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  • Fall Feasts of the Lord Rapture and Return of the Lord

    The way I see eschatology is based on fulfillment of the feasts Mt 5:17 and Mt 5:18
    Let me explain why I see this as post trib. Many see the rapture happening on the feast of Trumpets I agree. It is a time and call to repentance...therefore the bride makes herself ready Re 19:7. These days are also a time for righting wrongs done to others, paying debts and charitable giving. Trumpets also speaks of Sinai, Exodus 19 v16-19


    When the shofar sounds in the synagogue on Rosh Hashanah, it announces the raising of Isaac from the dead (figuratively speaking, Abraham did receive his son back from death). The Babylonian captivity lasted seventy years. The Jews that returned to the promised land had been dead as a nation for a lifetime (three score and ten years). When they returned on the Feast of Trumpets, the sound of the shofar blast announced the resurrection of a nation.


    Pre-trib however see there being a 7 year between the fulfillment of the next feast. I don't see it that way. I think the Lord will fulfill the last feasts back to back just as he did the spring feasts. Therefore I see the 7 days as being literal between the feasts just like the days of Noah Ge 7:4 and 7:10 where he was given 7 days. It will be in those 7 days prior to Atonement that the wedding supper is Re 19:9.


    There are 2.2 billion Christians in the world, I don't see them all being raptured. I see just the elect being raptured. Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen. Which is what is said about the marriage feast in the Bible in Matt 22. So I expect Christians on earth at the Lords return. Lets say the Lord takes 10% of the Christians in the rapture as a like tithe offering the rest are left. Another reason I think this way is because of the dividing of the nations Christ will do between sheep and goat Mt 25:32. Plus I think most Christians don't even notice these days thinking everything was fulfilled. Even though I can be aware of them I don't consider myself as being an elect of God's.


    The rapture causing such commotion that mid east nations scramble to launch an attack on Israel. Making plans to do this attack on the next holy day. To me this war could happen that fast today.


    After the seven days the Lord then appearing on the Day of Atonement placing his feet on the mount of olives Zec 14:4
    Yom Kippur (Leviticus 23:27; 25:9) is called the Day of Atonement, is called both the Day of Judgment, the Sabbath of Sabbaths, and the Day of Redemption, the Day of the Fast or the Great Fast.
    Ne'ilah At nightfall ( the end of the day - as soon as the stars come out ) the sound of the shofar blowing of the tekiah gedolah, a long blast, resounds around the synagogue for the last time as heaven's gates are closing . It is also referred to as the “great trumpet”.
    The concluding service of Yom Kippur, known as Ne'ilah, is one unique to the day. It usually runs about 1 hour long. The ark housing the scrolls of the Torah is kept open throughout this service, thus one must stand (if able) throughout the service. Ne’Ilah – the Locking – is a plea that the gates of God’s mercy will remain open.


    This day being of course the fulfillment of both Day of Judgment (a one day war day of the Lord) for the forces that come against Israel and Day of Redemption Ro 11:26 itself for Israel both happening the same day.


    Then of course the Lord himself will be here to fulfill Tabernacles....which is a feast that continues through the reign of Christ.

    Paul says the rapture happens in the air 1Th 4:17 Therefore it is a different day than when every eye will see Him Revelation 1:7. We have this technology today for every eye to see him.

  • #2
    Re: Fall Feasts of the Lord Rapture and Return of the Lord

    Originally posted by kyCyd View Post
    Pre-trib however see there being a 7 year between the fulfillment of the next feast. I don't see it that way. I think the Lord will fulfill the last feasts back to back just as he did the spring feasts.
    A lot of people believe that Matthew 24:36 refers to our Rapture (and claim this refers to Rosh Hashanah/Feast of Trumpets). I don't believe our RAPTURE is its context. [none of the Olivet Discourse is covering our Rapture]

    I believe the Olivet Discourse is referring [ALL] to His Second Coming to the earth [except for about 12 verses in Lk21:12-24a about the events of 70ad].

    I agree that the fall feasts could be fulfilled all in the same year of each other just as the spring feasts. However, as I've studied this over the years, I do not see the Rapture correlating with Rosh Hashanah (Feast of Trumpets) [per the above statement I made]. Again, I see the context of Matt24 ALL being about the time (and events) surrounding His Second Coming to the earth FOR the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom. (starting with "the beginning of birth PANGS" which 1Th5:2-3 is the INITIAL [singular] birth PANG, upon its ARRIVAL [the START--i.e. the FIRST SEAL, the man of sin be revealed 2Th2:9a,6-7; Dan9:27a(26)]

    In Rev19, Rev19:7 is "aorist" (meaning, "the marriage" itself has already taken place IN HEAVEN, before Jesus comes down to the earth [at His "return"]; see also Lk12:36-37,38,40 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." THEN the meal [i.e the earthly MK/wedding FEAST-SUPPER]).

    Rev19:9 on the other hand (about "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER") is NOT "aorist," but what He is now heading down to (as an ALREADY-WED Bridegroom WITH [G4862 (denoting UNION)] His ALREADY-WED "Bride/Wife [singular]")... and that is where the earthly settings of Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44... Matt25:1-13nasb... Matt22:9-14nasb... Matt11:8 [and parallel] take up (i.e. the next scene SEQUENTIALLY). The "bridesmaids [PLURAL]," for example, go in "with [G3326 - accompanying] Him" to the wedding FEAST/SUPPER (i.e. the earthly MK)... which are two completely distinct things. He's not MARRYING the "plural virgins".




    [our "Rapture" pertains SOLELY to "the Church which is His body"... not to all other saints of all other time periods... As "ONE BODY," He will not be rapturing this piecemeal. Paul said, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; we [the BODY] shall not all sleep, but we [the BODY] shall ALL be changed, in a moment..."]

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Fall Feasts of the Lord Rapture and Return of the Lord

      Originally posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
      A lot of people believe that Matthew 24:36 refers to our Rapture (and claim this refers to Rosh Hashanah/Feast of Trumpets). I don't believe our RAPTURE is its context. [none of the Olivet Discourse is covering our Rapture]

      I believe the Olivet Discourse is referring [ALL] to His Second Coming to the earth [except for about 12 verses in Lk21:12-24a about the events of 70ad].

      I agree that the fall feasts could be fulfilled all in the same year of each other just as the spring feasts. However, as I've studied this over the years, I do not see the Rapture correlating with Rosh Hashanah (Feast of Trumpets) [per the above statement I made]. Again, I see the context of Matt24 ALL being about the time (and events) surrounding His Second Coming to the earth FOR the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom. (starting with "the beginning of birth PANGS" which 1Th5:2-3 is the INITIAL [singular] birth PANG, upon its ARRIVAL [the START--i.e. the FIRST SEAL, the man of sin be revealed 2Th2:9a,6-7; Dan9:27a(26)]

      In Rev19, Rev19:7 is "aorist" (meaning, "the marriage" itself has already taken place IN HEAVEN, before Jesus comes down to the earth [at His "return"]; see also Lk12:36-37,38,40 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." THEN the meal [i.e the earthly MK/wedding FEAST-SUPPER]).

      Rev19:9 on the other hand (about "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER") is NOT "aorist," but what He is now heading down to (as an ALREADY-WED Bridegroom WITH [G4862 (denoting UNION)] His ALREADY-WED "Bride/Wife [singular]")... and that is where the earthly settings of Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44... Matt25:1-13nasb... Matt22:9-14nasb... Matt11:8 [and parallel] take up (i.e. the next scene SEQUENTIALLY). The "bridesmaids [PLURAL]," for example, go in "with [G3326 - accompanying] Him" to the wedding FEAST/SUPPER (i.e. the earthly MK)... which are two completely distinct things. He's not MARRYING the "plural virgins".




      [our "Rapture" pertains SOLELY to "the Church which is His body"... not to all other saints of all other time periods... As "ONE BODY," He will not be rapturing this piecemeal. Paul said, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; we [the BODY] shall not all sleep, but we [the BODY] shall ALL be changed, in a moment..."]
      Jesus used the word great sound of the trumpet Mt 24:31. The great trumpet is on Day of Atonement. I was not using Mt 24 for the rapture, I was going by what Paul said about it being the last trump. That tells you the feast of Trumpets as there are many soundings of the trumpet.

      I understand what you are meaning about Rev 19:9. I do see the wedding taking place in heaven though as well as the supper not on earth.

      I would be interested in seeing what you came up with in your study if you feel up to it, but would understand if you don't want to give your take on the feasts. I mean do you see 2.2 billion Christians being gone at once? Do you not see Christians being here when Jesus comes? Things like that I would be curious as to how you see things.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Fall Feasts of the Lord Rapture and Return of the Lord

        I'm fervently Postrib, and see the Hebrew Feasts fulfilled at the Cross. Passover, in the 1st mth, represents the application of Jesus' death in the beginning of Israel's history. And Tabernacles, in the 7th mth, represents the application of Jesus' death at the end of Israel's history. Pentecost represents the giving of Christ's Spirit in the middle of Israel's history. This is pure speculation on my part.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Fall Feasts of the Lord Rapture and Return of the Lord

          The spring feasts cannot be ignored for the following scriptures:

          *[[Luk 22:15]] KJV* And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
          *[[Luk 22:16]] KJV* For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, UNTIL IT BE FULFILLED in the kingdom of God.

          Saying that the spring feasts are "fulfilled" does not agree with those scriptures.

          Blessings
          The PuP

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Fall Feasts of the Lord Rapture and Return of the Lord

            Originally posted by Pesachpup View Post
            The spring feasts cannot be ignored for the following scriptures:

            *[[Luk 22:15]] KJV* And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
            *[[Luk 22:16]] KJV* For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, UNTIL IT BE FULFILLED in the kingdom of God.

            Saying that the spring feasts are "fulfilled" does not agree with those scriptures.

            Blessings
            The PuP
            I think the Feasts are part of the agricultural cycle, applying principles of temporary atonement. Israel was temporarily covered by animal sacrifices from the beginning to the end of their agricultural cycle.

            But this may also apply from the beginning to the end of Israel's historical cycle of redemption. Final redemption takes place by Christ, and not under the Law of Moses. Therefore, the feasts represent Israel's ultimate fulfillment in the Kingdom of God.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Fall Feasts of the Lord Rapture and Return of the Lord

              Originally posted by Pesachpup View Post
              The spring feasts cannot be ignored for the following scriptures:

              *[[Luk 22:15]] KJV* And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
              *[[Luk 22:16]] KJV* For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, UNTIL IT BE FULFILLED in the kingdom of God.

              Saying that the spring feasts are "fulfilled" does not agree with those scriptures.

              Blessings
              The PuP
              I don't read that verse the same way you do. To me all Jesus was saying is that the next time he eats of the meal it would have already been fulfilled. It then was fulfilled but he would not be here to partake again is all that means to me. Another reason to expect him to come again. I see it as already been fulfilled.

              It is a verse of scripture that Jesus was pointing them to look at the feasts as going to be fulfilled. I don't know they thought about that happening. Jesus did read from the prophets too for fulfillment. So we are to look for fulfillment in the feasts and the prophets.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Fall Feasts of the Lord Rapture and Return of the Lord

                Originally posted by randyk View Post
                I'm fervently Postrib, and see the Hebrew Feasts fulfilled at the Cross. Passover, in the 1st mth, represents the application of Jesus' death in the beginning of Israel's history. And Tabernacles, in the 7th mth, represents the application of Jesus' death at the end of Israel's history. Pentecost represents the giving of Christ's Spirit in the middle of Israel's history. This is pure speculation on my part.
                It is an interesting study on the different things they do on the feasts. I just touched on a few. There are sites that have the service and readings that are done.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Fall Feasts of the Lord Rapture and Return of the Lord

                  Originally posted by kyCyd View Post
                  It is an interesting study on the different things they do on the feasts. I just touched on a few. There are sites that have the service and readings that are done.
                  Yea, I think many of us have a great interest in biblical symbolism--I know I have. But I've had trouble with making direct correlations between OT items and their NT counterparts. So I no longer do things quite this way

                  What I do is begin with the premise that Christ is the fulfillment of *everything* under the Law. This means essentially that the first and foremost counterpart to *all* OT realities is the *cross.* It is difficult to translate earthly realities into heavenly realities.

                  But it is interesting, indeed, to look at all of the details of OT observances, and how they impacted Israel's life.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Fall Feasts of the Lord Rapture and Return of the Lord

                    Originally posted by kyCyd View Post
                    The way I see eschatology is based on fulfillment of the feasts Mt 5:17 and Mt 5:18
                    Let me explain why I see this as post trib. Many see the rapture happening on the feast of Trumpets I agree. It is a time and call to repentance...therefore the bride makes herself ready Re 19:7. These days are also a time for righting wrongs done to others, paying debts and charitable giving. Trumpets also speaks of Sinai, Exodus 19 v16-19


                    When the shofar sounds in the synagogue on Rosh Hashanah, it announces the raising of Isaac from the dead (figuratively speaking, Abraham did receive his son back from death). The Babylonian captivity lasted seventy years. The Jews that returned to the promised land had been dead as a nation for a lifetime (three score and ten years). When they returned on the Feast of Trumpets, the sound of the shofar blast announced the resurrection of a nation.


                    Pre-trib however see there being a 7 year between the fulfillment of the next feast. I don't see it that way. I think the Lord will fulfill the last feasts back to back just as he did the spring feasts. Therefore I see the 7 days as being literal between the feasts just like the days of Noah Ge 7:4 and 7:10 where he was given 7 days. It will be in those 7 days prior to Atonement that the wedding supper is Re 19:9.
                    No sir, we do not see a 7 Year gap in between the "SHADOWS" we are given of what is coming. The Passover, Unleavened Bread and First-fruits were all FULFILLED within a few days of each other in the "SPRING FEASTS" by Jesus' death. We are now in the Feast of Weeks/PENTECOST/Harvest or the Church Age which will last nigh 2000 years it seems. Its on the calendar all unto itself, just like the Church Age is the Gentile Church Age all alone unto itself. Then we get the FALL FEASTS you mention above which start with the Feast of Trumpets.

                    Fall Feasts
                    1.) Feast of Trumpets---Trumpets never did much of anything EXCEPT MAKE ANNOUNCEMENTS, thus this represents the LAST TRUMP calling the Church Home unto Jesus which indicates a PRE-TRIBULATION Rapture !! This Trumpet ENDS the Harvest/CHURCH AGE !! It also announces that the Feasts of Atonement and Tabernacle were NIGH AT HAND !!

                    2. Feast of Atonement---There is no 7 year wait brother, the Church is Raptured, the Two-witnesses show up at the 1335 which is 1185 days INTO the 70th Week. The 1335 like the 1260 is a SET NUMBER of days from Jesus' Second Coming. ANYWAY, the Church is in Heaven, now Israel is back on the clock, they have to REPENT/Atone before the 70th week is up, thus Israel repents/ATONES when the Two-witnesses show up. This is why God protects them for 1260 days in the Wilderness/Petra.

                    3. Feast of Tabernacle---The word TABERNACLE means to DWELL with God. Where does Jesus rule from for the 1000 year reign? Jerusalem, so Israel DWELL with God/Jesus.

                    Feast 8 will of course eventually be a NEW BEGINNING.

                    So we have the FULL STORY of Mankind played out/foretold by God in these Feasts. Jesus fulfilled the PASSOVER, UNLEAVENED BREAD and the FIRST-FRUITS. As I speak we are in the FEAST OF PENTECOST/HARVEST. We are the body of Christ the Sower, we are Harvesting souls and have been for nigh 2000 years. When Jesus calls us home via the LAST TRUMP, the Church will go to be with Jesus in Heaven in order to Marry the Lamb just like Rev. ch. 19 says. At that time the 70th Week begins for Israel, and they MUST REPENT. So Israel ATONES for their sins against God, then when Jesus returns with the Church just like Rev. 19 says, we will defeat the Anti-Christ/Beast and his armies and save Israel from their plight in Petra, then Jesus will rule from Jerusalem for 1000 years.

                    There are 2.2 billion Christians in the world, I don't see them all being raptured. I see just the elect being raptured. Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen. Which is what is said about the marriage feast in the Bible in Matt 22. So I expect Christians on earth at the Lords return. Lets say the Lord takes 10% of the Christians in the rapture as a like tithe offering the rest are left. Another reason I think this way is because of the dividing of the nations Christ will do between sheep and goat Mt 25:32. Plus I think most Christians don't even notice these days thinking everything was fulfilled. Even though I can be aware of them I don't consider myself as being an elect of God's.


                    The rapture causing such commotion that mid east nations scramble to launch an attack on Israel. Making plans to do this attack on the next holy day. To me this war could happen that fast today.
                    Well of course THE ELECT by its very name means ELECTED to Heaven via the blood of Christ. If there be 7-8 Billion and God calls us all, then 8 Billion is called and the 2 Billion who have been CHOSEN would be FEW, but I don't think it will be 2 billion either, there are many who are Christian in name only, but then again I do not think God CHOOSES ANYONE, other than He chooses those that accept Christ Jesus. This whole Predestination theory is pure bunk, IMHO.

                    Jesus will take ALL the Christians who have the Holy Spirit (Oil) in their Lamps (bodies). Many will not be ready, sadly they will be killed, they are the REMNANT CHURCH of Rev. 12:17, they are the BEHEADED under the Alter in Seal #5, and those who reign with Christ 1000 years on the earth in Rev. 20:4. If there is any Christian still alive he will be deep in a cave somewhere with lots of rations. Most will be BEHEADED, or they will take the Mark of the Beast which means they are condemned unto hell. The Jews are protected if they flee to Petra, the REMNANT CHURCH is not protected.

                    The WHEAT are Israel, the TARES are the Wicked on earth. Israel remains on earth until the end with the Wicked TARES, then they will be separated. Th Church is IN HEAVEN.

                    The "RAPTURE" is far different from what most people expect. No humans will VANISH !! They will DIE. No flesh can enter Heaven. The Dead in Christ are raised UNCORRUPTIBLE which means without Corrupt flesh, THOSE ALIVE in Christ will be changed in a flash, meaning we DIE and turn unto Spirit men just like the Dead, we will put off our SIN FLESH which can not enter Heaven. We will all get our new bodies in Heaven,the White Robes represent our glorified bodies in Rev. 19.

                    No one vanishes in thin air, there will just be 100's of millions of people dying all at once, if not a billion or more.

                    After the seven days the Lord then appearing on the Day of Atonement placing his feet on the mount of olives Zec 14:4
                    Yom Kippur (Leviticus 23:27; 25:9) is called the Day of Atonement, is called both the Day of Judgment, the Sabbath of Sabbaths, and the Day of Redemption, the Day of the Fast or the Great Fast.
                    Ne'ilah At nightfall ( the end of the day - as soon as the stars come out ) the sound of the shofar blowing of the tekiah gedolah, a long blast, resounds around the synagogue for the last time as heaven's gates are closing . It is also referred to as the “great trumpet”.
                    The concluding service of Yom Kippur, known as Ne'ilah, is one unique to the day. It usually runs about 1 hour long. The ark housing the scrolls of the Torah is kept open throughout this service, thus one must stand (if able) throughout the service. Ne’Ilah – the Locking – is a plea that the gates of God’s mercy will remain open.


                    This day being of course the fulfillment of both Day of Judgment (a one day war day of the Lord) for the forces that come against Israel and Day of Redemption Ro 11:26 itself for Israel both happening the same day.


                    Then of course the Lord himself will be here to fulfill Tabernacles....which is a feast that continues through the reign of Christ.

                    Paul says the rapture happens in the air 1Th 4:17 Therefore it is a different day than when every eye will see Him Revelation 1:7. We have this technology today for every eye to see him.
                    I have already explained the Day of Atonement above. I agree Zechariah 14:3-4 is Jesus' Second Coming, but you added the Day of atonement there. Zechariah 14:1-2 is the Anti-Christ Conquering Jerusalem, verses 3-4 is Jesus Conquering the Anti-Christ.
                    Its not ONE DAY per se.
                    Last edited by Revelation Man; Jul 9th 2018, 05:35 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Fall Feasts of the Lord Rapture and Return of the Lord

                      Originally posted by Revelation Man View Post
                      Fall Feasts
                      1.) Feast of Trumpets---Trumpets never did much of anything EXCEPT MAKE ANNOUNCEMENTS, thus this represents the LAST TRUMP calling the Church Home unto Jesus which indicates a PRE-TRIBULATION Rapture !! This Trumpet ENDS the Harvest/CHURCH AGE !! It also announces that the Feasts of Atonement and Tabernacle were NIGH AT HAND !!

                      2. Feast of Atonement---There is no 7 year wait brother, the Church is Raptured, the Two-witnesses show up at the 1335 which is 1185 days INTO the 70th Week. The 1335 like the 1260 is a SET NUMBER of days from Jesus' Second Coming. ANYWAY, the Church is in Heaven, now Israel is back on the clock, they have to REPENT/Atone before the 70th week is up, thus Israel repents/ATONES when the Two-witnesses show up. This is why God protects them for 1260 days in the Wilderness/Petra.

                      3. Feast of Tabernacle---The word TABERNACLE means to DWELL with God. Where does Jesus rule from for the 1000 year reign? Jerusalem, so Israel DWELL with God/Jesus.
                      Thanks for your post, I always find it interesting how others see these feasts.

                      On your feast of Atonement, I am having a hard time following what you are saying. By the looks of all you have there, you are showing a gap in the feasts, they are not happening back to back all in the same year as I mentioned in my OP. If you are showing set days to happen after Trumpets then what year are you expecting Atonement to happen?

                      The "RAPTURE" is far different from what most people expect. No humans will VANISH !! They will DIE. No flesh can enter Heaven. The Dead in Christ are raised UNCORRUPTIBLE which means without Corrupt flesh, THOSE ALIVE in Christ will be changed in a flash, meaning we DIE and turn unto Spirit men just like the Dead, we will put off our SIN FLESH which can not enter Heaven. We will all get our new bodies in Heaven,the White Robes represent our glorified bodies in Rev. 19.

                      No one vanishes in thin air, there will just be 100's of millions of people dying all at once, if not a billion or more.
                      Now I have never thought about the rapture looking like this. I think the reason most don't think about it this way is because Jesus did not leave a body behind, therefore to be changed in an instant there would not be a body left behind.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Fall Feasts of the Lord Rapture and Return of the Lord

                        Originally posted by kyCyd View Post
                        Thanks for your post, I always find it interesting how others see these feasts.

                        On your feast of Atonement, I am having a hard time following what you are saying. By the looks of all you have there, you are showing a gap in the feasts, they are not happening back to back all in the same year as I mentioned in my OP. If you are showing set days to happen after Trumpets then what year are you expecting Atonement to happen?



                        Now I have never thought about the rapture looking like this. I think the reason most don't think about it this way is because Jesus did not leave a body behind, therefore to be changed in an instant there would not be a body left behind.
                        About the rapture and resurection, I see the living not as dying litterally, but rather a changing of the atoms in our flesh into something else like a chemical reaction changing a solid intoak some other chemicals form. But it is a reacation that we do not currently understand. Now, if you want to say death is decay, which is also a chemical reaction of sorts, then OK, the living will die in that way, but consciousness will never leave that living body. And if consciousness never leaves, can he really be dead?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Fall Feasts of the Lord Rapture and Return of the Lord

                          Originally posted by Soldier_of_Faith View Post
                          About the rapture and resurection, I see the living not as dying litterally, but rather a changing of the atoms in our flesh into something else like a chemical reaction changing a solid intoak some other chemicals form. But it is a reacation that we do not currently understand. Now, if you want to say death is decay, which is also a chemical reaction of sorts, then OK, the living will die in that way, but consciousness will never leave that living body. And if consciousness never leaves, can he really be dead?
                          The way you are explaining it though to me here, it doesn't sound like a body would be left behind.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Fall Feasts of the Lord Rapture and Return of the Lord

                            Originally posted by kyCyd View Post
                            The way I see eschatology is based on fulfillment of the feasts Mt 5:17 and Mt 5:18
                            Let me explain why I see this as post trib. Many see the rapture happening on the feast of Trumpets I agree. It is a time and call to repentance...therefore the bride makes herself ready Re 19:7. These days are also a time for righting wrongs done to others, paying debts and charitable giving. Trumpets also speaks of Sinai, Exodus 19 v16-19


                            When the shofar sounds in the synagogue on Rosh Hashanah, it announces the raising of Isaac from the dead (figuratively speaking, Abraham did receive his son back from death). The Babylonian captivity lasted seventy years. The Jews that returned to the promised land had been dead as a nation for a lifetime (three score and ten years). When they returned on the Feast of Trumpets, the sound of the shofar blast announced the resurrection of a nation.


                            Pre-trib however see there being a 7 year between the fulfillment of the next feast. I don't see it that way. I think the Lord will fulfill the last feasts back to back just as he did the spring feasts. Therefore I see the 7 days as being literal between the feasts just like the days of Noah Ge 7:4 and 7:10 where he was given 7 days. It will be in those 7 days prior to Atonement that the wedding supper is Re 19:9.


                            There are 2.2 billion Christians in the world, I don't see them all being raptured. I see just the elect being raptured. Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen. Which is what is said about the marriage feast in the Bible in Matt 22. So I expect Christians on earth at the Lords return. Lets say the Lord takes 10% of the Christians in the rapture as a like tithe offering the rest are left. Another reason I think this way is because of the dividing of the nations Christ will do between sheep and goat Mt 25:32. Plus I think most Christians don't even notice these days thinking everything was fulfilled. Even though I can be aware of them I don't consider myself as being an elect of God's.


                            The rapture causing such commotion that mid east nations scramble to launch an attack on Israel. Making plans to do this attack on the next holy day. To me this war could happen that fast today.


                            After the seven days the Lord then appearing on the Day of Atonement placing his feet on the mount of olives Zec 14:4
                            Yom Kippur (Leviticus 23:27; 25:9) is called the Day of Atonement, is called both the Day of Judgment, the Sabbath of Sabbaths, and the Day of Redemption, the Day of the Fast or the Great Fast.
                            Ne'ilah At nightfall ( the end of the day - as soon as the stars come out ) the sound of the shofar blowing of the tekiah gedolah, a long blast, resounds around the synagogue for the last time as heaven's gates are closing . It is also referred to as the “great trumpet”.
                            The concluding service of Yom Kippur, known as Ne'ilah, is one unique to the day. It usually runs about 1 hour long. The ark housing the scrolls of the Torah is kept open throughout this service, thus one must stand (if able) throughout the service. Ne’Ilah – the Locking – is a plea that the gates of God’s mercy will remain open.


                            This day being of course the fulfillment of both Day of Judgment (a one day war day of the Lord) for the forces that come against Israel and Day of Redemption Ro 11:26 itself for Israel both happening the same day.


                            Then of course the Lord himself will be here to fulfill Tabernacles....which is a feast that continues through the reign of Christ.

                            Paul says the rapture happens in the air 1Th 4:17 Therefore it is a different day than when every eye will see Him Revelation 1:7. We have this technology today for every eye to see him.
                            I'm not sure we can get a time synchronization between the 7th month, with its observances, and the 2nd Coming of Christ. In general, the 7th month means the end of the agricultural year, the harvest season.

                            We may see it as symbolic of Israel's final state as a nation. 3 observances happen in the 7th month, and they are made to be distinct from one another, to present an order of *priority,* rather than a chronological sequence that can be superimposed at the 2nd Coming.

                            For example, the Trumpets observation, on the 1st of the month, is a call to universal recognition in Israel that the harvest observances have begun. The Day of Atonement, on the 10th of the month, is a universal recognition in Israel that God has provided atonement for the entire nation. And the Feast of Tabernacles, from the 15th to the 21st of the month, is a national prayer of thanksgiving for God's preservation of the nation.

                            But we cannot, I think, superimpose this order on the 2nd Coming, because the harvest cycle is one thing, and eschatology is another thing. Israel had, under the Law, a continuous cycle of harvest seasons, in which they had to depend upon observances under the Law to obtain God's favor and temporary atonement for their sins.

                            But under Christ, history has an end-game for Israel, in which final atonement is made, and the nation is restored, never to be punished again. If Israel had a priority in their harvest season under the OT Law, then certainly there is also a priority with respect to what must happen for Israel to complete their national hope.

                            I suggest that there will be a different kind of "trumpet call" at Christ's 2nd Coming, in which Israel will recognize that their national fulfillment has come. And there will be a different kind of "atonement" taking place, which refers back to Christ's eternal atonement for Israel on the cross. And finally, there will be a different kind of recognition of Israel's preservation in the NT era, in which God kept the nation alive during a long period of unbelief.

                            None of these things, to happen at Christ's 2nd Coming, follows the particular chronological sequence under the Law and the agricultural year. However, the priorities remain the same, if only in a different sequence. At Israel's national restoration, all 3 feasts will be somewhat represented simultaneously, when the Church is glorified. At the 2nd Coming, Christ will have a trumpet blown, and the Church will be gathered up, including Jewish believers. And this will cause Israel, and other nations, to recognize Christ died for their sins in the 1st century. And finally, Israel will then praise God that their nation has finally achieved Christianity.

                            When Christ comes, I agree that there will be much fewer Christians than the billion or so we have now on earth. In fact, religion has been suffering a slow death for a long time now. The true Church has not, however, been dying--just growing smaller in number.

                            So when Christ comes back there will be relatively few to enjoy the Rapture. Many, however, will remain on earth, following the Battle of Armageddon, who will be open to Christian evangelism. And so, the Christian Church will continue in all nations. It's just that the number of Christians who go "missing" may be relatively few. Most Christians who participate in the Rapture will be the "dead in Christ," whether they died in history or in the endtimes tribulations.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Fall Feasts of the Lord Rapture and Return of the Lord

                              Originally posted by kyCyd View Post
                              I don't read that verse the same way you do. To me all Jesus was saying is that the next time he eats of the meal it would have already been fulfilled. It then was fulfilled but he would not be here to partake again is all that means to me. Another reason to expect him to come again. I see it as already been fulfilled.

                              It is a verse of scripture that Jesus was pointing them to look at the feasts as going to be fulfilled. I don't know they thought about that happening. Jesus did read from the prophets too for fulfillment. So we are to look for fulfillment in the feasts and the prophets.
                              Let me make a follow-up point to your response to my point about the spring feasts being fulfilled. Think about this statement that many make:
                              "I believe that the spring feasts were 'fulfilled' in the work of Christ in his 1st advent". So, in essence this translates to excluding the spring feasts in the end of the age redemptive plan of God [for Israel, or the church]. "Fulfilment" translates to no longer needed [in God's plans]. But if that is the case, how do you explain the Feast of Tabernacles, to be "fulfilled" with 2nd advent events that are to take place, still being celebrated, post-Armageddon?

                              *[[Zec 14:16]] KJV* And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

                              Fulfillment is wrongly being equated with no longer being needed. In addition, show me where how the 7 day feast of unleavened bread has been "fulfilled", especially eating unleavened bread for 7 days; the 7th day being a Sabbath; and an offering of fire being made for all 7 days.

                              *[[Lev 23:7]] KJV* In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.
                              *[[Lev 23:8]] KJV* But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD seven days: in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

                              Blessings
                              The PuP

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