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  • Re: Question for partial preterist

    Originally posted by jeffweeder View Post
    Doesn't the following verse suggest that the end doesn't immediately follow the fall of the temple?

    6 You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end.


    Luke speaks of the wrath and exile of Jews because of the war , and then the trampling of Jerusalem by Gentiles, until the times of the gentiles over Jerusalem are over.

    What verses in the olivet do you apply to his second coming?
    If Matthew 24 was prophecy relating to 70AD, then are we to believe the gospel was preached in the whole world by 70AD? The apostle Thomas was still making his way down into southern India in 72AD when he was martyred. By no means had his gospel spread throughout all of India by the time the temple was destroyed, not to mention all the rest of the habitable world.

    Matthew 24:14
    "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

    Comment


    • Re: Question for partial preterist

      Where does its say a worldwide tribulation in Matthew 24. You are forgetting the audience that is being spoken to by Jesus and the CONTEXT of the passage. The audience is not a universal or "Gentile" audience, it is the believing Jews of 33 AD. It involves the destruction of the Temple and and end of the age (vss 2-3). What age? The age which the Old Covenant Jews were in at the time, of course, the end of the OLD Covenant Age and the end of the age of the Old Covenant people, the Jews. In Verse 29 , Jesus is quoting directly from numerous Old testament passages from Isiah and others which describes in apocalyptic terms the judgement of various nations of the Middle East pre-Christ, such as Egypt, Babylon, Edom, etc, etc. He is applying that same judgement language to the jew and to the Temple and city of Jerusalem regarding their utter destruction by the Romans on 70 AD. It is hyper-literalism to interpret in a wooden literal sense the Words of Jesus in verse 29. *****Context, audience, comparing Scripture with Scripture, basic hermenutical rules, not just simple hyper-literalism at face value, when interpreting the words & meaning of Scripture.

      Comment


      • Re: Question for partial preterist

        Originally posted by DJohnson View Post
        Where does its say a worldwide tribulation in Matthew 24. You are forgetting the audience that is being spoken to by Jesus and the CONTEXT of the passage. The audience is not a universal or "Gentile" audience, it is the believing Jews of 33 AD. It involves the destruction of the Temple and and end of the age (vss 2-3). What age? The age which the Old Covenant Jews were in at the time, of course, the end of the OLD Covenant Age and the end of the age of the Old Covenant people, the Jews. In Verse 29 , Jesus is quoting directly from numerous Old testament passages from Isiah and others which describes in apocalyptic terms the judgement of various nations of the Middle East pre-Christ, such as Egypt, Babylon, Edom, etc, etc. He is applying that same judgement language to the jew and to the Temple and city of Jerusalem regarding their utter destruction by the Romans on 70 AD. It is hyper-literalism to interpret in a wooden literal sense the Words of Jesus in verse 29. *****Context, audience, comparing Scripture with Scripture, basic hermenutical rules, not just simple hyper-literalism at face value, when interpreting the words & meaning of Scripture.
        Exactly. .. . .......

        Originally posted by DJohnson View Post
        Where does its say a worldwide tribulation in Matthew 24. You are forgetting the audience that is being spoken to by Jesus and the CONTEXT of the passage. The audience is not a universal or "Gentile" audience, it is the believing Jews of 33 AD. It involves the destruction of the Temple and and end of the age (vss 2-3). What age? The age which the Old Covenant Jews were in at the time, of course, the end of the OLD Covenant Age and the end of the age of the Old Covenant people, the Jews. In Verse 29 , Jesus is quoting directly from numerous Old testament passages from Isiah and others which describes in apocalyptic terms the judgement of various nations of the Middle East pre-Christ, such as Egypt, Babylon, Edom, etc, etc. He is applying that same judgement language to the jew and to the Temple and city of Jerusalem regarding their utter destruction by the Romans on 70 AD. It is hyper-literalism to interpret in a wooden literal sense the Words of Jesus in verse 29. *****Context, audience, comparing Scripture with Scripture, basic hermenutical rules, not just simple hyper-literalism at face value, when interpreting the words & meaning of Scripture.
        Exactly. .. . .......
        “A” cannot be “A” & not “A” at the same time.

        מקום כניעה סך הכל

        Comment


        • Re: Question for partial preterist

          Originally posted by DJohnson View Post
          Where does its say a worldwide tribulation in Matthew 24. You are forgetting the audience that is being spoken to by Jesus and the CONTEXT of the passage. The audience is not a universal or "Gentile" audience, it is the believing Jews of 33 AD. It involves the destruction of the Temple and and end of the age (vss 2-3). What age? The age which the Old Covenant Jews were in at the time, of course, the end of the OLD Covenant Age and the end of the age of the Old Covenant people, the Jews. In Verse 29 , Jesus is quoting directly from numerous Old testament passages from Isiah and others which describes in apocalyptic terms the judgement of various nations of the Middle East pre-Christ, such as Egypt, Babylon, Edom, etc, etc. He is applying that same judgement language to the jew and to the Temple and city of Jerusalem regarding their utter destruction by the Romans on 70 AD. It is hyper-literalism to interpret in a wooden literal sense the Words of Jesus in verse 29. *****Context, audience, comparing Scripture with Scripture, basic hermenutical rules, not just simple hyper-literalism at face value, when interpreting the words & meaning of Scripture.
          If Matthew 24 was prophecy relating to 70AD, then are we to believe the gospel was preached in the whole world by 70AD? The apostle Thomas was still making his way down into southern India in 72AD when he was martyred. By no means had his gospel spread throughout all of India by the time the temple was destroyed, not to mention all the rest of the habitable world.
          Matthew 24:14
          "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."


          So here, Jesus is answering his disciples question regarding when the end will be. He says immediately after the tribulation of those days. He also revealed the signs to his disciples. The signs are listed below:
          But did they see the Son of man coming in the clouds in 70AD with power and great glory? If so, then the next coming will be the 3rd coming of the Lord right?
          Matthew 24:
          29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
          30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


          Again, Jesus continues talking about the gathering of his elect with the great sound of a trumpet and more signs. Did a gathering of the elect occur n 70AD? Also, he even says that generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
          Matthew 24:
          31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
          32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
          33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
          34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.


          Then he says Heaven and earth shall pass away, and also that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. When is the day refereed to that no man knowth? Does this apply to 70AD?
          Matthew 24:
          35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
          36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

          Comment


          • Re: Question for partial preterist

            Originally posted by TMarcum View Post
            If Matthew 24 was prophecy relating to 70AD, then are we to believe the gospel was preached in the whole world by 70AD?
            It was preached in the Roman world, but that didn't include every tribe , tongue in the newly discovered world. God is not going to bring on the end without reaching out to them first.
            And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

            Comment


            • Re: Question for partial preterist

              Originally posted by jeffweeder View Post
              It was preached in the Roman world, but that didn't include every tribe , tongue in the newly discovered world. God is not going to bring on the end without reaching out to them first.
              If I interpret what you're saying correctly, even though you do believe the gospel was preached in the Roman world, but you do not believe it was preached in "all" the world? As stated by Jesus.

              Matthew 24:14
              "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

              Comment


              • Re: Question for partial preterist

                Until folks stop looking at the Olivet discourse with myopic preterist vision, and realise that prophecy has an initial fulfilment, with a greater one in the future, they will never see its full significance.
                "Your name and renown
                is the desire of our hearts."
                (Isaiah 26:8)

                Comment


                • Re: Question for partial preterist

                  Originally posted by Cyberseeker View Post
                  Until folks stop looking at the Olivet discourse with myopic preterist vision, and realise that prophecy has an initial fulfilment, with a greater one in the future, they will never see its full significance.
                  Otherwise known as a type or shadow except the OD was not even partially fulfilled in the past since Jews were targeted by Roman's in Ad70 but the OD has the AC targeting Christians. Pretty huge difference.

                  Originally posted by Cyberseeker View Post
                  Until folks stop looking at the Olivet discourse with myopic preterist vision, and realise that prophecy has an initial fulfilment, with a greater one in the future, they will never see its full significance.
                  Otherwise known as a type or shadow except the OD was not even partially fulfilled in the past since Jews were targeted by Roman's in Ad70 but the OD has the AC targeting Christians. Pretty huge difference.
                  James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Question for partial preterist

                    Originally posted by TMarcum View Post
                    If I interpret what you're saying correctly, even though you do believe the gospel was preached in the Roman world, but you do not believe it was preached in "all" the world? As stated by Jesus.
                    Yes correct. Never knew back then what other places existed. God knew and he seek them out through the Gospel before the end will come.
                    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

                    Comment


                    • Re: Question for partial preterist

                      Originally posted by DJohnson View Post
                      Where does its say a worldwide tribulation in Matthew 24. You are forgetting the audience that is being spoken to by Jesus and the CONTEXT of the passage. The audience is not a universal or "Gentile" audience, it is the believing Jews of 33 AD. It involves the destruction of the Temple and and end of the age (vss 2-3). What age? The age which the Old Covenant Jews were in at the time, of course, the end of the OLD Covenant Age and the end of the age of the Old Covenant people, the Jews. In Verse 29 , Jesus is quoting directly from numerous Old testament passages from Isiah and others which describes in apocalyptic terms the judgement of various nations of the Middle East pre-Christ, such as Egypt, Babylon, Edom, etc, etc. He is applying that same judgement language to the jew and to the Temple and city of Jerusalem regarding their utter destruction by the Romans on 70 AD. It is hyper-literalism to interpret in a wooden literal sense the Words of Jesus in verse 29. *****Context, audience, comparing Scripture with Scripture, basic hermenutical rules, not just simple hyper-literalism at face value, when interpreting the words & meaning of Scripture.
                      I agree we always have to read the bible standing in the shoes of the people it was written to

                      Although it is for us it wasn’t written to us

                      Originally posted by DJohnson View Post
                      Where does its say a worldwide tribulation in Matthew 24. You are forgetting the audience that is being spoken to by Jesus and the CONTEXT of the passage. The audience is not a universal or "Gentile" audience, it is the believing Jews of 33 AD. It involves the destruction of the Temple and and end of the age (vss 2-3). What age? The age which the Old Covenant Jews were in at the time, of course, the end of the OLD Covenant Age and the end of the age of the Old Covenant people, the Jews. In Verse 29 , Jesus is quoting directly from numerous Old testament passages from Isiah and others which describes in apocalyptic terms the judgement of various nations of the Middle East pre-Christ, such as Egypt, Babylon, Edom, etc, etc. He is applying that same judgement language to the jew and to the Temple and city of Jerusalem regarding their utter destruction by the Romans on 70 AD. It is hyper-literalism to interpret in a wooden literal sense the Words of Jesus in verse 29. *****Context, audience, comparing Scripture with Scripture, basic hermenutical rules, not just simple hyper-literalism at face value, when interpreting the words & meaning of Scripture.
                      I agree we always have to read the bible standing in the shoes of the people it was written to

                      Although it is for us it wasn’t written to us

                      Comment


                      • Re: Question for partial preterist

                        Originally posted by TMarcum View Post
                        If Matthew 24 was prophecy relating to 70AD, then are we to believe the gospel was preached in the whole world by 70AD? The apostle Thomas was still making his way down into southern India in 72AD when he was martyred. By no means had his gospel spread throughout all of India by the time the temple was destroyed, not to mention all the rest of the habitable world.

                        Matthew 24:14
                        "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."
                        It was the known Roman world Jesus was meaning and Paul states four times using the same words of Jesus that the gospel was preached in the whole world in his days

                        Comment


                        • Re: Question for partial preterist

                          Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                          I agree we always have to read the bible standing in the shoes of the people it was written to

                          Although it is for us it wasn’t written to us
                          3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew were questioning Him privately, 4 “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign when all these things are going to be fulfilled?”

                          Jesus gave the answer to those who followed him ….a select few..

                          Not to anybody else.
                          And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

                          Comment


                          • Re: Question for partial preterist

                            Originally posted by jeffweeder View Post
                            3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew were questioning Him privately, 4 “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign when all these things are going to be fulfilled?”

                            Jesus gave the answer to those who followed him ….a select few..

                            Not to anybody else.
                            Agreed only those four heard the words my point was that Matthews gospel is written to the Jews

                            Comment


                            • Re: Question for partial preterist

                              Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                              Agreed only those four heard the words my point was that Matthews gospel is written to the Jews
                              45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and He said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

                              48 You are witnesses of these things. 49 And behold, I am sending forth the promise of My Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.”


                              Was not just for the Jews, but God so loved the whole world that he sent his Son to save the entire world before the end comes.

                              Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                              Agreed only those four heard the words my point was that Matthews gospel is written to the Jews
                              45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and He said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

                              48 You are witnesses of these things. 49 And behold, I am sending forth the promise of My Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.”


                              Was not just for the Jews, but God so loved the whole world that he sent his Son to save the entire world before the end comes.
                              And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

                              Comment


                              • Re: Question for partial preterist

                                Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                                Agreed only those four heard the words my point was that Matthews gospel is written to the Jews
                                4 people asking a question on the mount of olives has nothing to do with who the book was written to. It's a book written to any who wants to read it, not specifically to anyone.

                                Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                                Agreed only those four heard the words my point was that Matthews gospel is written to the Jews
                                4 people asking a question on the mount of olives has nothing to do with who the book was written to. It's a book written to any who wants to read it, not specifically to anyone.
                                James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                                Comment

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