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  • 211 reasons to question Premillennialism Part 2

    Since it's getting pretty close to the 1,000 post limit I'm going to go ahead and start a new one now.

    Link to part 1 here:http://bibleforums.org/showthread.ph...emillennialism
    "Some people's idea of free speech is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone says anything back that is an outrage."

  • #2
    Re: 211 reasons to question Premillennialism Part 2

    Saying the 1st thread has reached its max and Brian has so gracious started a follow-on thread, I hope it is an opportunity to get us back on subject. Remember this thread is about addressing the questions furnished. I will repeat my opening post again as a reminder to the matter at hand:

    The 5 biggest weaknesses of Premil in my opinion are (1) the detail Premils attribute to Revelation 20 compared to what the inspired text actually says are poles apart, (2) the fact that their interpretation of Revelation 20 contradicts numerous explicit climactic Scripture, (3) they are always explaining away the clear and explicit New Testament Scripture (the fuller revelation) by the shadow, type and vaguer Old Testament, (4) they are often spiritualizing the literal passages and literalizing the spiritual passages, and (5) the severe lack of corroboration Premils have for all their fundamental beliefs. Whether you look at the binding of Satan, the release of Satan 1,000 years after the second coming, the restoration of animal sacrifices in an alleged future millennium, two different judgment days, two different resurrection days, the rebellion of the wicked at the end of the millennium, these enjoy no other support in Scripture. I struggle with this, because the only way to authenticate and understand any doctrine is interpret it with other Scripture. Since abandoning the doctrine I have been building a catalog of holes that I have found. These are questions that I feel expose the fragility of the doctrine and are grounds for Premils to question it.

    1. When does the book of Revelation say the new heavens and a new earth are ushered in – before or after the millennium?

    2. When does the book of Revelation say “the holy city, new Jerusalem” arrives – before or after the millennium?

    3. When is corruption completely and eternally removed from the earth?

    4. Where does Scripture locate “the last days” – before or after the Second Coming?

    5. Where does Scripture locate “the last day” – at or after the Second Coming?

    6. What does "last" mean?

    7. What does "the end" mean?

    8. What Scripture, if any, do you consider definitely corroborates the Premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20 that there will be a literal 1,000 years+ of ongoing sin, death and rebellion after the Second Coming?

    9. Where exactly in Revelation 20 or anywhere else does it say that Christ will reign on earth for 1,000 years?

    10. What will Christ be doing during that 1,000 years? Please list clear Scriptures.

    11. Where is Christ in Satan's “little season”?

    12. Despite the paradise-like conditions, the glorious and victorious unchallenged rule of Christ with a “rod of iron” and the so-called submissiveness of the nations that Premils attribute to their millennial kingdom, surely we are looking at the biggest and most-amazing religious turn-around in history in the Premil scenario? After all, at the first sight of Satan the nations turn en-mass against Christ and to Satan as “the sand of the sea”?

    13. Surely the supposed allegiance that Premils attribute to the nations during the millennium is all feigned and forced?

    14. How would you describe someone who pretends to be genuine in their worship to Christ but it later transpires is really insincere, and actually a Satan worshiper at that?

    15. If someone refuses to obey Christ are they enlightened or deceived?

    16. If someone spends a thousand years submitting to Christ and then at the drop of a hat switches allegiance immediately to Satan, are they enlightened or deceived?

    17. Surely the Eden-like perfection that Premils hunger for is only met in the new heavens and new earth (Revelation 21-22)?

    18. Surely the eternal defeat of all sin, death, the wicked and corruption is closely connected with the arrival of the new heavens and new earth? Surely this best fits with the sacred text, the holy character of God and His desire for mankind?

    19. The link between the creature and creation is unquestionable. When man fell then all creation felt the consequences and fell with him. Why would it be any different at the end? Surely, when man is finally glorified at Christ’s Coming then all creation will similarly immediately and eternally be freed from the “bondage of corruption”?

    20. Revelation 20:3 speaks of the curtailment of Satan that “he should deceive the nations (ethnos – Gentiles) no more.” How does God normally dispel the spiritual deception that blinds men?

    21. What Scripture, if any, do you consider definitely corroborates the Premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20 that Satan will be bound for a time-span of 1000 years after the Second Advent then released for a "little season" to deceive the nations and then destroyed?

    22. Are Satan and his minions physical or spiritual beings?

    23. Must Satan therefore be physically or spiritually bound during the millennium?

    24. Why can Revelation 20 not simply refer to a spiritual state of restraint?

    25. 2 Peter 2:4 shows demons bound in the abyss. Is this before or after the Second Coming?

    26. Jude 6 shows demons bound in the abyss. Is this before or after the Second Coming?

    27. Revelation 9:1-3 shows demons bound in the abyss. Is this before or after the Second Coming (or 7th trumpet)?

    28. Revelation 9:1-3 shows Satan (Abaddon / Apollyon) in the abyss. Is this before or after the Second Coming (or 7th trumpet)?

    29. What was God referring to when (speaking to the serpent in the Garden of Eden) He predicted, “I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel”? Is this to be interpreted literally or figurative?

    30. Is the dragon in Revelation 20:2 a literal physical dragon?

    31. Is the serpent in Revelation 20:2 a literal physical serpent?

    32. Is the key mentioned in Revelation 20:1 a literal metallic door key?

    33. Is the chain mentioned in Revelation 20:1 a literal metal chain?

    34. Do you believe demons need to be detained in literal metal chains in order to be restrained?

    35. How can the abyss refer to an actual physical pit with a physical seal on it, when Satan is a spiritual being?

    36. Does imprisonment mean immobility?

    37. Does imprisonment mean a prisoner cannot do harm?

    38. Can a vicious dog on a chain walk or roam about?

    39. Can a vicious dog on a chain bite anyone that gets close to it?

    40. Can a prisoner in a prison walk or roam about?

    41. Does a prisoner have the ability to kill, steal, destroy, rape and embezzle in prison?

    42. Do you believe Satan has 7 literal heads and 7 literal necks (Rev 12:3)?

    43. Do you believe Satan has 10 literal horns poking out of his 7 literal heads (Rev 12:3)?

    44. What Scripture, if any, do you consider definitely corroborates the Premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20 that there is an uprising of the wicked in their billions to surround Jesus and the saints 1,000 yrs after Jesus destroys the wicked?

    45. What Scripture (including Revelation 20) do you consider teaches there are two distinct future judgement days (that will see all mankind stand before Christ to give account for their lives) separated by a literal 1000 years?

    46. Revelation 11:15-18 confirms that “the time of the dead, that they should be judged" is at the last trumpet and Revelation 20:10 confirms that “the dead were judged” at the “the great white throne” (which takes place 10 chapters later). Surely this is strong evidence that Revelation is not chronological and that the final trumpet and the great white throne are one and the same judgment?

    47. What Scripture, if any, do you consider definitely corroborates the Premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20 that there are two distinct physical resurrection days (the first for the righteous, the second for the wicked) separated by a literal 1000 years?

    48. Where in Scripture does it mention "resurrection days" (plural)?

    49. Where in Scripture does it mention "judgement days" (plural)?

    50. Is there a physical resurrection in the Bible prior to the believers’ physical resurrection at the Second Coming that might justly be deemed the “first resurrection”? If so, what is it?

    51. The Greek word for "first" (as in first resurrection) is protos. It is a contracted superlative meaning foremost (in time, place, order and/or importance). So which is the "first" (or protos) resurrection?

    52. Which is the foremost resurrectionin time?

    53. Which is the foremost resurrection in place?

    54. Which is the foremost resurrection in order?

    55. Which is the foremost resurrection in importance?

    56. Who is "the first resurrection" in Acts 26:23?

    57. Who is "the firstborn from the dead" in Colossians 1:18?

    58. Who is "the firstfruits of them that slept" in 1 Corinthians 15:20?

    59. Who is "first begotten of the dead" in Revelation 1:5?

    60. Is there a resurrection in the New Testament, pertaining to the believer, which precedes the physical resurrection, which releases a man from the punishment of the second death (eternal wrath)? If so, what is it?

    61. Premils insist that the first resurrection is the physical resurrection of the elect at the Coming of Christ and that it is the means by which men avoid “the second death” (eternal wrath) at the Coming of the Lord. If the Premillennialist is correct then surely all those that “are alive and remain” at the Coming of the Lord are not qualified to escape “the second death” as they don’t partake in a physical resurrection because they don’t die, but are simply changed in a moment and caught up to meet Christ in the air? Those that “are alive and remain” partake in a ‘catching away’ not a resurrection.

    62. If the first resurrection is supposed to be the physical resurrection of believers at the Second Advent, and this is consequently the actual means by which one escapes the second death (eternal wrath), how can people be saved (and consequently avoid the second death) in a supposed future millennium?

    63. Will there be souls saved during a future millennium after the Second Coming?

    64. If so, will they be saved in the same way as we are (please give New Testament Scripture)?

    65. Since sin will be present during the Premil 1000 years period, upon what principle will men be saved?

    66. When will the millennial mortal saints that die before the end of Satan’s little season be resurrected (please show Scripture)?

    67. How many resurrections are there from, and including, the Second Coming onward? Could you please list them with their supposed scriptural references?

    68. So when are all the millennial mortal converts glorified? Please give Scripture. Surely there needs to be another glorification of the "the mortal saints" after Satan's little season to make them fit and prepared for the eternal state? After all, “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption” (1 Corinthians 15:50).

    69. Premil teaches that there will be righteous converts still in their fallen mortal bodies during their millennium who are distinguished from the immortals. Surely Premils are going to have to create another "rapture" (catching away) for the "mortal believers" that get saved during their millennium in order to allow then to enter the glorified state and eternal bliss? After all, where does all the saints in the millennium go when the earth flees away (Revelation 20:11) or passes away (Revelation 21:1-5)? Surely they are not going to pass away when the earth passes away?

    70. Is this not problematic for many Postrib Premils who vehemently reject the idea of two future Comings and raptures?

    71. Is there anywhere in Scripture that you can corroborate the Premillennial notion that the camp of the saints will be transferred into the new heaven and the new earth at the end of a 1000 years time-span and the Gog/Magog assault?

    72. If so, is there anywhere in Scripture that describes how that great transfer will actually be performed? Surely this is one of the great events in scriptural history!!!

    73. What Scripture, if any, do you consider definitely corroborates the Premillennial view that there is going to be an actual measurable time span of a ‘literal 1000 years’ in the future in which there is going to be complete and absolute peace? After all, Revelation 20 doesn’t mention peace!

    74. What Scripture, if any (including Revelation 20), do you consider definitely corroborates the Premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20 that Christ is coming to natural Israel for a time-span of 1000 years after the Second Advent?

    75. What Scripture, if any (including Acts 1), do you consider definitely describes the Church being brought back to old Jerusalem at the Second Coming, rather than the New Jerusalem?

    76. Where does Revelation 20 mention the wicked attacking Jerusalem at the end? Surely there is a big difference between the “camp of the saints” and physical Jerusalem?

    77. Where in the New Testament does it mention the wicked attacking “Jerusalem” (by name) at the end?

    78. Do you believe the first 7 months of your glorious perfect pristine Eden-like millennium will involve the gruesome and disturbing spectacle of sweeping up countless corpses (Ezekiel 39:9-14)?

    79. Will the glorified saints be forced to participate in this gruesome and disturbing effort as morticians and grave-diggers for the first 7 months of their glorified life”

    80. Where does it say this in Revelation 20? Where does it say this in the New Testament?

    81. Do you believe the first 7 years of your glorious perfect pristine Eden-like millennium will involve the cities of Israel going forth burning the weapons, shields, bucklers, bows and arrows, handstaves, and spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years of the enemy (Ezekiel 39:9)?

    82. How can Premils reconcile their conflicting “proof-texts” that in one breath “every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles" (Zechariah 14:16-17) and “the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD” (Isaiah 56:6-7) yet in the next breath at the exact same time because Jerusalem is a "holy" place, a prohibition is placed on all Gentiles that "there shall no strangers pass through her any more" (Joel 3:17) and “No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel” (Ezekiel 44:9)?

    83. If Zechariah 14 and Joel 3 relate to the Second Coming (as Premils argue) then we have another contradiction: how can we have Egypt still existing in Zechariah 14:17-19 when Joel 3 clearly demonstrates that “Egypt shall be a desolation” (v19)? How does Premil magically raise this rebellious nation?

    84. Where does Zechariah 14 mention the thousand years, 2 resurrections / judgments, an earthly reign of Christ, glorified saints, the binding of Satan and the release of Satan and an uprising 1,000 years later?

    85. Could any Premil please do a detailed comparison between Zechariah 14 and Revelation 20 for me?

    86. How can all rebellion be ended and Christ be exercising sovereign control, enjoying absolute authority and receiving complete submission when countless millennial inhabitants are feigning their compliance to Christ and hankering after Satan in their billions (“as the sand of the sea”)?

    87. How can all rebellion be ended and Christ be exercising unchallenged sovereign control, enjoying absolute authority and receiving complete submission when countless are refusing to attend the mandatory feast of tabernacles in Jerusalem every year (Zechariah 14:16-19)? After all, nations are openly being judged with destructive plagues and droughts as a result of their rejection of the voice of God.

    88. What Scripture, if any, do you consider definitely describes the Church’s lengthy stopover in earthly Jerusalem for 1,000 years after the Second Coming?

    89. What is the Church’s function for these 1,000 years? (Please give New Testament Scripture)

    90. Will the dead in Christ, which are now at home in heaven, be once again subjected to all the corruption of this life?

    91. Even though they have been glorified, will the resurrected righteous once again witness death, sin, sickness, sinners, the world, war and Satan around them in the millennium, after previously gaining absolute victory over them upon death?

    92. Where in Revelation 20 do we find any teaching on a post-Second Coming earth that experiences “a 1000 year period of perfecting and freeing from the curse,” “gradual restoration,” “progressive renewal” or “a process of renovation” that Premils speak of?

    93. Are there unsaved in your supposed future millennium?

    94. Is there anywhere in the New Testament (including Romans 11) that teaches that the natural Jews will return to natural Israel and take her ancient borders in order to fulfil any Old Testament prophecy? If so where?

    95. Is there anywhere in the New Testament that teaches that Christ will sit upon the natural throne of David in earthly Jerusalem after the Second Coming? If so where?

    96. Is there anywhere in the New Testament that it teaches that the physical temple in earthly Jerusalem will be re-built for a third time? If so where?

    97. What is the purpose of rebuilding the destroyed physical temple (which is expressly an imperfect type and figure), when the Lord has now replaced it with a new and living spiritual building – the Church – where the elect of God worship Christ in Spirit and in truth forever (John 4:21-24)?

    98. Is it not a confused and disorderly picture with a long-destroyed Jewish temple being promoted when the eternal temple “not made with hands” is standing on the new earth in all His “power and glory”?

    99. Why would Christ oversee the hypocritical temple worship of millions of phony religious devotees travelling to Jerusalem every yr to offer their forced worship when He knows they are all going to turn their back on Him at the drop of a hat when Satan appears?

    100. Surely the millennial bliss that Premils like to portray, vividly symbolized by the lion and lamb having unparalleled and historic sweet communion, is brutally torn apart by the sight and sound of the temple slaughter trucks pulling up and trailing the lambs away to get their throats slit for sin offerings in Jerusalem?

    101. Where in Revelation 20 does it say the curse will be lifted?

    102. Where in Revelation 20 does it say the old covenant arrangement will be restored?

    103. Where in Revelation 20 does it say the Temple will be rebuilt?

    104. Where in Revelation 20 do we find restored animal sacrifices?

    105. Where in Revelation 20 does it say the Levitical priesthood will be restored?

    106. How can the Premillennialist possibly restore the abolished animal sacrifices, in their supposed future millennium, when the New Testament repeatedly tells us that they have been done away forever through the atoning work of Calvary?

    107. Where in the New Testament does it show these abolished animal sacrifices in this supposed sin-cursed, goat-infested, death-blighted future millennial kingdom?

    108. If Premillennialists are so certain that animal sacrifices are going to be re-instituted in this supposed future millennium of bliss (after the Second Coming), and they are so acceptable to God, why don't they just go ahead and get them started now? If they are valid during the millennium, what would make them invalid now?

    109. Why would Christ bring back animal sacrifice and Old-Covenant worship after having “taken away the first so that He could set in place the second” (Hebrews 10:9)?

    110. Is there anywhere in the New Testament that teaches that animal sacrifices will be restored to the physical temple in earthly Jerusalem?

    111. How can flesh and blood inherit the millennial kingdom, when the Bible clearly states they won’t (1 Corinthians 15:50)?

    112. How can the unsaved enter into the millennial kingdom when the Bible clearly says they can’t (1 Corinthians 6:9)?

    113. How can the wicked even exist when multiple Scripture shows Christ destroying them ALL with the glory of His Coming?

    114. How can Premils justify their millennial age when 1 Corinthians 15:23-24 makes clear that “the end” occurs “at his coming”?

    115. Surely 1 Corinthians 15:24 reinforces the climactic nature of the Second Coming by demonstrating that this is the time when Christ finally presents “up the kingdom to God” and will have, as He promised, “put down all rule and all authority and power”?

    116. Is there anywhere in the New Testament that remotely corroborates the Premillennial view of Revelation 20 that the wicked survive the Second Coming of the Lord?

    117. Please list anyone that is excluded from the camp of the wicked, destroyed in Revelation 19, carefully described as, “the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great”?

    118. If the last enemy (death) is defeated at the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 15:25), how can men still be dying during a supposed future Post-Second Advent millennium?

    119. Luke 20:34-36 tells us that those who inherit the age to come must be "worthy." It is described as a spiritual reward. It is a reward that exclusively relates to the redeemed through glorification. How can the wicked get past this prohibition?

    120. How can there still be mortals on the earth after Christ’s return when Luke 20:34-36 makes it clear that the “worthy” that inherit the age to come “neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more”?

    121. When will “the whole creation” finally be delivered from the awful “bondage of corruption” (Romans 8), with all its many awful facets? Is it at the Second Coming or the end of the millennium?

    122. Similarly, at what exact stage will the “sons of God” finally see glorification?

    123. When do we realise “the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body”?

    124. Where does Revelation 20 say the saints in view in the millennium are glorified?

    125. Can you show me anywhere in Scripture (including Revelation 20) where the glorified saints interact in any way with the mortal people after the Second Coming?

    126. If those reigning throughout this supposed post-Second Coming millennium are restricted to those martyred within the last 7 or 3 ½ years of this age, where are the rest of God’s elect during this age?

    127. If at the Second Coming “the mystery of God” is “finished,” “time” shall be “no longer,” “the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ” and the time of God’s “wrath is come” (Rev 10&11) how can the Premils expect life and death to continue on as usual on their new corrupt earth?

    128. If “time” shall be “no more” at Christ’s Coming surely we are then into eternity? How can we then have a measurable form of time after Christ’s Coming, namely, a literal period of a 1000 yrs?

    129. When actually will time “be no more” if it is not at the last trumpet (Revelation 10:5-7)?

    130. Similarly, if it isn’t at the last trumpet that the “the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever” (Revelation 11:15), when is it?

    131. How long is “for ever and ever”?

    132. Most Premillennialists speak of “nations” being judged at the Second Coming rather than the actual hearts of individuals. Could you identify some of these supposed “sheep nations”?

    133. Where did Christ (the Son of God) ever teach about a post Second Coming millennium during His earthly ministry (if it was really going to happen)? Surely this is the 2nd greatest age of man outside of the new heaven and the new earth?

    134. Where did that Hebrew of the Hebrews – Paul the Apostle – ever teach about a post Second Coming millennium throughout all of his epistles (if it was really going to happen)?

    135. How can there be children in a supposed future Post-Second Advent millennium when there is no marriage after the Second Advent (Mark 12:25 & Luke 20:34-36)?

    136. Where do these children come from? Please show Scripture.

    137. Is there anywhere in Scripture that you can corroborate the Premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20 that Gog and Magog (or any other great army) will come against the camp of the saints in the greatest global uprising in history (as the sand of the sea), from the four corners of the earth, after a supposed literal future (post-Second Advent) 1000 year period?

    138. Surely Premillennialism creates a rerun of the current great eternal earthly battle between the kingdom of God and the kingdom of darkness?

    139. If the Premillennialist idea of the millennium is correct then Christ must surely have miserably failed to conquer the wicked, evil and sin during His current sovereign reign, from the right hand of majesty on high, from the heavenly New Jerusalem?

    140. Likewise, Christ must also surely miserably fail to conquer the wicked, evil and sin during His supposed glorified rule with a rod of iron from earthly Jerusalem during a future millennium?

    141. Where in Revelation 20 does it mention Christ ruling with a rod of iron for "a thousand years"?

    142. Where else in the Old Testament does it mention Christ ruling with a rod of iron for "a thousand years"?

    143. Where else in the New Testament does it mention Christ ruling with a rod of iron for "a thousand years"?

    144. How possibly can “the voice of weeping ... be no more heard in her [Jerusalem], nor the voice of crying” (Isaiah 65:19) when hatred, bitterness, rebellion, war, death, disease, divorce child-birth and supposed conversions continue unabated in a future Premil millennium? Are they so hard-hearted or so robotic that they cannot express any emotion in this staid Premil millennium?

    145. Can you show me explicit Scripture to corroborate the Premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20/21 that the world is only destroyed 1000 years after the all-consummating Second Coming of the Lord?

    146. If the “day of the Lord” lasts a literal 1,000 years, as the Premillennialist argues (from Revelation 20 & 2 Peter 3), and the destruction of the world occurs at the very end of that day, as they also say, then surely the world is completely destroyed before Satan’s “little season” at the end, when he is released to “deceive the nations”?

    147. Surely there is absolutely no world left to deceive them in and no wicked left to deceive?

    148. 2 Peter 3 describes what will actual occur during this supposed literal 1,000 year day of the Lord, saying, “the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” Therefore, surely it is a thousand years of awful and continuous judgement, which is in stark contradiction to the peaceful (albeit sin-cursed, goat-infested and death-blighted) millennium that Premillennialists try to portray in their literature?

    149. Surely placing the destruction of the world 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ (as the Premillennialist does), totally nullifies the whole import of this reading, ignoring the plain warning of the text about the undoubted unexpected all-consummating earth-destroying nature of this judgement (Christ Coming as “a thief in the night”) and its unquestionable focus upon them that are caught unprepared?

    150. Surely this passage is particularly directed towards the “scoffers” in “the last days” that will be taken unexpectedly by the fiery destruction that accompanies the revelation of the Lord, not a supposed group of “scoffers” 1,000 years after the Second Coming?

    151. If this is supposed to be a collection of ‘millennial scoffers’ 1,000 years after the Second Coming, why would they be mocking: “Where is the promise of his coming (or parousia)? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation”? Surely this Coming has already occurred 1,000 years + previous?

    152. Are there then two different days of complete destruction, separated by 1,000 years, where “the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up” (2 Peter 3:10)? How can this possibly be?

    153. When Christ Comes as a thief in the night, will the heavens pass away / perish with a great noise?

    154. When Christ Comes as a thief in the night, will the elements be ‘loosed by being set on fire’?

    155. When Christ Comes as a thief in the night, will the earth be ‘burned up utterly / consumed wholly’?

    156. When Christ Comes as a thief in the night, will the works that are within the earth be ‘burned up utterly / consumed wholly’?

    157. What event in the eschatological calendar sees the “restitution (or reconstitution) of all things” (Acts 3:20-21)?

    158. What unregenerate man is excluded from the description of "them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" (2 Thessalonians 1:8)?

    159. When I Thessalonians 5:2-3 describes the destruction that accompanies Christ appearing “as a thief in the night” as “sudden destruction” – how would you define “sudden”?

    160. When I Thessalonians 5:2-3 describes the result of the “sudden destruction” that accompanies Christ appearing as leaving those left behind it such a dammed condition that “they shall not escape,” how could you imagine that anyone would survive?

    161. Jesus compares His return and the judgment He pours out to Noah's day and Sodom when they were completely destroyed, saying, “Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.” What percentage of the wicked worldwide was destroyed through the judgement in Noah’s day?

    162. What percentage of persons below the age of understanding worldwide was destroyed through the judgement in Noah’s day?

    163. What percentage of the wicked was destroyed through the judgement in Sodom and Gomorrah in Lot’s day?

    164. What percentage of persons below the age of understanding was destroyed through the judgement in Sodom and Gomorrah in Lot’s day?

    165. If the saved are all rescued when Jesus comes and the wicked are all destroyed: who is this 3rd group of humans that are too wicked to be raptured yet too righteous to be destroyed?

    166. Premillennialists make much about the distinctiveness between the judgment seat of Christ and the great white throne, is there any passage in Scripture (including Revelation 20) that describes two different thrones?

    167. Is there anywhere else in Scripture that describes a ‘white throne’ or ‘great white throne’?

    168. Do you believe "the last (eschatos) days" are "the last (eschatos) days"?

    169. Do you believe "the last (eschatos) day" is "the last (eschatos) day"?

    170. Do you believe "the end" (telos) is "the end" (telos)?

    171. Do you believe "the last (eschatos) trump" is "the last (eschatos) trump"?

    172. Can you show me of one single passage where Christ, Paul or any of the Apostles identified the last days with anything other than the intra-Advent period?

    173. How can the wicked be judged 1000 years + after the last day when the Bible says they will be judged on the last day (John 12:48)?

    174. Surely this is 365,000 days after the last day?

    175. If the Premillennialist is adamant in interpreting 1,000 years hyper-literally, how long is the “one hour” that the beast reigns with the “ten kings” in Revelation 17:12 is? i.e. is it sixty minutes?

    176. Do you accept that the number 1,000 (including a thousand years) and 10,000 and are repeatedly used in Scripture to denote a vast indeterminate amount or period of time?

    177. Moses declares in Deuteronomy 7:9, "Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations." Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

    178. 1 Chronicles 16:13-17 states, "O ye seed of Israel his servant, ye children of Jacob, his chosen ones. He is the LORD our God; his judgments are in all the earth. Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations; Even of the covenant which he made with Abraham, and of his oath unto Isaac; And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant." Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

    179. Psalm 91 says, "Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day; Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday. A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee" (vv 5-7). Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

    180. Deuteronomy 32:30 asks a rhetorical question, "How should one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight, except their Rock had sold them, and the Lord had shut them up?" Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

    181. Joshua affirms, in Joshua 23:10, "One man of you shall chase a thousand: for the LORD your God, he it is that fighteth for you, as he hath promised you." Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

    182. Isaiah the prophet declares in Isaiah 30:17, "one thousand shall flee at the rebuke of one." This incidentally is the only passage in Scripture that makes mention of the actual number "one thousand," albeit, the term is used to impress a spiritual truth. Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

    183. Psalm 84:9-10 says, "Behold, O God our shield, and look upon the face of thine anointed. For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness." Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

    184. Psalm 50:10-11 says, "For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills. I know all the fowls of the mountains: and the wild beasts of the field are mine." Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

    185. Ecclesiastes 7:27-28 succinctly says, "one man among a thousand have I found." Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

    186. Job 33:23 declares, "If there be a messenger with him, an interpreter, one among a thousand, to shew unto man his uprightness." Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

    187. Job 9:2-3 declares, "I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God? If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of a thousand." Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

    188. Isaiah 60:21-22 instructs, in relation to the New Earth, "Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified. A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the Lord will hasten it in his time." Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

    189. Amos 5:1-4 says, "The virgin of Israel is fallen; she shall no more rise: she is forsaken upon her land; there is none to raise her up. For thus saith the Lord GOD; The city that went out by a thousand shall leave an hundred, and that which went forth by an hundred shall leave ten, to the house of Israel." Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

    190. Is there anywhere in Scripture, including Revelation 20, that expressly outlines the oft-repeated Premillennial term ‘millennial age’?

    191. Is there anywhere in Scripture, including Revelation 20, that expressly outlines the oft-repeated Premillennial term ‘millennial kingdom’?

    192. Is there anywhere in Scripture, including Revelation 20, that expressly outlines the oft-repeated Premillennial term ‘millennial temple’?

    193. Surely Revelation 3:11-12 tells us that the “new Jerusalem … cometh down out of heaven from my God” at the Second Coming? That is why He instructs: “Behold, I come quickly.”

    194. How can the millennial inhabitants not “learn war” any more (Isaiah 2:4 and Micah 4:3) when you have the greatest uprising in history of the wicked that gather to battle as the “sand of the sea” to confront the saints in Revelation 20:8? What are the coming with - pea-shooters and water guns?

    195. If Christ is truly ruling in all His majestic power and glory on this earth during a future millennium, why would every mortal unbeliever not become an instant follower of Christ and acknowledge Him as Lord and Saviour? Surely these are the most deceived and deluded bunch of humans ever to live?

    196. If the elect possess glorified eternal bodies (meaning they are perfect and will never die), and the millennial mortals witness this for a thousand years, why would they not become an instant follower of Christ and acknowledge Him as Lord and Saviour? Surely they have lost their mind?

    197. If Christ is truly ruling in all His majestic power and glory on this earth and if the elect possess glorified eternal bodies (meaning they are perfect and will never die), and the millennial mortals witness this for a thousand years, why would they even think of attacking “the camp of the saints” at the end (Revelation 20:9)? Surely this is insane?

    198. Where does it say there are 2 new heavens and new earths, as Premils claim?

    199. When does new heavens and new earth Mark 1 come into being?

    200. When does new heavens and new earth Mark 1 terminate?

    201. What are the characteristics of new heavens and new earth Mark 1 that distinguish it from new heavens and new earth Mark 2?

    202. When does new heavens and new earth Mark 2 come into being?

    203. When does new heavens and new earth Mark 2 terminate?

    204. What are the characteristics of new heavens and new earth Mark 2 that distinguish it from new heavens and new earth Mark 1?

    205. Does that mean that there are three earths? The first (our current earth), which is full of sin, the curse, death, decay and the wicked, which is destroyed at Christ's Coming? This earth sees wickedness increase culminating in a great final conflict between good and evil. The second (millennial earth), which is full of sin, the curse, death, decay and the wicked, which is destroyed 1,000 years+ after Christ's Coming? This earth sees wickedness increase culminating in a great final conflict between good and evil. The third (new heavens and new earth),which is a sinless, curseless, deathless, wickedless, and which lasts forever.

    206. If there are two new earths are there then two old earths?

    207. But Revelation 21:1 shows us that the first earth does not pass away until after Satan’s little season, after the end of the millennium, not the beginning as Premils argue. It records, “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.”

    208. If it is the same earth why would we need a new earth?

    209. If the regeneration of a future millennial earth really happens, and if it is so successful, and if it is restored to a paradise state, why is it discarded at the end of the millennium (Rev 20:11, Rev 21:1 and Rev 21:4)?

    210. Where are the glorious and pristine characteristics and conditions that Premils attribute to Revelation 20 actually in Revelation 20? Surely they are unknown to the text and solely pertain to the “new heavens and new earth” in the next chapter in the book of Revelation – Revelation 21-22?

    211. Revelation 19:7-8 describes the marriage of the bride to her husband at the Second Coming, Revelation 21:2 I also describes the marriage of the bride to her husband when the new heavens and new earth appear, do you believe there are 2 weddings, 2 brides and 2 husbands? Would it not make more sense that they refer to the same event?

    Copyright 2015 by WPM
    Last edited by wpm; Jan 14 2016, 05:40 AM.
    "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).

    http://www.evangelicaltruth.com/

    WPM

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: 211 reasons to question Premillennialism Part 2

      You beat me to it Wpm. I was contemplating reposting the OP. My last post in part 1 could have potential ended the discussion off topic. Brian W did well.
      And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: 211 reasons to question Premillennialism Part 2

        The above is written by someone sadly lacking in understanding the true meaning of the Prophetic Word and what God has planned for His creation. Or it is all just a provocation?
        At the next prophesied event, the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, people will see what the Lord has done and only then will the confused gain understanding and those who held to false teachings, will accept true doctrines. Isaiah 29:23-24

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: 211 reasons to question Premillennialism Part 2

          .................................................
          And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: 211 reasons to question Premillennialism Part 2

            Originally posted by keras View Post
            The above is written by someone sadly lacking in understanding the true meaning of the Prophetic Word and what God has planned for His creation. Or it is all just a provocation?
            At the next prophesied event, the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, people will see what the Lord has done and only then will the confused gain understanding and those who held to false teachings, will accept true doctrines. Isaiah 29:23-24
            And which exact question are you answering???
            "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).

            http://www.evangelicaltruth.com/

            WPM

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: 211 reasons to question Premillennialism Part 2

              As I didn't bother to read them all, you don't need to prove them.
              Just be ready when the Lord does arise and resets our civilization. Romans 1:18, Hebrews 12:26 & 29, Revelation 6:12-17

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: 211 reasons to question Premillennialism Part 2

                Originally posted by wpm View Post
                [B]61. [B]Premils insist that the first resurrection is the physical resurrection of the elect at the Coming of Christ and that it is the means by which men avoid “the second death” (eternal wrath) at the Coming of the Lord. If the Premillennialist is correct then surely all those that “are alive and remain” at the Coming of the Lord are not qualified to escape “the second death” as they don’t partake in a physical resurrection because they don’t die, but are simply changed in a moment and caught up to meet Christ in the air? Those that “are alive and remain” partake in a ‘catching away’ not a resurrection.

                Perhaps you need to think this through some more then. Let me try and assist you with that then.



                1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
                14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
                15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
                16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
                17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


                2 groups mentioned here.

                1...the dead in Christ shall rise first

                2...we which are alive and remain


                Now let's consider 1 Cor 15.


                1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
                52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
                53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
                54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
                55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
                56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
                57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.



                This part....We shall not all sleep...that is meaning 1...the dead in Christ shall rise first

                But this part....but we shall all be changed...that is meaning both 1...the dead in Christ shall rise first..and 2...we which are alive and remain


                at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed....this too is meaning both 1...the dead in Christ shall rise first..and 2...we which are alive and remain.

                But if it isn't, are you going to conclude we which are alive and remain, when we rise into the clouds, we are not then raised incorruptible, and shall not be changed as well? And are you also going to conclude this doesn't happen at the last trump either, meaning in regards to we who are alive and remain?



                For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.....that is meaning both 1...the dead in Christ shall rise first..and 2...we which are alive and remain. Unless you want to conclude we who are alive and remain are not mortal before the last trump.


                then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory....that is meaning both 1...the dead in Christ shall rise first..and 2...we which are alive and remain.

                Clearly death only has to do with mortal beings. Both the dead in Christ, and we which are alive and remain, are clearly mortal beings prior to the sounding of the last trumpet. And the following in the above passage proves it for one...So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. Someone already immortal prior to the last trump wouldn't still need to do those things at the last trump. That is a contradiction and nonsensical.

                So then, show what it is those who are alive and remain miss out on because they are not physically dead at the time?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: 211 reasons to question Premillennialism Part 2

                  Originally posted by divaD View Post
                  Perhaps you need to think this through some more then. Let me try and assist you with that then.



                  1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
                  14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
                  15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
                  16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
                  17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


                  2 groups mentioned here.

                  1...the dead in Christ shall rise first

                  2...we which are alive and remain


                  Now let's consider 1 Cor 15.


                  1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
                  52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
                  53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
                  54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
                  55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
                  56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
                  57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.



                  This part....We shall not all sleep...that is meaning 1...the dead in Christ shall rise first

                  But this part....but we shall all be changed...that is meaning both 1...the dead in Christ shall rise first..and 2...we which are alive and remain


                  at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed....this too is meaning both 1...the dead in Christ shall rise first..and 2...we which are alive and remain.

                  But if it isn't, are you going to conclude we which are alive and remain, when we rise into the clouds, we are not then raised incorruptible, and shall not be changed as well? And are you also going to conclude this doesn't happen at the last trump either, meaning in regards to we who are alive and remain?



                  For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.....that is meaning both 1...the dead in Christ shall rise first..and 2...we which are alive and remain. Unless you want to conclude we who are alive and remain are not mortal before the last trump.


                  then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory....that is meaning both 1...the dead in Christ shall rise first..and 2...we which are alive and remain.

                  Clearly death only has to do with mortal beings. Both the dead in Christ, and we which are alive and remain, are clearly mortal beings prior to the sounding of the last trumpet. And the following in the above passage proves it for one...So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. Someone already immortal prior to the last trump wouldn't still need to do those things at the last trump. That is a contradiction and nonsensical.

                  So then, show what it is those who are alive and remain miss out on because they are not physically dead at the time?
                  Agreed. The first resurrection is a bodily resurrection of those in Christ.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: 211 reasons to question Premillennialism Part 2

                    Originally posted by CadyandZoe View Post
                    Agreed. The first resurrection is a bodily resurrection of those in Christ.
                    Well that's one thing debunked on this list thusfar anyway. It didn't take much to debunk it either. Clearly what happens to the dead in Christ at the last trump also happens to those still alive and remain at the last trump. To argue otherwise is illogical and is fighting with Scripture not me.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: 211 reasons to question Premillennialism Part 2

                      Originally posted by wpm View Post
                      [COLOR=#333333][B]208. [B]If it is the same earth why would we need a new earth?
                      You are full of questions which don't debunk premil but simply show you don't understand what scripture says.
                      Is the present earth where you expect to spend eternity?
                      No, no one does.
                      What is wrong with this present earth?
                      It is full of sin.
                      So what is it that is needed to be removed and so renew the earth?
                      The removal of sin, and the ushering in of righteousness.
                      So the New Earth is about renewing, redeeming the world, just like we are renewed and redeemed.
                      Not really a difficult question at all.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: 211 reasons to question Premillennialism Part 2

                        Originally posted by wpm View Post

                        [B]78. [B]Do you believe the first 7 months of your glorious perfect pristine Eden-like millennium will involve the gruesome and disturbing spectacle of sweeping up countless corpses (Ezekiel 39:9-14)[B]?

                        [B]79. Will the glorified saints be forced to participate in this gruesome and disturbing effort as morticians and grave-diggers for the first 7 months of their glorified life”




                        Unless you can prove somehow that these things already took place in the past, and I know you can't, since nobody can to begin with, that then places this around the events of the 2nd coming. And why you would dispute that in the first place is beyond me, since some of Ez 39 parallels some of Rev 19 to a T. The feasting birds for one, and whom they are feasting on.

                        IMO the following seems to be connected with Isaiah 66.


                        Ezekiel 39:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.
                        12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.
                        13 Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD.
                        14 And they shall sever out men of continual employment, passing through the land to bury with the passengers those that remain upon the face of the earth, to cleanse it: after the end of seven months shall they search.
                        15 And the passengers that pass through the land, when any seeth a man's bone, then shall he set up a sign by it, till the buriers have buried it in the valley of Hamongog.
                        16 And also the name of the city shall be Hamonah. Thus shall they cleanse the land.


                        Which seems to be meaning this.


                        Isaiah 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.


                        My guess is that there are plenty of carcases to look upon in Ez 39, the fact it takes 7 months to bury them all.

                        But since you apparently think the NT trumps the OT, rather than using both testaments together in order to see the bigger picture, you of course will reject this based on the fact you're only using one testament to provide you your conclusions, while some of the rest of us are trying to use both testaments together. And the times you do consider what is said in the OT, much of the time your conclusions are not even remotely matching with what the text is saying. So why would anyone want to consider you could be correct when the text is saying one thing and you are saying something else altogether, IOW not what the text is saying?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: 211 reasons to question Premillennialism Part 2

                          Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
                          You are full of questions which don't debunk premil but simply show you don't understand what scripture says.
                          Is the present earth where you expect to spend eternity?
                          No, no one does.
                          What is wrong with this present earth?
                          It is full of sin.
                          So what is it that is needed to be removed and so renew the earth?
                          The removal of sin, and the ushering in of righteousness.
                          So the New Earth is about renewing, redeeming the world, just like we are renewed and redeemed.
                          Not really a difficult question at all.
                          I am fully aware of Premil. I used to hold and teach it. I have also debated in online with countless Premils. The questions above are holes I have discovered, and which Premil struggles to corroborate. The fact is: it is extra-biblical.

                          When is the NHNE introduced?
                          Is there sin on your new earth?
                          "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).

                          http://www.evangelicaltruth.com/

                          WPM

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: 211 reasons to question Premillennialism Part 2

                            Originally posted by divaD View Post
                            Unless you can prove somehow that these things already took place in the past, and I know you can't, since nobody can to begin with, that then places this around the events of the 2nd coming. And why you would dispute that in the first place is beyond me, since some of Ez 39 parallels some of Rev 19 to a T. The feasting birds for one, and whom they are feasting on.

                            IMO the following seems to be connected with Isaiah 66.


                            Ezekiel 39:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.
                            12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.
                            13 Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD.
                            14 And they shall sever out men of continual employment, passing through the land to bury with the passengers those that remain upon the face of the earth, to cleanse it: after the end of seven months shall they search.
                            15 And the passengers that pass through the land, when any seeth a man's bone, then shall he set up a sign by it, till the buriers have buried it in the valley of Hamongog.
                            16 And also the name of the city shall be Hamonah. Thus shall they cleanse the land.


                            Which seems to be meaning this.


                            Isaiah 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.


                            My guess is that there are plenty of carcases to look upon in Ez 39, the fact it takes 7 months to bury them all.

                            But since you apparently think the NT trumps the OT, rather than using both testaments together in order to see the bigger picture, you of course will reject this based on the fact you're only using one testament to provide you your conclusions, while some of the rest of us are trying to use both testaments together. And the times you do consider what is said in the OT, much of the time your conclusions are not even remotely matching with what the text is saying. So why would anyone want to consider you could be correct when the text is saying one thing and you are saying something else altogether, IOW not what the text is saying?
                            What is veiled, vague, or concealed in the Old Testament is revealed in the New Testament. God was hidden behind a curtain under the old covenant. Premil explains away the NT by its faulty view of the OT. The reality is, this battle occurred a long time ago:

                            The transport is ancient – “horses” (Ezekiel 38:4) and “chariots” (Ezekiel 39:20).
                            The weapons are ancient – “bows and the arrows” (Ezekiel 39:9).
                            The protection is ancient "bucklers and shields" (Ezekiel 38:4 & 39:9).
                            The spoil is ancient – “cattle and goods” (Ezekiel 38:13).
                            "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).

                            http://www.evangelicaltruth.com/

                            WPM

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: 211 reasons to question Premillennialism Part 2

                              Originally posted by wpm View Post
                              What is veiled, vague, or concealed in the Old Testament is revealed in the New Testament. God was hidden behind a curtain under the old covenant. Premil explains away the NT by its faulty view of the OT. The reality is, this battle occurred a long time ago:

                              The transport is ancient – “horses” (Ezekiel 38:4) and “chariots” (Ezekiel 39:20).
                              The weapons are ancient – “bows and the arrows” (Ezekiel 39:9).
                              The protection is ancient "bucklers and shields" (Ezekiel 38:4 & 39:9).
                              The spoil is ancient – “cattle and goods” (Ezekiel 38:13).

                              So IOW, the Bible contains prophecies that came to pass already, yet no one can prove it with Scriptures nor history. If something as profound as what is stated in Ez 39 already happened in the past, come on now, someone would surely be able to prove it. Notice what it says here for one.


                              Ezekiel 39:8 Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this is the day whereof I have spoken.


                              Does that sound like something minor that would come to pass but nobody have any knowledge of it?

                              What part of...it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this is the day whereof I have spoken....are you not getting?


                              It sounds eerily similar as what is stated in the following.


                              Revelation 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.


                              Maybe because both passages are describing the same thing.

                              Comment

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