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  • Need help with a study:the four horsemen always been riding..

    and if those line up with the seals and trumpets or not? Or are they unrelated?

    I know there are some that think we have always been in a tribulation..that its ongoing and will be ongoing until Christ returns.

    I had the strangest dream early this morning before my dog went and woke me up... Maybe God tickled his ear so I would wake up and remember the dream...who knows. But anyway a voice in my dream which I believe to have been Gods told me to look closer at the Black Plague and I saw the horses before that in my dream.

    I read a post on here once that this person believed they had been riding since Christ. The first horse IS Christ..the rider carries a bow but no arrow...setting out to conquer. Everyone thinks because the word conquer is used it must mean something bad.

    Revelation 6

    1And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

    2And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.


    Christ conquered sin and death for us.

    Romans 8:36-38
    36 Just as it is written,
    "(FOR YOUR SAKE WE ARE BEING PUT TO DEATH ALL DAY LONG;
    WE WERE CONSIDERED AS SHEEP TO BE SLAUGHTERED."

    37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.

    38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


    Anyway..I really don't want to get into a debate of who this rider is..been enough of those...lets just say through us..Christ is conquering sin one person at a time and this has been going on since He rose from the dead...the other horses are war, famine, disease..these have also been going on since Christ...even before Christ...but maybe now with a purpose?

    7 When the Lamb broke the fourth seal, I heard the fourth living being say, “Come!” 8 I looked up and saw a horse whose color was pale green. Its rider was named Death, and his companion was the Grave. These two were given authority over one-fourth of the earth, to kill with the sword and famine and disease and wild animals.


    So I spend some time reading up on the black plague:

    http://history.boisestate.edu/westciv/plague/08.shtml

    The Black Death
    Another Description

    From Agnolo di Tura, of Siena:

    "The mortality in Siena began in May. It was a cruel and horrible thing. . . . It seemed that almost everyone became stupefied seeing the pain. It is impossible for the human tongue to recount the awful truth. Indeed, one who did not see such horribleness can be called blessed. The victims died almost immediately. They would swell beneath the armpits and in the groin, and fall over while talking. Father abandoned child, wife husband, one brother another; for this illness seemed to strike through breath and sight. And so they died. None could be found to bury the dead for money or friendship. Members of a household brought their dead to a ditch as best they could, without priest, without divine offices. In many places in Siena great pits were dug and piled deep with the multitude of dead. And they died by the hundreds, both day and night, and all were thrown in those ditches and covered with earth. And as soon as those ditches were filled, more were dug. I, Agnolo di Tura . . . buried my five children with my own hands. . . . And so many died that all believed it was the end of the world."

    http://history.boisestate.edu/westciv/plague/09.shtml
    Official Reactions

    Contrary to what you might think, the reaction from public officials, and from many churchmen, was that this calamity was not the vengeance of God upon a sinful world but was a disease. Authorities took what steps they could to deal with it, but of course their effectiveness was limited.

    Cities were hardest hit and tried to take measures to control an epidemic no one understood. In Milan, to take one of the most successful examples, city officials immediately walled up houses found to have the plague, isolating the healthy in them along with the sick.

    Venice took sophisticated and stringent quarantine and health measures, including isolating all incoming ships on a separate island. But people died anyway, though fewer in Milan and Venice than in cities that took no such measures.

    http://history.boisestate.edu/westciv/plague/14.shtml

    at least a third of all the people in the world died.


    http://history.boisestate.edu/westciv/plague/15.shtml
    Population Loss

    Froissart's estimate of the population loss was about right, which is ironic because Froissart wildly exaggerated numbers in almost all his accounts. But the best of many revised estimates still put the overall population loss in Europe at about one- third.

    This bears re-stating. The plague came to Europe in the fall of 1347. By 1350 it had largely passed out of western Europe. In the space of two years, one out of every three people was dead. Nothing like that has happened before or since.
    http://history.boisestate.edu/westciv/plague/21.shtml
    Historical Timing of the Plague

    Worse, the overall climate was changing, with cooler and wetter weather creating lower crop yields even as the population was increasing. By the early 1300s we begin to hear of great famines.

    The Hundred Years' War added war to plague and famine.


    War was going on..dying by the sword literally then...then this disease moved in and people were literally dropping dead from it...also having terrible boils that burst...what does that remind you of?

    Revelation 16
    First Bowl: Loathsome Sores

    2 So the first went and poured out his bowl upon the earth, and a foul and loathsome sore came upon the men who had the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image.


    I realize this site only covers what happened in Europe so I need to dig further as many other countries were affected too. Anyway..thoughts? Additional information? anything?

    God bless
    "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

  • #2
    Originally posted by moonglow View Post
    and if those line up with the seals and trumpets or not? Or are they unrelated?

    I know there are some that think we have always been in a tribulation..that its ongoing and will be ongoing until Christ returns.

    I had the strangest dream early this morning before my dog went and woke me up... Maybe God tickled his ear so I would wake up and remember the dream...who knows. But anyway a voice in my dream which I believe to have been Gods told me to look closer at the Black Plague and I saw the horses before that in my dream.

    I read a post on here once that this person believed they had been riding since Christ. The first horse IS Christ..the rider carries a bow but no arrow...setting out to conquer. Everyone thinks because the word conquer is used it must mean something bad.

    Revelation 6

    1And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

    2And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.


    Christ conquered sin and death for us.

    Romans 8:36-38
    36 Just as it is written,
    "(FOR YOUR SAKE WE ARE BEING PUT TO DEATH ALL DAY LONG;
    WE WERE CONSIDERED AS SHEEP TO BE SLAUGHTERED."

    37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.

    38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


    Anyway..I really don't want to get into a debate of who this rider is..been enough of those...lets just say through us..Christ is conquering sin one person at a time and this has been going on since He rose from the dead...the other horses are war, famine, disease..these have also been going on since Christ...even before Christ...but maybe now with a purpose?

    7 When the Lamb broke the fourth seal, I heard the fourth living being say, “Come!” 8 I looked up and saw a horse whose color was pale green. Its rider was named Death, and his companion was the Grave. These two were given authority over one-fourth of the earth, to kill with the sword and famine and disease and wild animals.


    So I spend some time reading up on the black plague:

    http://history.boisestate.edu/westciv/plague/08.shtml

    The Black Death
    Another Description

    From Agnolo di Tura, of Siena:

    "The mortality in Siena began in May. It was a cruel and horrible thing. . . . It seemed that almost everyone became stupefied seeing the pain. It is impossible for the human tongue to recount the awful truth. Indeed, one who did not see such horribleness can be called blessed. The victims died almost immediately. They would swell beneath the armpits and in the groin, and fall over while talking. Father abandoned child, wife husband, one brother another; for this illness seemed to strike through breath and sight. And so they died. None could be found to bury the dead for money or friendship. Members of a household brought their dead to a ditch as best they could, without priest, without divine offices. In many places in Siena great pits were dug and piled deep with the multitude of dead. And they died by the hundreds, both day and night, and all were thrown in those ditches and covered with earth. And as soon as those ditches were filled, more were dug. I, Agnolo di Tura . . . buried my five children with my own hands. . . . And so many died that all believed it was the end of the world."

    http://history.boisestate.edu/westciv/plague/09.shtml
    Official Reactions

    Contrary to what you might think, the reaction from public officials, and from many churchmen, was that this calamity was not the vengeance of God upon a sinful world but was a disease. Authorities took what steps they could to deal with it, but of course their effectiveness was limited.

    Cities were hardest hit and tried to take measures to control an epidemic no one understood. In Milan, to take one of the most successful examples, city officials immediately walled up houses found to have the plague, isolating the healthy in them along with the sick.

    Venice took sophisticated and stringent quarantine and health measures, including isolating all incoming ships on a separate island. But people died anyway, though fewer in Milan and Venice than in cities that took no such measures.

    http://history.boisestate.edu/westciv/plague/14.shtml

    at least a third of all the people in the world died.


    http://history.boisestate.edu/westciv/plague/15.shtml
    Population Loss

    Froissart's estimate of the population loss was about right, which is ironic because Froissart wildly exaggerated numbers in almost all his accounts. But the best of many revised estimates still put the overall population loss in Europe at about one- third.

    This bears re-stating. The plague came to Europe in the fall of 1347. By 1350 it had largely passed out of western Europe. In the space of two years, one out of every three people was dead. Nothing like that has happened before or since.
    http://history.boisestate.edu/westciv/plague/21.shtml
    Historical Timing of the Plague

    Worse, the overall climate was changing, with cooler and wetter weather creating lower crop yields even as the population was increasing. By the early 1300s we begin to hear of great famines.

    The Hundred Years' War added war to plague and famine.


    War was going on..dying by the sword literally then...then this disease moved in and people were literally dropping dead from it...also having terrible boils that burst...what does that remind you of?

    Revelation 16
    First Bowl: Loathsome Sores

    2 So the first went and poured out his bowl upon the earth, and a foul and loathsome sore came upon the men who had the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image.


    I realize this site only covers what happened in Europe so I need to dig further as many other countries were affected too. Anyway..thoughts? Additional information? anything?

    God bless
    Is there a possibility there are two sets of horseman? One set which is does the bidding for God the other set for Satan? I say yes.

    The four horseman in Rev is a description of the final kingdom upon the earth ie Satan's which has not yet occurred. This parallels the description in chapter 13 as well.

    I see the "four" a key in relation to the four hourseman and the four beasts being one in the same. We do also see four beasts in each kingdom of good and evil.

    So four of them have been riding while there is still yet another four yet to ride.


    Mark

    Comment


    • #3
      If you consider that God speaks as to the rise and fall of nations, then note the voice heard in the third seal..... head next to Zechariah 6 and Deuteronomy 32:34,,,,,,,,,,the picture should become clearer of what is happening in Rev. 6.

      We are watching events in the nation of Iraq.


      Habakkuk chapter 2 also refers to a last days man that is as death and desires to be as hell. We can tell that this man will be Chaldean - or from the area of Iraq - as Habakkuk is writing about a vision that was shown to him.
      In chapter 1,,,,the Chaldeans are to rise - and in chapter 2 Habakkuk begins to speak as to how he will go get on the tower so as to warn the people,,,,,but

      God told him to write it down - at the end it shall speak.
      http://prophecyinsights.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
        Is there a possibility there are two sets of horseman? One set which is does the bidding for God the other set for Satan? I say yes.

        The four horseman in Rev is a description of the final kingdom upon the earth ie Satan's which has not yet occurred. This parallels the description in chapter 13 as well.

        I see the "four" a key in relation to the four hourseman and the four beasts being one in the same. We do also see four beasts in each kingdom of good and evil.

        So four of them have been riding while there is still yet another four yet to ride.


        Mark
        can you post the related verses to what you are saying here please? thanks...

        vinsight4u8 If you consider that God speaks as to the rise and fall of nations, then note the voice heard in the third seal..... head next to Zechariah 6 and Deuteronomy 32:34,,,,,,,,,,the picture should become clearer of what is happening in Rev. 6.

        We are watching events in the nation of Iraq.


        Habakkuk chapter 2 also refers to a last days man that is as death and desires to be as hell. We can tell that this man will be Chaldean - or from the area of Iraq - as Habakkuk is writing about a vision that was shown to him.
        In chapter 1,,,,the Chaldeans are to rise - and in chapter 2 Habakkuk begins to speak as to how he will go get on the tower so as to warn the people,,,,,but

        God told him to write it down - at the end it shall speak.
        Can you post these verse please so I don't have to read whole chapters to find what you are talking about? You can use this bible website to look them up then copy and paste: http://www.biblegateway.com/

        Here watch this video..it helps explain better what I am talking about then I am:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgFwh...eature=relatedRevelation 5:5 - 6:8 (Seals 1-4)

        When we read the OT we see how first God would warn the Jews to turn away from their sins and back to Him...they usually ignored Him and then He sent other nations to conquer them...war came, death, famine, disease..it seemed to be the only things that got their attention (of course some of this they brought on themselves by their own behavior..natural Consequences you could say)

        I think that possibly the horses have been riding in different parts of the world to get those people's attention...to get them to repent and to turn to God.

        Its an ongoing process..

        Have you ever noticed its the pagan nations that suffer worse from wars, famine and disease and natural disasters? Those nations closest to God aren't plagued as much...

        Of course no place is without these things simply because the world itself is affected by sin...and that won't be corrected until Christ returns.

        God bless
        "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

        Comment


        • #5
          My personal view on the four horsemen is that it is a lesson about joining what might seem like a just cause, for example the Crusades. It is a warning to not get caught up in it because what looks great, at the beginning, turns into something very ugly.
          Last edited by Ethnikos; Nov 5th 2008, 07:15 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Moonglow,
            It is my opinion that many have assigned the horses and their riders positions that they are not to have, and by doing so, missing the interpretation of those signs altogether. They have said that all of the horsemen are evil, and thus assigned their interperetations accordingly, making the symbolic color white evil.

            The truth of the matter is this, likened to the birth pang signs in Matthew Mark and Luke, the seals are simply the beginning signs of the end times. Unlike the Birth pangs, IMHO, these signs do not have the limitations of being shown in a single generation. These signs are to show us that when certain unexplanable things come to pass, like a global shortage of food or a global expansion of violence in places that are suppose to be peaceful, that we would know that there is a corresponding sign that we can attribute these things to. (For instance, global warming as the sign that the third horseman is unsealed and the school massacres and the increase in wars as the sign of the second seal being unsealed.) These signs are neither good or evil, but signs that God has chosen to show us.

            For instance, the rider on the white horse. If the churches end up rising and overcoming the evils of this world, like causing the most liberal state in the union to reverse it's stand on abominable marriages, then this is the work of the white horseman, since the white horseman is the sign of the church conquering and seeking to conquer across the world today.

            IN truth, the signs of the seven seals are not to be uncorporated into anything other than what the original Author intended them to be, the beginning signs in which we can understand the Lord is truly coming soon.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by moonglow View Post
              When we read the OT we see how first God would warn the Jews to turn away from their sins and back to Him...they usually ignored Him and then He sent other nations to conquer them...war came, death, famine, disease..it seemed to be the only things that got their attention (of course some of this they brought on themselves by their own behavior..natural Consequences you could say)

              I think that possibly the horses have been riding in different parts of the world to get those people's attention...to get them to repent and to turn to God.

              Its an ongoing process..

              Have you ever noticed its the pagan nations that suffer worse from wars, famine and disease and natural disasters? Those nations closest to God aren't plagued as much...

              Of course no place is without these things simply because the world itself is affected by sin...and that won't be corrected until Christ returns.

              God bless
              Bingo. Looks like you nailed this one here Moonglow. My work here is done

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by third hero View Post
                Bingo. Looks like you nailed this one here Moonglow. My work here is done
                Does that mean you are going to retire from the end times forum now?


                God bless
                "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

                Comment


                • #9
                  yup. it's time for me to go sip lemonade in florida wityh everyone else who retire from this forum.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by third hero View Post
                    yup. it's time for me to go sip lemonade in florida wityh everyone else who retire from this forum.
                    hey no fair! How are the rest of us left here suppose to learn anything??!


                    you won't leave anyway...


                    "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      nope, this place is my addiction, even if I get all huffy and puffy, I can never truly stay gone for long...

                      Ans so,

                      Here we go again!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by third hero View Post
                        nope, this place is my addiction, even if I get all huffy and puffy, I can never truly stay gone for long...

                        Ans so,

                        Here we go again!
                        You need to join ET Anonymous...
                        "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hey, thanks for the Bible search site!
                          What I want to put forth is that Habakkuk was given a vision of the Chaldeans coming in chapter 1. In chapter 2 - Habakkuk went to get on the tower to watch this prophecy come to pass in his day, but God told him to write it down - at the end it shall speak.

                          Habakkuk chapter 1 -

                          1The burden which Habakkuk the prophet did see.
                          2O LORD, how long shall I cry, and thou wilt not hear! even cry out unto thee of violence, and thou wilt not save!
                          3Why dost thou shew me iniquity, and cause me to behold grievance? for spoiling and violence are before me: and there are that raise up strife and contention.
                          4Therefore the law is slacked, and judgment doth never go forth: for the wicked doth compass about the righteous; therefore wrong judgment proceedeth.
                          5Behold ye among the heathen, and regard, and wonder marvelously: for I will work a work in your days which ye will not believe, though it be told you. 6For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, which shall march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwellingplaces that are not their's.

                          "did see"
                          "will work a work"
                          "will not believe"
                          "I raise up the Chaldeans"

                          Chapter 2
                          "I will stand upon my watch, and set me upon the tower, and will watch....
                          v 2 "And the answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that he may run that readeth it."
                          v3 "For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak...

                          So the work a work vision of the Chaldeans coming that was shown to Habakkuk in chapter 1 is an endtime vision.

                          Acts 13:41
                          "...I work a work in your days...shall in no wise believe..."
                          V40
                          "...lest that come..."


                          This passage in Acts 13 helps us know that Habakkuk's vision of the coming Chaldeans still had not yet happened.

                          What did Habakkuk see?

                          Habakkuk 1:6
                          "...will rasie up the Chaldeans that bitter and hasty nation..."
                          V17 "...not spare continually to slay the nations?"

                          Habakkuk 2
                          V4 "...his soul is lifted up and is not upright in him...
                          V5 "...he transgresseth by wine...a proud man, neither keepeth at home,...desire as hell, and is as death...

                          A wicked Chaldean man is coming - he will be as death and desires to be as hell
                          =
                          the same names as the 4th seal rider of Revelation.

                          Habakkuk told us that this man will gather unto him all nations.

                          So what are the first three seals for?
                          God is showing us what to watch for in that Chaldean nation - as keys to know when it is almost time for the man of sin in Iraq.

                          One thing throwing people off is in the second seal - peace taken from the earth - does not have to mean the entire world.
                          It can mean a country.
                          Strong's
                          1093 ge (ghay);
                          contracted from a primary word; soil; by extension a region, or the solid part or the whole of the terrene globe (including the occupants in each application):
                          KJV-- country, earth (-ly), ground, land, world.
                          http://prophecyinsights.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Consider that only the fourth seal rider was named in Revelation 6. He is the man of sin. He is the last rider to be unsealed - because he is the ac out of Iraq-the last ruler coming from Iraq.

                            Consider that the horses in Zechariah chapter 6 follow a chapter 5 prophecy as to the land of Shinar.
                            Iraq

                            Shinar - the area between the Tigris and the Euphrates (rivers)
                            http://prophecyinsights.com

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Using the OT as where to gather up some more clues as to wicked men that can scatter Israel - would show us that he would need more than one weapon to use.

                              such as - scatter Israel time comes when -
                              the wicked man has
                              a sword
                              hunger
                              pestilence
                              beasts

                              Not - just a sword or just hunger.

                              Only the 4th seal rider has several weapons.
                              During the 4th seal is when the seven trumpets will begin.
                              Just before the 4th seal or so - the 144,000 will be sealed by the seven angels.
                              http://prophecyinsights.com

                              Comment

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