Here's a thought..what if we are not seeing the spiritual side of things

[moonglow]

You just reminded me of something I heard preached on the radio the other day. Which I find odd, since I can't ever seem to bring myself to listen much anymore to anyone, it's all bible as you say you had done in the past. And you are right BTW, too many people seeking an experience to the point that we get lost after we have been found.

Yep...exactly..I think we are so busy trying to have 'an experience' with God whether in church or elsewhere, its all we seek after...to get that connection, that high, that spiritual experience..whatever it may be called, that the focus becomes ourselves and not really Christ. I won't say I am not guilty of that! Who doesn't want attention from their Father in Heaven?

Anyway, this man said something about how we are the temple of God. The way he explained it, it really hit home. Our bodies really do not belong to us, our bodies are God's bodies, they belong to HIM! He just let's us use them (our bodies)is pretty much what I got out of it. And as such, we have absolutely no right whatsoever to sin against our bodies.
That got me thinking about how we sin in our hearts and physically every day without so much as thinking about how it must be affecting our Lord.

These bodies are HIS TEMPLE, He actually dwells in a temple that is made without hands, in a temple that we call our body.

Romans 12:1-2 is what comes to mind.

Exactly right...

DaniHansen made a good point too!

AliveinChristDave That was an interesting vision. God spoke to me that it was real.

One thing that struck me is the person you see as Christ could have been you.

The sinful church will persecute the bride. The true bride has been transformed into the image of Jesus Christ. That's why they hate it.
Just as they killed Christ they will kill those of us who are part of it.
When we're fully prepared we will be called up to the throne to be with Christ.

Marvel not that the world hates you.

True..and in real life that has happened to me in churches too! Rejected and torn down by other Christians...very painful. I guess when that happens it helps us understand better what Jesus went through in being rejected by many of His own. ...though He went through far worse. Thank you for the affirmation too on my vision.

I think in this the main focus of the attacks will always be mostly on Jesus simply because He is the center of our beliefs...our rock, our tree and we are just the branches. While a person can injure the branches, they can recover as long as their is the main tree to grow from...but if the trunk of the tree is destroyed, the branches would be too. Of course this trunk can never be destroyed. Well the bible says Jesus is the vine...but I hope you know what I mean! I am not awake yet this morning!

John 15

Jesus, the True Vine
“I am the true grapevine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch of mine that doesn’t produce fruit, and he prunes the branches that do bear fruit so they will produce even more. 3 You have already been pruned and purified by the message I have given you.
4Remain in me, and I will remain in you. For a branch cannot produce fruit if it is severed from the vine, and you cannot be fruitful unless you remain in me.

JesusReignsForever
Quote:

Originally Posted by moonglow
Maybe I am way off track here...maybe someone else will be guided by this and put the pieces together. After all we are made up of many parts of one body which is suppose to all work together.

I think you are spot on, everyone has there own edited version of the truth, people (christians) dont love each other anymore they tear each other down. No one wants to do it God's way anymore they have the own comfy ways to go about God's busines, no worries though because God is assembling his true church. Those who will worship him in spirit and in truth, those who will hold fast to his word and stand up for righteousness according to Gods very will.

Praise God!

Thanks! And yes you are very right on this..the gathering of the true church.

God bless

[Kudo Shinichi]

Very well said

It's true...that we kind of mislead ourselves looking at the wrong perspective...some how, we do see the wrong view...hope GOD will enable us to understand the spiritual side of it.

and looking too much for the material, literal concerning the end times? And this is why so many of us have such clashing views?

I am about to really sick my neck out here risking everyone thinking I am a loony toon...but I am going to do it anyway...

I am not one of the top smarter people on here in regards to studying the end times and getting so technological like some do on here...their threads are way over my head! But I believe God reaches us where we are..in a way we can understand individually...what we need to understand. Years ago I started working on truly worshiping God in the spirit as the bible says to do:

John 4:24
For God is Spirit, so those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth.

I do this alone ...not in any church by the way. I need things quiet. Anyway I did this for a long time and really enjoyed a much deeper connection with Him and in return He has truly blessed me by giving me visions and dreams.

I would worship Him in spirit and also of course bring my concerns and prayers to Him and I tell you for years I was frustrated because He would rarely address those concerns directly...but instead show me other things that seemed to not have a thing to do with my worries or concerns. I was truly baffled by this for a long time...it wasn't that He just blew me off or thought my concerned were too minor to address but that He was trying to show me the bigger picture, so to speak. My mind was on the earthly matters...He constantly showed me the spiritual instead. And alot of what I saw was well frankly over my head too but I didn't worry about it because I knew my spirit understood and that in time my mind would understand too.

While I am shown physical things in my dreams or visions...they all have a very deep symbolic meaning to them. I tend to rattle on (in case no one notice my post counts! ) and I am no different in His presences...I am constantly told to be quite and watch and listen! So I do...hard to image but I can be quiet...

The other day listening to the Christian radio station I heard a sermon that helped me to start understanding why Christ was using this approach with me. The story was about Joseph and what he went through...sold as a slave by his own brothers...all the trials he went through...being falsely accused and thrown in prison for years! And how he didn't focus on his situation but stayed focused on God. He didn't mull around with oh poor me I am in prison...sold as a slave...how much he missed his father...he didn't dwell on that at all but kept his eyes on God.

Everything I read on here is very literal...the worries and the concerns and how these things that might happened will affect us. If someone says something otherwise they might be told they are spiritualizing all the end times stuff. Maybe there is a medium there though?

For instance before Jesus was about to be arrested and killed and was talking to His disciples, Peter got all upset and didn't want it to happen.

Matthew 16:22-24

22 But Peter took him aside and began to reprimand him for saying such things. “Heaven forbid, Lord,” he said. “This will never happen to you!”

23 Jesus turned to Peter and said, “Get away from me, Satan! You are a dangerous trap to me. You are seeing things merely from a human point of view, not from God’s.”

While the cross was real...the meaning of it went much deeper then just the physical part of it...we all know that. Basic Christian knowledge.

What I see is people trying to understand the end times through a human point of view and possibly not from the point of view of God's. Not saying I have all the answers by any means! All I am shown is in the end Christ overcomes the dragon...(well a few other things too which I am trying to figure out)...

We all know in the end He wins...actually He has won! And maybe that is all we need to know...to focus on Him regardless of our situations...

God bless

[Richard H]

Yep...exactly..I think we are so busy trying to have 'an experience' with God whether in church or elsewhere, its all we seek after...to get that connection, that high, that spiritual experience..whatever it may be called, that the focus becomes ourselves and not really Christ. I won't say I am not guilty of that! Who doesn't want attention from their Father in Heaven?

...

That's why praise is so worthwhile.
It takes the focus off of us and put it onto the Father or onto Jesus.
It begins one on the journey of trying to discribe and magnify the Most High.

I've learned...
Rather than seeking an experience with God, seek to know and understand God more fully.
His awesome greatness. His amazing patience. His enduring love. His boundless grace and mercy.
His splendid holiness. His power which created all things on heaven and on the earth. ...

At first the effort may seem as a chore, but over time God responds when we seek only Him.

Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
Be miserable and mourn and weep; let your laughter be turned into mourning and your joy to gloom.
Humble yourselves in the presence of the Lord, and He will exalt you.
James 4:10

[moonglow]

That's why praise is so worthwhile.
It takes the focus off of us and put it onto the Father or onto Jesus.
It begins one on the journey of trying to discribe and magnify the Most High.

I've learned...
Rather than seeking an experience with God, seek to know and understand God more fully.
His awesome greatness. His amazing patience. His enduring love. His boundless grace and mercy.
His splendid holiness. His power which created all things on heaven and on the earth. ...

At first the effort may seem as a chore, but over time God responds when we seek only Him.

Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
Be miserable and mourn and weep; let your laughter be turned into mourning and your joy to gloom.
Humble yourselves in the presence of the Lord, and He will exalt you.
James 4:10

Praise is usually good...I say usually because what I am seeing in too many churches is people getting so caught up in it what they experience its more for their benefit then God's. Do you know what I mean? I don't hear much about people doing what that verse says and weeping over their sins...who would want to worship God and end up all upset and depressed because of their own short coming? They want the joy, that feeling of intense love, that connection to Him that only lifts them up and makes them feel good.


I am not explaining myself here well...sorry.

I guess the question is, is God only about feeling good about ourselves? Is that all we expect from Him...only good, joyful feelings?

God bless

[Dani H]

Moonglow, I think your vision is spot on.

The worst treatment I've been subjected to has not been from the world, it's been from those who call themselves "Christian" and do not obey God and use Him as a front to gain the trust of others and take advantage of them. The wounds of friends go far deeper than those of strangers. It's the apostate church that is our enemy, that is where all the false teachings are coming from. And it is the most insidious thing, because you can spot the sinners from a mile away. It takes discernment and complete reliance upon God to spot the counterfeit the false gospel from the real, and to separate the goat from the sheep. It takes an act of God, and only He can do it, and only He knows who is who.

There is a reason Jesus warned us of the wolves in sheep's clothing. We would not need to be warned if there was not a real danger. They look like sheep, smell like sheep, act like sheep, but it's all a veneer. They act like shepherds but they set themselves up to that position because their flesh is in control and so they desire to control and use and manipulate others instead of truly shepherding them. The true shepherd lays his life down for his sheep, and does not use the sheep for his own gain.

It's the apostate church that is driven by the antichrist. The world and other religions are not our problem. Why? Because we are of God and have overcome them. That is why Revelation starts with a glimpse into Jesus as the Judge, and then the letter to the chuches. "To him who overcomes" ... "to him who overcomes" ... "to him who overcomes." How do we overcome? By the blood of the Lamb, the word of our testimony and not loving our lives unto death. We are worried about the antichrist outside, and right there they all are, in the churches, preaching a false gospel, right under our noses, and we are blinded to it all because we have been diverted by false alarms and false teachings.

Why would Paul have to exhort us to make sure that we are in the faith, and to make our calling and election sure? Because he does not want us tripped up by assumption, but to come to the knowledge of the truth. You cannot assume that just because you've stepped inside a church building or listening to a sermon or reading some book by a teacher or preacher, that it is of God, and that you are safe. You must seek out Jesus for yourself, and get to know Him for yourself, and be so engrossed in the real that you are safe from the fake and can spot it from a mile away, and warn others.

Complacency and assumption are probably our worst enemies as believers, and we have to be real careful to not be ensnared by either.

We have to remember that it wasn't the Romans who plotted Jesus' death. It was the religious leaders and those who claimed "God" yet used Him as a front to control others.

Some things never change.

[Oregongrown]

Such an excellent read, thank you thank you sister!!!!!!! God bless you this day, your sister in Christ, denise

and looking too much for the material, literal concerning the end times? And this is why so many of us have such clashing views?

I am about to really sick my neck out here risking everyone thinking I am a loony toon...but I am going to do it anyway...

I am not one of the top smarter people on here in regards to studying the end times and getting so technological like some do on here...their threads are way over my head! But I believe God reaches us where we are..in a way we can understand individually...what we need to understand. Years ago I started working on truly worshiping God in the spirit as the bible says to do:

John 4:24
For God is Spirit, so those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth.

I do this alone ...not in any church by the way. I need things quiet. Anyway I did this for a long time and really enjoyed a much deeper connection with Him and in return He has truly blessed me by giving me visions and dreams.

I would worship Him in spirit and also of course bring my concerns and prayers to Him and I tell you for years I was frustrated because He would rarely address those concerns directly...but instead show me other things that seemed to not have a thing to do with my worries or concerns. I was truly baffled by this for a long time...it wasn't that He just blew me off or thought my concerned were too minor to address but that He was trying to show me the bigger picture, so to speak. My mind was on the earthly matters...He constantly showed me the spiritual instead. And alot of what I saw was well frankly over my head too but I didn't worry about it because I knew my spirit understood and that in time my mind would understand too.

While I am shown physical things in my dreams or visions...they all have a very deep symbolic meaning to them. I tend to rattle on (in case no one notice my post counts! ) and I am no different in His presences...I am constantly told to be quite and watch and listen! So I do...hard to image but I can be quiet...

The other day listening to the Christian radio station I heard a sermon that helped me to start understanding why Christ was using this approach with me. The story was about Joseph and what he went through...sold as a slave by his own brothers...all the trials he went through...being falsely accused and thrown in prison for years! And how he didn't focus on his situation but stayed focused on God. He didn't mull around with oh poor me I am in prison...sold as a slave...how much he missed his father...he didn't dwell on that at all but kept his eyes on God.

Everything I read on here is very literal...the worries and the concerns and how these things that might happened will affect us. If someone says something otherwise they might be told they are spiritualizing all the end times stuff. Maybe there is a medium there though?

For instance before Jesus was about to be arrested and killed and was talking to His disciples, Peter got all upset and didn't want it to happen.

Matthew 16:22-24

22 But Peter took him aside and began to reprimand him for saying such things. “Heaven forbid, Lord,” he said. “This will never happen to you!”

23 Jesus turned to Peter and said, “Get away from me, Satan! You are a dangerous trap to me. You are seeing things merely from a human point of view, not from God’s.”

While the cross was real...the meaning of it went much deeper then just the physical part of it...we all know that. Basic Christian knowledge.

What I see is people trying to understand the end times through a human point of view and possibly not from the point of view of God's. Not saying I have all the answers by any means! All I am shown is in the end Christ overcomes the dragon...(well a few other things too which I am trying to figure out)...

We all know in the end He wins...actually He has won! And maybe that is all we need to know...to focus on Him regardless of our situations...

God bless

[manichunter]

and looking too much for the material, literal concerning the end times? And this is why so many of us have such clashing views?

I am about to really sick my neck out here risking everyone thinking I am a loony toon...but I am going to do it anyway...

I am not one of the top smarter people on here in regards to studying the end times and getting so technological like some do on here...their threads are way over my head! But I believe God reaches us where we are..in a way we can understand individually...what we need to understand. Years ago I started working on truly worshiping God in the spirit as the bible says to do:

John 4:24
For God is Spirit, so those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth.

I do this alone ...not in any church by the way. I need things quiet. Anyway I did this for a long time and really enjoyed a much deeper connection with Him and in return He has truly blessed me by giving me visions and dreams.

I would worship Him in spirit and also of course bring my concerns and prayers to Him and I tell you for years I was frustrated because He would rarely address those concerns directly...but instead show me other things that seemed to not have a thing to do with my worries or concerns. I was truly baffled by this for a long time...it wasn't that He just blew me off or thought my concerned were too minor to address but that He was trying to show me the bigger picture, so to speak. My mind was on the earthly matters...He constantly showed me the spiritual instead. And alot of what I saw was well frankly over my head too but I didn't worry about it because I knew my spirit understood and that in time my mind would understand too.

While I am shown physical things in my dreams or visions...they all have a very deep symbolic meaning to them. I tend to rattle on (in case no one notice my post counts! ) and I am no different in His presences...I am constantly told to be quite and watch and listen! So I do...hard to image but I can be quiet...

The other day listening to the Christian radio station I heard a sermon that helped me to start understanding why Christ was using this approach with me. The story was about Joseph and what he went through...sold as a slave by his own brothers...all the trials he went through...being falsely accused and thrown in prison for years! And how he didn't focus on his situation but stayed focused on God. He didn't mull around with oh poor me I am in prison...sold as a slave...how much he missed his father...he didn't dwell on that at all but kept his eyes on God.

Everything I read on here is very literal...the worries and the concerns and how these things that might happened will affect us. If someone says something otherwise they might be told they are spiritualizing all the end times stuff. Maybe there is a medium there though?

For instance before Jesus was about to be arrested and killed and was talking to His disciples, Peter got all upset and didn't want it to happen.

Matthew 16:22-24

22 But Peter took him aside and began to reprimand him for saying such things. “Heaven forbid, Lord,” he said. “This will never happen to you!”

23 Jesus turned to Peter and said, “Get away from me, Satan! You are a dangerous trap to me. You are seeing things merely from a human point of view, not from God’s.”

While the cross was real...the meaning of it went much deeper then just the physical part of it...we all know that. Basic Christian knowledge.

What I see is people trying to understand the end times through a human point of view and possibly not from the point of view of God's. Not saying I have all the answers by any means! All I am shown is in the end Christ overcomes the dragon...(well a few other things too which I am trying to figure out)...

We all know in the end He wins...actually He has won! And maybe that is all we need to know...to focus on Him regardless of our situations...

God bless

GOD does appoint the kings of every nation. Why he appoints a king, we do not always know. He appointed Hitler just like He appointed G.W. Bush, and now appoints Obama. Why, I do not know. I would like to know if God told somebody so........... speak up prophet...... I know you are out there withholding the message........... don't be afraid of christian ridicule and criticism...... I want tell anybody (fingers crossed)............. LOL

[moonglow]

Moonglow, I think your vision is spot on.

The worst treatment I've been subjected to has not been from the world, it's been from those who call themselves "Christian" and do not obey God and use Him as a front to gain the trust of others and take advantage of them. The wounds of friends go far deeper than those of strangers. It's the apostate church that is our enemy, that is where all the false teachings are coming from. And it is the most insidious thing, because you can spot the sinners from a mile away. It takes discernment and complete reliance upon God to spot the counterfeit the false gospel from the real, and to separate the goat from the sheep. It takes an act of God, and only He can do it, and only He knows who is who.

There is a reason Jesus warned us of the wolves in sheep's clothing. We would not need to be warned if there was not a real danger. They look like sheep, smell like sheep, act like sheep, but it's all a veneer. They act like shepherds but they set themselves up to that position because their flesh is in control and so they desire to control and use and manipulate others instead of truly shepherding them. The true shepherd lays his life down for his sheep, and does not use the sheep for his own gain.

It's the apostate church that is driven by the antichrist. The world and other religions are not our problem. Why? Because we are of God and have overcome them. That is why Revelation starts with a glimpse into Jesus as the Judge, and then the letter to the chuches. "To him who overcomes" ... "to him who overcomes" ... "to him who overcomes." How do we overcome? By the blood of the Lamb, the word of our testimony and not loving our lives unto death. We are worried about the antichrist outside, and right there they all are, in the churches, preaching a false gospel, right under our noses, and we are blinded to it all because we have been diverted by false alarms and false teachings.

Why would Paul have to exhort us to make sure that we are in the faith, and to make our calling and election sure? Because he does not want us tripped up by assumption, but to come to the knowledge of the truth. You cannot assume that just because you've stepped inside a church building or listening to a sermon or reading some book by a teacher or preacher, that it is of God, and that you are safe. You must seek out Jesus for yourself, and get to know Him for yourself, and be so engrossed in the real that you are safe from the fake and can spot it from a mile away, and warn others.

Complacency and assumption are probably our worst enemies as believers, and we have to be real careful to not be ensnared by either.

We have to remember that it wasn't the Romans who plotted Jesus' death. It was the religious leaders and those who claimed "God" yet used Him as a front to control others.

Some things never change.

Excellent post! Very, very good. We need to be watching the church...and especially ourselves, instead of all of these other things.

Oregongrown Such an excellent read, thank you thank you sister!!!!!!! God bless you this day, your sister in Christ, denise

Thank...I just realized I had posted...I am about to sick my neck out here..instead of 'stick' my neck out... One of these years I will learn how to spell...

manichunter: GOD does appoint the kings of every nation. Why he appoints a king, we do not always know. He appointed Hitler just like He appointed G.W. Bush, and now appoints Obama. Why, I do not know. I would like to know if God told somebody so........... speak up prophet...... I know you are out there withholding the message........... don't be afraid of christian ridicule and criticism...... I want tell anybody (fingers crossed)............. LOL

Maybe you just have to wait and see... Have faith, trust God...

God bless

[Richard H]

Praise is usually good...I say usually because what I am seeing in too many churches is people getting so caught up in it what they experience its more for their benefit then God's. Do you know what I mean? I don't hear much about people doing what that verse says and weeping over their sins...who would want to worship God and end up all upset and depressed because of their own short coming? They want the joy, that feeling of intense love, that connection to Him that only lifts them up and makes them feel good.


I am not explaining myself here well...sorry.

I guess the question is, is God only about feeling good about ourselves? Is that all we expect from Him...only good, joyful feelings?

God bless

I tend to agree with you about some "worship services", moonglow.

I was speaking from my own experience in being alone with Him.
It's so personal and there is no way to put on a face for the croud.
I cannot hide myself from Him, and so before I can do anything - I must repent and also forgive if needed.

I don't rush into His presence - but quiet myself and begin thinking more about Him and less about myself.
There is a feeling of connection - but that is not my motivation.
And at this point, a watery eye is not uncommon - even saying grace.

I can't get that sort of intimacy in a church service.

Richard

[Saved7]

So which temple do you think the Bible speaks of where the antichrist sets itself up as god, wanting to be worshipped?

Could be either the human body, which would make him the AC who has descrated the temple simply by letting satan enter in and demanding worship in God's own temple. Or it could be that AND a literal physically built by hands of the jews who don't believe in Christ. Either way it goes, the temple HAS to be a body, a human body, it could also include a temple that shouldn't have been erected anyway; but being the unbelievers that they (the jews) are, it wouldn't surprise me to see a (desecrated temple) desecrated body enter into the jewish temple and desecrate that as well.

BTW, just wanted to make a note of wierdness here. While I was typing that last part about the descrated temple/body entering into the jewish temple, all the word's I typed just dissappeared from that point on, and I had to retype that last section!!!

Don't know if I gave you reps for this thread, but I just tried to and it said I had to spread the love first. Oh well, at least you know that you got reps in my heart for it.

[moonglow]

I tend to agree with you about some "worship services", moonglow.

I was speaking from my own experience in being alone with Him.
It's so personal and there is no way to put on a face for the croud.
I cannot hide myself from Him, and so before I can do anything - I must repent and also forgive if needed.

I don't rush into His presence - but quiet myself and begin thinking more about Him and less about myself.
There is a feeling of connection - but that is not my motivation.
And at this point, a watery eye is not uncommon - even saying grace.

I can't get that sort of intimacy in a church service.

Richard

Ok thanks for explaining...and I know exactly how you feel...

Its an intensely private thing...very personal..

God bless

[Indueseason]

What a great thread moonglow! Many wise words from everyone! I agree that too many people are seeking an experience with God over truly getting to know Him. I do understand why and have been there myself when I was a younger Christian. Like DaniHansen, I have experienced the deepest wounds from those who wear the name of Christ. Just this year I have been rejected by many believers, both in my church and online, just because my biblical understanding of some things changed. Christianity is just a badge for many who feel no need to try and live up to the name. It seems like there are many sinful men standing in the Holy Place!

Richard said
I've learned...
Rather than seeking an experience with God, seek to know and understand God more fully.
His awesome greatness. His amazing patience. His enduring love. His boundless grace and mercy.
His splendid holiness. His power which created all things on heaven and on the earth. ...

These are very wise and valuable words! When we seek to understand this truly awesome God we serve, we will experience the greatest of experiences!! No emotional feeling however good, can come close to fully realising just how holy, righteous, gracious, merciful, faithful, immense, mighty, longsuffering and loving our awesome God is!!!