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Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

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  • #61
    Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

    Originally posted by The Beginner View Post
    Please explain scriptural why the Beast with 10 Horns (Dan 7) is NOT the same as the Beast with 10 Horns? (Rev).

    Is the reign of the saints with Chris the same in Dan 7 as the reign with Christ in Rev 20 in your opinion? Is so, then why not the Beast?

    THE BEAST IN DANIEL IS THE SAME AS IN REVELATION:

    1. Both Revelation and Daniel say Beast comes out of the sea

    Dan 7:3 "And four great beasts came up from the sea, each different from the other.

    Rev 13:1 Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea,...



    2. Both Revelation and Daniel say the Beast has 10 horns.

    Dan 7:7 It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns.

    Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which you saw on the beast,



    3. Both Daniel and Revelation say the Beast rules for 3.5 years and persecutes the saints.

    Dan 7:25 Then the saints shall be given into his hand For a time and times and half a time.

    Rev 13:5 ... he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, ...7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. ...



    4. Both Daniel and Revleation say the Beast "speaks" blasphemy against the Lord

    Dan 7:25 'He will speak out against the Most High

    Rev 13:5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies,



    5. Both Daniel and Revelation say that when the beast is destroyed the "Kingdom's of this world" are given to Christ and "He reigns forever and ever"

    Dan 7:27 Then the kingdom and dominion, And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High. His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.'

    Rev 11:15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!"



    6. Lastly, both Daniel and Revelation, the Saints only rule WITH CHRIST once this Beast is destroyed.
    Revelations beast who I believe to be a demon influencing Rome has only 10 horns and 7 heads

    Daniels beast who I believe to be a demon influencing Greece has 11 horns and no heads

    Originally posted by The Beginner View Post
    Please explain scriptural why the Beast with 10 Horns (Dan 7) is NOT the same as the Beast with 10 Horns? (Rev).

    Is the reign of the saints with Chris the same in Dan 7 as the reign with Christ in Rev 20 in your opinion? Is so, then why not the Beast?

    THE BEAST IN DANIEL IS THE SAME AS IN REVELATION:

    1. Both Revelation and Daniel say Beast comes out of the sea

    Dan 7:3 "And four great beasts came up from the sea, each different from the other.

    Rev 13:1 Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea,...



    2. Both Revelation and Daniel say the Beast has 10 horns.

    Dan 7:7 It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns.

    Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which you saw on the beast,



    3. Both Daniel and Revelation say the Beast rules for 3.5 years and persecutes the saints.

    Dan 7:25 Then the saints shall be given into his hand For a time and times and half a time.

    Rev 13:5 ... he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, ...7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. ...



    4. Both Daniel and Revleation say the Beast "speaks" blasphemy against the Lord

    Dan 7:25 'He will speak out against the Most High

    Rev 13:5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies,



    5. Both Daniel and Revelation say that when the beast is destroyed the "Kingdom's of this world" are given to Christ and "He reigns forever and ever"

    Dan 7:27 Then the kingdom and dominion, And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High. His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.'

    Rev 11:15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!"



    6. Lastly, both Daniel and Revelation, the Saints only rule WITH CHRIST once this Beast is destroyed.
    Revelations beast who I believe to be a demon influencing Rome has only 10 horns and 7 heads

    Daniels beast who I believe to be a demon influencing Greece has 11 horns and no heads

    Comment


    • #62
      Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

      Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
      It is IMPOSSIBLE for Rev 20 to happen at the cross.
      Why do I state this so assuredly?

      Rev 20:4* Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

      AT the cross NO ONE had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus. The first person we know of who was probably beheaded was possibly James, the brother of John, in Acts 12:2. Tradition holds this view though the actual words don;t directly state it.
      Therefore there is NO ONE to be resurrected AT the cross.
      This clearly is a statement referring to a time AFTER the cross.

      What I think you are wanting to claim is that Rev 20:1 happens at the cross. However again this is CLEARLY wrong as we KNOW 100% from Rev 12 HOW Satan is defeated:
      Rev 12:11* And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death.

      It requires the cross AND the word of testimony, even under persecution.
      So this again speaks of at the earliest the martyrdom of Stephen.

      There is NOTHING in Rev 20 to suggest this event happens AT the cross, and various things which demonstrate it is a lot later.
      Yes I do mean chapter 20:1

      When I mention the cross I do mean the cross and the resurrection and people did rise from the dead at that time as Matthew tells us

      Satan isn't defeated by the saints testimony satan is defeated by Jesus

      What rev 12:11 is saying is that they personally conquered satan as in the stood firm till the end they fought the good fight

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

        Originally posted by marty fox View Post
        Revelations beast who I believe to be a demon influencing Rome has only 10 horns and 7 heads

        Daniels beast who I believe to be a demon influencing Greece has 11 horns and no heads



        Revelations beast who I believe to be a demon influencing Rome has only 10 horns and 7 heads

        Daniels beast who I believe to be a demon influencing Greece has 11 horns and no heads
        It has a head (7:20) but heads are simply mountains which means a raised area of land above sea level so it's just territory the beast and it's ten kingdoms rule over so it has multiple heads they are just not mentioned specifically in Daniel.
        James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

        Comment


        • #64
          Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

          Originally posted by marty fox View Post
          Revelations beast who I believe to be a demon influencing Rome has only 10 horns and 7 heads

          Daniels beast who I believe to be a demon influencing Greece has 11 horns and no heads
          Revelations beast has same characteristics of all Daniels beasts.


          Leopard ,lion , bear, and 10 horns.


          Dans 4th beast has iron teeth and is not described as an animal.
          Revs beast has a lions mouth.
          And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

            Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
            It has a head (7:20) but heads are simply mountains which means a raised area of land above sea level so it's just territory the beast and it's ten kingdoms rule over so it has multiple heads they are just not mentioned specifically in Daniel.
            Yes my mistake of course it has one head but I was meaning in the description let’s look at the disscription

            Daniel 7:7-8 & 19
            7 “After that, in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast—terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns.

            8 “While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a human being and a mouth that spoke boastfully.

            19 “Then I wanted to know the meaning of the fourth beast, which was different from all the others and most terrifying, with its iron teeth and bronze claws—the beast that crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left.

            Revelation 13:1-2
            The dragon[a] stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. 2 The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority.

            Not the same description at all one has iron teeth bronze claws one head and 11 horns while the other has only 10 horns with 10 crowns 7 heads and looks like a leopard with bear feet and a lions mouth but no iron teeth or bronze claws

            They are described different for a reason

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

              Originally posted by jeffweeder View Post
              Revelations beast has same characteristics of all Daniels beasts.


              Leopard ,lion , bear, and 10 horns.


              Dans 4th beast has iron teeth and is not described as an animal.
              Revs beast has a lions mouth.

              Yes I think because the lion represents Babylon the bear the Medes the leopard Persia who were consumed by Greece and then eventually by Rome

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

                Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                Yes I think because the lion represents Babylon the bear the Medes the leopard Persia who were consumed by Greece and then eventually by Rome
                Close
                Lion is Babylon , bear is Medes / Persia , leopard is Greece ( Alexander ) and 10 horns is Rome.


                Dan 8
                5 As I was thinking about this, suddenly a goat with a prominent horn between its eyes came from the west, crossing the whole earth without touching the ground.


                Alexander is more likely the swift leopard who came against the Medes / Persians.


                The two-horned ram that you saw represents the kings of Media and Persia. 21 The shaggy goat is the king of Greece, and the large horn between its eyes is the first king.
                And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

                  Originally posted by marty fox View Post

                  They are described different for a reason
                  It's not very different really and both are the last beast before a throne judgment and both cast into fire. It's clearly the same beast in both books with slightly different descriptions and less detail in one than the other. The Beginner laid out the similarities that proves it's the same beast.
                  James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

                    Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                    Revelations beast who I believe to be a demon influencing Rome has only 10 horns and 7 heads

                    Daniels beast who I believe to be a demon influencing Greece has 11 horns and no heads



                    Revelations beast who I believe to be a demon influencing Rome has only 10 horns and 7 heads

                    Daniels beast who I believe to be a demon influencing Greece has 11 horns and no heads
                    Just because Revelation gives extended details on the 10 Horned Beast does not justify making it a separate beast than the one described in Daniel. Revelation is bringing further clarity on the Old Testament prophets by building off of them, it is not replacing them by creating a new beast with 10 Horns.

                    Under this logic, I could argue that the Son of Man described in Daniel 7 is DIFFERENT than the Son of Man Described in Rev 1 and 14 because of the ADDITIONAL attributes ascribed to him such as the added Crown and Robe and sickle. Where is the robed and sickle holding Son of Man in Daniel 7? There is no robe or sickle, so must we conclude they are different....That’s an absurd conclusion.

                    Likewise, no one within the first thousand years of Christianity taught that the beast in Rev and Daniel were different. Even the early amillennialist thought they were the same.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

                      Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                      It's not very different really and both are the last beast before a throne judgment and both cast into fire. It's clearly the same beast in both books with slightly different descriptions and less detail in one than the other. The Beginner laid out the similarities that proves it's the same beast.
                      Exactly... the conclusion is unavoidable. The “reign of the saints with Christ” is the SAME in both Daniel 7 and Rev 20 even in Amill. So how could they possibly divorce the Beast from those two books when that “reign” is predicated on the destruction of the beast first?

                      Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                      It's not very different really and both are the last beast before a throne judgment and both cast into fire. It's clearly the same beast in both books with slightly different descriptions and less detail in one than the other. The Beginner laid out the similarities that proves it's the same beast.
                      Exactly... the conclusion is unavoidable. The “reign of the saints with Christ” is the SAME in both Daniel 7 and Rev 20 even in Amill. So how could they possibly divorce the Beast from those two books when that “reign” is predicated on the destruction of the beast first?

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

                        Originally posted by The Beginner View Post
                        Exactly... the conclusion is unavoidable. The “reign of the saints with Christ” is the SAME in both Daniel 7 and Rev 20 even in Amill. So how could they possibly divorce the Beast from those two books when that “reign” is predicated on the destruction of the beast first?



                        Exactly... the conclusion is unavoidable. The “reign of the saints with Christ” is the SAME in both Daniel 7 and Rev 20 even in Amill. So how could they possibly divorce the Beast from those two books when that “reign” is predicated on the destruction of the beast first?
                        All of this started with the denial that Rev 19 precedes the events of Rev 20 yet the fact that the beast is cast into the LOF in Rev 19, then Satan being cast into the LOF and the beast already being there proves chronology of events between the two chapters and since Christ's second coming is in rev 19, and that is before the beginning of the thousand years, then it's game set match for Premil (Christ returning prior to the Millennium) that being concrete evidence proving Amil is fundamentally wrong. There are various side issue like Amil trying to make Daniels beast a different beast than in Rev 13 but the foundational part of Amil has been proven wrong so all the other parts of it fall down as well.
                        James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

                          Originally posted by jeffweeder View Post
                          Close
                          Lion is Babylon , bear is Medes / Persia , leopard is Greece ( Alexander ) and 10 horns is Rome.


                          Dan 8
                          5 As I was thinking about this, suddenly a goat with a prominent horn between its eyes came from the west, crossing the whole earth without touching the ground.


                          Alexander is more likely the swift leopard who came against the Medes / Persians.


                          The two-horned ram that you saw represents the kings of Media and Persia. 21 The shaggy goat is the king of Greece, and the large horn between its eyes is the first king.
                          And the 11th horn?

                          I agree Daniel 8 is A the great

                          Originally posted by jeffweeder View Post
                          Close
                          Lion is Babylon , bear is Medes / Persia , leopard is Greece ( Alexander ) and 10 horns is Rome.


                          Dan 8
                          5 As I was thinking about this, suddenly a goat with a prominent horn between its eyes came from the west, crossing the whole earth without touching the ground.


                          Alexander is more likely the swift leopard who came against the Medes / Persians.


                          The two-horned ram that you saw represents the kings of Media and Persia. 21 The shaggy goat is the king of Greece, and the large horn between its eyes is the first king.
                          And the 11th horn?

                          I agree Daniel 8 is A the great

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

                            Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                            It's not very different really and both are the last beast before a throne judgment and both cast into fire. It's clearly the same beast in both books with slightly different descriptions and less detail in one than the other. The Beginner laid out the similarities that proves it's the same beast.
                            I see the little horn as Antiochus Epehanies the OT beast and the main figure in Revelations beast as Nero the NT beast

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

                              Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                              I see the little horn as Antiochus Epehanies the OT beast and the main figure in Revelations beast as Nero the NT beast
                              Yeah but the little horn/Rev 13 beast hasn't appeared yet. Those people are at best shadows of who is to come. It is Christ that defeats the beast and FP beast so it's not even possible that people of the past could be either the little horn nor any beast mentioned.
                              James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

                                Originally posted by The Beginner View Post
                                Just because Revelation gives extended details on the 10 Horned Beast does not justify making it a separate beast than the one described in Daniel. Revelation is bringing further clarity on the Old Testament prophets by building off of them, it is not replacing them by creating a new beast with 10 Horns.

                                Under this logic, I could argue that the Son of Man described in Daniel 7 is DIFFERENT than the Son of Man Described in Rev 1 and 14 because of the ADDITIONAL attributes ascribed to him such as the added Crown and Robe and sickle. Where is the robed and sickle holding Son of Man in Daniel 7? There is no robe or sickle, so must we conclude they are different....That’s an absurd conclusion.

                                Likewise, no one within the first thousand years of Christianity taught that the beast in Rev and Daniel were different. Even the early amillennialist thought they were the same.
                                Actually some have taught this.

                                I use to believe like you but this I have been taught by Christian Jews and many believe in this way

                                Daniels audience are the faithful Jews before the cross Johns audience are the faithful after the cross

                                I don’t believe this just from different descriptions of the beast but also past history Antiochus was the 11th King in-line in which 3 were up rooted before him. Daniel is also writing to the Jews not to us and he was warning them of their future if you were a persecuted Jew in Antiochus days who would you think Daniel was writing about? These things did happen in Jerusalem between Daniels days and before Jesus came.

                                Daniel lives in the times of being ruled under Babylon the Medes and the Persians but then is told by the angle that the king of Greece is coming.

                                Originally posted by The Beginner View Post
                                Just because Revelation gives extended details on the 10 Horned Beast does not justify making it a separate beast than the one described in Daniel. Revelation is bringing further clarity on the Old Testament prophets by building off of them, it is not replacing them by creating a new beast with 10 Horns.

                                Under this logic, I could argue that the Son of Man described in Daniel 7 is DIFFERENT than the Son of Man Described in Rev 1 and 14 because of the ADDITIONAL attributes ascribed to him such as the added Crown and Robe and sickle. Where is the robed and sickle holding Son of Man in Daniel 7? There is no robe or sickle, so must we conclude they are different....That’s an absurd conclusion.

                                Likewise, no one within the first thousand years of Christianity taught that the beast in Rev and Daniel were different. Even the early amillennialist thought they were the same.
                                Actually some have taught this.

                                I use to believe like you but this I have been taught by Christian Jews and many believe in this way

                                Daniels audience are the faithful Jews before the cross Johns audience are the faithful after the cross

                                I don’t believe this just from different descriptions of the beast but also past history Antiochus was the 11th King in-line in which 3 were up rooted before him. Daniel is also writing to the Jews not to us and he was warning them of their future if you were a persecuted Jew in Antiochus days who would you think Daniel was writing about? These things did happen in Jerusalem between Daniels days and before Jesus came.

                                Daniel lives in the times of being ruled under Babylon the Medes and the Persians but then is told by the angle that the king of Greece is coming.

                                Comment

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