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Hooks In Their Jaws: God Brings Gog And Magog To The Mid-East

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  • randyk
    replied
    Re: Hooks In Their Jaws: God Brings Gog And Magog To The Mid-East

    Originally posted by dan View Post
    As we speak, the Magnetic Nortth Pole is moving at a modest 55 kilometers per year toward Russia. If this were to continue long enough, Lake Baikal could become, conceiveably, the Magnetic North Pole. Would Russia be able to (pardon the pun) weather it? Or, would Russia become a frozen wasteland? It's military and government forced to move south, and occupy Syria?
    The prophecy of Gog and Magog has long been troublesome for me. I would say that it takes place at the end of the Millennium, as Rev 20 indicates. However, this prophecy in Eze 38-39 speaks of the enlightenment of Israel, which takes place at Christ's 2nd Coming.

    So, I think there are 2 parts to the Gog prophecy, the invasion just before Christ's Coming, and the invasion at the end of the Millennium. Who are these people? I think they could be the Russians. But I also think they could be the Asians, who presently have coalesced in Islam against the Christian West. I remain open...

    Leave a comment:


  • dan
    replied
    Re: Hooks In Their Jaws: God Brings Gog And Magog To The Mid-East

    Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
    That is because prior to 1960 Russia, though called a Communist state, was still really an Orthodox one.
    Really? With Lenin murdering 60,000 of the church's clergy? And Stalin murdering 30,000 more?

    Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Russia didn't destroy NATO.
    Terrorism aint over yet.

    Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Only the one reference is about Tiras, the other about Tubal doesn't place it where you do, but also in what we call Turkey.
    BOTH references then connected to Turkey hegemony and NOT Russian.
    Meshec is also in Turkey. In a place on the Russian Turkish border that has seen several turnovers between the two.

    I'll reserve judgment on Tubol until I see more evidence, but until then it's the river east of the Ural Mountains in Russia, on which sits Kurgan and Tobolsk.

    Leave a comment:


  • ForHisglory
    replied
    Re: Hooks In Their Jaws: God Brings Gog And Magog To The Mid-East

    Originally posted by dan View Post
    1960 is just the year of Russia's OVERT support for Islamic Terror, nothing more.
    Russia's purpose was to subvert and possibly destroy NATO, according to some in the CIA.
    As only 5 of NATO's 28 member nations are keeping up their payments of their dues, it appears they may have succeeded.
    if one wished to find what countries have converted to Islam, compare the CIA's assessment in the 1960 Factbook to the 2018 version.
    That is because prior to 1960 Russia, though called a Communist state, was still really an Orthodox one.
    Russia didn't destroy NATO.

    There is an interesting prophecy by someone from BEFORE Russia became a communist country, and dates back I think to 1897.
    The prophecy SPECIFICALLY was about what was going to happen in Turkey and that the Armenians should leave.
    An end point to the prophecy was about God raising up Russia as a Christian nation.

    It is noted in the information regarding the Four Square Gospel and Pentecostalism BEFORE Azuza Street.

    Well, gee, since you admit that their are references to this by the Greeks, my work here is done.
    Only the one reference is about Tiras, the other about Tubal doesn't place it where you do, but also in what we call Turkey.
    BOTH references then connected to Turkey hegemony and NOT Russian.

    Leave a comment:


  • dan
    replied
    Re: Hooks In Their Jaws: God Brings Gog And Magog To The Mid-East

    Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
    My point was about Russia, however what territory has a Muslim state conquered since 1960?
    1960 is just the year of Russia's OVERT support for Islamic Terror, nothing more.

    Russia's purpose was to subvert and possibly destroy NATO, according to some in the CIA.

    As only 5 of NATO's 28 member nations are keeping up their payments of their dues, it appears they may have succeeded.

    if one wished to find what countries have converted to Islam, compare the CIA's assessment in the 1960 Factbook to the 2018 version.

    Originally posted by ForHisGlory,3508515
    Where in the Bible does Japheth name two rivers?
    His sons were listed in Gen 10:2
    Gen 10:2* The sons of Japheth: Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshech, and Tiras.

    Now there is a son called Tubal, which is associated with Cappadocia. It is slightly similar with Tobol, which was called Tobyl before the Russians put it into their language. There is no hostoric nor Biblical connection with the son of Japheth with this region.
    As for Tiras, some think this was the root of the Thracians, who were to the south of the Dniestre River. However there are Ancient Greek sources supporting this idea. This river marked in many ways the furthest extent of the Ottoman Empire.
    Well, gee, since you admit that their are references to this by the Greeks, my work here is done.

    Leave a comment:


  • ForHisglory
    replied
    Re: Hooks In Their Jaws: God Brings Gog And Magog To The Mid-East

    Originally posted by dan View Post
    Oh, does that mean that you believe that all Muslims have given up on conquering any more territory? If so, I feel you are in for a great disappointment.
    My point was about Russia, however what territory has a Muslim state conquered since 1960?

    Did you know that Japeth, son of Noah named two rivers after two of his sons, Tiras and Tubol? The Tiras River is now known as the Dniester, I believe, but the Tobol is still there, in Russia.
    Where in the Bible does Japheth name two rivers?
    His sons were listed in Gen 10:2
    Gen 10:2* The sons of Japheth: Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshech, and Tiras.

    Now there is a son called Tubal, which is associated with Cappadocia. It is slightly similar with Tobol, which was called Tobyl before the Russians put it into their language. There is no hostoric nor Biblical connection with the son of Japheth with this region.
    As for Tiras, some think this was the root of the Thracians, who were to the south of the Dniestre River. However there are Ancient Greek sources supporting this idea. This river marked in many ways the furthest extent of the Ottoman Empire.

    Originally posted by dan View Post
    Oh, does that mean that you believe that all Muslims have given up on conquering any more territory? If so, I feel you are in for a great disappointment.
    My point was about Russia, however what territory has a Muslim state conquered since 1960?

    Did you know that Japeth, son of Noah named two rivers after two of his sons, Tiras and Tubol? The Tiras River is now known as the Dniester, I believe, but the Tobol is still there, in Russia.
    Where in the Bible does Japheth name two rivers?
    His sons were listed in Gen 10:2
    Gen 10:2* The sons of Japheth: Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshech, and Tiras.

    Now there is a son called Tubal, which is associated with Cappadocia. It is slightly similar with Tobol, which was called Tobyl before the Russians put it into their language. There is no hostoric nor Biblical connection with the son of Japheth with this region.
    As for Tiras, some think this was the root of the Thracians, who were to the south of the Dniestre River. However there are Ancient Greek sources supporting this idea. This river marked in many ways the furthest extent of the Ottoman Empire.

    Leave a comment:


  • dan
    replied
    Re: Hooks In Their Jaws: God Brings Gog And Magog To The Mid-East

    Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Since 1960, so really a long time? The Muslims conquered ALL of their territory BEFORE 1960.
    Oh, does that mean that you believe that all Muslims have given up on conquering any more territory? If so, I feel you are in for a great disappointment.

    Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
    God clearly knows the future, but He stated things with terms that people could understand.
    And different people understand things in different ways. I'm content, so far, to see what happens and to judge from that point on.

    Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
    If you mean the Russian flag matches this:
    Rev 9:17 And this is how I saw the horses in my vision and those who rode them: they wore breastplates the color of fire and of sapphire and of sulfur, and the heads of the horses were like lions’ heads, and fire and smoke and sulfur came out of their mouths.

    Then you have a serious problem.
    This is sometimes noted as Red, Blue and Yellow, but the Russian flag, like that of the US and the UK is Red, White and Blue. These colours are found on the Romanian flag:
    [ATTACH=CONFIG]13706[/ATTACH]

    This is why Tim LeHaye has the AntiChrist as a Romanian. Also because Romanians are descendants of Rome, who most consider the Legs of Iron.
    Interesting, I'll keep that in mind.

    Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
    However with God knowing the future, I am pretty certain He knew what He meant when He said Tubal and Meshech. Did you know that Istanbul was called Constantinople and it is found on 7 hills, and sits on many waters. It was also the place where the Church and State were united under the Pontifex Maximus.
    Did you know that Japeth, son of Noah named two rivers after two of his sons, Tiras and Tubol? The Tiras River is now known as the Dniester, I believe, but the Tobol is still there, in Russia.

    Leave a comment:


  • teddyv
    replied
    Re: Hooks In Their Jaws: God Brings Gog And Magog To The Mid-East

    Originally posted by dan View Post
    It occured to me that the Magnetic Polls, if positiioned correctly, would tip the earth enough to turn Russia into a frozen wasteland, necessitating the relocation of the Russian Government.
    Magnetic poles are different than the more or less fixed geographic poles. They have no bearing on the tilt of the earth's axis.

    [/quote]I secretly have a desire to grow oranges and avacodoes in Saskatoon, as well. Lol![/QUOTE]Current climate trends will probably make that a reality.

    Leave a comment:


  • ForHisglory
    replied
    Re: Hooks In Their Jaws: God Brings Gog And Magog To The Mid-East

    Originally posted by dan View Post
    Hmmm, the Russian flag matches the description in another prophecy, and Russia has been the greatest benefactor for weapons that the Muslims have ever had since 1960, so I'll stick with them for now. Well, thanks for that advice, but, unless you can prove tha t God doesn't know the future, I think I'll keep going down this trail until I have to depart from it.

    Keep watchin'.
    Since 1960, so really a long time? The Muslims conquered ALL of their territory BEFORE 1960.

    God clearly knows the future, but He stated things with terms that people could understand.

    If you mean the Russian flag matches this:
    Rev 9:17 And this is how I saw the horses in my vision and those who rode them: they wore breastplates the color of fire and of sapphire and of sulfur, and the heads of the horses were like lions’ heads, and fire and smoke and sulfur came out of their mouths.

    Then you have a serious problem.
    This is sometimes noted as Red, Blue and Yellow, but the Russian flag, like that of the US and the UK is Red, White and Blue. These colours are found on the Romanian flag:
    shutterstock-624905258.jpg

    This is why Tim LeHaye has the AntiChrist as a Romanian. Also because Romanians are descendants of Rome, who most consider the Legs of Iron.

    However with God knowing the future, I am pretty certain He knew what He meant when He said Tubal and Meshech. Did you know that Istanbul was called Constantinople and it is found on 7 hills, and sits on many waters. It was also the place where the Church and State were united under the Pontifex Maximus.

    Originally posted by dan View Post
    Hmmm, the Russian flag matches the description in another prophecy, and Russia has been the greatest benefactor for weapons that the Muslims have ever had since 1960, so I'll stick with them for now. Well, thanks for that advice, but, unless you can prove tha t God doesn't know the future, I think I'll keep going down this trail until I have to depart from it.

    Keep watchin'.
    Since 1960, so really a long time? The Muslims conquered ALL of their territory BEFORE 1960.

    God clearly knows the future, but He stated things with terms that people could understand.

    If you mean the Russian flag matches this:
    Rev 9:17 And this is how I saw the horses in my vision and those who rode them: they wore breastplates the color of fire and of sapphire and of sulfur, and the heads of the horses were like lions’ heads, and fire and smoke and sulfur came out of their mouths.

    Then you have a serious problem.
    This is sometimes noted as Red, Blue and Yellow, but the Russian flag, like that of the US and the UK is Red, White and Blue. These colours are found on the Romanian flag:
    shutterstock-624905258.jpg

    This is why Tim LeHaye has the AntiChrist as a Romanian. Also because Romanians are descendants of Rome, who most consider the Legs of Iron.

    However with God knowing the future, I am pretty certain He knew what He meant when He said Tubal and Meshech. Did you know that Istanbul was called Constantinople and it is found on 7 hills, and sits on many waters. It was also the place where the Church and State were united under the Pontifex Maximus.

    Leave a comment:


  • dan
    replied
    Re: Hooks In Their Jaws: God Brings Gog And Magog To The Mid-East

    Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
    There are a people called the Meshkettian Turks.
    However the Turks entered this region 1,000 years after Jesus came and died for us.
    Tubal is not Tubol - where is the "Tubol River"?
    Tubal is thought to be in Asia Minor and next to Meschech (also in Asia Minor).

    Some (following Jerome) have them as either meaning Spain, or the Tiber River, which would be Rome and Campania.

    The question is where was the place meaning when the prophecy was given. It certainly was not Russia or anywhere near there.
    The almost certain region is what you know as modern Turkey, but was then Asia Minor.


    There are a people called the Meshkettian Turks.
    However the Turks entered this region 1,000 years after Jesus came and died for us.
    Tubal is not Tubol - where is the "Tubol River"?
    Tubal is thought to be in Asia Minor and next to Meschech (also in Asia Minor).

    Some (following Jerome) have them as either meaning Spain, or the Tiber River, which would be Rome and Campania.

    The question is where was the place meaning when the prophecy was given. It certainly was not Russia or anywhere near there.
    The almost certain region is what you know as modern Turkey, but was then Asia Minor.
    Hmmm, the Russian flag matches the description in another prophecy, and Russia has been the greatest benefactor for weapons that the Muslims have ever had since 1960, so I'll stick with them for now. Well, thanks for that advice, but, unless you can prove tha t God doesn't know the future, I think I'll keep going down this trail until I have to depart from it.

    Keep watchin'.

    Leave a comment:


  • ForHisglory
    replied
    Re: Hooks In Their Jaws: God Brings Gog And Magog To The Mid-East

    Originally posted by dan View Post
    A Gog war that doesn't include Russia?
    IMO, the princes of Meschek and Tubal ARE Russia as Tubol is the name of the region in Russia that is drained by the Tubol River, and Meshek is the Meschetti region where Turkey and Russia meet, different spellings notwithstanding.
    There are a people called the Meshkettian Turks.
    However the Turks entered this region 1,000 years after Jesus came and died for us.
    Tubal is not Tubol - where is the "Tubol River"?
    Tubal is thought to be in Asia Minor and next to Meschech (also in Asia Minor).

    Some (following Jerome) have them as either meaning Spain, or the Tiber River, which would be Rome and Campania.

    The question is where was the place meaning when the prophecy was given. It certainly was not Russia or anywhere near there.
    The almost certain region is what you know as modern Turkey, but was then Asia Minor.

    Originally posted by dan View Post
    A Gog war that doesn't include Russia?
    IMO, the princes of Meschek and Tubal ARE Russia as Tubol is the name of the region in Russia that is drained by the Tubol River, and Meshek is the Meschetti region where Turkey and Russia meet, different spellings notwithstanding.
    There are a people called the Meshkettian Turks.
    However the Turks entered this region 1,000 years after Jesus came and died for us.
    Tubal is not Tubol - where is the "Tubol River"?
    Tubal is thought to be in Asia Minor and next to Meschech (also in Asia Minor).

    Some (following Jerome) have them as either meaning Spain, or the Tiber River, which would be Rome and Campania.

    The question is where was the place meaning when the prophecy was given. It certainly was not Russia or anywhere near there.
    The almost certain region is what you know as modern Turkey, but was then Asia Minor.

    Leave a comment:


  • dan
    replied
    Re: Hooks In Their Jaws: God Brings Gog And Magog To The Mid-East

    Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
    I wish you would all use scripture to interpret prophesy not science, false teachers, or CNN.

    Gog is not Russia. (and there is no Russian collusion ).

    The reason why Russia is not Gog is at the time of these events Russia does not exist!!!

    Prior to these events the cities of the world have been destroyed and the world is a wilderness.

    7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

    16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
    17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

    3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

    Is Russia and the USA around when Christ returns? No, so neither will they when the AntiChrist returns.

    So who are the hooks drawing out? Satan not Putin.

    Job 41
    1 Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down?
    31 He maketh the deep to boil like a pot: he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment.
    32 He maketh a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be hoary.
    33 Upon earth there is not his like, who is made without fear.
    34 He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.
    Well, without regard for what you have worked out in the scenario you support, I am always on the lookout for possible effects that could affect prophecy.

    No offfense, of course.

    I believe that Putin is one of Satan's representatives on the earth, and, therefore, will be the one that is drawn out.

    I believe that the "wounded head" of the first beast has already blasphemed God, on TV no less, and I await the second beast's advocation for a memorial or statue to the first beast.

    Leave a comment:


  • dan
    replied
    Re: Hooks In Their Jaws: God Brings Gog And Magog To The Mid-East

    Originally posted by teddyv View Post
    Why do you think that the north magnetic poles would have anything to do with the weather in Russia?
    It occured to me that the Magnetic Polls, if positiioned correctly, would tip the earth enough to turn Russia into a frozen wasteland, necessitating the relocation of the Russian Government.

    I secretly have a desire to grow oranges and avacodoes in Saskatoon, as well. Lol!

    Leave a comment:


  • dan
    replied
    Re: Hooks In Their Jaws: God Brings Gog And Magog To The Mid-East

    Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
    I think that pundit was speaking about the USSR, which at the time included a number of Muslim states, which are no longer part of it. There are a few autonomous regions, but there is no way for this to be true now.
    The percentage Muslim is 6.5%, however unlike in other countries the majority of these are unaffiliated with any branch of Islam, and only 2.4 million are affiliated as Sunni making 1.6%.

    In the USA the percentage is presently less at 1.1%, but is expected to more than double by 2050.

    However I do not see Russia as part of a Gog war.
    A Gog war that doesn't include Russia?

    IMO, the princes of Meschek and Tubal ARE Russia as Tubol is the name of the region in Russia that is drained by the Tubol River, and Meshek is the Meschetti region where Turkey and Russia meet, different spellings notwithstanding.

    Leave a comment:


  • ross3421
    replied
    Re: Hooks In Their Jaws: God Brings Gog And Magog To The Mid-East

    Originally posted by Walls View Post
    One thousand is an exact number.
    Is 1000 an exact number here?

    But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

    So my question remains: On what basis to you take everything literally but this one word that is mentioned SIX times in seven verses and is made specific by the article before it THREE TIMES?

    So why is the number "1000" a metaphor and does not actually mean specifically 1000 years?

    John is trying to quantify a measure of time which is unmeasurable. Now why is it unmeasurable? Well outside this realm wherein the sun, moon, and stars gives us the ability to measure time there is are no instruments to measure time outside this realm. Thus John when speaking of how long Satan is in the pit uses the number 1000.

    Why does John use 1000? Why not 100 or 1 million?

    Well the number 1000 was used in scripture for the same purpose as a metaphor thus the Spirit has John use the same number for consistency. Both instances are used as a metaphor and not a literal 1000 years.

    Peter 2
    8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

    Are there any other scriptures which may show timelessness outside this realm which would support the need to use a metaphor?

    Yes. John himself in trying to determine a length of an event has to surmise at the time prior to the 7th seal being opened. Was John not sure, did not the Spirit give him the specific time? No John could not be sure as time outside this realm is not measured. Though the time was relatively short he knew it was "about" a half hour.

    Rev 20:8
    1. And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

    Other events contradict the possibility of a literal 1000 years.

    The resurrection of the dead both godly and ungodly occurs on the same day and not 1000+ years apart. Actually the saved are judged also at the GWT

    Are there really two little seasons? We see one in Rev 6 before Christs returns? Are they different or really the same time?

    Are there really two instances whereby an entity comes up from the bottomless pit? We see a beast come up AFTER 3.5 years referenced in Rev 11 and Rev 17. Which beast could this possibly be? The other beasts are already on earth. Also is the pit really like a revolving door? Open and shut, and open and shut again and then opened one last time?

    Does not IS 14 already so Satan in the pit prior to the 2nd coming? Does he go down twice?

    Are there really two great battles which take place whereby the whole world is gathered?. We see the battle of the great day in Rev 16 and another in Rev 20, different or the same?

    Does not the earth burn with unquenchable fire at the presence of the Lord at his return. Does not the sun, moon, stars and old earth roll up as a scroll at the 2nd coming? Thus the old earth passes away and a new earth would replace it. Is the supposed millennium with a new earth?

    When one looks at all the events in rev 20:1-9 they have already occurred before Christ returned.


    Satan will yet be thrown into the pit for a specific time. John uses 1000 years metaphorically as he cannot determine the length of time as time is not measured outside this realm. Satan is thrown into the pit in Rev 12 and is the beast which comes up from the pit Rev 17. Again the 1000 years is a metaphor.

    Leave a comment:


  • Walls
    replied
    Re: Hooks In Their Jaws: God Brings Gog And Magog To The Mid-East

    Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
    Who said I think Rev 20 is total allegory. Let's make sure the reader understands this was your interpretation and add.

    I stated that the one word "1000" is a metaphor just as used in 2 Peter the action remains.

    "a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable."

    So go back and reread my post correctly.
    Exactly. You have taken the bulk of the Chapter as literal, but this ONE WORD you takes as a "metaphor". On what basis?

    And then you went further than a metaphor. You set about explaining a hidden meaning. That is allegory. But you brought not a single bit of proof. The contrary is shown to be the case. One thousand is an exact number. When John, inspired by the Holy Spirit, wanted to show an UNCOUNTABLE number he said so.

    "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands." (Revelation 7:9).

    So my question remains: On what basis to you take everything literally but this one word that is mentioned SIX times in seven verses and is made specific by the article before it THREE TIMES?

    Leave a comment:

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