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Who are the Saints at Rev 14:12?

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  • #16
    Re: Who are the Saints at Rev 14:12?

    Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Al souls belong to God, but that doesn't mean every soul is in the Book of Life. Two separate thoughts which you seemed to have joined together.
    It is because all souls belong to God that He has the right to destroy that soul in the LoF.

    The Book of Life, is I believe exactly what it is called, a Book in which God writes those who will receive life.
    I think for example when the OT notes that Abram had it credited to him as righteousness, was Abram having his name written in the book of Life.
    Gen 15:6* And he believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness.
    So how then can the unsaved be blotted out from something they were never in to start with?

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    • #17
      Re: Who are the Saints at Rev 14:12?

      Originally posted by Eyelog View Post
      Who are the saints who will still be around in the world to be tempted to worship the beast and his image and receive the mark?
      12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

      Well I think most would say all believers. However it appears to be a specific sect of the saints. Why? Do to the mention of those that keep the commandments. This to me is a reference to those of Israel which have also faith in Jesus which will be the 144,000. Note we see then in the start of the chapter already on Zion with Christ which would indicate already dead and those which overcame.

      13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

      This is a key verse to understand. At first glance it seems strange …. "blessed are the dead"?. You see those in verse 12 ARE these dead which shall be blessed. They had the patience, patience in the sense of fighting the good fight unto death and not succumbing to the mark. Also which can be confusing is the text.... "which die in the Lord henceforth" How can they die if they are already dead? Rather what the text is saying is blessed which are those dead which die in the Lord as from this point forward their works will follow them.

      I still question why the saints, whose names are in the book of life, should have to worry about persevering, because it is those whose names are not in the book who will worship and take the mark.
      I think your bible's interpretation of "preserve" is throwing you off. Not that the translation is not entirely accurate but it leaves to further translation by the reader. The reader then thinks one is being protected or keep thru the ordeal. Rather a better translation is "patience" which then does not allow for translation error. Further confusion is added when the interpretation error of the following verse is added.

      Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

      Being "kept from the hour of temptation" does not mean those will not be around when it happens rather when it happens God's will give strength to endure unto death and falling during this temptation.

      This is further supported with the following that with patience thru death they may be saved.

      He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.


      It is the trying of, not the removal from which tests our faith which creates patience and thus preservation. Preservation to overcome not preserved by removal.

      James 1:3
      Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

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      • #18
        Re: Who are the Saints at Rev 14:12?

        Originally posted by Walls View Post
        "Here is the patience of the saints: here are (1) they that keep the commandments of God[/I] (the Remnant of Israel), and (2) the faith of Jesus[/COLOR] (the Christians who must pass through the Great Tribulation)."

        The "PATIENCE" of the saints the "patience" to endure what God has set before them. The test is great. The Beast has the world by the throat. No man can buy, sell, see a doctor or travel without the Mark of the Beast. Like Nebuchadnezzar's time, men must bow down to the Beast's idol-effigy or DIE. Life is unbearable as nature tuns to chaos. In all this, the temptation to get a measure of relief is great. Standing up to the Beast means DEATH. Not taking his Mark means utter hardship. Who will keep the Law and who will keep the testimony of Jesus? SOME DO, for we find in Revelation 20:4,

        "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus (Christians), and for the word of God (Israelites), and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

        A Christian who is left on earth during the Great Tribulation has one last chance to be an Overcomer - defy the Beast UNTO DEATH
        Agree Walls. Very good. Though all will have to exhibit patience unto death you rightly see Rev 14 and Rev 20 is specific to Israel 144,000. I would say "saints" from Rev 12 onward it is about Israel and not to the church. But I would also have you envision the landscape during this time, I don't see many doctor's offices and people going to Florida for vacation. Why go to a doctor when you have the great (phony) physician before you! Will there even be any places to travel? Are you going to travel into the wilderness…...

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        • #19
          Re: Who are the Saints at Rev 14:12?

          Originally posted by Eyelog View Post
          Who are the saints who will still be around in the world to be tempted to worship the beast and his image and receive the mark?
          It is pretty simple, there is no 'whisked away' 'rapture'. What people mistake as being 'whisked away' is actually being 'gathered' by the 'angels'/ 'messengers'. So, the faithful will be gathered, but the beast is still waging war on the gathered saints that are still physically on earth.

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          • #20
            Re: Who are the Saints at Rev 14:12?

            Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
            So how then can the unsaved be blotted out from something they were never in to start with?
            Israel is not unsaved, unless they sin.

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            • #21
              Re: Who are the Saints at Rev 14:12?

              Great and terrible events are about to hit the unaware and complacent people of this world.
              When you read prophecies like Zephaniah 1:14-16, Isaiah 13:9-12 and Revelation 6:12-17
              then you know that any attempt to avoid or hide from Godís judgement is futile.

              THIS is our promise;
              Daniel 12:1 At that time will appear Michael, the great Captain who stands guarding your fellow countrymen and there will be a time of anguish, such as has never been known.
              But at that moment your people [righteous Christian Israelites] will be delivered. Everyone whose name is entered in the Book [of Life].. every faithful Christian.


              1 Peter 4:17 The time has come for the Judgement to begin; it is beginning with Godís own household and if it is starting with us, how will it end for those who refuse to obey the Gospel of God? Scripture says; it is hard enough for the righteous to be saved Ė what then will become of the sinful?
              So let those who suffer according to Godís will entrust their souls to Him, while continuing to do good. Their Maker will not fail them.


              Malachi 3:16-17 Those who believed in and respected the Lord, discussed His Word and the Lord heard them. A record was Written of their names and the Lord said: They will be Mine, on the Day that I appoint and I shall spare them, as a man spares his child who serves him.

              Isaiah 30:18 The Lord is waiting to show you His favour, He yearns to have pity on you, for the Lord is full of justice. Happy are you who wait on Him.

              Romans 12:11-13 With unflagging zeal, aglow with the Spirit, serve the Lord. Let hope keep you joyful; in trouble stand firm; persist in prayer, contribute to the needs of Godís people and practice hospitality.

              Colossians 1:11-12 In His glorious might may He give you ample strength to meet with fortitude and patience whatever comes and to give joyful thanks to the Father, who has made you fit to share in the heritage of His people in His Kingdom of light.

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              • #22
                Re: Who are the Saints at Rev 14:12?

                They are the 144,000..commandments of God (Jewish) and the faith of Jesus.

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                • #23
                  Re: Who are the Saints at Rev 14:12?

                  Originally posted by blur1 View Post
                  It is pretty simple, there is no 'whisked away' 'rapture'. What people mistake as being 'whisked away' is actually being 'gathered' by the 'angels'/ 'messengers'. So, the faithful will be gathered, but the beast is still waging war on the gathered saints that are still physically on earth.
                  All the faithful are gathered not just some of them. When this rapture gathering happens, the GT is over and the beast no longer can persecute the faithful. This whole thing happens so they can join the army that follows Christ here found in Rev 19.
                  James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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