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End-Times Debate: "One or Two Resurrections / Judgments?"

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  • #61
    Re: End-Times Debate: "One or Two Resurrections / Judgments?"

    Originally posted by wpm View Post
    Who do you think that I think we have replaced? You are the one hurling the charges.
    You said, "We (the redeemed Church) ) are the children of Abraham - the children of promise. The children of the flesh are not that (Rom 9.6-7)."

    So you believe the Church has "replaced" Israel, and that Israel no longer has a place in God's prophetic program? That is not a "hurled" charge. That is precisely what you said!

    Comment


    • #62
      Re: End-Times Debate: "One or Two Resurrections / Judgments?"

      Originally posted by randyk View Post
      You said, "We (the redeemed Church) ) are the children of Abraham - the children of promise. The children of the flesh are not that (Rom 9.6-7)."

      So you believe the Church has "replaced" Israel, and that Israel no longer has a place in God's prophetic program? That is not a "hurled" charge. That is precisely what you said!
      I never said we have replaced Israel. That is a false charge. We have been enjoined to true Israel (Rom 11). Along with natural believing jews we have become members of the citizenship of Israel through the blood of Jesus (Eph 2). We ARE the children of promise. Read Gal 4. We ARE the circumcision, & true Jews. Read Rom 2.25-29 and Phil 3.3.

      Israel after the flesh is of their father Satan. Salvation has never been by race, but by grace. God's people have always been those of faith. That is why we have been grafted into the Israeli elect olive tree. There is only one elect people - that is us. Jesus cursed theocratic Israel 2000 years ago, abolished the old covenant and superceded the shadow and type. Your desire to return to Jewish supremacy and the old covenant arrangement is misplaced & erroneous. It will never happen. It is time for you to move into the NT where your arguments are refuted & forbidden.

      You have no answer for Rom 9.6-7. You just dismiss it. You don't seem to like the NT. All you do is renunce the NT & fail to embrace it. Sad! Your rebuttal is: "but the OT says." You can try and take us regressive back to a failed, temporal earthly covenant but God has us enter a true, perfect and eternal one that will never be replaced or coexist with the alleged Premil one in the future.
      "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).

      http://www.evangelicaltruth.com/

      WPM

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: End-Times Debate: "One or Two Resurrections / Judgments?"

        Originally posted by wpm View Post
        I never said we have replaced Israel. That is a false charge. We have been enjoined to true Israel (Rom 11). Along with natural believing jews we have become members of the citizenship of Israel through the blood of Jesus (Eph 2). We ARE the children of promise. Read Gal 4. We ARE the circumcision, & true Jews. Read Rom 2.25-29 and Phil 3.3.
        A false charge? You might want to investigate what "replacement theology" is before you want to object to that? Amils tend to follow that line of thinking, which is why it has been such a common way of looking at things down through the ages. Get back to me when you really know what I'm talking about...

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        • #64
          Re: End-Times Debate: "One or Two Resurrections / Judgments?"

          Originally posted by randyk View Post
          A false charge? You might want to investigate what "replacement theology" is before you want to object to that? Amils tend to follow that line of thinking, which is why it has been such a common way of looking at things down through the ages. Get back to me when you really know what I'm talking about...
          You are not getting it are you? You are not just throwing this slur at me, but millions of believers over the centuries, including your beloved Martin Luther and fellow Lutherans. It is a false charge. Amils do NOT believe we have replaced anyone. We have joined true Israel, elect Israel. The rest were blinded.

          Where is your NT Evidence? Nowhere. Not in Romans 11 or anywhere else.
          "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).

          http://www.evangelicaltruth.com/

          WPM

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: End-Times Debate: "One or Two Resurrections / Judgments?"

            Originally posted by wpm View Post
            You are not getting it are you? You are not just throwing this slur at me, but millions of believers over the centuries, including your beloved Martin Luther and fellow Lutherans. It is a false charge. Amils do NOT believe we have replaced anyone. We have joined true Israel, elect Israel. The rest were blinded.

            Where is your NT Evidence? Nowhere. Not in Romans 11 or anywhere else.
            I'm not getting what? I'm not getting what "replacement theology" is? You seem to be the one who not only doesn't know what it is, but you also don't seem to realize you are one of those who believe in it! Yes, Lutherans probably believe in it. However, I'm not a Lutheran anymore. Actually, lots of Christians of various kinds believe in it and have believed in it down through the centuries. But if you don't realize that you are one of them, why should I discuss it with you?

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: End-Times Debate: "One or Two Resurrections / Judgments?"

              Originally posted by randyk View Post
              I'm not getting what? I'm not getting what "replacement theology" is? You seem to be the one who not only doesn't know what it is, but you also don't seem to realize you are one of those who believe in it! Yes, Lutherans probably believe in it. However, I'm not a Lutheran anymore. Actually, lots of Christians of various kinds believe in it and have believed in it down through the centuries. But if you don't realize that you are one of them, why should I discuss it with you?
              Instead of throwing your false charges, answer the question. Who do you think that we think we have replaced?
              "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).

              http://www.evangelicaltruth.com/

              WPM

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: End-Times Debate: "One or Two Resurrections / Judgments?"

                Originally posted by randyk View Post
                I'm not getting what? I'm not getting what "replacement theology" is? You seem to be the one who not only doesn't know what it is, but you also don't seem to realize you are one of those who believe in it! Yes, Lutherans probably believe in it. However, I'm not a Lutheran anymore. Actually, lots of Christians of various kinds believe in it and have believed in it down through the centuries. But if you don't realize that you are one of them, why should I discuss it with you?
                What is vague in the OT is clear in the NT - the fuller revelation. Where is your NT Evidence? Nowhere. Not in Romans 11 or anywhere else.
                "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).

                http://www.evangelicaltruth.com/

                WPM

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: End-Times Debate: "One or Two Resurrections / Judgments?"

                  Originally posted by wpm View Post
                  Instead of throwing your false charges, answer the question. Who do you think that I think we have replaced?
                  If you don't even know what "replacement theology" is you have no business accusing me or demanding anything of me. You need to figure out what I'm talking about first. However, I have posted a new thread entitled "replacement theology." Perhaps you will join me there? If you want to know more about "replacement theology," type that into a search. It is also called Supersessionism. It is perhaps what Christians have popularly believed down through the centuries, most probably due to the turn towards allegorial interpretation. Origen and Augustine contributed towards the allegorization of Scriptures, and what we ended up with was a loss of belief in God's literal promises regarding the physical nation Israel in her physical land inheritance. We ended up with the allegorization of the Millennium, the allegorization of physical Israel, and the replacement of what you call "fleshly Israel" with the spiritual Church. So yes, you are a "replacement theology" adherent, and you should be proud of it!

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: End-Times Debate: "One or Two Resurrections / Judgments?"

                    Originally posted by randyk View Post
                    If you don't even know what "replacement theology" is you have no business accusing me or demanding anything of me. You need to figure out what I'm talking about first. However, I have posted a new thread entitled "replacement theology." Perhaps you will join me there? If you want to know more about "replacement theology," type that into a search. It is also called Supersessionism. It is perhaps what Christians have popularly believed down through the centuries, most probably due to the turn towards allegorial interpretation. Origen and Augustine contributed towards the allegorization of Scriptures, and what we ended up with was a loss of belief in God's literal promises regarding the physical nation Israel in her physical land inheritance. We ended up with the allegorization of the Millennium, the allegorization of physical Israel, and the replacement of what you call "fleshly Israel" with the spiritual Church. So yes, you are a "replacement theology" adherent, and you should be proud of it!
                    We have not replaced anyone. You just don't get this. Your teachers have taught you wrong. God's people are one. We (the redeemed Church) are the children of Abraham - the children of promise. The children of the flesh are not that (Rom 9.6-7).
                    "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).

                    http://www.evangelicaltruth.com/

                    WPM

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: End-Times Debate: "One or Two Resurrections / Judgments?"

                      Originally posted by wpm View Post
                      We have not replaced anyone. You just don't get this. Your teachers have taught you wrong. God's people are one. We (the redeemed Church) are the children of Abraham - the children of promise. The children of the flesh are not that (Rom 9.6-7).
                      wpm, please look up "replacement theology" on the internet! Perhaps you have already done so, but if so, I'm not sure why you think I don't "get it?" What I'm saying does not have to be viewed as an accusation. If you are an advocate of this position, why not own it?

                      I'm not sure "replacement theology" is meant to be a derisive term. It is just a belief system that many Christians have held to down through the centuries. It is probably much more popular than my own position. Until you recognize that we just don't have a conversation going....

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: End-Times Debate: "One or Two Resurrections / Judgments?"

                        Originally posted by randyk View Post
                        wpm, please look up "replacement theology" on the internet! Perhaps you have already done so, but if so, I'm not sure why you think I don't "get it?" What I'm saying does not have to be viewed as an accusation. If you are an advocate of this position, why not own it?

                        I'm not sure "replacement theology" is meant to be a derisive term. It is just a belief system that many Christians have held to down through the centuries. It is probably much more popular than my own position. Until you recognize that we just don't have a conversation going....
                        I am fully aware.

                        We have not replaced natural Israel. Natural Israel is still natural Israel.
                        "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).

                        http://www.evangelicaltruth.com/

                        WPM

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: End-Times Debate: "One or Two Resurrections / Judgments?"

                          There is a thread started about Replacement Theology. Please continue this discussion there instead of across multiple threads.

                          Thank you.
                          Day by day
                          Oh Dear Lord
                          Three things I pray
                          To see thee more clearly
                          Love thee more dearly
                          Follow thee more nearly
                          Day by day

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: End-Times Debate: "One or Two Resurrections / Judgments?"

                            Originally posted by BrianW View Post
                            There is a thread started about Replacement Theology. Please continue this discussion there instead of across multiple threads.

                            Thank you.
                            I agree. My apologies.
                            "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).

                            http://www.evangelicaltruth.com/

                            WPM

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: End-Times Debate: "One or Two Resurrections / Judgments?"

                              No need to apologize brother! That was a "please" post not a demand.

                              I just think it could be a very beneficial discussion for all who participate and read it and would hate to see any of the pertinent points missed by any who haven't been following the discussions between the two of you.
                              Day by day
                              Oh Dear Lord
                              Three things I pray
                              To see thee more clearly
                              Love thee more dearly
                              Follow thee more nearly
                              Day by day

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: End-Times Debate: "One or Two Resurrections / Judgments?"

                                I love these threads even though i Feel as if WPM, cared more about defending his position then the actual word. I also felt some of his attacks were unwarranted but overall i must say I support the beginners view. I Also want to say I HIGHLY RESPECT YOUR RESTRAINT and POISE (the beginners just in case that was unclear lol) . You seemed to have come from a more genuine place and I believe that you would have actually conceded some points if a logical and biblically supported argument was put forth (was really hoping WPM would produce some). For the sheer number of verses and scriptures you put forth i applaud you. Especially since you didn't even need to use 1 Corinthians 15 i mean wow amazing i kinda want to see you do it just for kicks. I'm actually asking you to do it here Pleasee i'll read it even if no one else will. Overall even if you feel like you made no dent with WPM, cuz idk how anyone could make one if you couldn't i certainly had no shot! I'm sure everyone who comes along and reads this will be blessed THANKS BROTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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