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  • Lake of Fire & Second Death

    I'm wondering if any of you could read the below and give me your input? I'm trying to communicate what the Lake of Fire is, what the Second Death is & why it's called the Second Death, who is placed there, and when this judgment takes place. Thanks for your help.

    Hades

    Capernaum will descend to Hades (Mt. 11:23; Lu 10:15).

    The gates of Hades will not overpower the Church (Mt. 16:18).

    After the rich man died, he was taken to Hades where he was in torment (Lu 16:23).

    The soul of the Lord was not abandoned to Hades (Act 2:27).

    The Lord has the keys of death and Hades (Rev. 1:18).

    The sea, death, and Hades will give up the dead which are in them; and they will be judged according to their deeds (Rev. 20:13).

    Death and Hades will be thrown into the Lake of Fire (Rev. 20:14)

    Lake of Fire

    The beast and the false prophet, who deceives those who will receive the mark of the beast and worship his image during the end times, will be thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone (Rev. 19:20).

    The devil, who deceives the world, will be thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone. The beast, the false prophet, and the devil will be tormented day and night forever and ever (Rev. 20:10).

    Death and Hades will be thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire (Rev. 20:14).

    Anyone’s name not found written in the book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire (Rev. 20:15).

    The cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars will have their part in the lake of fire that burns with brimstone, which is the second death (Rev. 21:8).

    Second Death

    He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death (Rev. 2:11).

    The second death has no power over those who have part in the first resurrection (Rev. 20:6).

    From my understanding of Scripture, Hades is an actual place where torment can occur. One day, Hades will give up those who are in it to stand in judgment before the Lord (Rev. 20:11-13). Many call this the Great White Throne Judgment due to verse 11. Then, both death and Hades will be thrown into the Lake of Fire (Rev. 21:14). Additionally, anyone’s name not found written in the book of life will be thrown into the Lake of Fire. Those who have practiced sins such as unbelief, murder, immorality, sorcery, idolatry, lying, etc. will be thrown into the Lake of Fire. The Lake of Fire is called the Second Death (Rev. 20:14).

    Why is it called the “second death”? My guess is that one dies physically once and some will also die in the Lake of Fire a second time. Since all are resurrected to life once again, those who endure the Lake of Fire die again and experience a second death.

    “An hour is coming in which all who are in the tombs will hear his voice, and will come forth; those who did good to a resurrection of life, those who committed evil to a resurrection of judgment” (John 5:29)

    “…having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked” (Acts 24:15).

    My understanding is that some come to life just before the Millennial reign of Christ Jesus, and others come to life just after the Millennial reign…

    “The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed” (Rev. 20:5).

  • #2
    That has me a bit perplexed as well. Revelations is a very difficult book to learn from, it's too easy to go off into tangents and misinterpret what is written.

    So, we have the first death, that of our flesh, wouldn't you think the second would be the death of the soul as well? But if that's the case, a non existant soul would not experience anything at all in the lake of fire, for it has ceased to exist, yet clearly it does. I guess it would be death in the sense of being permanently seperated from God and being devoid of any knowledge of him in the process, essentially dying to all realities in a sense. Someone else should chime in on this one, it has me intrigued.
    2Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm trying to communicate what the Lake of Fire is, what the Second Death is & why it's called the Second Death, who is placed there, and when this judgment takes place. Thanks for your help.
      He who believes the gospel will not be hurt by the second death
      blessed are all those who take part in the first ressurection.

      Those who dont believe in him will suffer for their sins at the judgement, which is the second death, when he come again.
      The second death is eternal seperation from God

      For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you,
      7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire,
      8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
      9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
      10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day,
      and to be marveled at among all who have believed—for our testimony to you was believed
      And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by LookingUp View Post
        I'm wondering if any of you could read the below and give me your input? I'm trying to communicate what the Lake of Fire is, what the Second Death is & why it's called the Second Death, who is placed there, and when this judgment takes place. Thanks for your help.
        ...

        Why is it called the “second death”? My guess is that one dies physically once and some will also die in the Lake of Fire a second time. Since all are resurrected to life once again, those who endure the Lake of Fire die again and experience a second death.
        ...

        My understanding is that some come to life just before the Millennial reign of Christ Jesus, and others come to life just after the Millennial reign…

        “The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed” (Rev. 20:5).
        Hi LookingUp,
        I think the lake of fire is just plain total destruction - no more - kaput!
        Why?
        Because death and hell are also cast into the lake - as there will no longer be a use for them.
        'Just my humble opinion.

        I came to the same conclusion about "the rest of the dead" including Christians who were not martyed by the AC or those who survived until the resurrection/rapture.

        Also:
        Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, "Write, 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them."

        Also:
        Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.
        Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

        This is when the Book of Life is opened. One could safely presume that the names of the martrys are already in there.

        I know of one other person on this board who also thinks this, but I'm not tellin'

        Richard

        Comment


        • #5
          Jeff, that makes alot of sense, thank you.

          Richard, you have a good point, I guess there is a misconstruded perspective:

          The devil, who deceives the world, will be thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone. The beast, the false prophet, and the devil will be tormented day and night forever and ever (Rev. 20:10).

          It only mentions those few, not all of the wicked to be tormented forever with that section, which if the latter was stated including all that were cast down into it as being tormented forever, you would have to conclude they continued to exist on some level regardless so I can see where you are coming from with the wicked souls being non existent in the end.
          2Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Gentle Soul View Post
            Jeff, that makes alot of sense, thank you.

            Richard, you have a good point, I guess there is a misconstruded perspective:

            The devil, who deceives the world, will be thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone. The beast, the false prophet, and the devil will be tormented day and night forever and ever (Rev. 20:10).

            It only mentions those few, not all of the wicked to be tormented forever with that section, which if the latter was stated including all that were cast down into it as being tormented forever, you would have to conclude they continued to exist on some level regardless so I can see where you are coming from with the wicked souls being non existent in the end.
            Hi Gentle Soul,
            Rev 20:10 does say those you named will be tormented forever.

            Rev 14:11 says of those who receive the mark - the SMOKE of their torment rises forever, but that could just be after they're burned up.
            God's spiritual universe is a big place.

            I just don't see how death and hell can be cast in there too and not have it be total distruction.
            I suppose we won't really know until we can ask the Lord, Himself.

            In any case, Jeff's right: it will be eternal separation from God.

            Richard

            Comment


            • #7
              My question is though, what is the point of bothering to waste time to torture these souls forever, outside of it being a deturrent for us living today to heed from.

              I guess justice to some degree could be served within some lengthy period of time torturing them, but it seems like a total waste of energy to bother, why not just make them cease to exist and move on with things, just as you believe.

              I also can't help but wonder how terrible it must be for the Lord to have to deal with these individuals, having offered him of himself full and complete love, only to be utterly rejected. That must be painful for him, don't you think? Then to have to serve justice casting them down, and finally writing them off. Can you imagine a rebellious child that refused to listen to you, being forced to send them away forever. You still love them and the pain you experience would be unbearable. I don't think it's fair to him at all, he deserves only the absolute best from us at all times.
              2Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

              Comment


              • #8
                There is however, torment in hell for unbelievers - before judgement.
                I suppose without the Holy Spirit, they just automatically go there.

                Until the time to stand before the throne, there'll be no rest from the torment, so in that sense it is never-ending suffering there.

                I agree, it does break God's heart, that there is unbelief and those who have not really understood.
                Grace is extended to all, and we need to let them know about His love and mercy.

                2Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

                and of course:
                "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
                "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
                "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
                "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.
                "For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
                "But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."
                John 3:16-21

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks Richard, you are a really good apple!!!

                  I put what you quoted within my signature:

                  2Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.


                  Unfortunately, it takes 30n days being here for that feature to take effect. (: I completely understand why that policy is in place so I'll simply be patient about it.
                  2Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I just don't see how death and hell can be cast in there too and not have it be total distruction.
                    Death and hades are cast into hell, its the realm of the dead, death itself is destroyed.
                    and the last enemy to be destroyed is death, even the wicked dead get out of death, and are thrown alive into the lake....I shudder at the thought of being eternally seperated from God...they weep and gnash their teeth because he is Holy-righteous.
                    He offers freely the living water and we must drink to overflowing, recieving the Holy Spirit ministry of sanctification every day till Christ is formed in us.

                    You imagine this time coming to life-which it will, and everyone is standing before the throne of God--Every eye will see him, some will beat their breasts, cry in anguish, gnash their teeth, others will crying tears of relief ,as the lord Jesus has your name in the greatest book ever written.
                    May the Lord Jesus Christ recieve our very best and may he be praised forever , for creating the redeemed people of the most high.
                    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by jeffweeder View Post
                      Death and hades are cast into hell, its the realm of the dead, death itself is destroyed.
                      and the last enemy to be destroyed is death, even the wicked dead get out of death, and are thrown alive into the lake....I shudder at the thought of being eternally seperated from God...they weep and gnash their teeth because he is Holy-righteous.
                      He offers freely the living water and we must drink to overflowing, recieving the Holy Spirit ministry of sanctification every day till Christ is formed in us.

                      You imagine this time coming to life-which it will, and everyone is standing before the throne of God--Every eye will see him, some will beat their breasts, cry in anguish, gnash their teeth, others will crying tears of relief ,as the lord Jesus has your name in the greatest book ever written.
                      May the Lord Jesus Christ recieve our very best and may he be praised forever , for creating the redeemed people of the most high.
                      Now that you put it like THAT... I get it. YIKES!!!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Now that you put it like THAT... I get it. YIKES!!!
                        Looks like an awesome day, when we will witness the seperation of the sheep and the goats, the wheat and the tares, everyone placed into his final place. It would appear to be the most saddest moment in the history of the world, to witness this planet and all the wonderful beings on it ,coming to a complete end. Good news is that God wipes away those tears, and introduces you into a world that surpass your greatest dream.
                        Jesus has prepared this place for us, and he is about to recieve us, as he is coming soon.....we have never been this close
                        And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by jeffweeder View Post
                          The second death is eternal seperation from God



                          I agree, because if one is forever dead, one would be eternally seperated from God forever. But somehow, I don't feel this was exactly what you had in mind.

                          If not, could you show with Scriptures where death means something else rather than death, such as something that is dead but actually still alive?

                          The question is, what is it, if anything, that dies in the 2nd death? Something has to die, or it wouldn't be called the 2nd death. That conclusion appears logical to me. So, what is it that dies? If one is simply seperated from God for eternity, yet still alive and being tormented, then what was it that died the 2nd death?

                          I'm not trying to be difficult here. Just trying to be logical.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            One thing's for certain.
                            God is good and He knows what He's doing... even if we sometimes have poor sight of it.

                            If it wasn't for His grace extended to us through Jesus, we all deserve whatever He has deemed appropriate.

                            Yeshua is our mediator and I sort of think of Him as standing between myself and the great and holy YHWH - otherwise I could not bear it.
                            When the Father looks toward me, He sees His righteous Son, Jesus.

                            Richard

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I would say that the second death is a result of the judgement, at the ressurection of all the dead. It appears that the second death is only realised when the actual ressurection of the dead has happened.
                              People rise from the dead and then the judgement as the books were opened.

                              Jn 5
                              "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
                              29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
                              Blessed are the true gospel believers for the second death wont hurt them.
                              And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

                              Comment

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