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John 5:28-29 supports the amillenial view

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  • John 5:28-29 supports the amillenial view

    Everyone seems to recognize that the dead in Christ will rise first and those alive shall be caught up (1 Thes. 4:16-5:4) but many here seem to not also realize what else happens at this time. Jesus tells us quite plainly:

    Joh 5:28-29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, (29) And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

    All that are in the grave clearly indicates everyone, followers of Christ or not, will rise within that hour. To imply that Jesus actually meant to say "the 1000 year period is coming," instead of "the hour is coming" would be adding mucho text to what is written.


    Raybob

  • #2
    Originally posted by Raybob View Post
    Everyone seems to recognize that the dead in Christ will rise first and those alive shall be caught up (1 Thes. 4:16-5:4) but many here seem to not also realize what else happens at this time. Jesus tells us quite plainly:

    Joh 5:28-29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, (29) And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

    All that are in the grave clearly indicates everyone, followers of Christ or not, will rise within that hour. To imply that Jesus actually meant to say "the 1000 year period is coming," instead of "the hour is coming" would be adding mucho text to what is written.


    Raybob
    "the hour is coming" . This is not an exact 60 minute period, nothing further is implied except that there are two separate resurrections. We can't jump to timing conclusions when the hour so obviously isn't literal.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Raybob View Post
      Everyone seems to recognize that the dead in Christ will rise first and those alive shall be caught up (1 Thes. 4:16-5:4) but many here seem to not also realize what else happens at this time. Jesus tells us quite plainly:

      Joh 5:28-29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, (29) And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

      All that are in the grave clearly indicates everyone, followers of Christ or not, will rise within that hour. To imply that Jesus actually meant to say "the 1000 year period is coming," instead of "the hour is coming" would be adding mucho text to what is written.


      Raybob
      Lets try a few more verses:

      John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

      John 5:25 "Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
      John 5:26 "For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself;
      John 5:27 and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.

      John 5:28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
      John 5:29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
        "the hour is coming" . This is not an exact 60 minute period, nothing further is implied except that there are two separate resurrections. We can't jump to timing conclusions when the hour so obviously isn't literal.
        You either have a shout that continues for centuries or 2 shouts (that there is no mention of)!!!
        "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).

        http://www.evangelicaltruth.com/

        WPM

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Partaker of Christ View Post
          Lets try a few more verses:

          John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

          John 5:25 "Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
          John 5:26 "For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself;
          John 5:27 and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.

          John 5:28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
          John 5:29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

          These are the two resurrections believers experience. Please note the second is the physical resurrection.
          "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).

          http://www.evangelicaltruth.com/

          WPM

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
            "the hour is coming" . This is not an exact 60 minute period, nothing further is implied except that there are two separate resurrections. We can't jump to timing conclusions when the hour so obviously isn't literal.
            "the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth..."


            The point is that it clearly says "all that are in the graves". When the dead in Christ hear, so does everyone else that is in the graves, according to the words of Jesus.

            Raybob

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by wpm View Post
              You either have a shout that continues for centuries or 2 shouts (that there is no mention of)!!!
              Didn't Shaul write that the dead in Messiah rise "at the last trumpet?"

              Peace.
              Ken

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by kenrank View Post
                Didn't Shaul write that the dead in Messiah rise "at the last trumpet?"

                Peace.
                Ken
                Paul wrote about what happens to Christians at this hour but Jesus here tells us what happens to the others, like so many other places in scripture.

                Dan 12:1-2 ... at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. (2) And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
                  "the hour is coming" . This is not an exact 60 minute period, nothing further is implied except that there are two separate resurrections. We can't jump to timing conclusions when the hour so obviously isn't literal.
                  The implication is that all who are in the graves "come forth" at that same hour or time. It does not at all imply two resurrections separated by a significant period of time such as a thousand years. It implies a future singular event or moment in time when this will occur.

                  The same Greek phrase is used here:

                  25These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.

                  Here, Jesus is speaking about an actual time when He would no more speak to them in proverbs but show them plainly. That would happen at some moment in time in the future.

                  The same phrase is also used here:

                  John 7:30 Then they sought to take him: but no man laid hands on him, because his hour was not yet come.

                  John 13:1 Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.

                  Is this speaking of a long period of time to come or a specific moment in time or event that was coming? Clearly, this is referring to Jesus' time to die on the cross.

                  The phrase is also used here:

                  John 12:23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.

                  Once again, it is used in terms of a single point in time and not to a long period of time or to two different points in time.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Raybob View Post
                    "the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth..."


                    The point is that it clearly says "all that are in the graves". When the dead in Christ hear, so does everyone else that is in the graves, according to the words of Jesus.

                    Raybob
                    Exactly. All, saved and lost, who are in the graves will hear His voice at that same hour or time. That is what the text says. Daniel 12:2 is similar.

                    2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

                    Once again, we have no indication whatsoever that the saved are resurrected long before the lost are resurrected. The implication once again is that they are resurrected at the same time and each group is resurrected unto a different eternal destiny.

                    Here is what Paul says:

                    Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

                    There will be a singular resurrection of the dead. Not two resurrections as premils believe. This singular resurrection of the dead will include both the just and unjust.

                    Jesus taught this in the parable of the wheat and tares as well:

                    Matt 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

                    Notice that both the wheat (believers) and the tares (unbelievers) are gathered at the same time. Jesus later explains that the harvest is the end of the age. Jesus returns at the end of the age. At that time, all the dead, saved and lost, will be resurrected and will be gathered before the throne along with those who were still alive for the judgment. That is what we see taught in Matthew 25:31-46 as well. These passages do not allow for an intermediate thousand year time period between the resurrection of the saved and lost or between the reward/judgment of the saved and lost. They all clearly teach that all the dead will be raised at the same time and all will be rewarded/judged at the same time.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by kenrank View Post
                      Didn't Shaul write that the dead in Messiah rise "at the last trumpet?"

                      Peace.
                      Ken
                      Who is Shaul, please?
                      "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).

                      http://www.evangelicaltruth.com/

                      WPM

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by wpm View Post
                        Who is Shaul, please?
                        Duh,

                        Its what you wrap around your shoulders in winter.
                        "Your name and renown
                        is the desire of our hearts."
                        (Isaiah 26:8)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
                          "the hour is coming" . This is not an exact 60 minute period, nothing further is implied except that there are two separate resurrections. We can't jump to timing conclusions when the hour so obviously isn't literal.
                          True.... and neither is the "one thousand years" in Revelation.


                          And I think it was also pointed out that the FIRST resurrection is "Spiritual" & occurs at the time of conversion.
                          The SECOND Resurrection is physical, & occurs as ONE EVENT. The second coming / second resurrection / judgment day, are not several different events at different times.

                          Just as the O.P. notes, ALL shall hear his voice & come forth.... some resurrected to eternal life, & some to eternal condemnation.
                          The same event.
                          Hebrews 11:1 Now Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
                          _______________________________________________
                          There was a time when I used to think Macro-evolution might be a possibility..... but then I GREW UP!
                          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                          Meike & I have the same birthday! Na-na na, na-na!!!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cyberseeker View Post
                            Duh,

                            Its what you wrap around your shoulders in winter.
                            Ahhhhhhh. How stuupit. I should have known.
                            "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).

                            http://www.evangelicaltruth.com/

                            WPM

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by wpm View Post
                              Ahhhhhhh. How stuupit. I should have known.
                              It was so obvious. Come on, Paul, you're slipping.

                              Comment

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