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  • My two witnesses

    Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

    Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

    Isn't a witness, someone who has seen and heard first hand, and can give evidence.

    Matt 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

    Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we [+ 500 disciples] all are witnesses.

    1Co 15:5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
    1Co 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
    1Co 15:7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
    1Co 15:8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.


    Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
    Act 1:10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
    Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

    Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

    Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

    OK, this may be way far out, but could it be possible that these two witnesses, are the same two men in white apparel [Act 1:10]

    They seem to have followed Christ through out all time. Perhaps they have to drink the same cup of death.

  • #2
    The two witnesses, to my understanding, are the Spirit and the Bride ... Jesus and His Church.

    Comment


    • #3
      Most people believe that these two witnesses are Enoch and Elijah. These two have never died. Also thrown into possibility is Moses due to the signs and powers they will possess. One of my own consideration is the Apostle John. John chapter 21 closed with a what-if question by Jesus. What if he shall remain until I come again, what's it to you? Also John was told that he had to testify of the things he saw again.. What do you think?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by jponb View Post
        Most people believe that these two witnesses are Enoch and Elijah. These two have never died. Also thrown into possibility is Moses due to the signs and powers they will possess. One of my own consideration is the Apostle John. John chapter 21 closed with a what-if question by Jesus. What if he shall remain until I come again, what's it to you? Also John was told that he had to testify of the things he saw again.. What do you think?
        Submitting these for your consideration:

        Zechariah 4:11 Then I answered and said to him, “What are these two olive trees—at the right of the lampstand and at its left?” 12 And I further answered and said to him, “What are these two olive branches that drip into the receptacles of the two gold pipes from which the golden oil drains?” 13 Then he answered me and said, “Do you not know what these are?” And I said, “No, my lord.” 14 So he said, “These are the two anointed ones, who stand beside the Lord of the whole earth.”


        Jeremiah 25:10
        Moreover I will take from them the voice of mirth and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride, the sound of the millstones and the light of the lamp.

        Revelation 18:23
        The light of a lamp shall not shine in you anymore, and the voice of bridegroom and bride shall not be heard in you anymore. For your merchants were the great men of the earth, for by your sorcery all the nations were deceived.

        John 8:18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

        John 15:27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

        Romans 8:16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

        Revelation 11:3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”

        [b]Revelation 22:16 16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.” 17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely."

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Partaker of Christ View Post

          OK, this may be way far out, but could it be possible that these two witnesses, are the same two men in white apparel [Act 1:10]

          They seem to have followed Christ through out all time. Perhaps they have to drink the same cup of death.
          It is said that the two witnesses could be Enoch, Elijah, or Moses.

          Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

          Hebrew 9:27 shows us that a person has to die to be part of the judgment.
          Judgment could mean either reward or punishment. Since those above did not die, it is possible they need to come back to die in the flesh to receive the judgment of reward.
          Wise men
          still seek Him
          ---------------------------
          * 1 cross
          + 3 nails
          = 4 given
          ------------------

          It is best to;
          Build your belief around the bible
          Do Not build the bible around your belief !!!!
          You will then find yourself on solid ground.[/color]

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by DaniHansen View Post
            The two witnesses, to my understanding, are the Spirit and the Bride ... Jesus and His Church.
            Can you explain this for me Dani per your beliefs?

            7And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
            8And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

            How does this apply to Jesus?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by jponb View Post
              Can you explain this for me Dani per your beliefs?

              7And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
              8And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

              How does this apply to Jesus?
              It's a concept that I've only been considering lately, as before, I also thought of two individual flesh-and-blood persons, such as Elijah and Enoch, and so forth, as others have been pointing out (which does make sense in a way).

              Then I had a discussion with a fellow believer, and, in that, considering who Revelation is about (Jesus Christ), and the overall theme of the Bible (God and His people, Jesus and His Church), and how Revelation starts (Jesus appearing to the 7 churches) and ends (the New Jerusalem = the Church, and the call of the Spirit and the Bride saying "Come") ... it turned my thinking topsy-turvy and I'm seeing Revelation with a set of new eyes. And in light of the rest of Scripture, it makes a lot more sense to me than so many other interpretations.

              Consider the history of the Church and how She has really been treated and regarded by the world, the overt religious systems, and the powers that be ... in the "dark ages" for example, the Church of Jesus Christ was, for all intents and purposes, dead ... the "God is dead" movement and the Enlightenment and those today who would consider Christianity dead for all intents and purposes, and are looking forward with glee to her complete extinction ... not the outward church, but the true Church of Jesus Christ ... how sinners have been tormented by Spirit-filled preaching and have persecuted and sought to destroy the Church throughout the ages because they couldn't stand to hear about their sins ... etc ... etc ... "Egypt" being referred to many times in Scripture as a type of the world system ... and so forth.

              So, from where I sit, this is just as valid a consideration as, say, Enoch and Elijah or other such suggestions would be.

              Again, this is as I understand and think about it, not to knock anyone else's views.

              Comment


              • #8
                I just like exploring other's ideas as well.. Although we theorize about who it might be, let us not forget what we learned from John the Baptist. Many was expecting Elijah; but John had the anointing of Elijah. These two witnesses could simply have the anointing of Elijah or Moses and not be anyone from before. Thanks so much for responding.

                Comment


                • #9

                  Moses died before reaching the promised land.
                  Elijah was taken up to Heaven, but then somehow John was the Elijah and then was beheaded.
                  "And if you are willing to accept it, John himself is Elijah who was to come.
                  Matthew 11:14

                  The two witnesses will be killed.
                  But...
                  And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,
                  Hebrews 9:27
                  (Someone here – I can’t remember who – reminded me of this.)
                  Both have Moses and Elijah already died once, so neither will be the two witnesses.

                  I think the two men in white apparel were angels, but witnesses nevertheless - only for the heavenly record - not for mankind.
                  I don't think they can be killed - except in the lake of fire.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Also, as far how the killing of the witnesses applies to Jesus, consider this:

                    Matthew 25:40
                    And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

                    And this:

                    1 Corinthians 6:17
                    But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.

                    Just more food for thought ... because I really do believe that Jesus did mean exactly what He said.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DaniHansen View Post
                      Also, as far how the killing of the witnesses applies to Jesus, consider this:

                      Matthew 25:40
                      And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

                      And this:

                      1 Corinthians 6:17
                      But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.

                      Just more food for thought ... because I really do believe that Jesus did mean exactly what He said.
                      I very much agree!

                      and this:

                      Act 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
                      Act 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Richard H View Post
                        Moses died before reaching the promised land.
                        Elijah was taken up to Heaven, but then somehow John was the Elijah and then was beheaded.
                        "And if you are willing to accept it, John himself is Elijah who was to come.
                        Matthew 11:14

                        The two witnesses will be killed.
                        But...
                        And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,
                        Hebrews 9:27
                        (Someone here – I can’t remember who – reminded me of this.)
                        Both have Moses and Elijah already died once, so neither will be the two witnesses.

                        I think the two men in white apparel were angels, but witnesses nevertheless - only for the heavenly record - not for mankind.
                        I don't think they can be killed - except in the lake of fire.
                        Hi Richard!

                        The only problem that I may have with this is; 'die once'

                        There are (or seem to be) exceptions to the rule.

                        Lazarus, and 'we who are alive and remain'

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Partaker of Christ View Post
                          Hi Richard!

                          The only problem that I may have with this is; 'die once'

                          There are (or seem to be) exceptions to the rule.

                          Lazarus, and 'we who are alive and remain'
                          Hi Partaker.
                          Yup. It 'might' be a problem, but see my answer to Chad:
                          http://bibleforums.org/showthread.ph...68#post1827268


                          Richard

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Partaker of Christ View Post
                            Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

                            Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

                            Isn't a witness, someone who has seen and heard first hand, and can give evidence.

                            Matt 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

                            Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we [+ 500 disciples] all are witnesses.

                            1Co 15:5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
                            1Co 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
                            1Co 15:7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
                            1Co 15:8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.


                            Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
                            Act 1:10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
                            Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

                            Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

                            Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

                            OK, this may be way far out, but could it be possible that these two witnesses, are the same two men in white apparel [Act 1:10]

                            They seem to have followed Christ through out all time. Perhaps they have to drink the same cup of death.
                            Those two "men" were angels. Notice that they were dressed in white apparel. That is what hints at them being angels.

                            Luke 24
                            1Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. 2And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.
                            3And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.
                            4And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments:
                            5And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead?
                            6He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,

                            Here, we see angels being referred to as "two men". The word used for "men" there can just mean "male". Any angels mentioned in scripture always had male names.

                            We are given clues as to the identity of the two witnesses. They are called candlesticks. In Rev 1:20, candlesticks symbolized churches. I believe the two witnesses symbolize the witnessing church led by the power of the Holy Spirit.

                            Acts 1:8
                            But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Partaker of Christ View Post
                              There are (or seem to be) exceptions to the rule.

                              Lazarus, and 'we who are alive and remain'

                              'we who are alive and remain'
                              (the "rapture" after the first resurrection - 1 Thes 4:16,17)
                              are they who get to pass directly from life into everlasting life - without having to taste death.
                              'Sort of an exception, but God would not kill us - at that time, just so He can raise us.
                              'The time limit is up - sort of deal.

                              Richard

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