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The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

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  • Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

    Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
    Really?

    Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
    Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first [the AC] beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly was healed.


    1. The horn of a lamb is naturally small and as *horn* signifies strength and power in prophecy, this plainly indicates that the FP is subordinate to the first Beast, the Antichrist.
    2. Notice in v-13 that he exercises the power of the first beast? Meaning that he draws spiritual power from the AC who in turn is empowered by Satan.

    How can you read this and deny that he's a puppet of the AC?
    Trivalee, the first beast is not AC. The second beast is, like EQW1938 said. He just needs to see beast #1 is Rome and beast #2 is the Papacy. Vicar of Christ, in place (representative) of Christ.
    John 15:17 "These things I command you, that ye love one another."

    Comment


    • Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

      Originally posted by Deade View Post
      Trivalee, the first beast is not AC. The second beast is, like EQW1938 said. He just needs to see beast #1 is Rome and beast #2 is the Papacy. Vicar of Christ, in place (representative) of Christ.
      Rome etc was a shadow of the beast and AC but not the final fulfillment John saw. That one will be something new.

      Originally posted by Deade View Post
      Trivalee, the first beast is not AC. The second beast is, like EQW1938 said. He just needs to see beast #1 is Rome and beast #2 is the Papacy. Vicar of Christ, in place (representative) of Christ.
      Rome etc was a shadow of the beast and AC but not the final fulfillment John saw. That one will be something new.
      James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

      Comment


      • Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

        Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
        Rome etc was a shadow of the beast and AC but not the final fulfillment John saw. That one will be something new.
        Not likely. The 6th Head of the Beast "is" in John's time (Rev 17.10). That is hardly a "shadow."

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        • Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

          Originally posted by randyk View Post
          Not likely. The 6th Head of the Beast "is" in John's time (Rev 17.10). That is hardly a "shadow."
          I don't think you know what a prophetic shadow is by that statement.

          The 6th one is a king with a kingdom not a "head" of any beast let alone one of the heads of the Rev 13:1 beast. Also, all 6 kings/kingdoms are shadows of the last one. The fact that the 6th was in John's time proves it's a shadow of something to come because it literally says "the other is not yet come" about the 7th. Shadows of things always happen first.

          Originally posted by randyk View Post
          Not likely. The 6th Head of the Beast "is" in John's time (Rev 17.10). That is hardly a "shadow."
          I don't think you know what a prophetic shadow is by that statement.

          The 6th one is a king with a kingdom not a "head" of any beast let alone one of the heads of the Rev 13:1 beast. Also, all 6 kings/kingdoms are shadows of the last one. The fact that the 6th was in John's time proves it's a shadow of something to come because it literally says "the other is not yet come" about the 7th. Shadows of things always happen first.
          James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

          Comment


          • Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

            Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
            I don't think you know what a prophetic shadow is by that statement.
            The Beast's 6th Head was a real part of the Beast progression in history. This 6th Head was therefore *not a shadow" of something yet to come. It was actually part of the Beast's evolution in history.

            Originally posted by ewq
            The 6th one is a king with a kingdom not a "head" of any beast let alone one of the heads of the Rev 13:1 beast. Also, all 6 kings/kingdoms are shadows of the last one. The fact that the 6th was in John's time proves it's a shadow of something to come because it literally says "the other is not yet come" about the 7th. Shadows of things always happen first.
            Rev 17.I will explain to you the mystery of the woman and of the beast she rides, which has the seven heads and ten horns.…. 9 “This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is...

            I think it's very clear that the Beast has 7 heads, and that the 6th head--a king--existed in the time of the Apostle John.

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            • Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

              Originally posted by randyk View Post
              The Beast's 6th Head was a real part of the Beast progression in history. This 6th Head was therefore *not a shadow" of something yet to come. It was actually part of the Beast's evolution in history.
              Prophetic shadows are real. That term dos not imply it wasn't real or historic. Many antichrists are shadows of the last Antichrist but no implication the earlier Antichrist's weren't real, they just weren't the final fulfillment of the AC.


              Rev 17.I will explain to you the mystery of the woman and of the beast she rides, which has the seven heads and ten horns.…. 9 “This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is...

              I think it's very clear that the Beast has 7 heads, and that the 6th head--a king--existed in the time of the Apostle John.
              Faulty manuscript and translation. The 7 heads/mountains are completely different than the 7 consecutive kings/kingdoms which are earlier types of beast empires that precede the final fulfillment, Rev 13:1's beast empire. Here we have 7, Daniel speaks of the same ones except only addresses the last 4. These kings and kingdoms/beast empires are not the 7 heads/mountains on the Rev 13:1 beast empire. That faulty manuscript causes so much confusion. Stick to the KJV because it has it correct:

              Correct:
              Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
              Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

              The seven heads are NOT the seven kings.

              False:

              Rev 17:9 This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated;
              Rev 17:10 they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while.

              The seven heads are the seven kings which is false and impossible if one understands that Rev teachesnone of the seven heads fall, let alone 6 out of 7.
              James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

              Comment


              • Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

                Originally posted by Deade View Post
                Trivalee, the first beast is not AC. The second beast is, like EQW1938 said. He just needs to see beast #1 is Rome and beast #2 is the Papacy. Vicar of Christ, in place (representative) of Christ.
                Actually the dragon is Satan, first beast IS the AC, the second beast IS the FP. This is clearly what is stated and we see all 3 in Rev 16:13 with all 3 involved as an unholy trinity.
                As to who the AC is and who the FP is, the AC is NOT Rome, that is but the 6th head of the beast - but the AC is actually the 8th king AFTER the 7 heads. So there is a kingdom AFTER Rome which is the 7th head, and then AFTER that kingdom there are the 10 horns, and then they give their power to the 11th, who is also the 8th (of the 7). IOW the 10 horns are NOT directly any of the preceding 7 heads, but rather BECOME the base of the AC's power.

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                • Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

                  Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                  Prophetic shadows are real. That term dos not imply it wasn't real or historic. Many antichrists are shadows of the last Antichrist but no implication the earlier Antichrist's weren't real, they just weren't the final fulfillment of the AC.
                  The OT temple was a "shadow" of God's heavenly temple, and yes, it was real. I'm not making the argument that such a shadow is not real!

                  Nor am I arguing that ancient Rome was the Antichrist. Rome was a part of the historical evolution of the Beast, because Rome was part of the actual structure of the Beast. This is why I would not call ancient Rome a "shadow." It was part of the reality of what will become the Antichristian Empire.

                  Originally posted by ewq
                  Faulty manuscript and translation. The 7 heads/mountains are completely different than the 7 consecutive kings/kingdoms which are earlier types of beast empires that precede the final fulfillment, Rev 13:1's beast empire. Here we have 7, Daniel speaks of the same ones except only addresses the last 4. These kings and kingdoms/beast empires are not the 7 heads/mountains on the Rev 13:1 beast empire. That faulty manuscript causes so much confusion. Stick to the KJV because it has it correct:

                  Correct:
                  Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
                  Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

                  The seven heads are NOT the seven kings.

                  False:

                  Rev 17:9 This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated;
                  Rev 17:10 they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while.

                  The seven heads are the seven kings which is false and impossible if one understands that Rev teachesnone of the seven heads fall, let alone 6 out of 7.
                  I'm not convinced that's true, although I'll try to look into it. I've long viewed the 7 heads of the Beast as viewed in 2 distinct ways. Both are cryptic puzzles to be understood as then-current Rome, which will, in the endtimes, produce the Antichristian Empire.

                  One application was to 7 consecutive kingdoms in history, one of which was Rome in John's time. Understanding the sequence of pagan powers, in opposition to Israel, it would've been easy to identify Rome as one of the hostile power John was referring to.

                  The other application was to 7 mountains. Again, since Rome in John's day was associated with 7 mountains, this would've been an easy puzzle to solve for John's readers.

                  But the endtime application of the 7 heads seems to be 7 actual kings that rule over 10 nations in the Antichristian Empire. The applications John makes helps his readers to understand that he is applying this to the Rome of his day, which in the endtimes will become the Empire of Antichrist.

                  Comment


                  • Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

                    Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                    Like how the little horn in Daniel is subordinate to the other horns because he's "little"? No, it means he is in full control of the first beast and has all of it's power.
                    If you say so.

                    "And he exerciseth all the power of the first "

                    The FP excerciseth all the power of the first beast. The FP is the leader in full control. He isn't a puppet, he is the puppet master. Yes he wants people to worship the first beast which is the empire he rules over. It's no different than Hitler wanting people to worship the Nazi empire...it reflects worship directly to himself as well since Hitler created the whole thing. Same with Rome and Caesar or any leader and his empire.

                    The first beast is 10 kingdoms within 7 mountains.

                    The second beast is a man, an individual that has full power of the first beast and orders worship, an image made, gives life to that image, performs miracles, and forces all to take a mark....he is clearly the only one in Rev that can fulfill the role of Antichrist since there isn't anyone else singled out.
                    You are clearly out of your depth here and given that you're incorrigible, I'll save my energy.

                    Comment


                    • Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

                      Originally posted by Deade View Post
                      Trivalee, the first beast is not AC. The second beast is, like EQW1938 said. He just needs to see beast #1 is Rome and beast #2 is the Papacy. Vicar of Christ, in place (representative) of Christ.
                      Forgive me, but I'm a wit slow in catching your drift. There are only TWO Beasts in Rev 13. Verse 1 introduced the first whom we all agree is the AC. And the 2nd is introduced in v-11: "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. So I'm not sure how the 1st Beast is anything but the AC?

                      Comment


                      • Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

                        Originally posted by randyk View Post

                        But the endtime application of the 7 heads seems to be 7 actual kings that rule over 10 nations in the Antichristian Empire.
                        The final beast empire has 10 kings not 7. And no, 3 of those 10 kings are not subdued anywhere in the book of Rev. All ten are un-subdued the entire length of the GT. Additionally, that same final empire beast has 7 mountains and none of the mountains/heads fall anywhere in the book of Rev. Again, any translation that has "they are also seven kings" is based on corrupted manuscripts. The 7 heads are not these consecutive falling historic kingdoms.
                        James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                        Comment


                        • Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

                          Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
                          If you say so.



                          You are clearly out of your depth here and given that you're incorrigible, I'll save my energy.
                          Translation: You are right but I am not ready to admit it so I'll post a dumb smiley and call you incorrigible and hope this goes away.
                          James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                          Comment


                          • Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

                            Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
                            Forgive me, but I'm a wit slow in catching your drift. There are only TWO Beasts in Rev 13. Verse 1 introduced the first whom we all agree is the AC. And the 2nd is introduced in v-11: "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. So I'm not sure how the 1st Beast is anything but the AC?
                            Probably has something to do with the first beast not being a person since the first beast is an empire of ten smaller kingdoms united under one greater empire. The leader of that great empire is the false prophet.
                            James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                            Comment


                            • Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

                              Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
                              Forgive me, but I'm a wit slow in catching your drift. There are only TWO Beasts in Rev 13. Verse 1 introduced the first whom we all agree is the AC. And the 2nd is introduced in v-11: "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. So I'm not sure how the 1st Beast is anything but the AC?
                              Here, I will spell it out for you:

                              The Second Beast

                              Rev. 13:11-18 "And I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like unto a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. And he exerciseth all the authority of the first beast in his sight. And he maketh the earth and them that dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose death-stroke was healed.

                              And he [Beast 2] doeth great signs, that he should even make fire to come down out of heaven upon the earth in the sight of men. And he [Beast 2] deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by reason of the signs which it was given him to do in the sight of the [Beast 1] beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast [Beast 1], who hath the stroke of the sword, and lived.

                              And it was given unto him [Beast 2] to give breath to it, even to the image of the beast [Beast 1], that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as should not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

                              And he [Beast 2] causeth all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the bond, that there be given them a mark on their right hand, or upon their forehead; and that no man should be able to buy or to sell, save he that hath the mark, even the name of the beast [Beast 2] or the number of his name.

                              Here is wisdom. He that hath understanding, let him count the number of the beast [Beast 2]; for it is the number of a man: and his number is Six hundred and sixty and six."


                              So, you see the last two references could well be the name and number of Antichrist assigned to Beast 2.
                              John 15:17 "These things I command you, that ye love one another."

                              Comment


                              • Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

                                Originally posted by Deade View Post
                                Here, I will spell it out for you:

                                The Second Beast

                                Rev. 13:11-18 "And I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like unto a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. And he exerciseth all the authority of the first beast in his sight. And he maketh the earth and them that dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose death-stroke was healed.

                                And he [Beast 2] doeth great signs, that he should even make fire to come down out of heaven upon the earth in the sight of men. And he [Beast 2] deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by reason of the signs which it was given him to do in the sight of the [Beast 1] beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast [Beast 1], who hath the stroke of the sword, and lived.

                                And it was given unto him [Beast 2] to give breath to it, even to the image of the beast [Beast 1], that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as should not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

                                And he [Beast 2] causeth all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the bond, that there be given them a mark on their right hand, or upon their forehead; and that no man should be able to buy or to sell, save he that hath the mark, even the name of the beast [Beast 2] or the number of his name.

                                Here is wisdom. He that hath understanding, let him count the number of the beast [Beast 2]; for it is the number of a man: and his number is Six hundred and sixty and six."


                                So, you see the last two references could well be the name and number of Antichrist assigned to Beast 2.
                                Yeah the beasts are correctly identified in this post.

                                Isn't it strange people will read Daniel 7 and know the beast with ten horns is the beast empire, and that the Antichrist is the singular person that comes next which is the little horn yet when they read of the same ten horned beast in Rev 13, and the singular person that comes next, which is the false prophet, that they don't get right which one is the antichrist?

                                I posted this simple thing several times but they never understand it:

                                Daniel - ten horned beast arises, little horn comes next and is the person of authority and power over the ten horned beast. Little horn is the antichrist.

                                Revelation - ten horned beast arises, false prophet comes next and is the person of authority and power over the ten horned beast. False prophet is the antichrist.

                                It couldn't be simpler.
                                James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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