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  • Deade
    replied
    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
    It's both.



    More important to notice that the Greek word does not mean to be killed or judged. It means to be accepted and survive.



    Completely different Greek word that doesn't mean what "one taken" means. If you don't include study of the Greek words a "study" like this has no truth in it.



    Noah wasn't "left" he was TAKEN to safety and those LEFT outside the ark died. The Greek word for left means to be rejected and die not survive.

    taken
    3880

    3880 paralambano {par-al-am-ban'-o}

    from 3844 and 2983; TDNT - 4:11,495; v

    AV - take 30, receive 15, take unto 2, take up 2, take away 1; 50

    1) to take to, to take with one's self, to join to one's self
    1a) an associate, a companion
    1b) metaph.
    1b1) to accept or acknowledge one to be such as he professes to be
    1b2) not to reject, not to withhold obedience
    2) to receive something transmitted
    2a) an office to be discharged
    2b) to receive with the mind
    2b1) by oral transmission: of the authors from whom the
    tradition proceeds
    2b2) by the narrating to others, by instruction of teachers
    (used of disciples)

    "to take with one's self"
    "to join to one's self"
    "an associate"
    "a companion"
    "not to reject"



    left
    863

    863 aphiemi {af-ee'-ay-mee}

    from 575 and hiemi (to send, an intens. form of eimi, to go);
    TDNT - 1:509,88; v

    AV - leave 52, forgive 47, suffer 14, let 8, forsake 6, let alone 6,
    misc 13; 146

    1) to send away
    1a) to bid going away or depart
    1a1) of a husband divorcing his wife
    1b) to send forth, yield up, to expire
    1c) to let go, let alone, let be
    1c1) to disregard
    1c2) to leave, not to discuss now, (a topic)
    1c21) of teachers, writers and speakers
    1c3) to omit, neglect
    1d) to let go, give up a debt, forgive, to remit
    1e) to give up, keep no longer
    2) to permit, allow, not to hinder, to give up a thing to a person
    3) to leave, go way from one
    3a) in order to go to another place
    3b) to depart from any one
    3c) to depart from one and leave him to himself so that all
    mutual claims are abandoned
    3d) to desert wrongfully
    3e) to go away leaving something behind
    3f) to leave one by not taking him as a companion
    3g) to leave on dying, leave behind one
    3h) to leave so that what is left may remain, leave remaining
    3i) abandon, leave destitute

    "to send away"
    "of a husband divorcing his wife"
    "to expire"
    "to disregard"
    "neglect"
    "keep no longer"
    "to leave on dying"
    "leave behind one"
    "abandon, leave destitute"

    That's the complete opposite as being "taken" and is very negative. Do you
    want to be rejected at the return of Christ or do you want to be accepted?
    Christ takes the first one from the field and the rest is "left" by him, and
    are "kept no longer".

    Leave a comment:


  • ewq1938
    replied
    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Originally posted by marty fox View Post

    Mt Ch 24:40-41
    40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

    This is also one of the most misunderstood verses in scripture. This is not the rapture, this is judgment.
    It's both.


    Notice the word used in these two verses taken.
    More important to notice that the Greek word does not mean to be killed or judged. It means to be accepted and survive.

    Just like the words took them away in verse 39.
    Completely different Greek word that doesn't mean what "one taken" means. If you don't include study of the Greek words a "study" like this has no truth in it.

    It was better to be left like Noah than to of be taken away.
    Noah wasn't "left" he was TAKEN to safety and those LEFT outside the ark died. The Greek word for left means to be rejected and die not survive.

    taken
    3880

    3880 paralambano {par-al-am-ban'-o}

    from 3844 and 2983; TDNT - 4:11,495; v

    AV - take 30, receive 15, take unto 2, take up 2, take away 1; 50

    1) to take to, to take with one's self, to join to one's self
    1a) an associate, a companion
    1b) metaph.
    1b1) to accept or acknowledge one to be such as he professes to be
    1b2) not to reject, not to withhold obedience
    2) to receive something transmitted
    2a) an office to be discharged
    2b) to receive with the mind
    2b1) by oral transmission: of the authors from whom the
    tradition proceeds
    2b2) by the narrating to others, by instruction of teachers
    (used of disciples)

    "to take with one's self"
    "to join to one's self"
    "an associate"
    "a companion"
    "not to reject"



    left
    863

    863 aphiemi {af-ee'-ay-mee}

    from 575 and hiemi (to send, an intens. form of eimi, to go);
    TDNT - 1:509,88; v

    AV - leave 52, forgive 47, suffer 14, let 8, forsake 6, let alone 6,
    misc 13; 146

    1) to send away
    1a) to bid going away or depart
    1a1) of a husband divorcing his wife
    1b) to send forth, yield up, to expire
    1c) to let go, let alone, let be
    1c1) to disregard
    1c2) to leave, not to discuss now, (a topic)
    1c21) of teachers, writers and speakers
    1c3) to omit, neglect
    1d) to let go, give up a debt, forgive, to remit
    1e) to give up, keep no longer
    2) to permit, allow, not to hinder, to give up a thing to a person
    3) to leave, go way from one
    3a) in order to go to another place
    3b) to depart from any one
    3c) to depart from one and leave him to himself so that all
    mutual claims are abandoned
    3d) to desert wrongfully
    3e) to go away leaving something behind
    3f) to leave one by not taking him as a companion
    3g) to leave on dying, leave behind one
    3h) to leave so that what is left may remain, leave remaining
    3i) abandon, leave destitute

    "to send away"
    "of a husband divorcing his wife"
    "to expire"
    "to disregard"
    "neglect"
    "keep no longer"
    "to leave on dying"
    "leave behind one"
    "abandon, leave destitute"

    That's the complete opposite as being "taken" and is very negative. Do you
    want to be rejected at the return of Christ or do you want to be accepted?
    Christ takes the first one from the field and the rest is "left" by him, and
    are "kept no longer".

    Leave a comment:


  • marty fox
    replied
    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Originally posted by divaD View Post
    Matthew 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
    34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
    35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
    36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
    37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
    38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
    39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
    40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
    41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
    42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
    43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
    44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
    45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
    46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
    47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
    48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
    49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
    50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
    51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    All of the above is connected. It needs to be read together. None of it even remotely involves things taking place in the first century. Who do you think verse 51 is being applied to? The unbelieving Jews in the first century or something? How about it's meaning professed servants of Christ instead? But not professed servants of Christ like seen in verses 45-47 though. Professed servants of Christ like seen in verses 48-50. Notice what verse 48 says....My lord delayeth his coming. Logic tells us no unbelieving Jew would be thinking that in their heart, especially about Christ since they outright reject Him to begin with. Only a professed servant of Christ would say that in their heart. And if verse 48 is not already clear enough, there is the following in verse 50 that is ultra clear....The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him. I don't think Jesus can get much clearer than that.
    This is from my study

    Mt 24:32-33
    32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door

    When you see these signs it is imminent.

    Mt 24:34

    34I tell you the truth this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened.

    This is the key verse. Jesus is telling us that all he has said in this chapter is about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.
    It is also one of the most miss understood verses in scripture.

    Bertrand Russell a world class philosopher and leading intellect wrote a book called why I am not a Christian.

    Albert Schweitzer believed Jesus was a false prophet.

    Gerald Sigal an unbelieving Jew wrote on the web site Jews for Judaism that Jesus unfulfilled his promise.

    Why are these three people claiming these things ?

    Because Jesus said in Mathew Ch24:34

    34I tell you the truth this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened
    .
    They believe like most people that these things did not happen in that generation therefore Jesus’s prediction did not come to pass in that generation making him to be a false prophet. But I believe history and the understanding of what the scriptures really mean in Mathew Ch 24 proves that these things did happen in that generation in 70 AD, and reveals Jesus to be who he says he is the Christ the Messiah and is sitting on the thrown.

    Mt Ch 24:35
    35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

    I believe when "Jesus said this to show that he meant what he said in verse 34 and it is to be taken literally to prove that he was the Messiah.

    Mt Ch 24:36-38
    36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark;

    A warning no one knows exactly when this will happen, only the Father. God is warning people to always be ready. Live a Godly life we don't know when your last day will be.

    Mt Ch 24:39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

    Notice the words say the flood came and took them away not the flood came and killed them. They were judged. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of man. (Judgment)

    Mt Ch 24:40-41
    40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

    This is also one of the most misunderstood verses in scripture. This is not the rapture, this is judgment. Notice the word used in these two verses taken. Just like the words took them away in verse 39. It was better to be left like Noah than to of be taken away.

    Mt Ch 24:42-44
    42 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into.

    Another warning, keep watch, be ready, you do not know which day will be your last. Live a Godly life.

    Mt Ch 24:45-51
    45 “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46 It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47 Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48 But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ 49 and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51 He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    A third warning, learn the lesson of Israel, who thought they could do as they please, and that God would always be with them. God will show his grace and warn you to get right with him, but his patients has limits. Again, live a Godly life, you never know what day will be your last. You may miss out on the blessing of Gods plan for your life that will bless you and others. God ended his time with Israel and shared that blessing with the gentiles. He now uses Christians gentiles and Jews by spiritual birth, not Jewish birth, to spread his message to the world. Be ready when Jesus comes back.

    Leave a comment:


  • jeffweeder
    replied
    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Originally posted by JohnE View Post
    That is one of my favs. The Acts 321 countdown prophecy, as I call it. Look again more closely.

    Acts 3:19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.

    The "times" of refreshing/restoration is plural, twice in case it was missed the first time. There is more than one time of the restoration of all things.

    Restoration comes after Gods fixed day of judgment has come ( singular)

    Now, I have a bonus question for you. As you know, Elijah comes before the great and terrible day of the Lord. Who did Jesus say "is Elijah who is to come and will restore all things?"

    The Baptist was the voice in the wilderness, preaching repentance and paving the way to the blessed hope of restoration in Jesus name.

    Leave a comment:


  • JohnE
    replied
    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Originally posted by jeffweeder View Post
    Do we not enter his rest forever ?
    No. There is work to do in the NHNE. Remember, we are kings and priests, and sons of God. All of which have work to do.

    Leave a comment:


  • JohnE
    replied
    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Originally posted by jeffweeder View Post
    Hi John
    That's a lot comings.

    What do you make of this scripture...,

    act 3
    18 But the things which God announced beforehand by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19 Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; 20 and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you,
    21 whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.


    Looks like he remains in heaven until the very end of this fallen world.
    Heaven and earth will pass away but his promise will not.
    That is one of my favs. The Acts 321 countdown prophecy, as I call it. Look again more closely.

    Acts 3:19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.

    The "times" of refreshing/restoration is plural, twice in case it was missed the first time. There is more than one time of the restoration of all things.

    Now, I have a bonus question for you. As you know, Elijah comes before the great and terrible day of the Lord. Who did Jesus say "is Elijah who is to come and will restore all things?"

    Leave a comment:


  • jeffweeder
    replied
    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
    The world is not being restored plus the verse said Christ is in heaven until the time for restoration.
    We get ready now, and when he comes we inherit it.

    That happens at the second coming not now.
    His reward of restoration for the repentant is granted at his coming.

    Leave a comment:


  • ewq1938
    replied
    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Originally posted by jeffweeder View Post
    No time like the present. Now is the special time to prepare for that restoration and be found worthy of it. It takes place now.
    Obviously not. The world is not being restored plus the verse said Christ is in heaven until the time for restoration.



    First, man must be restored ( glorified)
    That happens at the second coming not now.


    , then God makes known what Jesus was preparing for those that love him when he comes again and gathers us to himself...having a restored body like his glorious body.
    Yeah and then the world gets restored during the thousand years while Satan is imprisoned.

    Act 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

    This is a Premill. Christ in heaven until the restitution of the thousand years. Amil thinks the restitution is now like you but that isn't happening in the world. There is no such period in Amil doctrine. And you can't use the NHNE because all things are restored by that time. Again the Amil doctrine falls short in relation to the scriptures.

    Leave a comment:


  • divaD
    replied
    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Originally posted by marty fox View Post
    Many would agree with you and many would disagree with you as their are many who teach and have written about it

    I don’t honour translations or belief titles I only honour the message of the scriptures and the message Jesus was giving was that just like the ones in Noah’s days were taken in judgement so would the ones who rejected and killed their messiah be taken in judgement either in death or as prisoners

    Matthew 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
    34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
    35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
    36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
    37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
    38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
    39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
    40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
    41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
    42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
    43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
    44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
    45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
    46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
    47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
    48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
    49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
    50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
    51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    All of the above is connected. It needs to be read together. None of it even remotely involves things taking place in the first century. Who do you think verse 51 is being applied to? The unbelieving Jews in the first century or something? How about it's meaning professed servants of Christ instead? But not professed servants of Christ like seen in verses 45-47 though. Professed servants of Christ like seen in verses 48-50. Notice what verse 48 says....My lord delayeth his coming. Logic tells us no unbelieving Jew would be thinking that in their heart, especially about Christ since they outright reject Him to begin with. Only a professed servant of Christ would say that in their heart. And if verse 48 is not already clear enough, there is the following in verse 50 that is ultra clear....The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him. I don't think Jesus can get much clearer than that.

    Leave a comment:


  • jeffweeder
    replied
    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    I edited my post above

    Leave a comment:


  • jeffweeder
    replied
    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
    That doesn't address the content of my post. Since the NHNE is OT a work in progress then the work of restoration happened before it began. In Amil the world before the NHNE is a disaster so no time for the restoration period to exist but in Premil there is a special period of time that never existed before where restoration can take place.
    No time like the present. Now is the special time to prepare for that restoration and be found worthy of it. It takes place now.


    First, man must be restored ( glorified) , then God makes known what Jesus was preparing for those that love him when he comes again and gathers us to himself...having a restored body like his glorious body.

    Leave a comment:


  • ewq1938
    replied
    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Originally posted by jeffweeder View Post
    It is inherited at his coming in Matt 25:31-.
    Jesus has ascended to prepare this place for us and remains in heaven until the appointed time.
    That doesn't address the content of my post. Since the NHNE is OT a work in progress then the work of restoration happened before it began. In Amil the world before the NHNE is a disaster so no time for the restoration period to exist but in Premil there is a special period of time that never existed before where restoration can take place.

    Leave a comment:


  • marty fox
    replied
    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Thanks for explaining. I didn't know your views before, we may disagree on many things but thanks for the polite explanations.

    I think it's mainly methodology where we disagree, I prefer the most obvious interpretation in each case, and I prefer the literal explanation unless the symbolic explanation is obvious.

    Two examples are Rev 19 and Matthew 24, both speak to me of the second coming.

    A third example is the existence of the beast at the second coming in Rev 19, obviously followed by the 1000 years. But thanks for the chat.
    You’re very welcome and thank you too it was good debating you and you are a pleasure to talk to

    Leave a comment:


  • jeffweeder
    replied
    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
    The NHNE is not a work in progress but the finished work.
    It is inherited at his coming in Matt 25:31-.
    Jesus has ascended to prepare this place for us and remains in heaven until the appointed time.

    Leave a comment:


  • marty fox
    replied
    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Originally posted by JohnE View Post
    Many saw what I wrote and understood it. They are the ones I wrote to.

    Genesis 1 teaches the 1000 year rest of God's people. The Millennium of Jesus Christ is one of the most plain and simple concepts in scripture. Jesus said plainly that He is the Lord of the Sabbath. Do you really think He is talking about Saturdays? The Sabbath is the 7th thousand years from creation when His elect enter His rest. I know your position differs from this but it is not my intention to persuade you otherwise because your mind is made up on the matter. Therefore, there is no debate, only arguments which go nowhere. I'd prefer to save both of us the aggravation.
    Actually Your reply was to my post and I did understand it but like I said no hard feeling I only said something because you said that Jesus himself taught you and that he gave you an assignment to make deciples and sarcasm wouldn’t be a good way making deciples.

    I don’t consider the conversations as arguments but debates and why wouldn’t you want to persuade me if you are suppose too. I am not try to aggravate you but just trying to understand you

    If the thousand years is plain and simply then why doesn’t revelation chapter 20 mention that it is with Jesus, on the earth and a time of peace? The reason that it is not plain and simply is because those are not mentioned in revelation chapter 20 and that is the reason for the different views and debates

    I am not trying to start a debate with you but just explaining that it isn’t plain and simple

    Leave a comment:

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