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  • Re: Question

    Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
    The simple fact is that in order to measure a temple using a rod REQUIRES it to be a physical temple ESPECIALLY when the counting of the worshippers IN it is done separately!
    Agreed. In Rev11:1, "the temple of God" and "them that worship THEREIN" are clearly distinct.

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    • Re: Question

      Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
      Of course it is a literal temple.
      When else in scripture is someone instructed to measure a temple?
      In those cases everyone would agree it is literal, so why not on this occasion?
      The SOLE reason to say it is NOT literal is because there is no temple at the moment. Problem with that view is that people said there would be no Israel either, but God has reestablished the nation, even as Ezekiel 37 shows. The dry bones now have risen, but they are still dry awaiting for the blowing of God's Spirit upon them.
      Israel as it is right now reflects Ezekiel 37:8
      So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I prophesied, there was a sound, and behold, a rattling,c and the bones came together, bone to its bone. 8And I looked, and behold, there were sinews on them, and flesh had come upon them, and skin had covered them. But there was no breath in them.

      The prophecy has two be prophesied twice. Once for the dry bones to come together again and form bodies, but then a second time for them to live.

      As for the Greek naos and heiron, there is argument over what each word means.
      Matthew used heiron in Matt 4:5 but naos in Matt 23:16, 17, 21 and 35 for the temple. Some think naos means the holy place inside the building. However the word naos or heiron by itself doesn't denote anything special.

      Yet what did John use? In John 2 the word naos is used for Jesus' body AND for the physical temple. Luke in Acts 7:48 has it specifically refer to temples built with hands.
      The argument for naos of heiron therefore is a misdirection.
      The simple fact is that in order to measure a temple using a rod REQUIRES it to be a physical temple ESPECIALLY when the counting of the worshippers IN it is done separately!
      If it is a literal temple, only the Preterist interpretation of Revelation makes sense in that case, except the Preterist interpretation of Revelation doesn't make sense, at least not to some of us anyway. Here it is almost 2020. No one knows when Christ will return, and here we are still without a literal temple in order to fulfill Rev 11. IOW Christ can return and probably will before another literal temple in Jerusalem pops up in the near future. These things connect with 2 Thess 2 for one. There is a temple mentioned in that ch as well that is not meaning a literal one either. Don't get me wrong though, for decades I used to believe all of this involved a literal temple in Jerusalem. Gradually I began to change my mind about that.

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      • Re: Question

        Originally posted by divaD View Post
        IOW Christ can return and probably will before another literal temple in Jerusalem pops up in the near future.
        Biblically speaking, the word "return" [in Scripture] applies ONLY to His Second Coming to the earth (i.e. Rev19), so a "temple" (in my view) will indeed exist on the earth prior to His "RETURN" [see Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." (i.e. as an already-wed Bridegroom, WITH His already-wed "Bride/Wife" not mentioned there )]; it does not apply to passages covering our Rapture (the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR; for distinct purposes). See Lk19:12,15,17,19 also, for the other "RETURN" word (and then consider all the parallels to these two passages). They are speaking of His "return" for the commencement of the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom (our Rapture not in reference in these contexts).

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        • Re: Question

          It is "the DOTL" [time period] that ARRIVES suddenly (with no signs preceding it), i.e. the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3]"... not Jesus' Own Person's arrival (to the earth; i.e. His "RETURN"), which is preceded by numerous signs, SEALS/TRUMPETS/VIALS, events, man of sin's doings, and so much more...

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          • Re: Question

            Originally posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
            Biblically speaking, the word "return" [in Scripture] applies ONLY to His Second Coming to the earth (i.e. Rev19), so a "temple" (in my view) will indeed exist on the earth prior to His "RETURN" [see Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." (i.e. as an already-wed Bridegroom, WITH His already-wed "Bride/Wife" not mentioned there )]; it does not apply to passages covering our Rapture (the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR; for distinct purposes). See Lk19:12,15,17,19 also, for the other "RETURN" word (and then consider all the parallels to these two passages). They are speaking of His "return" for the commencement of the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom (our Rapture not in reference in these contexts).
            Let's say Pretrib is true and that the rapture happens next week, for example. That would indicate there can't be more than 7 years at the most remaining until the actual 2nd coming. How could a literal temple pop up in that short amount of time in order to fulfill what the AC is literally supposed to do to it? In order to even agree with the 70th week, animal sacrificing would have to begin at the beginning of the week in order to be stopped by mid week. The whole idea is ludicrous.

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            • Re: Question

              Originally posted by divaD View Post
              Let's say Pretrib is true and that the rapture happens next week, for example. That would indicate there can't be more than 7 years at the most remaining until the actual 2nd coming. How could a literal temple pop up in that short amount of time in order to fulfill what the AC is literally supposed to do to it? In order to even agree with the 70th week, animal sacrificing would have to begin at the beginning of the week in order to be stopped by mid week. The whole idea is ludicrous.
              Right. And I've heard there's been plans in the works regarding that very thing (long time now), which some say would not take long at all to erect. And how do we know that "confirm the/a covenant with the many" (i.e. at the start of a 7-yr period) isn't speaking of that very thing. I've hear that the phrase in 9:27 is actually "with THE many" which in other places speaks specifically of Israel (only), and it could be that "confirm the/a covenant WITH..." has the "with" meaning "alongside, or together with" them, as opposed to being two separate sides of a covenant (meaning, confirming one already in existence, together)… something along those lines. IOW, "confirm the/a covenant" might not require a building in the initial moments (the thing that is later "ceased"... that part only requires a place for sacrificing, which could start asap, I suppose... the building of a structure could come along later in the first half, as I see it... I mean, I don't see anything prohibiting that viewpoint, IMO.

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              • Re: Question

                Originally posted by divaD View Post
                Let's say Pretrib is true and that the rapture happens next week, for example. That would indicate there can't be more than 7 years at the most remaining until the actual 2nd coming. How could a literal temple pop up in that short amount of time in order to fulfill what the AC is literally supposed to do to it? In order to even agree with the 70th week, animal sacrificing would have to begin at the beginning of the week in order to be stopped by mid week. The whole idea is ludicrous.
                Ive never heard before an argument that pre-trib cant happen for these reasons, first thing that comes to mind when I think about it is the fact that Israel never ceased their sacrifices when Solomon began to build the temple and although Im not sure how many years it took Solomon to build the temple, with todays fast paced construction abilities for example look at China and the super structures they build in under a year, the temple would be a miniscule project by comparison. even go back to the start of last century they built the empire state building using stone hammers and dinosaurs by comparison to today and it only took just over a year to build I guess I didnt think it would take long to whack a temple up I always presumed a few weeks... maybe a month or two?

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                • Re: Question

                  Originally posted by divaD View Post
                  Let's say Pretrib is true and that the rapture happens next week, for example. That would indicate there can't be more than 7 years at the most remaining until the actual 2nd coming. How could a literal temple pop up in that short amount of time in order to fulfill what the AC is literally supposed to do to it? In order to even agree with the 70th week, animal sacrificing would have to begin at the beginning of the week in order to be stopped by mid week. The whole idea is ludicrous.
                  Dave, I'm gonna toss this in as a

                  Remember when Jesus said about destroying the temple and that He'd raise it up in 3 days? We know this was spiritual in nature and it was about Himself rising as resurrected after three days. Well, satan does all he can to "imitate" God, correct?

                  All the plans, all the material, all the means is already in place for the reconstruction of the temple. Would not surprise me that when the temple rebuilding begins, it will be completed in only three days.
                  Slug1--out

                  ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

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