Re: The white horse in Revelation 6. Who or what is signified?
The word is a Persian word originally, it meant Gardens, but the Jews came to see Paradise as a place where the Jewish Spirits made their abode until the Resurrection and that would have to be Jesus' understanding because he knew he would't be in Heaven for 3 days.
#3857 παράδεισος paradeisos {par-ad'-i-sos}
of Oriental origin, cf H6508; TDNT - 5:765,777; n m
—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) among the Persians a grand enclosure or preserve, hunting
ground, park, shady and well watered, in which wild animals,
were kept for the hunt; it was enclosed by walls and furnished
with towers for the hunters
2) a garden, pleasure ground
2a) grove, park
3) the part of Hades which was thought by the later Jews to be
the abode of the souls of pious until the resurrection: but
some understand this to be a heavenly paradise
It means he preached to the Jewish Saints in a holding state of being......Kinda like Paul stated he was a Slave of Christ when we all know it really meant a Servant of Christ.
Read the passage I gave you {1 Chronicles 24:7-19}, it specifically speaks about the 24 orders of Priests and Rev. ch. 5 and 7 tells us we are heirs and priests unto God.
I clearly with SCRIPTURES show what the Church is PROMISED in Rev. chapters 2 and 3 and in Rev. 4 where the Church in Heaven get the EXACT THINGS that they were PROMISED !! You don't think the Elders are there but the Church comes later do you ? Of course this is just more proof the Rapture is Pre tribulation.
Didn't Jesus tell us we would have CONTINUAL TRIBULATION ? So they came out of the 2000 some odd year Church Age [Great Tribulation]. We are the ones that MANDATE John has to be speaking of Greatest ever troubles, instead of the Greatest TIME PERIOD EVER. But the facts show John is speaking about the Great Tribulation of the Church Age as in 2000>7. The Martyrs under the Altar are told they MUST WAIT until the Beasts 42 Months reign is over. So those in Rev. 4 and 5 {Rev. 5 shows a Great Multitude that is REDEEMED} are the same ones John sees in Rev. 7, he sees them both BEFORE and AFTER the Seals are opened !! And n Rev. 20:4, it clearly says THOSE hat laid down their lives instead of serving THE BEAST will live and reign on earth with Christ Jesus for 1000 years. The Martyrs are JUDGED after the Second Coming.
Those in Chapter 12 are the REMNANT CHURCH who come unto Christ AFTER the Rapture.......Think like this......THEY CAN'T BE Jews. The 1/3 who Repent, God will protect, the 2/3 who refuse to Repent will perish, BUT......They thus can't have the Testimony of Jesus can they ? So JEWS DO NOT FIT AT ALL......The Remnant Church does fit.
SAME, the Remnant Church are the MARTYRS.
God calls Israel to come out of Babylon {The Wicked World whom he is about to Judge} lest they PARTAKE IN HER SINS and receive her Plagues. That is shown elsewhere, Jesus tells the Jews to FLEE Judea when they see the Abomination of Desolation. The 144,000 are the Jews who FLEE Judea, it's just a Metaphoric number for ALL ISRAEL. 12 means Fullness thus 12 x 12,000 = ALL ISRAEL.
Rev. 18 also tells of Babylon being a Habitation of devils, and of course it is, Satan has been cast down and Apollyon has been released from the Bottomless Pit. Babylon is the WHOLE WORLD being hit with the Seal, Trumpet and Vial Judgments, thus the COMMERCE is destroyed.
I understand all of Revelation my friend, thanks to prayer, hard work and blessings, mostly over the last 5 years, whereas for 25 years I was stuck because I was into MEN'S TRADITIONS like people are today. I mean I knew a lot, but holding on to old understandings of Men from years ago stops God from teaching us His understandings. Like those in Heaven HAVING to be from the Great Tribulation/70th Week, all because we PIGEONHOLE God's Vocabulary !! Millions of Church members died during our 2000 some odd year ordeal. We overcame Rome by our blood. Thus Rome suffered the Mortal Wound.
The Seals begin at the 1260 as does the Anti-Christ via Daniel chapter 12.
Jesus OPENS the Seals, he is not the White Horse, that is the Anti-Christ.
Originally posted by Walls
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#3857 παράδεισος paradeisos {par-ad'-i-sos}
of Oriental origin, cf H6508; TDNT - 5:765,777; n m
—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) among the Persians a grand enclosure or preserve, hunting
ground, park, shady and well watered, in which wild animals,
were kept for the hunt; it was enclosed by walls and furnished
with towers for the hunters
2) a garden, pleasure ground
2a) grove, park
3) the part of Hades which was thought by the later Jews to be
the abode of the souls of pious until the resurrection: but
some understand this to be a heavenly paradise
He did NOT preach to the spirits in Prison. The main theme of 1st Peter is the Holy Spirit. See 1:2, 1:11, 1:22, 3:4, 3:18-19 and 4:14. When we come to 1st Peter 3:18-20 the grammar reads;
18 "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."
There are no verse divisions in the original text, nor punctuation. So the end of verse 18 going into 19 is one thought. It is,
but quickened by the Spirit By which also he (the Spirit) went (in those days) and preached unto the spirits (now) in prison;"
That is, our Lord Jesus was made alive BY the SAME Spirit that inspired Noah to preach to the angels of Noah's time, but who are now in prison for mating with human women (2nd Pet.2:4).
18 "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."
There are no verse divisions in the original text, nor punctuation. So the end of verse 18 going into 19 is one thought. It is,
but quickened by the Spirit By which also he (the Spirit) went (in those days) and preached unto the spirits (now) in prison;"
That is, our Lord Jesus was made alive BY the SAME Spirit that inspired Noah to preach to the angels of Noah's time, but who are now in prison for mating with human women (2nd Pet.2:4).
On what basis do you declare the 24 Elders the Church? The evidence is against such a supposition.
The number of Israel, the Church and New Jerusalem is twelve, - not 24
John was raptured to heaven to see them and returned to write about them. That means they were there in 95 AD. What is more, even in 95 AD they were already "ELDERS" - having been there a long time.
The only mention of 24 in the Bible is when David followed the "Pattern" of the heavenly Temple. He instituted the service to the Tabernacle and coming Temple to 24 periods of two weeks for the Levites (1st Chron.23:1-6). Twenty-four then is the number of the service in the Temple ON EARTH which in turn was made to the pattern of the Temple IN HEAVEN.
The number of Israel, the Church and New Jerusalem is twelve, - not 24
John was raptured to heaven to see them and returned to write about them. That means they were there in 95 AD. What is more, even in 95 AD they were already "ELDERS" - having been there a long time.
The only mention of 24 in the Bible is when David followed the "Pattern" of the heavenly Temple. He instituted the service to the Tabernacle and coming Temple to 24 periods of two weeks for the Levites (1st Chron.23:1-6). Twenty-four then is the number of the service in the Temple ON EARTH which in turn was made to the pattern of the Temple IN HEAVEN.
I clearly with SCRIPTURES show what the Church is PROMISED in Rev. chapters 2 and 3 and in Rev. 4 where the Church in Heaven get the EXACT THINGS that they were PROMISED !! You don't think the Elders are there but the Church comes later do you ? Of course this is just more proof the Rapture is Pre tribulation.
And finally, if the Church is in heaven,
how then did the great multitude connected with Jesus in Chapter 7 go through the Great Tribulation?
how then did the great multitude connected with Jesus in Chapter 7 go through the Great Tribulation?
how then are those in Chapter 12, who have the testimony of Jesus Christ, persecuted by the Dragon ON EARTH during the 1260 days?
how then are the saints OVERCOME by the Beast in Revelation 13:8. The Beast is ON EARTH?
how then, at the verge of Babylon the Great being destroyed, which is at the end of the Great Tribulation, God makes a call for "His people" to come out of her?
Rev. 18 also tells of Babylon being a Habitation of devils, and of course it is, Satan has been cast down and Apollyon has been released from the Bottomless Pit. Babylon is the WHOLE WORLD being hit with the Seal, Trumpet and Vial Judgments, thus the COMMERCE is destroyed.
My friend, I think you might have to rethink some parts of Revelation. In my first post in this thread (#2), I laid forth a reasonable argument that our Lord Jesus,Who can be everywhere any time, is not only the OPENER of the Seals, but the White Horse and Rider. Convince me that I need to rethink my position? I'm always open to learn.
The Seals begin at the 1260 as does the Anti-Christ via Daniel chapter 12.
Jesus OPENS the Seals, he is not the White Horse, that is the Anti-Christ.
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