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Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

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  • #76
    Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

    Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Yeah but the little horn/Rev 13 beast hasn't appeared yet. Those people are at best shadows of who is to come. It is Christ that defeats the beast and FP beast so it's not even possible that people of the past could be either the little horn nor any beast mentioned.
    But Antiochus and Nero have been defeated

    Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Yeah but the little horn/Rev 13 beast hasn't appeared yet. Those people are at best shadows of who is to come. It is Christ that defeats the beast and FP beast so it's not even possible that people of the past could be either the little horn nor any beast mentioned.
    But Antiochus and Nero have been defeated

    Comment


    • #77
      Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

      Originally posted by marty fox View Post
      But Antiochus and Nero have been defeated

      Not by Christ as shown in Rev 19. The beast and FP are only defeated at the second coming which means no one in the past qualifies as being either.
      James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

      Comment


      • #78
        Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

        Originally posted by marty fox View Post
        When I mention the cross I do mean the cross and the resurrection and people did rise from the dead at that time as Matthew tells us
        Sorry, but the people who were raised from the dead in Matthew, were raised PRIOR to Jesus' resurrection. Yet NO ONE is resurrected prior to Jesus.

        Satan isn't defeated by the saints testimony satan is defeated by Jesus
        What rev 12:11 is saying is that they personally conquered satan as in the stood firm till the end they fought the good fight
        Nope, it simply means what it says, that through the testimony of saints THROUGH the Age, and WITH the blood of the Lamb (BOTH required) Satan is defeated IN Heaven.
        It does NOT refer to Satan being cast out of an individual's life.

        Comment


        • #79
          Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

          Sorry, but the people who were raised from the dead in Matthew, were raised PRIOR to Jesus' resurrection. Yet NO ONE is resurrected prior to Jesus.
          Humm you just contradicted yourself LOL


          Yes I know that's why I said at that time as they rose when Jesus died but they didn't come out until He rose. That would of been something to see eh?


          Nope, it simply means what it says, that through the testimony of saints THROUGH the Age, and WITH the blood of the Lamb (BOTH required) Satan is defeated IN Heaven.
          It does NOT refer to Satan being cast out of an individual's life.
          Revelation 12:10-12
          10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
          “Now have come the salvation and the power
          and the kingdom of our God,
          and the authority of his Messiah.
          For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
          who accuses them before our God day and night,
          has been hurled down.
          11
          They triumphed over him
          by the blood of the Lamb
          and by the word of their testimony;
          they did not love their lives so much
          as to shrink from death.
          12
          Therefore rejoice, you heavens
          and you who dwell in them!
          But woe to the earth and the sea,
          because the devil has gone down to you!
          He is filled with fury,
          because he knows that his time is short.”


          But it doesn't say "through the age" you added that in. We each individually overcome satan because of what Jesus did its our faith in him our testimony

          1 Phill 4:13

          I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me

          Comment


          • #80
            Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

            Originally posted by marty fox View Post
            Humm you just contradicted yourself LOL
            Nope, being raised from the dead is not the same as a resurrection.
            Lazarus was raised from the dead, but he was not resurrected.
            The difference in terminology is that simply being raised from the dead means you die again, but being resurrected is to eternal life.

            Yes I know that's why I said at that time as they rose when Jesus died but they didn't come out until He rose. That would of been something to see eh?
            They therefore were NOT resurrected to eternal life, and are NOT part of Rev 20.

            Revelation 12:10-12
            10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
            “Now have come the salvation and the power
            and the kingdom of our God,
            and the authority of his Messiah.
            For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
            who accuses them before our God day and night,
            has been hurled down.
            11
            They triumphed over him
            by the blood of the Lamb
            and by the word of their testimony;
            they did not love their lives so much
            as to shrink from death.
            12
            Therefore rejoice, you heavens
            and you who dwell in them!
            But woe to the earth and the sea,
            because the devil has gone down to you!
            He is filled with fury,
            because he knows that his time is short.”


            But it doesn't say "through the age" you added that in. We each individually overcome satan because of what Jesus did its our faith in him our testimony
            It does NOT need to say "through the age". The ONLY question is IN WHICH age does it happen.
            He has been hurled BECAUSE of their triumphing over him BY the word of THEIR testimony (of Jesus in their lives) and the blood of the Lamb.

            1 Phill 4:13 I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me
            And? So what? It doesn't mean that you HURL Satan from heaven, and then I hurl Satan from heaven etc.
            There is ONLY ONE event when Satan is hurled out of heaven, and it is NOT BEFORE the cross, nor AT His death on the cross, but AT His being crowned. Notice it states "Now have come the salvation and power and the kingdom..."

            Comment


            • #81
              Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

              Also to add, it clearly states THEY triumphed... which means it is NOT about individualistic salvation.
              Too many doctrines are based on Western individualism, when a lot is on a group/family level.

              Comment


              • #82
                Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

                Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                The serpent is a reference to satan in the garden of eden it ties the two together
                Explain. Why can't the Dragon be more than Satan individually, but Satan and all that he represents as well?
                As the "thief" in the night, Christ is going to suddenly appear on the throne of Israel - not the antichrist.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

                  Originally posted by Aijalon View Post
                  Explain. Why can't the Dragon be more than Satan individually, but Satan and all that he represents as well?
                  A dragon alone is just Satan but a dragon with horns etc means Satan and his formula for an empire found in Daniel 7, Rev 12 and 13, and it's horns and heads metaphors explained in Rev 17.
                  James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

                    Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                    Actually some have taught this.
                    Which early father taught your belief that the beast in Dan 7 is different than Rev?

                    No Christian within 1000 years taught that! They all taught that they were the same beast

                    For example:



                    Hippolytus Fragments 2.1
                    27. As these things, then, are in the future, and as the ten toes of the image are equivalent to (so many) democracies,32 and the ten horns of the fourth beast are distributed over ten kingdoms, let us look at the subject a little more closely, and consider these matters as in the clear light of a personal survey.33

                    47. For John says, “And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.” (Rev 11:3) That is the half of the week whereof Daniel spake. “These are the two olive trees and the two candlesticks standing before the Lord of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire will proceed out of their mouth, and devour their enemies; and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy; and have power over waters, to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues as often as they will. And when they shall have finished their course and their testimony,” what saith the prophet? “the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them,” (Rev 11:4-6) because they will not give glory to Antichrist. For this is meant by the little horn that grows up. He, being now elated in heart, begins to exalt himself, and to glorify himself as God, persecuting the saints and blaspheming Christ, even as Daniel says, “I considered the horn, and, behold, in the horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things; and he opened his mouth to blaspheme God. And that born made war against the saints, and prevailed against them until the beast was slain, and perished, and his body was given to be burned.” (Dan 7:8, Dan 7:9)

                    48. But as it is incumbent on us to discuss this matter of the beast more exactly, and in particular the question how the Holy Spirit has also mystically indicated his name by means of a number, we shall proceed to state more clearly what bears upon him. John then speaks thus: “And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns, like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. And he exercised all the power of the first beast before him; and he made the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. And he did great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, and deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast, saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast which had the wound by a sword and did live. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. And he caused all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand or in their forehead; and that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast; for if is the number of a man, and his number is six hundred threescore and six.” (Rev 13:11-18)

                    49. By the beast, then, coming up out of the earth, he means the kingdom of Antichrist; and by the two horns he means him and the false prophet after him.54 And in speaking of “the horns being like a lamb,” he means that he will make himself like the Son of God, and set himself forward as king. And the terms, “he spake like a dragon,” mean that he is a deceiver, and not truthful. And the words, “he exercised all the power of the first beast before him, and caused the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed,” signify that, after the manner of the law of Augustus, by whom the empire of Rome was established, he too will rule and govern, sanctioning everything by it, and taking greater glory to himself. For this is the fourth beast, whose head was wounded and healed again, in its being broken up or even dishonoured, and partitioned into four crowns; and he then (Antichrist) shall with knavish skill heal it, as it were, and restore it. For this is what is meant by the prophet when he says, “He will give life unto the image, and the image of the beast will speak.” For he will act with vigour again, and prove strong by reason of the laws established by him; and he will cause all those who will not worship the image of the beast to be put to death. Here the faith and the patience of the saints will appear, for he says: “And he will cause all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand or in their forehead; that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, the name of the beast, or the number of his name.” For, being full of guile, and exalting himself against the servants of God, with the wish to afflict them and persecute them out of the world, because they give not glory to him, he will order incense-pans55 to be set up by all everywhere, that no man among the saints may be able to buy or sell without first sacrificing; for this is what is meant by the mark received upon the right hand. And the word - ”in their forehead” - indicates that all are crowned, and put on a crown of fire, and not of life, but of death. For in ibis wise, too, did Antiochus Epiphanes the king of Syria, the descendant of Alexander of Macedon, devise measures against the Jews. He, too, in the exaltation of his heart, issued a decree in those times, that “all should set up shrines before their doors, and sacrifice, and that they should march in procession to the honour of Dionysus, waving chaplets of ivy;” and that those who refused obedience should be put to death by strangulation and torture. But he also met his due recompense at the hand of the Lord, the righteous Judge and all-searching God; for he died eaten up of worms. And if one desires to inquire into that more accurately, he will find it recorded in the books of the Maccabees.



                    Victorinus Commentary on the Apocalypse
                    Rev 17:11 “And the beast which thou sawest is of the seven.”] Since before those kings Nero reigned.

                    “And he is the eighth.”] He says only when this beast shall come, reckon it the eighth place, since in that is the completion. He added: -

                    “And shall go into perdition.”] For that ten kings received royal power when he shall move from the east, he says. He shall be sent from the city of Rome with his armies. And Daniel sets forth the ten horns and the ten diadems. And that these are eradicated from the former ones, - that is, that three of the principal leaders are killed by Antichrist: that the other seven give him honour and wisdom and power, of whom he says: -


                    Ireneaus Against Heresies Book 5 Chap. XXVI.

                    1. In a still clearer light has John, in the Apocalypse, indicated to the Lord’s disciples what shall happen in the last times, and concerning the ten kings who shall then arise, among whom the empire which now rules [the earth] shall be partitioned. He teaches us what the ten horns shall be which were seen by Daniel, telling us that thus it had been said to him: “And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, who have received no kingdom as yet, but shall receive power as if kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and give their strength and power to the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them, because He is the Lord of lords and the King of kings.” (Rev 17:12, etc.) It is manifest, therefore, that of these [potentates], he who is to come shall slay three, and subject the remainder to his power, and that he shall be himself the eighth among them. And they shall lay Babylon waste, and burn her with fire, and shall give their kingdom to the beast, and put the Church to flight. After that they shall be destroyed by the coming of our Lord. For that the kingdom must be divided, and thus come to ruin, the Lord [declares when He] says: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand.” (Mat 12:25) It must be, therefore, that the kingdom, the city, and the house be divided into ten; and for this reason He has already foreshadowed the partition and division [which shall take place]. Daniel also says particularly, that the end of the fourth kingdom consists in the toes of the image seen by Nebuchadnezzar, upon which came the stone cut out without hands; and as he does himself say: “The feet were indeed the one part iron, the other part clay, until the stone was cut out without hands, and struck the image upon the iron and clay feet, and dashed them into pieces, even to the end.” (Dan 2:33, Dan 2:34) Then afterwards, when interpreting this, he says: “And as thou sawest the feet and the toes, partly indeed of clay, and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided, and there shall be in it a root of iron, as thou sawest iron mixed with baked clay. And the toes were indeed the one part iron, but the other part clay.” (Dan 2:41, Dan 2:42) The ten toes, therefore, are these ten kings, among whom the kingdom shall be partitioned, of whom some indeed shall be strong and active, or energetic; others, again, shall be sluggish and useless, and shall not agree; as also Daniel says: “Some part of the kingdom shall be strong, and part shall be broken from it. As thou sawest the iron mixed with the baked clay, there shall be minglings among the human race, but no cohesion one with the other, just as iron cannot be welded on to pottery ware.” (Dan 2:42, Dan 2:43) And since an end shall take place, he says: “And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven raise up a kingdom which shall never decay, and His kingdom shall not be left to another people. It shall break in pieces and shatter all kingdoms, and shall itself be exalted for ever. As thou sawest that the stone was cut without hands from the mountain, and brake in pieces the baked clay, the iron, the brass, the silver, and the gold, God has pointed out to the king what shall come to pass after these things; and the dream is true, and the interpretation trustworthy.” (Dan 2:44, Dan 2:45)


                    St Augustine City of God Ch 23
                    Daniel prophesies of the last judgment in such a way as to indicate that Antichrist shall first come, and to carry on his description to the eternal reign of the saints. For when in prophetic vision he had seen four beasts, signifying four kingdoms, and the fourth conquered by a certain king, who is recognized as Antichrist, and after this the eternal kingdom of the Son of man, that is to say, of Christ, he says, “My spirit was terrified, I Daniel in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me,”1435 etc. Some have interpreted these four kingdoms as signifying those of the Assyrians, Persians, Macedonians, and Romans. They who desire to understand the fitness of this interpretation may read Jerome’s book on Daniel, which is written with a sufficiency of care and erudition. But he who reads this passage, even half asleep, cannot fail to see that the kingdom of Antichrist shall fiercely, though for a short time, assail the Church before the last judgment of God shall introduce the eternal reign of the saints. For it is patent from the context that the time, times, and half a time, means a year, and two years, and half a year, that is to say, three years and a half. Sometimes in Scripture the same thing is indicated by months. For though the word times seems to be used here in the Latin indefinitely, that is only because the Latins have no dual, as the Greeks have, and as the Hebrews also are said to have. Times, therefore, is used for two times. As for the ten kings, whom, as it seems, Antichrist is to find in the person of ten individuals when he comes, I own I am afraid we may be deceived in this, and that he may come unexpectedly while there are not ten kings living in the Roman world. For what if this number ten signifies the whole number of kings who are to precede his coming, as totality is frequently symbolized by a thousand, or a hundred, or seven, or other numbers, which it is not necessary to recount?[/QUOTE]

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

                      Originally posted by Aijalon View Post
                      Explain. Why can't the Dragon be more than Satan individually, but Satan and all that he represents as well?
                      Because of the verse below

                      Rev 12:9
                      . 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

                      The dragon is called the serpent and the devil

                      Originally posted by Aijalon View Post
                      Explain. Why can't the Dragon be more than Satan individually, but Satan and all that he represents as well?
                      Because of the verse below

                      Rev 12:9
                      . 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

                      The dragon is called the serpent and the devil

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

                        Originally posted by The Beginner View Post
                        Which early father taught your belief that the beast in Dan 7 is different than Rev?

                        No Christian within 1000 years taught that! They all taught that they were the same beast

                        For example:



                        Hippolytus Fragments 2.1
                        27. As these things, then, are in the future, and as the ten toes of the image are equivalent to (so many) democracies,32 and the ten horns of the fourth beast are distributed over ten kingdoms, let us look at the subject a little more closely, and consider these matters as in the clear light of a personal survey.33

                        47. For John says, “And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.” (Rev 11:3) That is the half of the week whereof Daniel spake. “These are the two olive trees and the two candlesticks standing before the Lord of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire will proceed out of their mouth, and devour their enemies; and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy; and have power over waters, to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues as often as they will. And when they shall have finished their course and their testimony,” what saith the prophet? “the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them,” (Rev 11:4-6) because they will not give glory to Antichrist. For this is meant by the little horn that grows up. He, being now elated in heart, begins to exalt himself, and to glorify himself as God, persecuting the saints and blaspheming Christ, even as Daniel says, “I considered the horn, and, behold, in the horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things; and he opened his mouth to blaspheme God. And that born made war against the saints, and prevailed against them until the beast was slain, and perished, and his body was given to be burned.” (Dan 7:8, Dan 7:9)

                        48. But as it is incumbent on us to discuss this matter of the beast more exactly, and in particular the question how the Holy Spirit has also mystically indicated his name by means of a number, we shall proceed to state more clearly what bears upon him. John then speaks thus: “And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns, like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. And he exercised all the power of the first beast before him; and he made the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. And he did great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, and deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast, saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast which had the wound by a sword and did live. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. And he caused all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand or in their forehead; and that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast; for if is the number of a man, and his number is six hundred threescore and six.” (Rev 13:11-18)

                        49. By the beast, then, coming up out of the earth, he means the kingdom of Antichrist; and by the two horns he means him and the false prophet after him.54 And in speaking of “the horns being like a lamb,” he means that he will make himself like the Son of God, and set himself forward as king. And the terms, “he spake like a dragon,” mean that he is a deceiver, and not truthful. And the words, “he exercised all the power of the first beast before him, and caused the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed,” signify that, after the manner of the law of Augustus, by whom the empire of Rome was established, he too will rule and govern, sanctioning everything by it, and taking greater glory to himself. For this is the fourth beast, whose head was wounded and healed again, in its being broken up or even dishonoured, and partitioned into four crowns; and he then (Antichrist) shall with knavish skill heal it, as it were, and restore it. For this is what is meant by the prophet when he says, “He will give life unto the image, and the image of the beast will speak.” For he will act with vigour again, and prove strong by reason of the laws established by him; and he will cause all those who will not worship the image of the beast to be put to death. Here the faith and the patience of the saints will appear, for he says: “And he will cause all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand or in their forehead; that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, the name of the beast, or the number of his name.” For, being full of guile, and exalting himself against the servants of God, with the wish to afflict them and persecute them out of the world, because they give not glory to him, he will order incense-pans55 to be set up by all everywhere, that no man among the saints may be able to buy or sell without first sacrificing; for this is what is meant by the mark received upon the right hand. And the word - ”in their forehead” - indicates that all are crowned, and put on a crown of fire, and not of life, but of death. For in ibis wise, too, did Antiochus Epiphanes the king of Syria, the descendant of Alexander of Macedon, devise measures against the Jews. He, too, in the exaltation of his heart, issued a decree in those times, that “all should set up shrines before their doors, and sacrifice, and that they should march in procession to the honour of Dionysus, waving chaplets of ivy;” and that those who refused obedience should be put to death by strangulation and torture. But he also met his due recompense at the hand of the Lord, the righteous Judge and all-searching God; for he died eaten up of worms. And if one desires to inquire into that more accurately, he will find it recorded in the books of the Maccabees.



                        Victorinus Commentary on the Apocalypse
                        Rev 17:11 “And the beast which thou sawest is of the seven.”] Since before those kings Nero reigned.

                        “And he is the eighth.”] He says only when this beast shall come, reckon it the eighth place, since in that is the completion. He added: -

                        “And shall go into perdition.”] For that ten kings received royal power when he shall move from the east, he says. He shall be sent from the city of Rome with his armies. And Daniel sets forth the ten horns and the ten diadems. And that these are eradicated from the former ones, - that is, that three of the principal leaders are killed by Antichrist: that the other seven give him honour and wisdom and power, of whom he says: -


                        Ireneaus Against Heresies Book 5 Chap. XXVI.

                        1. In a still clearer light has John, in the Apocalypse, indicated to the Lord’s disciples what shall happen in the last times, and concerning the ten kings who shall then arise, among whom the empire which now rules [the earth] shall be partitioned. He teaches us what the ten horns shall be which were seen by Daniel, telling us that thus it had been said to him: “And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, who have received no kingdom as yet, but shall receive power as if kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and give their strength and power to the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them, because He is the Lord of lords and the King of kings.” (Rev 17:12, etc.) It is manifest, therefore, that of these [potentates], he who is to come shall slay three, and subject the remainder to his power, and that he shall be himself the eighth among them. And they shall lay Babylon waste, and burn her with fire, and shall give their kingdom to the beast, and put the Church to flight. After that they shall be destroyed by the coming of our Lord. For that the kingdom must be divided, and thus come to ruin, the Lord [declares when He] says: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand.” (Mat 12:25) It must be, therefore, that the kingdom, the city, and the house be divided into ten; and for this reason He has already foreshadowed the partition and division [which shall take place]. Daniel also says particularly, that the end of the fourth kingdom consists in the toes of the image seen by Nebuchadnezzar, upon which came the stone cut out without hands; and as he does himself say: “The feet were indeed the one part iron, the other part clay, until the stone was cut out without hands, and struck the image upon the iron and clay feet, and dashed them into pieces, even to the end.” (Dan 2:33, Dan 2:34) Then afterwards, when interpreting this, he says: “And as thou sawest the feet and the toes, partly indeed of clay, and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided, and there shall be in it a root of iron, as thou sawest iron mixed with baked clay. And the toes were indeed the one part iron, but the other part clay.” (Dan 2:41, Dan 2:42) The ten toes, therefore, are these ten kings, among whom the kingdom shall be partitioned, of whom some indeed shall be strong and active, or energetic; others, again, shall be sluggish and useless, and shall not agree; as also Daniel says: “Some part of the kingdom shall be strong, and part shall be broken from it. As thou sawest the iron mixed with the baked clay, there shall be minglings among the human race, but no cohesion one with the other, just as iron cannot be welded on to pottery ware.” (Dan 2:42, Dan 2:43) And since an end shall take place, he says: “And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven raise up a kingdom which shall never decay, and His kingdom shall not be left to another people. It shall break in pieces and shatter all kingdoms, and shall itself be exalted for ever. As thou sawest that the stone was cut without hands from the mountain, and brake in pieces the baked clay, the iron, the brass, the silver, and the gold, God has pointed out to the king what shall come to pass after these things; and the dream is true, and the interpretation trustworthy.” (Dan 2:44, Dan 2:45)


                        St Augustine City of God Ch 23
                        Daniel prophesies of the last judgment in such a way as to indicate that Antichrist shall first come, and to carry on his description to the eternal reign of the saints. For when in prophetic vision he had seen four beasts, signifying four kingdoms, and the fourth conquered by a certain king, who is recognized as Antichrist, and after this the eternal kingdom of the Son of man, that is to say, of Christ, he says, “My spirit was terrified, I Daniel in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me,”1435 etc. Some have interpreted these four kingdoms as signifying those of the Assyrians, Persians, Macedonians, and Romans. They who desire to understand the fitness of this interpretation may read Jerome’s book on Daniel, which is written with a sufficiency of care and erudition. But he who reads this passage, even half asleep, cannot fail to see that the kingdom of Antichrist shall fiercely, though for a short time, assail the Church before the last judgment of God shall introduce the eternal reign of the saints. For it is patent from the context that the time, times, and half a time, means a year, and two years, and half a year, that is to say, three years and a half. Sometimes in Scripture the same thing is indicated by months. For though the word times seems to be used here in the Latin indefinitely, that is only because the Latins have no dual, as the Greeks have, and as the Hebrews also are said to have. Times, therefore, is used for two times. As for the ten kings, whom, as it seems, Antichrist is to find in the person of ten individuals when he comes, I own I am afraid we may be deceived in this, and that he may come unexpectedly while there are not ten kings living in the Roman world. For what if this number ten signifies the whole number of kings who are to precede his coming, as totality is frequently symbolized by a thousand, or a hundred, or seven, or other numbers, which it is not necessary to recount?
                        [/QUOTE]

                        I didn’t say early church fathers as I don’t study or quote them as they have no biblical authority and don’t all agree together and have made mistakes

                        Some Early Christian Jews did believe it and passed it down that is were I learned it from how do you know what every Christian in the first thousand years taught?

                        Saying that no Christians in the first thousand years believed it is a ridicules statement

                        The books of Maccabees sheds some light on Antiochus

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

                          Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
                          Nope, being raised from the dead is not the same as a resurrection.
                          Lazarus was raised from the dead, but he was not resurrected.
                          The difference in terminology is that simply being raised from the dead means you die again, but being resurrected is to eternal life.


                          They therefore were NOT resurrected to eternal life, and are NOT part of Rev 20.


                          It does NOT need to say "through the age". The ONLY question is IN WHICH age does it happen.
                          He has been hurled BECAUSE of their triumphing over him BY the word of THEIR testimony (of Jesus in their lives) and the blood of the Lamb.


                          And? So what? It doesn't mean that you HURL Satan from heaven, and then I hurl Satan from heaven etc.
                          There is ONLY ONE event when Satan is hurled out of heaven, and it is NOT BEFORE the cross, nor AT His death on the cross, but AT His being crowned. Notice it states "Now have come the salvation and power and the kingdom..."
                          You said it said through the age not me that was your statement

                          I don’t see what your getting at Michael cast Satan out of heaven not us we over come satan in our lives through Christ

                          Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
                          Nope, being raised from the dead is not the same as a resurrection.
                          Lazarus was raised from the dead, but he was not resurrected.
                          The difference in terminology is that simply being raised from the dead means you die again, but being resurrected is to eternal life.


                          They therefore were NOT resurrected to eternal life, and are NOT part of Rev 20.


                          It does NOT need to say "through the age". The ONLY question is IN WHICH age does it happen.
                          He has been hurled BECAUSE of their triumphing over him BY the word of THEIR testimony (of Jesus in their lives) and the blood of the Lamb.


                          And? So what? It doesn't mean that you HURL Satan from heaven, and then I hurl Satan from heaven etc.
                          There is ONLY ONE event when Satan is hurled out of heaven, and it is NOT BEFORE the cross, nor AT His death on the cross, but AT His being crowned. Notice it states "Now have come the salvation and power and the kingdom..."
                          You said it said through the age not me that was your statement

                          I don’t see what your getting at Michael cast Satan out of heaven not us we over come satan in our lives through Christ

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

                            [QUOTE=marty fox;3509595]You said it said through the age not me that was your statement
                            I don’t see what your getting at Michael cast Satan out of heaven not us we over come satan in our lives through Christ/QUOTE]
                            I did indeed say through the age.
                            The statement in Rev 12 is very CLEAR and I wonder at you not reading what is stated:
                            Rev 12:11* And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death.

                            Is this Michael conquering Satan?
                            No, this is about HOW Michael is able to cast Satan out of Heaven.
                            TWO things stated:
                            1) the blood of the Lamb
                            2) the word of their testimony

                            The "their" in their testimony is NOT Michael's testimony but the saints.

                            So Michael casts Satan out of heaven BECAUSE of the blood of the Lamb AND the word of testimony.

                            This is NOT about US overcoming Satan in our lives, but about US together, by our testimony gaining the victory over Satan.
                            It is NOT about an individual therefore triumphing over Satan, but the COLLECTIVE of ALL our testimony triumphing over Satan.

                            IOW it is NOT about ME an individual, but US as His witnesses.
                            This ties back into the delay in Rev 6:11 whilst they wait for more to be slain - note they loved not their lives unto death.

                            Therefore there is NO POSSIBLE way this can be referring to people who died PRIOR to Jesus, nor is about when Jesus died.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

                              =marty fox;3509594]

                              I didn’t say early church fathers as I don’t study or quote them as they have no biblical authority and don’t all agree together and have made mistakes
                              You said “early Christian” wrote about your view point. Regardless if they were Jewish or gentile would make them apart of the ante nicean group associated with those fathers. We only have a limited number of records of any of those “early Christian” writings. No one taught that the beast in Daniel was different that’s the beast in Rev.

                              Using pre Christian sources like Maccabees does not qualify as “early Christian” and cannot be a valid source of our discussion because Revelation was not even written then!

                              Some Early Christian Jews did believe it and passed it down that is were I learned it from how do you know what every Christian in the first thousand years taught?

                              Saying that no Christians in the first thousand years believed it is a ridicules statement
                              It’s not ridicules, I actually study their writings. You do not. Therefore, by what authority can you say my statement is ridicules when you don’t even know the material? There is a plethora of historical writings available on the believers, church leaders and theologians of the first millennia. To my knowledge there was not anyone who taught that the beast in Dan was DIFFERENT than the one in Rev in any of the historical writings. They all taught they were the same. Your interpretation is simply a private one compared to the understanding of church history dating back to the time of Christ.

                              The books of Maccabees sheds some light on Antiochus
                              I’ve read Maccabees, and it has nothing to do with our discussion. The Jews believed that Antiochus as the fulfillment of the leaped, and little horn of Daniel 8 and 11. So what? That has nothing to do with how they compared the beast in Dan to the beast in Rev. Judas M was not even alive during Johns writing. Nor did the Maccabees directly correlate the reign of Antiochus to the fourth beast...

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

                                Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                                Revelations beast who I believe to be a demon influencing Rome has only 10 horns and 7 heads

                                Daniels beast who I believe to be a demon influencing Greece has 11 horns and no heads
                                The 11th Horn is the 7th Head. Only six heads have come, the 7th will be the Anti-Christ.

                                The CROWNS DESIGNATE who is being spoken of, the 7 Heads and 10 horns ever change, Daniel just isn't told about anything that came before him per se, and Gabriel/God is vague about the Last Beast a reconstituted Rome so to speak. But he is different from the 1st [Rome Beast] in that he is the Beast all unto himself.

                                Rev. 12 is about Satan, thus the CROWNS are on the Head and Satan is over all the Kingdoms of the Earth, these are just 7 in a certain Region.

                                Rev. 13 is about the Anti-Christ, thus the CROWNS are on the 10 Horns who freely give their power unto him. This hes over 10 Kings, who the Conquer the World, but they are all under Satan, thus he has ONLY CROWNS on the 10 Kings [Horns}.

                                Rev. 17 is about a Demon named Apollyon, thus he a Scarlet Colored Beat not the Red Dragon, he has NO CROWNS, because in the heavenlies hes under Satan he is a King, but hes the King of the bottomless pit, thus he is of the 7 but is an 8th. Satan places Demon over regions/cities/countries etc. He was the prince of Persia who withstood Michael for 21 days, he was over Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, then Greece and Rome....then he WAS NOT in that God placed him in the bottomless pit where he resides even now. When its time to revive the Beast he will be released at the 1st Woe, thus HE WAS........IS NOT...........YET IS.

                                Daniel and Revelation is about the same Kingdoms on earth, John is just shown more details about the Little Horn and eve about Apollyon. John is given the False Prophet, Daniel was not given the False Prophet, though he does talk a little about his TYPE without mentioning his name {Jason} in Daniel 11 when he speaks about the children of Israel doing exploits to save their country in Daniel 11:30-33.

                                The reason Daniel was not given the info about the coming False Prophet is very evident, remember how King Herod tried to kill all the babies under 2 because of a Prophecy about the coming King Jesus ? Well times 100 the High Priests of Israel who would have been killed during the next 500 years if Daniel had of bee given what John was given, thus Daniel was given nothing about the coming False Prophet, who will be a High Priest. {Jason, real name Yeshua, tried to Hellenize the Jews but the Maccabeans Revolted}.

                                The 7 Heads of Rev. are all the Beasts.

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