title...say 'pre-trib rapture believers I have a question'...something like that. And ask in your post for others to respect this and let the discussion just be on that view point only so it doesn't get derailed. Usually most members will respect that and not say anything if they have a different viewpoint.

                        Personally I think all view points should be studied.. but that is just me.

                        Its not a salvation issue by any means.

                        God bless
                        "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I enjoy discussing other viewpoints. It strenghtens mine and Paul's. (Sorry, I couldn't resist)!

                          Also, staying light.

                          Even in Paul's day, they had some who were divided or maybe misinformed. That's why he had to tell them the Day of the Lord had not come yet as others were trying to tell them.

                          I can see it now. But Paul, all we are going through...it must be the Day of the Lord just like the letters tell us.
                          Paul says...but the letters are not from me and the day has not come yet.
                          But Paul...
                          Then the believers discuss "who is right". Did Paul write the letters to us and were they really pretenders who wrote.... etc, etc.
                          Sometimes you have to use your imagination.

                          Might even add...But, Peter! You went into the house of a GENTILE and stayed with them! THAT HAD to have been a lively discussion!
                          I have a Blog. Please visit!

                          My Blog http://bibleforums.org/forum/blog.php?b=537

                          Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life!

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