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  • Re: Question for partial preterist

    Originally posted by jeffweeder
    Thanks for those scriptures Marty.

    I still wonder about native Australians , New Zealanders.
    We try to keep under the radar, down under.
    "Your name and renown
    is the desire of our hearts."
    (Isaiah 26:8)

    Comment


    • Re: Question for partial preterist

      Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
      None of these wonderful scriptures you cited proves that the Gospel was preached to all the world at the time of Paul. Remember that even Paul would not have known that the unknown world at that time was far greater than the Roman world they knew.
      So why did Paul sat them what did he mean?

      My point again is that Paul and Jesus used the same words so they meant the same thing

      Comment


      • Re: Question for partial preterist

        Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
        I believe the Pharisees were referring to the multitude that followed Jesus. The passages are not a reference to the nations of the world following Jesus since they had not yet received the Gospel.
        Exactly so if the Pharisees and Paul didn’t mean the whole world then why does everybody think that Jesus meant the whole world as they did say the same words and the same time in history?

        Comment


        • Re: Question for partial preterist

          Originally posted by marty fox View Post
          Exactly so if the Pharisees and Paul didn’t mean the whole world then why does everybody think that Jesus meant the whole world as they did say the same words and the same time in history?
          In Matthew 24:14 we are told the gospel shall be preached unto all the nations. The Greek word for "nations" is:

          G1484
          ἔθνος
          ethnos
          eth'-nos
          Probably from G1486; a race (as of the same habit), that is, a tribe; specifically a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usually by implication pagan): - Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

          Well, what do you know. It looks like the world to me.
          John 15:17 "These things I command you, that ye love one another."

          Comment


          • Re: Question for partial preterist

            Originally posted by Deade View Post
            In Matthew 24:14 we are told the gospel shall be preached unto all the nations. The Greek word for "nations" is:

            G1484
            ἔθνος
            ethnos
            eth'-nos
            Probably from G1486; a race (as of the same habit), that is, a tribe; specifically a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usually by implication pagan): - Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

            Well, what do you know. It looks like the world to me.
            And so does Acts chapter 2

            Originally posted by Deade View Post
            In Matthew 24:14 we are told the gospel shall be preached unto all the nations. The Greek word for "nations" is:

            G1484
            ἔθνος
            ethnos
            eth'-nos
            Probably from G1486; a race (as of the same habit), that is, a tribe; specifically a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usually by implication pagan): - Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

            Well, what do you know. It looks like the world to me.
            And so does Acts chapter 2

            Comment


            • Re: Question for partial preterist

              Originally posted by marty fox View Post
              So why did Paul sat them what did he mean?

              My point again is that Paul and Jesus used the same words so they meant the same thing
              Actually what is ALWAYS missed is CONTEXT.
              People ALWAYS look at the similarity of words RATHER than questioning and understanding the differences.

              Paul did NOT say the gospel had gone to the whole world.

              Comment


              • Re: Question for partial preterist

                Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                Reread them again they are pas-tense with words like had and has

                Romans Ch 1:8
                8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world
                Is the wqords underlined the past tense? Nope, it is the present continuous speaking of an action which has has started and is continuing.

                and
                Ch10:17-18
                ,17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ. 18 But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did:
                “Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
                their words to the ends of the world.”
                Now this one you can claim is the past tense, but what is Paul quoting?
                He is quoting a Psalm which is NOT speaking about the gospel of Jesus but about the knowledge of God through Creation. Further though Paul is addressing the situation with Israel:
                Rom 10:19* But I ask, did Israel not understand? First Moses says, “I will make you jealous of those who are not a nation; with a foolish nation I will make you angry.”*
                Rom 10:20* Then Isaiah is so bold as to say, “I have been found by those who did not seek me; I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me.”*
                Rom 10:21* But of Israel he says, “All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and contrary people.”

                Paul also mentions it in
                Colossians Ch 1:6
                6 that has come to you. In the same way, the gospel is bearing fruit and growing throughout the whole world—just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and truly understood God’s grace.
                Here we have the present continuous again, not the past tense.

                and Ch 1:23
                23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant
                .
                Note here, the past tense is for the person who has heard, and also about the form of gospel (noted also in Romans) which was proclaimed to every creature.

                This proclamation to CREATION is not the same as the proclamation to the INDIVIDUAL.
                This is why Paul also states:
                Rom 15:20* and thus I make it my ambition to preach the gospel, not where Christ has already been named, lest I build on someone else's foundation,*
                ...
                Rom 15:24* I hope to see you in passing as I go to Spain, and to be helped on my journey there by you, once I have enjoyed your company for a while.*

                So Paul declares IN Romans that his ambition is to go where the gospel and name of Christ is NOT YET named, so clearly he is NOT arguing in the one letter BOTH that the Name of Christ has gone out into the whole world, and that he is going where Christ has not been named. He thus plans to go to Spain.

                Comment


                • Re: Question for partial preterist

                  Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                  I'm not talking about pre-trib events. I'm only talking about Rev 13's 42 months when the AC appears and rules.
                  I'm not sure what you mean by "pre-trib events" because the great tribulation will certainly occur during the AC's 42 months. I see the GT as part of the pre-trib events as you put it.

                  No, I don't.
                  You don't, and you have nothing to counter my position?

                  What you posted is not from the time of Rev 11 which is thee and of the GT and shows the only damage to the city is done by Earthquake not people and a 10th of the city falls not 100 percent like the AD70 people claim.
                  If you say so.

                  QUOTE]I don't know if or when it will be fulfilled or if it already was.[/QUOTE]

                  I appreciate your candour. Am I to assume that despite the fact you don't know when Zech 14:2-4 will be fulfilled, you're still unable to accept my explanation? Or, do you accept it as true?

                  OT prophecies could have been future and still fulfilled before the NT was written.
                  True, but you have already accepted that you don't know when the text will be fulfilled.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Question for partial preterist

                    Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                    So why did Paul sat them what did he mean?

                    My point again is that Paul and Jesus used the same words so they meant the same thing
                    Not true, Marty. Paul might not have known that the world extended more than the Roman empire, but Jesus certainly knew. And we must accept what Jesus said over that of Paul even though none of them contradicts each other.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Question for partial preterist

                      Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                      Exactly so if the Pharisees and Paul didn’t mean the whole world then why does everybody think that Jesus meant the whole world as they did say the same words and the same time in history?
                      The context is the key. Every use of the term "nations of the world" may not necessarily have the same meaning depending on the context.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Question for partial preterist

                        Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                        Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
                        Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

                        This is no ordinary preaching of the gospel but is a global preaching just before the end of the world. The gospel will be preached, and then the end comes which is the second coming and the end of this current world/age. This is yet another reason this wasn't accomplished or even related to anything in AD70.
                        Right on point....

                        Comment


                        • Re: Question for partial preterist

                          Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
                          I'm not sure what you mean by "pre-trib events" because the great tribulation will certainly occur during the AC's 42 months. I see the GT as part of the pre-trib events as you put it.
                          The GT is 42 months and that is found starting in Rev 13. Everything in Rev 12 is before the GT so is "pre-trib events"




                          I appreciate your candour. Am I to assume that despite the fact you don't know when Zech 14:2-4 will be fulfilled, you're still unable to accept my explanation? Or, do you accept it as true?
                          Like I said, I don't see any of it happening in John's vision where the GT is spoken of. OT scriptures can easily be of other historical events.

                          Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
                          I'm not sure what you mean by "pre-trib events" because the great tribulation will certainly occur during the AC's 42 months. I see the GT as part of the pre-trib events as you put it.
                          The GT is 42 months and that is found starting in Rev 13. Everything in Rev 12 is before the GT so is "pre-trib events"




                          I appreciate your candour. Am I to assume that despite the fact you don't know when Zech 14:2-4 will be fulfilled, you're still unable to accept my explanation? Or, do you accept it as true?
                          Like I said, I don't see any of it happening in John's vision where the GT is spoken of. OT scriptures can easily be of other historical events.
                          James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Question for partial preterist

                            Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                            The GT is 42 months and that is found starting in Rev 13. Everything in Rev 12 is before the GT so is "pre-trib events"
                            Normally "pre-trib" denotes pre-tribulation rapture. I haven't heard of *pre-trib events*. It's a new one on me.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Question for partial preterist

                              Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
                              Normally "pre-trib" denotes pre-tribulation rapture. I haven't heard of *pre-trib events*. It's a new one on me.
                              Yes many claim the rapture occurs pre-trib but it does not but many things do occur pre or before the trib begins.

                              Here are some actual pre-trib events:

                              Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
                              Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
                              Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
                              James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Question for partial preterist

                                Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
                                Is the wqords underlined the past tense? Nope, it is the present continuous speaking of an action which has has started and is continuing.


                                Now this one you can claim is the past tense, but what is Paul quoting?
                                He is quoting a Psalm which is NOT speaking about the gospel of Jesus but about the knowledge of God through Creation. Further though Paul is addressing the situation with Israel:
                                Rom 10:19* But I ask, did Israel not understand? First Moses says, “I will make you jealous of those who are not a nation; with a foolish nation I will make you angry.”*
                                Rom 10:20* Then Isaiah is so bold as to say, “I have been found by those who did not seek me; I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me.”*
                                Rom 10:21* But of Israel he says, “All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and contrary people.”


                                Here we have the present continuous again, not the past tense.


                                Note here, the past tense is for the person who has heard, and also about the form of gospel (noted also in Romans) which was proclaimed to every creature.

                                This proclamation to CREATION is not the same as the proclamation to the INDIVIDUAL.
                                This is why Paul also states:
                                Rom 15:20* and thus I make it my ambition to preach the gospel, not where Christ has already been named, lest I build on someone else's foundation,*
                                ...
                                Rom 15:24* I hope to see you in passing as I go to Spain, and to be helped on my journey there by you, once I have enjoyed your company for a while.*

                                So Paul declares IN Romans that his ambition is to go where the gospel and name of Christ is NOT YET named, so clearly he is NOT arguing in the one letter BOTH that the Name of Christ has gone out into the whole world, and that he is going where Christ has not been named. He thus plans to go to Spain.
                                Is being means that it’s happened and is still happening

                                Romans 10 actually stats that it is about Christ it may refer to a psalm but it is talking about Jesus

                                Is bearing fruit and growing is saying that it has happened and growing

                                Wasn’t Romans written before Colossians?

                                Doesn’t really matter Paul states proclaims that it was preached

                                Once again I’m not saying that the whole world heard it I am saying that Paul was using the same words and meaning as Jesus

                                Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
                                Is the wqords underlined the past tense? Nope, it is the present continuous speaking of an action which has has started and is continuing.


                                Now this one you can claim is the past tense, but what is Paul quoting?
                                He is quoting a Psalm which is NOT speaking about the gospel of Jesus but about the knowledge of God through Creation. Further though Paul is addressing the situation with Israel:
                                Rom 10:19* But I ask, did Israel not understand? First Moses says, “I will make you jealous of those who are not a nation; with a foolish nation I will make you angry.”*
                                Rom 10:20* Then Isaiah is so bold as to say, “I have been found by those who did not seek me; I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me.”*
                                Rom 10:21* But of Israel he says, “All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and contrary people.”


                                Here we have the present continuous again, not the past tense.


                                Note here, the past tense is for the person who has heard, and also about the form of gospel (noted also in Romans) which was proclaimed to every creature.

                                This proclamation to CREATION is not the same as the proclamation to the INDIVIDUAL.
                                This is why Paul also states:
                                Rom 15:20* and thus I make it my ambition to preach the gospel, not where Christ has already been named, lest I build on someone else's foundation,*
                                ...
                                Rom 15:24* I hope to see you in passing as I go to Spain, and to be helped on my journey there by you, once I have enjoyed your company for a while.*

                                So Paul declares IN Romans that his ambition is to go where the gospel and name of Christ is NOT YET named, so clearly he is NOT arguing in the one letter BOTH that the Name of Christ has gone out into the whole world, and that he is going where Christ has not been named. He thus plans to go to Spain.
                                Is being means that it’s happened and is still happening

                                Romans 10 actually stats that it is about Christ it may refer to a psalm but it is talking about Jesus

                                Is bearing fruit and growing is saying that it has happened and growing

                                Wasn’t Romans written before Colossians?

                                Doesn’t really matter Paul states proclaims that it was preached

                                Once again I’m not saying that the whole world heard it I am saying that Paul was using the same words and meaning as Jesus

                                Comment

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