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  • Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    For those who think that Jesus is going to come and reign on the earth for a thousand years before Satan is released please Consider this verses below

    Matthew 22:43-44
    43 He said to them, “How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him ‘Lord’? For he says,

    44 “‘The Lord said to my Lord:
    “Sit at my right hand
    until I put your enemies
    under your feet.”’[e]

    How could Jesus sit on the right hand of the Father until all of his enemies are defeated if He is supposed to be on the earth (not beside the Father) before satan is defeated?

    Comment


    • Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

      Originally posted by marty fox View Post
      For those who think that Jesus is going to come and reign on the earth for a thousand years before Satan is released please Consider this verses below

      Matthew 22:43-44
      43 He said to them, “How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him ‘Lord’? For he says,

      44 “‘The Lord said to my Lord:
      “Sit at my right hand
      until I put your enemies
      under your feet.”’[e]

      How could Jesus sit on the right hand of the Father until all of his enemies are defeated if He is supposed to be on the earth (not beside the Father) before satan is defeated?
      It doesn't say "sit on the right hand of the Father until all of his enemies are defeated" it says, "Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet." which is a form of control over them exactly what the rule of the rod of iron over the nations is. This lasts for a thousand years according to Rev 20 and according to Rev 2, this rod of iron reign over those nations does not even start until after Jesus comes back ie: the second coming:

      Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

      That is the second coming. Everything we read of next comes after the second coming:

      Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

      After "the end" comes, there is given power over the nations to those that are overcomers which naturally includes those who "are alive and remain" at the second coming. They will be given power over the nations after Christ has returned not before it.

      Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

      After the second coming and after "the end" will the overcomers be given power over the nations, ruling them with a rod of iron. That proves the rod of iron rule over the nations for a thousand years does not even start until Christ has returned and has given overcomers this power to rule over the nations.
      James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

      Comment


      • Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

        Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
        Neither address time durations but Rev 20 does so we have to read all the passages to get the clearest picture.
        Jesus appearing quickly in a "twinkling of an eye" , and "sudden destruction for the ungodly the last day" address time durations.

        Reading passages separately from Rev 20 will lead to the confusion you Rae experiencing now.
        The opposite is true. Hedging all your bets on your interpretation of rev 20 leads to your confusion of the many passages.

        There is a unity that exists when you read relating passages from the rest of the NT.



        The Church had all it needed to know about his coming due to the brilliant words of Jesus himself , and those of Peter and Paul etc long before the The book of Revelation was even introduced to them.


        What of their eschatology at that time? Paul wrote to the Thessalonians that nothing extra needed to be written to them in the 50'S AD...., before Revelation.

        So what of those many NT passages outside Rev 20 lends support to your premill theory.

        As you said we read all the passages to get the clearest picture
        And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

        Comment


        • Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

          Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
          It doesn't say "sit on the right hand of the Father until all of his enemies are defeated" it says, "Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet." which is a form of control over them exactly what the rule of the rod of iron over the nations is. This lasts for a thousand years according to Rev 20 and according to Rev 2, this rod of iron reign over those nations does not even start until after Jesus comes back ie: the second coming:

          Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

          That is the second coming. Everything we read of next comes after the second coming:

          Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

          After "the end" comes, there is given power over the nations to those that are overcomers which naturally includes those who "are alive and remain" at the second coming. They will be given power over the nations after Christ has returned not before it.

          Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

          After the second coming and after "the end" will the overcomers be given power over the nations, ruling them with a rod of iron. That proves the rod of iron rule over the nations for a thousand years does not even start until Christ has returned and has given overcomers this power to rule over the nations.
          Revelation 2:18-28
          18 “To the angel of the church in Thyatira write:

          These are the words of the Son of God, whose eyes are like blazing fire and whose feet are like burnished bronze. 19 I know your deeds, your love and faith, your service and perseverance, and that you are now doing more than you did at first.

          20 Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. 21 I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. 22 So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. 23 I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds.

          24 Now I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan’s so-called deep secrets, ‘I will not impose any other burden on you, 25 except to hold on to what you have until I come.’

          26 To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— 27 that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’[b]—just as I have received authority from my Father. 28 I will also give that one the morning star. 29 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

          How could verse 25 be talking about the second coming were these people Jesus mentioned by name alive at the second coming?

          Jesus is clearly talking to people who were alive at the time of the writing of revelation. Jesus mentions jezabel and her children Jesus also tells the historical church Thyatira that they are not to tolerate her an actual church in the first century.

          Jesus then gives the church of Thyatira some good news that He won’t impose any more burdens on them and then tells them to hold on until He comes are they suppose to hold on for two thousand years or was it a coming in judgement?

          Please think about it the ones Jesus tells to hold on till he comes in the very same sentence He also Says they are not holding to Jezebels teaching

          This is clearly not the second coming

          Comment


          • Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

            Originally posted by jeffweeder View Post
            Jesus appearing quickly in a "twinkling of an eye" , and "sudden destruction for the ungodly the last day" address time durations.



            The opposite is true. Hedging all your bets on your interpretation of rev 20 leads to your confusion of the many passages.

            There is a unity that exists when you read relating passages from the rest of the NT.



            The Church had all it needed to know about his coming due to the brilliant words of Jesus himself , and those of Peter and Paul etc long before the The book of Revelation was even introduced to them.


            What of their eschatology at that time? Paul wrote to the Thessalonians that nothing extra needed to be written to them in the 50'S AD...., before Revelation.

            So what of those many NT passages outside Rev 20 lends support to your premill theory.

            As you said we read all the passages to get the clearest picture
            Amen let the scriptures interpret scripture

            Comment


            • Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

              [QUOTE=marty fox;3511432]
              Originally posted by Trivalee View Post

              Let me put it this way

              Romans 10:13

              13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved

              Matthew 12:31-32

              31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come

              Romans 10:9
              If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved

              John 3:16
              For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life

              1John 1:9
              If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

              None of these verses say unless you take the mark of the beast
              How can they call upon the Lord when they curse the name of God and went on to take the mark (Rev 16:2,9-11) in defiance to the warning not to?

              Comment


              • Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

                Originally posted by jeffweeder View Post
                You misunderstood my point.

                I said that this was never gonna happen. I was addressing your notion of the doomed wicked having babies after Jesus comes. (Premill)

                Jesus remains in heaven until he leaves there to remove the wicked and restore all things. ( Amill )

                act 3
                18 But the things which God announced beforehand by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19 Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; 20 and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you,
                21 whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.

                Christ will come and restore all things in righteous judgment by removing all elements of the curse since the fall of man. Peoples from the whole world will be saved and inherit what was promised.

                When Jesus comes again he will say to us...,
                Come, inherit the kingdom prepared for you since the foundation of the world.

                He will say to the wicked...,

                41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
                If all the unbelievers are removed before Jesus returns, who then are those referred to as Gog and Magog in Rev 20:8?

                Comment


                • Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

                  Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                  For those who think that Jesus is going to come and reign on the earth for a thousand years before Satan is released please Consider this verses below

                  Matthew 22:43-44
                  43 He said to them, “How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him ‘Lord’? For he says,

                  44 “‘The Lord said to my Lord:
                  “Sit at my right hand
                  until I put your enemies
                  under your feet.”’[e]

                  How could Jesus sit on the right hand of the Father until all of his enemies are defeated if He is supposed to be on the earth (not beside the Father) before satan is defeated?
                  By the time Jesus sits on the throne during the MK, Satan will be incapacitated and imprisoned (Rev 20:2-3). That's part of the defeat of Satan until he is cast into the lake of fire.

                  Comment


                  • Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

                    Originally posted by jeffweeder View Post
                    Jesus appearing quickly in a "twinkling of an eye" ,
                    That isn't in the scriptures you posted plus it's about how fast the dead are resurrected and the living changed.

                    1Co_15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

                    and "sudden destruction for the ungodly the last day" address time durations.
                    I'm talking about time durations between events not whether the time for destruction is sudden or not. The unsaved are not cast into the LOF at the second coming. Only Rev 19-20 shows the time durations of the events. We know at the second coming only the beast and FP are cast into the LOF. Then we see that Jesus and his resurrected saints reign for a thousand years, and then Satan is released and a one sided battle happens and only after the thousand years is someone cast into the LOF again and that's Satan, then the GWTJ happens and the "rest of the dead" are judged and cast into the LOF. All of that doesn't happen at the second coming. It's spread out over a thousand years. One would have to dismiss what Rev says to come up with everything happening at the second coming. Rev 20 gives us the details that no other passage provides.



                    The opposite is true. Hedging all your bets on your interpretation of rev 20 leads to your confusion of the many passages.
                    I use all the passages to get the full picture. Amil only uses passages outside of Rev to establish the mistaken view that there is one day of resurrection rather than two, one day of judgment rather than two.





                    The Church had all it needed to know about his coming due to the brilliant words of Jesus himself , and those of Peter and Paul etc long before the The book of Revelation was even introduced to them.
                    See? Amil thinks it doesn't need what Rev provides. You are wrong, the church did not "had all it needed to know about his coming" before receiving Rev.

                    What of their eschatology at that time? Paul wrote to the Thessalonians that nothing extra needed to be written to them in the 50'S AD...., before Revelation.

                    So what of those many NT passages outside Rev 20 lends support to your premill theory.

                    As you said we read all the passages to get the clearest picture
                    Except you are arguing to leave what Rev says out of the discussion which is clear error and very suspect. Rev is the only book of the bible that directly speaks of the thousand years and it tells us Jesus returns before the thousand years starts, and that the reign over the nations with a rod of iron only starts after Christ has returned so Rev destroys the Amil position. It should come as no surprise that arguments that everything needed to be known was known before Rev as if Rev is unimportant.
                    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                    Comment


                    • Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

                      Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                      Revelation 2:18-28
                      18 “To the angel of the church in Thyatira write:

                      These are the words of the Son of God, whose eyes are like blazing fire and whose feet are like burnished bronze. 19 I know your deeds, your love and faith, your service and perseverance, and that you are now doing more than you did at first.

                      20 Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. 21 I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. 22 So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. 23 I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds.

                      24 Now I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan’s so-called deep secrets, ‘I will not impose any other burden on you, 25 except to hold on to what you have until I come.’

                      26 To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— 27 that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’[b]—just as I have received authority from my Father. 28 I will also give that one the morning star. 29 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

                      How could verse 25 be talking about the second coming were these people Jesus mentioned by name alive at the second coming?

                      Jesus is clearly talking to people who were alive at the time of the writing of revelation. Jesus mentions jezabel and her children Jesus also tells the historical church Thyatira that they are not to tolerate her an actual church in the first century.

                      Jesus then gives the church of Thyatira some good news that He won’t impose any more burdens on them and then tells them to hold on until He comes are they suppose to hold on for two thousand years or was it a coming in judgement?

                      Please think about it the ones Jesus tells to hold on till he comes in the very same sentence He also Says they are not holding to Jezebels teaching

                      This is clearly not the second coming
                      He does speak of the second coming. He is speaking both to people at the time and people in the future. People that died faithful would receive the same promises as those who are alive when Christ returns. Those that are given power over the nations in verse 26 are both those that were dead and resurrected as well as those who are alive and remain at the coming of the Lord. Both are considered overcomers.
                      James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                      Comment


                      • Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

                        Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                        He does speak of the second coming. He is speaking both to people at the time and people in the future. People that died faithful would receive the same promises as those who are alive when Christ returns. Those that are given power over the nations in verse 26 are both those that were dead and resurrected as well as those who are alive and remain at the coming of the Lord. Both are considered overcomers.
                        How can you think that Jesus refers to His coming in the very same sentence and tells the ones alive at that time to hold until His coming?

                        Why can’t you think that some times it is a coming in judgement like in the verse below?

                        Isaiah 19:1
                        A prophecy against Egypt: See, the LORD rides on a swift cloud and is coming to Egypt. The idols of Egypt tremble before him, and the hearts of the Egyptians melt with fear.

                        Comment


                        • Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

                          Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                          How can you think that Jesus refers to His coming in the very same sentence and tells the ones alive at that time to hold until His coming?
                          Unless you think the second coming happened to the people living at John's time then you have to understand it the same way I do. The hold fast til I come applies to future members of that church....whether or not the physical church ceased to exist or not. The churches symbolize certain types of Christians throughout history.

                          Why can’t you think that some times it is a coming in judgement like in the verse below?
                          Because scripture speaks of Christ coming a second time only and it is a physical return where he fights a war at Armageddon and the FP and beast are defeated which hasn't happened yet. Also, that passage speaks of overcomers which is an endtimes thing only, and speaks of things happening after "the end" which also is a reference to the end of this age before the Millennial age begins with that same rod of iron rule over the nations. None of that can apply to the first century.

                          If you want to invent multiple comings then you are exactly in the same boat as the pre-tribbers with their secret second coming and the actual second coming is really his third coming. False doctrines always make up all things extra comings of Christ. Only Premil accepts only one second coming.
                          James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                          Comment


                          • Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

                            Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                            Unless you think the second coming happened to the people living at John's time then you have to understand it the same way I do. The hold fast til I come applies to future members of that church....whether or not the physical church ceased to exist or not. The churches symbolize certain types of Christians throughout history.



                            Because scripture speaks of Christ coming a second time only and it is a physical return where he fights a war at Armageddon and the FP and beast are defeated which hasn't happened yet. Also, that passage speaks of overcomers which is an endtimes thing only, and speaks of things happening after "the end" which also is a reference to the end of this age before the Millennial age begins with that same rod of iron rule over the nations. None of that can apply to the first century.

                            If you want to invent multiple comings then you are exactly in the same boat as the pre-tribbers with their secret second coming and the actual second coming is really his third coming. False doctrines always make up all things extra comings of Christ. Only Premil accepts only one second coming.
                            Okay so what was the coming Isiah wrote about?

                            Coming in judgement is different from the two advents

                            So in your theory isn’t the time satan is cast into the lake of fire after the MK a third coming?

                            Comment


                            • Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

                              Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                              Okay so what was the coming Isiah wrote about?
                              It's unrelated obviously. Christ's first coming or advent was his birth. His second is his first and only return since the ascension. That's the first and second comings.

                              Coming in judgement is different from the two advents
                              That's what they say about the secret rapture too. Justify it however you wish, it is still unscriptural.


                              So in your theory isn’t the time satan is cast into the lake of fire after the MK a third coming?
                              That made me laugh but, no, Jesus never leaves so no more comings are possible.

                              Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                              Okay so what was the coming Isiah wrote about?
                              It's unrelated obviously. Christ's first coming or advent was his birth. His second is his first and only return since the ascension. That's the first and second comings.

                              Coming in judgement is different from the two advents
                              That's what they say about the secret rapture too. Justify it however you wish, it is still unscriptural.


                              So in your theory isn’t the time satan is cast into the lake of fire after the MK a third coming?
                              That made me laugh but, no, Jesus never leaves so no more comings are possible.
                              James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                              Comment


                              • Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

                                Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                                It's unrelated obviously. Christ's first coming or advent was his birth. His second is his first and only return since the ascension. That's the first and second comings.



                                That's what they say about the secret rapture too. Justify it however you wish, it is still unscriptural.




                                That made me laugh but, no, Jesus never leaves so no more comings are possible.



                                It's unrelated obviously. Christ's first coming or advent was his birth. His second is his first and only return since the ascension. That's the first and second comings.



                                That's what they say about the secret rapture too. Justify it however you wish, it is still unscriptural.




                                That made me laugh but, no, Jesus never leaves so no more comings are possible.
                                But Isaiah did call it a coming and it was a coming in judgement and it is biblical

                                I don’t believe in a secret rapture but again coming in the is biblical

                                Jesus does come down with the NJ doesn’t He?

                                Comment

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