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The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

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  • ewq1938
    replied
    Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

    Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
    If you believe it's not necessary to cite the Book, Chapter and verse when you quote scripture, then I'll be inclined to ignore the post, period.
    You are the one who supplied the Book, Chapter and verse, that's why it was unnecessary for me to do it. You should read your own posts more.

    Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
    If you believe it's not necessary to cite the Book, Chapter and verse when you quote scripture, then I'll be inclined to ignore the post, period.
    You are the one who supplied the Book, Chapter and verse, that's why it was unnecessary for me to do it. You should read your own posts more.

    Leave a comment:


  • Trivalee
    replied
    Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

    Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
    It was not necessary to do that.
    If you believe it's not necessary to cite the Book, Chapter and verse when you quote scripture, then I'll be inclined to ignore the post, period.

    Leave a comment:


  • ewq1938
    replied
    Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

    Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
    Have you have not learned to provide Book, Chapter and verse when you quote scripture?
    It was not necessary to do that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Trivalee
    replied
    Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

    Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
    See if reading it through Daniels lens helps any:


    And the 4th beast was taken and with him the little horn that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
    Have you have not learned to provide Book, Chapter and verse when you quote scripture?

    Leave a comment:


  • Trivalee
    replied
    Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

    Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
    No, 1. Satan/dragon 2. Beast/empire 3. False Prophet/antichrist.

    It's exactly the same in Daniel:
    Daniel - ten horned beast arises, little horn comes next and is the person of authority and power over the ten horned beast. Little horn is the antichrist.
    Revelation - ten horned beast arises, false prophet comes next and is the person of authority and power over the ten horned beast. False prophet is the antichrist.
    When scripture is explicit, I see no reason for controversy.

    Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken AND with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

    The above clearly shows that the AC and FP are different individuals. So you have to prove that Rev 19:20 is wrong or that it's not saying what it says.


    Because the empire is representative of him and his power. To worship the AC's/FP's empire is to worship the AC/FP.

    Who performs miracles? Who makes people create an image? Who gives life to the image? Who gives the prophecies? Who exercises all the power of the first beast? Who has the little horns of a lamb? Who can make fire come down from heaven?
    See the answer above.

    Leave a comment:


  • ewq1938
    replied
    Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

    Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
    Hopefully, the passage will convince and ewq1938 that the AC is different from the FP?

    Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
    See if reading it through Daniels lens helps any:


    And the 4th beast was taken and with him the little horn that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

    Leave a comment:


  • ewq1938
    replied
    Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

    Originally posted by Trivalee View Post

    2. The FP is the 3rd in the evil trinity: 1. Satan/dragon 2. Antichrist/Beast 3. False Prophet.
    No, 1. Satan/dragon 2. Beast/empire 3. False Prophet/antichrist.

    It's exactly the same in Daniel:

    Daniel - ten horned beast arises, little horn comes next and is the person of authority and power over the ten horned beast. Little horn is the antichrist.

    Revelation - ten horned beast arises, false prophet comes next and is the person of authority and power over the ten horned beast. False prophet is the antichrist.



    Rev 13:12 says that the FP causes the people of the earth to worship the first beast (AC). If he is superior to the AC or if they are the same individual as you maintain, why would he ask people to worship the Beast/AC instead of him?
    Because the empire is representative of him and his power. To worship the AC's/FP's empire is to worship the AC/FP.

    Who performs miracles? Who makes people create an image? Who gives life to the image? Who gives the prophecies? Who exercises all the power of the first beast? Who has the little horns of a lamb? Who can make fire come down from heaven?

    Originally posted by Trivalee View Post

    2. The FP is the 3rd in the evil trinity: 1. Satan/dragon 2. Antichrist/Beast 3. False Prophet.
    No, 1. Satan/dragon 2. Beast/empire 3. False Prophet/antichrist.

    It's exactly the same in Daniel:

    Daniel - ten horned beast arises, little horn comes next and is the person of authority and power over the ten horned beast. Little horn is the antichrist.

    Revelation - ten horned beast arises, false prophet comes next and is the person of authority and power over the ten horned beast. False prophet is the antichrist.



    Rev 13:12 says that the FP causes the people of the earth to worship the first beast (AC). If he is superior to the AC or if they are the same individual as you maintain, why would he ask people to worship the Beast/AC instead of him?
    Because the empire is representative of him and his power. To worship the AC's/FP's empire is to worship the AC/FP.

    Who performs miracles? Who makes people create an image? Who gives life to the image? Who gives the prophecies? Who exercises all the power of the first beast? Who has the little horns of a lamb? Who can make fire come down from heaven?

    Leave a comment:


  • Trivalee
    replied
    Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

    Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
    Are not the AC and FP the same individual?
    Hopefully, the passage will convince and ewq1938 that the AC is different from the FP?

    Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

    Leave a comment:


  • Trivalee
    replied
    Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

    Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
    No Daniel prophecies have not changed you are correct, however EWQ is correct that the three subdued cannot be 3 of the 10. Now it will not be until both of you see the three being the lion, bear, leopard which are subdued will you both understand.
    The word of God cannot change. What Daniel prophecied regarding the end-times is reiterated and corroborated in Rev 17:12-13.

    Leave a comment:


  • Trivalee
    replied
    Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

    Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
    7 mountains and 10 kingdoms is not a man. The FP is the only singular man Rev speaks of so he is the AC.
    1. The AC is a man. The 7 mountains are symbolic. He will divide his kingdom (the world) into 10 regions and appoint overseers or "kings" charge over them.

    Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
    Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.


    2. The FP is the 3rd in the evil trinity: 1. Satan/dragon 2. Antichrist/Beast 3. False Prophet.

    Rev 13:12 says that the FP causes the people of the earth to worship the first beast (AC). If he is superior to the AC or if they are the same individual as you maintain, why would he ask people to worship the Beast/AC instead of him?

    Leave a comment:


  • Trivalee
    replied
    Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

    Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
    Are not the AC and FP the same individual?
    No Sir.
    They are different individuals. The False Prophet is subordinate to the AC. In Rev 13:11-18 we see that the FP works to promote the interests of the first Beast/AC. He sets up an image for the AC and forces the world to worship the image. But don't just take my words for it, here's the passage that nails it that he derives his power from the AC - just as the AC too, is empowered by Satan.

    Rev 13:12 It exercises all the authority of the first beast in its presence,[c] and makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose mortal wound was healed.

    Notice that he forces the world to worship (not himself, but the AC.) the first Beast. Who is the first Beast? The AC, see Rev 13:1-8.

    Leave a comment:


  • randyk
    replied
    Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

    Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
    The problem is your not being open to the truth. How do I know? I once believed all in Rome theory too and was delusional note not to the extent of the 70AD stuff though. It's a revived Roman Empire, Popes ectů.. That is until I truly wiped away the bias and studied from scratch and not what I was taught JVP and his cohorts. So I know it to be true caused I changed and was able to see. So I know if did it you can too however you have yet to put away bias and been honest to yourself. You twist scriptures to align to a theory, period. There is not ONE scripture which points to Rome anywhere in scripture.

    "A delusion is a firm and fixed belief based on inadequate grounds not amenable to rational argument or evidence to contrary,"
    I know what a "delusion" is, brother. What you're saying about it, in context, is that I'm under a *satanic* delusion. We're Christians, and deluded Christians are being lied to by the Devil, right?

    Just because you view yourself as once deluded doesn't mean I'm deluded! That may be the case in a cult, where one who is a Mormon is deluded, and all who follow Mormonism are deluded.

    But that isn't the case with Christians who look at a number of theories. It becomes a satanic bondage only when one affirms a particular view so strong that he separates himself from God's revelation, and begins to assert carnal things.

    In this sense, you should recognize that "God's revelation" does not necessarily require exact conformity to a doctrinal truth, but rather, a right attitude, or a right spirit. But in attacking me as not conformed with biblical doctrine, you suggest that I'm acting in a deceived manner.

    I'm not doing that, brother. I believe Rome is the 4th Kingdom because others, before me, have advised that this is a reasonable theory, and I agree with the arguments. It has nothing whatsoever to do with a deception. And it has nothing to do with an "attitude," or with a "wrong spirit" in me.

    If anything, you are the one who is under satanic bondage, because you think other Christians are in satanic bondage if they don't agree with you. This is purely carnal. It isn't kind, and it isn't temperate, and it isn't patient. It's judgmental.

    If you want to be on a Christian forum, discussing different positions, you don't do it by calling all who disagree with your position "delusional!" Sorry, I can't disagree with you more--on both counts, either that Rome is not a reasonable hypothesis or that I am "delusional."

    Leave a comment:


  • ross3421
    replied
    Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

    Originally posted by randyk View Post
    And in this case it isn't. I'm completely open to the truth of the matter.
    The problem is your not being open to the truth. How do I know? I once believed all in Rome theory too and was delusional note not to the extent of the 70AD stuff though. It's a revived Roman Empire, Popes ect….. That is until I truly wiped away the bias and studied from scratch and not what I was taught JVP and his cohorts. So I know it to be true caused I changed and was able to see. So I know if did it you can too however you have yet to put away bias and been honest to yourself. You twist scriptures to align to a theory, period. There is not ONE scripture which points to Rome anywhere in scripture.

    "A delusion is a firm and fixed belief based on inadequate grounds not amenable to rational argument or evidence to contrary,"

    Leave a comment:


  • randyk
    replied
    Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

    Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
    Your incorrect premise leads you to a wrong conclusion. So until you do away with the Rome delusion your conclusion will error.
    "Delusion?" If I have a wrong theory, it is not necessarily a "delusion."

    And in this case it isn't. I'm completely open to the truth of the matter. I'm not deceived by some kind of satanic bondage!

    Why don't we just consider all viewpoints equal until we learn enough to be more sure? I don't call you "deceived," and you don't call me "deceived?"

    Leave a comment:


  • ross3421
    replied
    Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

    Originally posted by randyk View Post
    The 4th king, in my view, was the Roman Empire. And the Roman Empire did *not* defeat the 3 previous kingdoms of Babylon, Persia, and Greece.

    Your incorrect premise leads you to a wrong conclusion. So until you do away with the Rome delusion your conclusion will error.

    Leave a comment:

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