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  • The Rapture- One Taken , The Other Left

    Matthew 24:37-42 - "But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
    "For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the Ark."
    "And did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be."
    "Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left."
    "Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left."
    "Watch therefore for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming."

    In this passage Jesus talks about the rapture of the Church. Luke also documented this but added something.

    Luke 17:34-36 - "I tell you in that night there will be two men in one bed:The one will be taken and the other will be left."
    " Two women will be grinding together:The one will be taken and the other left."
    "Two men will be in the field:the one take and the other left."

    Now someone with an "alternative lifestyle" would say well see that first sentence proves that how we live is ok. Not the case the word "Men" was not in the greek it was added at a later time. So in the greek it just reads as two instead of two men.

    Obviously Jesus in these passages is speaking about The Rapture of the Church which is in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18- "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus will shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words."


    Some people believe the Lord will actually descend down to earth when we come but it says he calls us up to the clouds to MEET Him in the air. Now if He came down to earth and we went up we would break the scripture where it says "And thus will shall always be with the Lord."

    The Bible says that there will be mockers and scoffers of His return.
    2 Peter 3:3- "Knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts.
    Hebrews 4:11- Let us therefore enter into that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience."

    DO NOT Fall into unbelief or you will not be Raptured.

    Now as we examine the passages above in Matthew & Luke pay attention to the words Jesus used.

    Lets look at it

    We don't grind in America but they still do in the arabian villages in the middleeast and in Israel.
    Two Grinding
    Two in the field
    Two in bed

    You see we really should praise the Lord here because what this reveals is that Jesus knew about Time zones way back when that weren't discovered by man until much later. Because He has said there will be two working but also two sleeping. You see back in Jesus day when it was 6 o clock it was 5 or 6 everywhere. But in Syria & North Africa it was sunset.

    Don't overlook these things study His word very diligently and pay attention it will reveal new things to you.

    And another thing is that there's only certain seasons where you would be grinding at a mill or harvesting in a field.

    That gives you a clue on the possible timing of His return.
    They would only work in a field at Barley Harvest with is passover. Wheat Harvest which is Pentecost, and the final harvest which is Tabernacles those are the 3 main feasts which everybody MUST attend.
    Spring, Summer, or Fall

    Now let's examine
    One Taken & The Other Left

    Taken in Greek means to receive close to or receive near.

    In John 14:2-3 Jesus says the following "In My Fathers house are many mansions; if it were not so I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you."
    "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am there you may be also."

    Left in Greek means to forsake or to leave. So the left are the ones forsaken by God.

    Our Lord is coming.

  • #2
    Originally posted by wocleader View Post
    Matthew 24:37-42 - "But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
    "For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the Ark."
    "And did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be."
    "Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left."
    "Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left."
    "Watch therefore for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming."

    In this passage Jesus talks about the rapture of the Church. Luke also documented this but added something.

    Luke 17:34-36 - "I tell you in that night there will be two men in one bed:The one will be taken and the other will be left."
    " Two women will be grinding together:The one will be taken and the other left."
    "Two men will be in the field:the one take and the other left."

    Now someone with an "alternative lifestyle" would say well see that first sentence proves that how we live is ok. Not the case the word "Men" was not in the greek it was added at a later time. So in the greek it just reads as two instead of two men.

    Obviously Jesus in these passages is speaking about The Rapture of the Church which is in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18- "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus will shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words."


    Some people believe the Lord will actually descend down to earth when we come but it says he calls us up to the clouds to MEET Him in the air. Now if He came down to earth and we went up we would break the scripture where it says "And thus will shall always be with the Lord."

    The Bible says that there will be mockers and scoffers of His return.
    2 Peter 3:3- "Knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts.
    Hebrews 4:11- Let us therefore enter into that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience."

    DO NOT Fall into unbelief or you will not be Raptured.

    Now as we examine the passages above in Matthew & Luke pay attention to the words Jesus used.

    Lets look at it

    We don't grind in America but they still do in the arabian villages in the middleeast and in Israel.
    Two Grinding
    Two in the field
    Two in bed

    You see we really should praise the Lord here because what this reveals is that Jesus knew about Time zones way back when that weren't discovered by man until much later. Because He has said there will be two working but also two sleeping. You see back in Jesus day when it was 6 o clock it was 5 or 6 everywhere. But in Syria & North Africa it was sunset.

    Don't overlook these things study His word very diligently and pay attention it will reveal new things to you.

    And another thing is that there's only certain seasons where you would be grinding at a mill or harvesting in a field.

    That gives you a clue on the possible timing of His return.
    They would only work in a field at Barley Harvest with is passover. Wheat Harvest which is Pentecost, and the final harvest which is Tabernacles those are the 3 main feasts which everybody MUST attend.
    Spring, Summer, or Fall

    Now let's examine
    One Taken & The Other Left

    Taken in Greek means to receive close to or receive near.

    In John 14:2-3 Jesus says the following "In My Fathers house are many mansions; if it were not so I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you."
    "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am there you may be also."

    Left in Greek means to forsake or to leave. So the left are the ones forsaken by God.

    Our Lord is coming.
    Nice post. I do find this subject interesting and as a Christian I also belive in a pre-trib Rapture. However what I have always found more interesting is the idea that it seems more imortant to spend more time and energy on end times stuff than keeping your eyes on /Jesus in your day to day life.

    For example the odds have always been that a much greater chance for you to meet Jesus will happen in your own lifetime by your own death as opposed to a Rapture even happing in your lifetime. Lets face the reality here we all die and most fie within 80 years or so at best. So from day one of birth you have at most been only 80 years away from seeing Jesus and many much much less than that. So for myself it seems like prioritys needs to be really looked at . Specualtion about the end times can be fun and exciting but when you die your going to be at that same place anyhow and you can die so quickly so that the event I put my money on the event called death which is always very close to us. Of course we are told by Gods word to always look and watch for the return of our Lord Jesus Christ an dthta return can really happen by your death.
    God bless
    Randy
    And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Comment


    • #3
      the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be."
      Who was taken away by the flood? Who was "left behind"?

      I'm sure I am rehashing an old debate, but I don't stop in this forum often. I saw the heading on the Christ Life front page and couldn't help myself.

      "Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn"

      A very certain and specific chronological order here.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hmmm...

        Well if He takes me before the appointed time then I will be happy to go
        God Bless

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by wocleader View Post
          Well if He takes me before the appointed time then I will be happy to go
          God Bless
          Yesme too! one way or the other we are all taken out

          God bless
          Randy
          And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
          For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thank you Jesus!!! WE are awaiting YOUR return, but if we should die first, we may see you sooner!!!!! Whichever comes first, Lord, I can't wait to fall on my face before you!!!!
            John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that HE gave HIS only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in HIM should not perish, but have eternal life.


            My testimony: http://bibleforums.org/forum/showthread.php?t=137007

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by wocleader View Post

              Some people believe the Lord will actually descend down to earth when we come but it says he calls us up to the clouds to MEET Him in the air. Now if He came down to earth and we went up we would break the scripture where it says "And thus will shall always be with the Lord."

              .
              I believe that on the Day of The Lord we will be raptured (at the first resurrection) and meet the Lord in the air. From that point on we will always be with the Lord. After meeting Jesus in the air there will be the remaining wrath upon the unbelievers on the earth , and then the procession of Jesus with us will land in Jerusalem , for the millenium. In this way we meet him in the air and then a short while later we all come down to earth without breaking any scripture.

              Originally posted by wocleader View Post
              And another thing is that there's only certain seasons where you would be grinding at a mill or harvesting in a field.

              That gives you a clue on the possible timing of His return.
              They would only work in a field at Barley Harvest with is passover. Wheat Harvest which is Pentecost, and the final harvest which is Tabernacles those are the 3 main feasts which everybody MUST attend.
              Spring, Summer, or Fall

              .
              I was enjoying reading your logic here , but just reminding you that us in the Southern Hemisphere have our seasons the opposite to the northern hemisphere.
              Last edited by DurbanDude; Nov 16th 2008, 05:05 AM. Reason: spelling

              Comment


              • #8
                The parable recorded in both Matthew 24:37-42 and Luke 17:34-36 isn't even trying to support a rapture (of any sort) at all. Both Matthew 24:36-51 and Luke 17:20-37 record the entire parable, not just the portions cited in the original post. Jesus is making a distinction between those caught unaware by a future unexpected outpouring of God's wrath and those expecting it who are spared. The ones 'taken' are the wicked who will experience wrath; the ones 'left' are those spared from it. That's why Jesus compares that period to the time of the flood. Those not expecting it and scoffing at its arrival were ultimately destroyed by it when it eventually came, while Noah believed it. Thus, he built the ark in preparation for it, which kept both he and his family safe through the entire deluge while the rest of creation outside was destroyed by it. Jesus is talking about the sudden arrival of God's wrath upon sinful humanity, saying that some will be living in light of it and ultimately be spared from judgment, while others not expecting its arrival will be swept away by it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I've really tried to understand this Rapture docterine. I really cannot. I've truely tried. I'm sorry if this post offends some for my disagreement!

                  I firmly believe that those scriptures are stating that while one is in the field doing their jobs, as Christians, the other is off seeing the anti christ.

                  Jesus also said he who is last shall be first.

                  So that would indicate that Satan - or the anti-christ that comes first would in fact be the last one. Yet, the last one to come - Jesus is in fact First.

                  I think the anti christ will come first and so many people will be decieved by him they will leave their work in the field to go see him while the others who know that while they are in their flesh body's - the Lord Christ has not come back yet.

                  Also, In the new testiment Jesus says he would not under any circumstances change even an aota of the Law. So if he would not change the law, would he change what Ezekial says?

                  Ezekiel 13:20-Wherefore, thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

                  The word ‘hunt’ in Hebrew means, "lie in wait; to catch men." (Strong’s #6678)
                  Ezekiel 13:21-Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver My People out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

                  The word ‘hand’ in Hebrew means, "the open one indicating power." (Strong’s #3027)

                  Ezekiel 13:22-Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life.

                  The word ‘wicked’ in Hebrew means, "to be wrong." (Strong’s #7563 & #7561)

                  Just my reasoning
                  The kingdom of God is just like any other kingdom. It must be fought for. - Thomas Becket

                  I don't want to save people. That's not my job. My job is to feed them.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by scourge39 View Post
                    The parable recorded in both Matthew 24:37-42 and Luke 17:34-36 isn't even trying to support a rapture (of any sort) at all. Both Matthew 24:36-51 and Luke 17:20-37 record the entire parable, not just the portions cited in the original post. Jesus is making a distinction between those caught unaware by a future unexpected outpouring of God's wrath and those expecting it who are spared. The ones 'taken' are the wicked who will experience wrath; the ones 'left' are those spared from it. That's why Jesus compares that period to the time of the flood. Those not expecting it and scoffing at its arrival were ultimately destroyed by it when it eventually came, while Noah believed it. Thus, he built the ark in preparation for it, which kept both he and his family safe through the entire deluge while the rest of creation outside was destroyed by it. Jesus is talking about the sudden arrival of God's wrath upon sinful humanity, saying that some will be living in light of it and ultimately be spared from judgment, while others not expecting its arrival will be swept away by it.
                    This is a nice post! I guess "accurate" is a better word for it! Anyway, thanks!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      There's a problem with your theory scourge

                      Left in the greek means to forsake why would God forsake us?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Matthew and Luke when read together,
                        show who is taken, and where they are taken.

                        Luke explains most clearly, using the literary technique of parallel-redundancy to make his point, who is taken, and where they are taken.

                        Notice by simply restating the verses, and colorizing the parallel-redundancy, it is easy to see who is taken and where they are taken.

                        Matthew 24:37 "But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, And knew not until

                        the flood came, and took them all away;

                        so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the
                        one shall be taken
                        , and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the
                        one shall be taken, and the other left."



                        Luke 21:26-37
                        "Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man. They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and

                        the flood came and destroyed them all. Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot—they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom,

                        fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all— so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed. On that day, let the one who is on the housetop, with his goods in the house, not come down to take them away, and likewise let the one who is in the field not turn back.

                        Remember Lot’s wife
                        . Whoever seeks to preserve his life

                        will lose it
                        , but whoever loses his life will keep it. I tell you, in that night there will be two in one bed.

                        One will be taken
                        and the other left. There will be two women grinding together.

                        One will be taken and the other left." And they said to him, "Where, Lord?" He said to them,

                        "Where the corpse is, there the vultures will gather."





                        Those who are taken, are taken to destruction.
                        The ones who remain, are the faithful ones.

                        Matthew 13:30 "Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."


                        Matthew 13:49 "the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. "

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
                          I believe that on the Day of The Lord we will be raptured (at the first resurrection) and meet the Lord in the air. From that point on we will always be with the Lord. After meeting Jesus in the air there will be the remaining wrath upon the unbelievers on the earth , and then the procession of Jesus with us will land in Jerusalem , for the millenium. In this way we meet him in the air and then a short while later we all come down to earth without breaking any scripture.



                          I was enjoying reading your logic here , but just reminding you that us in the Southern Hemisphere have our seasons the opposite to the northern hemisphere.
                          So you'll get to go either six months earlier or six months later, maybe!

                          Or is the Rapture limited to physical Palestine...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by wocleader View Post
                            Left in the greek means to forsake why would God forsake us?
                            Paralambano ('taken') can mean either 'taken' to safety or 'taken' in judgment. Although Matthew's account doesn't specify its intended meaning, the surrounding context demands that it refers to being taken in judgment. All of the current Matthew and Luke commentators carefully point this out. R.T. France, who has written the most current Matthew commentary shows convincingly that the Dispensational view is being imposed on the text.

                            aphiemi means 'left alone,' not in the sense of abandonment, but rather that of being undisturbed. Meaning is determined by the larger context of a passage. Simple word studies usually result in 'root' fallacies, whereby the root of a given word is believed to always remain the same regardless of context. However, the meaning of some Greek words change substantially given the larger context of their use.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              wocleader: The Bible says that there will be mockers and scoffers of His return.
                              2 Peter 3:3- "Knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts.
                              Hebrews 4:11- Let us therefore enter into that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience."

                              DO NOT Fall into unbelief or you will not be Raptured.
                              Are you saying we have to believe in the rapture or God will not rapture us?

                              I seriously hope that isn't what you are saying. Those verses you posted aren't in content and trying to use them to say you have to believe in the rapture to be raptured, it just wrong teaching! The only commandments Jesus gave us to follow have nothing to do with such things...there is no 'condition' on our salvation either...you make it sound as if God will simply abandon us for not believing in a theory and there is nothing in the bible that says this at all.

                              Lets look at the 2 Peter verse you posted IN content...seeing it in content gives us a clearer picture of what was meant:

                              2 Peter 3
                              God’s Promise Is Not Slack
                              1 Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), 2 that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior, 3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.”


                              These 'scoffers' weren't Christians to start with...they scoffed at everything having to do with God. All of us believe Jesus will come again...the Second Coming...but not all of us believe in a rapture...so please don't call those of us of that don't believe in this idea, scoffers...you are calling us unsaved, nonbelievers and that just isn't true. We are all saved on here.

                              On the Hebrews passage is about losing faith in God...in Christ..it hasn't nothing to do with unbelief in a end times idea:

                              Hebrews 4
                              The Promise of Rest
                              1 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:

                              “ So I swore in My wrath,

                              ‘ They shall not enter My rest,’”

                              although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; 5 and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.”
                              6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:


                              “ Today, if you will hear His voice,
                              Do not harden your hearts.”


                              Lastly consider this parable:

                              Matthew 13

                              36 Then, leaving the crowds outside, Jesus went into the house. His disciples said, “Please explain to us the story of the weeds in the field.”

                              37 Jesus replied, “The Son of Man is the farmer who plants the good seed. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed represents the people of the Kingdom. The weeds are the people who belong to the evil one. 39 The enemy who planted the weeds among the wheat is the devil. The harvest is the end of the world, and the harvesters are the angels.

                              40 “Just as the weeds are sorted out and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the world. 41 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will remove from his Kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 And the angels will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in their Father’s Kingdom. Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand!


                              If you and others want to believe there will be a rapture that is fine...I doubt anyone could change your mind, but don't condemn those of us that don't.

                              God bless
                              "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

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