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The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

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  • #31
    Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

    Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
    It can't be three of the ten as all ten are intact until the second coming.

    12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
    13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
    14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them:

    The three subdued are the Lion, Bear, Leopard.

    12 As concerning the rest of the beasts (Lion, Bear, Leopard) they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
    I get why you claim that, but Dan 7:8 does NOT allow for your view:
    Dan 7:8* I considered the horns, and behold, there came up among them another horn, a little one, before which three of the first horns were plucked up by the roots. And behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things.*

    It clearly states "three of the FIRST horns" that is three of the 10 horns that came up BEFORE the 11th horn did.

    Now your quote from Revelation shows that AT the time of the 11th horn (king) who will be the AC or beast, ALL 10 of those horns WILL BE in power and ruling.
    They ALL give their power to the 11th. It is AFTER they do this that then the 11th uproots three of them.

    The three subdued are NOT the Lion, Bear and Leopard. The Leopard had four heads, and four wings and is the four horned goat of Greece.

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    • #32
      Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

      Originally posted by henrychills View Post
      What you call barbarian tribes were "Christians" when they carved up the Western Roman Empire.
      Nope, they certainly were NOT Christians when they carved up Rome. They were NOT all Arian.
      You noted three which were not, but actually who else are you trying to claim were?

      Are you claiming the Alemanni were Christians?
      In 496, the Alemanni were conquered by Frankish leader Clovis and incorporated into his dominions. Mentioned as still pagan allies of the Christian Franks, the Alemanni were gradually Christianized during the seventh century.

      You really need to get BOTH your facts straight as well as scripture.

      In the second partial fulfillment: There are 10 Christian presidents beginning with Truman (who called fire down from heaven) and ending with Clinton.
      Wow! Sorry but there is NO partial fulfillment, and NEITHER did these 10 give their power to an 11th - Obama?
      Also ALL 10 are in power at the same time as BOTH Dan 7 and Rev 17:12 attests.

      And in the final application that focuses on the other leg, the Eastern Roman Empire, the three kings are Islamic.
      As the Western Roman Empire fought religious kings that opposed the prevailing (papal teachings)
      America is opposing Islamic kings and kingdoms that oppose (Protestant dogma).
      There is not much that I can add to what I have already posted.
      My reading of Scripture will be seen as true when President Pence is fighting Iran
      or my reading of the prophecies will be proven wrong.
      I would add that when my reading is confirmed,
      there will not be too much time to unlearn the false teachings and to study the truth
      So it is good that we are looking now, before it is too late to secure our oil supply and trim our lamps.
      It is ALWAYS good to study the truth.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

        Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
        1. From the 7:19, 20 and 24 we know that the Fourth beast is Rome.
        2. A horn/king [AC] different from the 10 kings seem to be directly linked with the fall of the 3 kings. Dan 7:20 and about the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn that came up and before which three of them fell, the horn that had eyes and a mouth that spoke great things, and that seemed greater than its companions. 21 As I looked, this horn made war with the saints and prevailed over them

        You alluded that the 3 kings are the Lion, Bear and Leopard, so how does this fit with the inference that the 3 kings were subdued by this horn/king whom we all agree is the AC? I mean, the Lion, Bear and Leopard kingdoms have already fallen whereas the AC is yet to come?
        Nope from Dan 7:17 we KNOW that the fourth beast is NOT Rome:
        Dan 7:17* ‘These four great beasts are four kings who shall arise out of the earth.*

        Most who list these four have:
        Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome.

        However as Babylon already was a king, and at the time when Daniel had this vision, the last king of Babylon was already reigning, so NO further kings of Babylon, we need to remove Babylon from the list.

        This then means we have Persia, Greece and Rome, followed by one further kingdom.
        A beast which has teeth and feet, AND 10 horns and a little horn.

        IF we agree the little horn is the AC, and the 10 horns match the 10 horns of Rev 17:12, then this means the fourth beast has two periods, that of the teeth and feet, followed by that of the horns.
        If we also agree that the 10 horns match the 10 Toes of Dan 2, THEN we can connect the 4th beast of a composite, which matches the Feet of Dan 2 kingdom.

        This makes it clear that the 3 horns are part of the Gryphon, Bear and Leopard BECAUSE the beast itself is comprised of those as noted in Rev 17. Yet the 3 are NOT those actual kingdoms for they have gone (with the leopard having 4 heads (and as we read in Dan 8, 4 horns).

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

          Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
          1. From the 7:19, 20 and 24 we know that the Fourth beast is Rome.
          2. A horn/king [AC] different from the 10 kings seem to be directly linked with the fall of the 3 kings. Dan 7:20 and about the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn that came up and before which three of them fell, the horn that had eyes and a mouth that spoke great things, and that seemed greater than its companions. 21 As I looked, this horn made war with the saints and prevailed over them

          You alluded that the 3 kings are the Lion, Bear and Leopard, so how does this fit with the inference that the 3 kings were subdued by this horn/king whom we all agree is the AC? I mean, the Lion, Bear and Leopard kingdoms have already fallen whereas the AC is yet to come?
          Yes, that takes me back to my earlier understanding, because the Little Horn is DIVERSE from the First Roman Beast.

          My earlier understanding was that there are 10 Kings/Powers that give their Power unto the Beast, but he subdues three who understand who he is and tries to back out of the agreement. He no doubts replaces them with another leader etc. etc., just because John is not given the details means nothing. Daniel is not given the False Prophet, John is given the False Prophet, God has his reasons. My thinking on that is the Jews would have been trying to kill High Priests for the next 500 or so years had Daniel been given the False Prophet angle, I think the False Prophet is a High Priest like unto Jason {under Antiochus}. So God has His reasons, just because he doesn't mention it to John means very little in my eyes.

          In Prophecy we always have to double check before we go forth, or triple check.....so it's just part of progression.

          As per who they are, they will be Three Kings who try to back out of the agreement they made with the Anti-Christ.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

            Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
            I get why you claim that, but Dan 7:8 does NOT allow for your view:
            Dan 7:8* I considered the horns, and behold, there came up among them another horn, a little one, before which three of the first horns were plucked up by the roots. And behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things.*
            Likewise I see why most think that sense it says horns that it most be three of the ten. But again, it cant be three of the ten as all ten are in tact and none appear subdued upon the time of the 2nd coming.

            Note Daniel does clarify that three "kings" are subdued. So Daniel is one verse says three horns but in another says three kings...…. So we know the ten horns are ten kings thus why can't the three kings (lion, bear, leopard) be horns as well?

            24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.


            Thus the three subdued must be the Lion, bear, Leopard.

            1. All 10 horns intact at the second coming.
            2. Daniel does state also three kings are subdued.
            3. Daniel does mention the three beasts having power taken away which would allude to being subdued.
            4.. The Lion, Bear, Leopard are the only set of three mentioned which could be the three subdued.
            5. And it does make sense the 4th beast would subdue those before him and not part of himself.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

              Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
              Interesting indeed. I am unable to respond as am yet to ascertain whether the American influence you made centre stage is the scriptural fulfilment of the prophecy.
              It took me 25 years of prayerful study. The Holy spirit has His way of leading us to truth. And His own timing.

              Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
              I'm inclined to agree that the answer is not in long gone barbarian tribes who lived BEFORE the rise of the AC. The context is clear that the three fallen kings are linked to the AC.
              However, They do align with the partial fulfillment when the papal allies toppled three kings from the Western Roman Empire when the portion of the Roman Empire that contained the city state of Rome was carved up.

              Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
              Dan 7:24 As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings shall arise, and another shall arise after them; he shall be different from the former ones and shall put down three kings.

              I note the following:

              1. The 10 horns are associated with the end-time Antichrist, not the fallen beasts (lion, bear and leopard) cited.
              2. The passage said that (a) 10 kings shall rise from the 10 horns. And another king different from the others shall rise after them and put down 3 kings presumably from the 10, leaving 7 standing.
              In the endtime, the lion links to President Reagan; bear, Bush I; leopard, Clinton. But a study of Daniel 7:11-12 is needed to establish that.
              Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
              What about European Christian leaders?
              Daniel 7 focused on the sea-beasts: Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome. When the interpretation 7:17 moved from Rome to the 4 kings that arise from the earth; the prophecy moved from Europe (around Rome) to the USA.

              Here is what happened: In Revelation 13 the first sea-beast is religio-Roman. The second best is from the earth. Sea and earth are different. An identifying features of the second beast is that he calls fire down from heaven. President Truman did that upon Japan in WWII.

              Since the second beast (R 13:11-18) is identified by its ability to call fire down from the sky, let's say that that preliminary evidence proves it to be the US. Based on that unscientific "hunch" go back to the prophecy in Daniel 7.

              After the papacy (the prophecy took us all the way to Rome) held sway for a time, times, and half a time (1260 years) from 538 AD to 1798, the French took the pope prisoner in 1798. Thus, the prophecy that brought us from Babylon, to Medo-Persia, to Greece, and to Rome reaches a place where the prophecy is to transition to the 4 earth kings.

              In 1798 France took Pope Pius VI captive and in 1805, France sold the Louisiana Purchase/Territory (sparsely populated PROPHETIC EARTH) to the united States. It doubled the size of the USA and President Truman, the man who called fire down from the sky came from Missouri (right in the heart of the prophetic earth/Louisiana Territory). [that is the summarized version, I am going to give a more detailed Bible study on this in another Prophecy thread, prophecy: who's fooling who].

              NOTE the harmony between Daniel 7 and Revelation 13. They both start with sea-beasts and transition to earth beasts. In Revelation 13:1-10 the sea-beast is the post 1929 to 2013 papacy (a prophetic hour of 83 years 4 months based on 1/12 of a 1000-year day is allotted to it). The 7 heads on this sea-beast are the popes that had their kingdom (that had been taken away in 1798) restored to them in 1929; Pius XI & XII, John XXIII, Paul VI, John-Paul I & II, & Benedict XVI. The ten horns that bonded with these popes during this hour are earth-kings/American: Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush I, & Clinton. During the reign of pope Benedict XVI Rev. 13 transitioned to Bush II...That is a fascinating prophecy that I will also cover in Who's fooling Who.

              Bottom line America is now the focus of Daniel 7 and Revelation 13. The last 4 kings/Presidents identified in these prophecies are Bush II, Obama, Trump, and Pence.

              Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
              What if Mike Pence doesn't make president?
              At one time I could only follow the prophecies to Bush II. Then came Obama. Then I prayerfully studied until I found him. Then came Trump. Then I had to go back to more prayer and Bible Study. Trump was there along with the little time of trouble that is to be followed by the Time of Jacob's Trouble (that many Christians think that they will be raptured away from) and Michael Pence will be there standing for his people.

              If I am wrong, I may have to look for a receipt for crow.
              God's people will have some things to unlearn and some things to learn again to get ready to meet Jesus.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

                Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
                I'm inclined to agree that the answer is not in long gone barbarian tribes who lived BEFORE the rise of the AC. The context is clear that the three fallen kings are linked to the AC.

                Here is Jerome's (347-420 AD) account:

                Savage tribes in countless numbers have overrun all parts of Gaul. The whole country between the Alps and the Pyrenees, between the Rhine and the Ocean, has been laid waste by hordes of Suevi, Vandals, Sarmatians, Alans, Gepids, Herules, Saxons, Burgundians, Alemanni.

                We should therefore concur with the traditional interpretation of all the commentators of the Christian Church, that at the end of the world, when the Roman Empire is to be destroyed, there shall be ten kings who will partition the Roman world amongst themselves. Then an insignificant eleventh king will arise, who will overcome three of the ten kings... after they have been slain, the seven other kings also will bow their necks to the victor.

                Within a few centuries of Jerome 3 former provinces of the original Roman Empire fell to an upstart Islamic Caliphate, and 7 remained intact.



                Of course Jerome and "all the commentators of the Christian Church" were expecting Antichrist and the end of the world to follow straight afterwards. And, indeed, Islam WAS antichrist. But here is where we need to understand the way prophecy fulfills. There are numerous examples where prophecy fulfills in part, then fulfills later in completeness. So I believe, as some here do, that a European confederation may lend its support to the last manifestation of Antichrist. (Revelation 17:12)

                However, the '3 fallen horns' of Daniel are past as I have shown. And the leader of a resurgent caliphate will be (IMO) the Antichrist. So, the original historical fulfillment provides us with the information for modern end-timers (us) to use to construct a likely end time scenario.
                "Your name and renown
                is the desire of our hearts."
                (Isaiah 26:8)

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

                  Though this thread fascinates me and I appreciate the privilege of contributing, I have pretty much presented a glimpse of where my studies have led me.
                  I cannot help to notice that my presentation is not traditional.
                  And some posts that are definitely traditional are going to have difficulty reconciling what I posted with what they have been taught.
                  My goal is not to rock people's boats.
                  But what I have written is cutting edge: Some of it has not happened yet.
                  And some that has happened is in a setting that must be totally overwhelming.
                  And I know that some things may not happen exactly as I expect that they will...
                  though I have every expectation that these events will happen (soon and very soon)

                  I know that I had predicted from Sept 2011 to Sept 2012 that Benedict would not be pope after Spring of 2013 and it happened.
                  I have been predicting on twitter the #IranUSwar for 11 years: Iran will attack US fleet in Persian Gulf...PENDING
                  And for almost 2 years that President Trump will be replaced by President Pence...PRNDING

                  All that was based on my studying of Bible prophecy
                  And I have had some near misses,
                  that I had to go back to the prophecies when they were fulfilled and to learn what I had not understood before the fact and my knowledge increased.

                  But I am not a prophet. I am a Bible student.
                  And I am not wanting to put others down who do not see things as I do.

                  With such a contrast between what I understand in our immediate future and what most of you have been taught
                  I think It best for me to read your thought and focus on other threads.

                  Everybody cannot be right.
                  And some people hold their opinions near and dear (they would rather fight than switch)
                  I am not into parleying for the sake of wasting time (I do not have much of that left)

                  I may post on this thread occasionally but I will keep reading it to keep up on your thoughts.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

                    Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
                    A couple of posts are impressing on me to consider the Lion, Bear and Leopard as the fallen kings.
                    Yes, that was an interesting approach, and I considered it. However, the translations say that the 3 kings are from among the 10 kings. And this would seem to exclude this perspective?

                    I do see it as possible that 3 kings within the European Community may resist centralization, such as the people of the UK are resisting it now. It appears to be futile to pursue independence from the E.U.? And it's not that I was ever opposed to European unity--I just think that unity apart from Christianity can be very dangerous. Right?

                    So I continue to view the 3 kings, who are put down by Antichrist, as 3 strong members of the current European Union. Who they are I couldn't say. Whether I'm right I can't say. At this point we're all kind of shooting in the dark.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

                      Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
                      5. And it does make sense the 4th beast would subdue those before him and not part of himself.
                      Except the ones he subdues is a part of the 4th kingdom and are not parts of the previous 3 kingdoms nor can they be those same three past kingdoms. Those kingdoms fell before the 4th beast rose to power so the past three weren't subdued by the 4th beast.


                      Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
                      Dan 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.


                      Obviously the 3 plucked horns are 3 out of the 10 that this 4th beast had. They therefore cannot be the 3 beasts that existed before the 4th beast and it's 10 horns rose to power.

                      And of course when we come to the book of Rev none of the ten horns are plucked up so this doesn't even happen.
                      James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

                        Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                        Except the ones he subdues is a part of the 4th kingdom and are not parts of the previous 3 kingdoms nor can they be those same three past kingdoms. Those kingdoms fell before the 4th beast rose to power so the past three weren't subdued by the 4th beast.


                        Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
                        Dan 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.


                        Obviously the 3 plucked horns are 3 out of the 10 that this 4th beast had. They therefore cannot be the 3 beasts that existed before the 4th beast and it's 10 horns rose to power.

                        And of course when we come to the book of Rev none of the ten horns are plucked up so this doesn't even happen.
                        You may or may not be right. I notice that in the book of Revelation there are 7 heads and 10 heads (Rev 12.3; 13.1). The fact there are only 7 heads, or kings, may indicate that 3 kings out of 10 may have been "plucked up?" This might be so if the "heads" are actual kings, and the "horns" are actual kingdoms. But I don't know...

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

                          Originally posted by randyk View Post
                          You may or may not be right. I notice that in the book of Revelation there are 7 heads and 10 heads (Rev 12.3; 13.1).
                          No, there are only 7 heads mentioned in the book which are said to be mountains. There are ten horns which are kings with kingdoms for one hour with the beast.

                          The fact there are only 7 heads, or kings, may indicate that 3 kings out of 10 may have been "plucked up?"
                          Again, you are confusing the 7 heads/mountains with a different metaphor about horns being kings/kingdoms. None of the ten horns are ever plucked up in the book of Rev. All ten remain for the entire duration the beast exists.

                          This might be so if the "heads" are actual kings, and the "horns" are actual kingdoms. But I don't know...

                          Daniel: antichrist and 10 kings turns into antichrist and 7 kings.
                          Rev: antichrist and 10 kings the entire time of the great tribulation.

                          Originally posted by randyk View Post
                          You may or may not be right. I notice that in the book of Revelation there are 7 heads and 10 heads (Rev 12.3; 13.1).
                          No, there are only 7 heads mentioned in the book which are said to be mountains. There are ten horns which are kings with kingdoms for one hour with the beast.

                          The fact there are only 7 heads, or kings, may indicate that 3 kings out of 10 may have been "plucked up?"
                          Again, you are confusing the 7 heads/mountains with a different metaphor about horns being kings/kingdoms. None of the ten horns are ever plucked up in the book of Rev. All ten remain for the entire duration the beast exists.

                          This might be so if the "heads" are actual kings, and the "horns" are actual kingdoms. But I don't know...

                          Daniel: antichrist and 10 kings turns into antichrist and 7 kings.
                          Rev: antichrist and 10 kings the entire time of the great tribulation.
                          James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

                            Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                            Except the ones he subdues is a part of the 4th kingdom and are not parts of the previous 3 kingdoms nor can they be those same three past kingdoms.
                            The Lion, Bear, Leopard are not past thus they will be subdued in the future. That is why I started the thread on the four kingdoms of dan 2 are NOT the same four in Dan 7.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

                              Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
                              I get why you claim that, but Dan 7:8 does NOT allow for your view:
                              Dan 7:8* I considered the horns, and behold, there came up among them another horn, a little one, before which three of the first horns were plucked up by the roots. And behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things.*

                              It clearly states "three of the FIRST horns" that is three of the 10 horns that came up BEFORE the 11th horn did.

                              Now your quote from Revelation shows that AT the time of the 11th horn (king) who will be the AC or beast, ALL 10 of those horns WILL BE in power and ruling.
                              They ALL give their power to the 11th. It is AFTER they do this that then the 11th uproots three of them.

                              The three subdued are NOT the Lion, Bear and Leopard. The Leopard had four heads, and four wings and is the four horned goat of Greece.
                              Thanks, FHG: I was drifting and undecided after reading Revelation Man in post #13 and thought he and Ross were right. But then I read the passage again and realised they couldn't be and raised my queries in post #30.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

                                Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
                                Nope from Dan 7:17 we KNOW that the fourth beast is NOT Rome:
                                Dan 7:17* ‘These four great beasts are four kings who shall arise out of the earth.*

                                Most who list these four have:
                                Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome.

                                However as Babylon already was a king, and at the time when Daniel had this vision, the last king of Babylon was already reigning, so NO further kings of Babylon, we need to remove Babylon from the list.

                                This then means we have Persia, Greece and Rome, followed by one further kingdom.
                                A beast which has teeth and feet, AND 10 horns and a little horn.

                                IF we agree the little horn is the AC, and the 10 horns match the 10 horns of Rev 17:12, then this means the fourth beast has two periods, that of the teeth and feet, followed by that of the horns.
                                If we also agree that the 10 horns match the 10 Toes of Dan 2, THEN we can connect the 4th beast of a composite, which matches the Feet of Dan 2 kingdom.

                                This makes it clear that the 3 horns are part of the Gryphon, Bear and Leopard BECAUSE the beast itself is comprised of those as noted in Rev 17. Yet the 3 are NOT those actual kingdoms for they have gone (with the leopard having 4 heads (and as we read in Dan 8, 4 horns).
                                Just one when I congratulated myself for having figured it out, you came and threw a spanner into the works! I respect your comments for I know you're not one to say the first thing that comes into your head. But by and by, it proves that Dan 7:24 is not as simple as many have believed. I suppose it calls for further study with prayers for discernment as well.

                                Comment

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