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Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

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  • #16
    Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

    Originally posted by Walls View Post
    In my posting #2 I documented TWO "bottomless pits". If our Lord has the keys to Hades (Rev.1:18), and a "star" from heaven has the key to the bottomless pit, which bottomless pit is meant? The one that contains angels no doubt. Is it strange then that they have wings (Rev.9:9)? The "star" must be Lucifer and the Warden of Tartaroo must be Abaddon. The Warden of Hades is Christ and all men are freed from Hades. Abaddon (the Destroyer) is Warden of Tartaroo. There is no salvation for the Angels of Tartaroo for 2 Peter 2:4 tells us;

    "For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to TARTAROO, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment"
    This was pointed out to me by FHG but I believe that it is this guy

    Exodus 12:23
    23 When the Lord goes through the land to strike down the Egyptians, he will see the blood on the top and sides of the doorframe and will pass over that doorway, and he will not permit the destroyer to enter your houses and strike you down.

    The one known as the angle of death is also called the destroyer in the verse above who may of turned against God after this and may of been one of the ones Peter talked about

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    • #17
      Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

      The difficulty many of us have with the Beast is caused, not by the Bible, but by age old doctrines that we have held when we should have left them. Salvation by faith was a grand recovery of the truth, but why did not the Reformers call EVERYTHING into question? The average Christian still holds TWO doctrines that make understanding the Beast, at best, very difficult. They are;
      1. He still thinks that when a man dies he either goes to heaven or hell
      2. If he does believe in the resurrection he thinks that it is only for Christians

      But the Bible teaches clearly, and unambiguously, that a man goes to HADES when he dies - including our Lord Jesus (Act.2:27, 31). And the Bible teaches clearly and unambiguously that ALL men will be resurrected (1st Cor.15:22; Rev.20:12-13).

      The only remaining obstacle to the Beast RISING out of Hades is the TIMING. 1st Corinthians 15:22-26, and other scriptures, give the sequence of resurrection as Christ first, then 2,000 years pass and the Church and Israel are resurrected "at His Coming" (1st Cor.15:23). Then, according to Revelation 20, another 1,000 years pass before the "rest of the dead" are raised. Since the Beast is a Gentile, and an Opposer of God and His Christ, he SHOULD only be resurrected at the end of the 1,000 years. But God allows this Roman king to be resurrected at and about the time the Church is resurrected. Why? To test men!

      For 2,000 years One Jesus, Son of Jehovah is presented to mankind. He is not recorded as having hurt a single person. He is recorded as having healed men and raised the dead. He is reported to have laid down His life as a Ransom for any man who would avail of this death. And yet He is hated, scorned, rejected, spit upon and His Name is used as a curse-word. So God allows a once fearsome king - Nero, who hated Christ and Christians above all others, to be resurrected EARLY. Of this Beast we read in the prophet Daniel in 7:25;

      "And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time."

      It is given solely to Christ, via the Spirit of God, to raise men (Jn.6 & 11:25). He too is sole possessor of the Keys to the Gates of Hades (Rev.1:18). So for Satan to have his emissary - Nero, from the grave, it must "be given into his hand" to change the time and Law of resurrection.
      1. The Beast coming out of the Bottomless Pit presents no problem if the pure word of God is adhered to
      2. The Beast being Nero presents no doctrinal obstacle unless one embraces the doctrines of Rome
      3. The Beast being resurrected out of "time" presents no doctrinal obstacle

      In actual fact we can see how clever the Almighty is in allowing this. The prophets of the Bible announce a Christ - a Messiah - a world renown politician who will bring the earth to order. He is predicted to, (i) be raised from the dead, (ii) carry His wounds, (iii) do miracles and (iv) occupy Jerusalem as His Citadel. The Imposter, the Beast, (i) is raised form the dead, (ii) carries his fatal wound, (iii) does lying wonders, and occupies the Temple of Jehovah in Jerusalem as his center of worship and political power. If men want a counterfeit, why, Jehovah gives them their imposter in style.

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      • #18
        Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

        Originally posted by marty fox View Post
        This was pointed out to me by FHG but I believe that it is this guy

        Exodus 12:23
        23 When the Lord goes through the land to strike down the Egyptians, he will see the blood on the top and sides of the doorframe and will pass over that doorway, and he will not permit the destroyer to enter your houses and strike you down.

        The one known as the angle of death is also called the destroyer in the verse above who may of turned against God after this and may of been one of the ones Peter talked about
        Quite possible .

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        • #19
          Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

          Originally posted by ross3421 View Post




          But there is a king over them which comes up out from the pit also as Rev 17 says he is a king.

          So who is this king and when was he put in the pit?

          Note this king was, was not, yet is. Thus the "yet is" is when he released from the pit, the "was not" was while he was in the pit, the "was" would be before the pit. So what evil entity was not in the pit the thrown into the pit and then released from the pit. Satan which you should agree as that would be the case even for Rev 20. The problem is is that it can't happen twice and this shows to be before the 2nd coming. Thus it can't happen again after a 1000 years later.

          As to things allegedly not happening twice though. What does satan do that gets him bound 1000 years? he deceives the nations. What does satan do after he is released from the pit. he deceives the nations. IOW he does some of the same things twice, yet obviously the same people aren't involved both times. The ones he was deceiving before he got locked up, these would all be long gone and dead when he once again deceives the nations once he is loosed from his binding. Things can clearly happen twice, the main difference being that it's not happening to the same people each time. Yet each time literally involves satan personally though.

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          • #20
            Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

            Originally posted by marty fox View Post
            This was pointed out to me by FHG but I believe that it is this guy

            Exodus 12:23
            23 When the Lord goes through the land to strike down the Egyptians, he will see the blood on the top and sides of the doorframe and will pass over that doorway, and he will not permit the destroyer to enter your houses and strike you down.

            The one known as the angle of death is also called the destroyer in the verse above who may of turned against God after this and may of been one of the ones Peter talked about
            Ive got a few commentaries who also point out the destroying angel is Satan, and in Exodus they point this out and that it was God who sent him, yet when they get to Revelation they then do a turn around and say we do not know who this king this destroyer in the pit is

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

              Originally posted by boangry View Post
              Ive got a few commentaries who also point out the destroying angel is Satan, and in Exodus they point this out and that it was God who sent him, yet when they get to Revelation they then do a turn around and say we do not know who this king this destroyer in the pit is

              Here's the way I tend to look at it, right or wrong.

              Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

              Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

              If satan is also this destroying angel in question, why didn't either of these verses tell us so? I don't see the text stating something like the following instead...And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, the destroying angel, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

              Nope, don't see that written in the text anywhere.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

                Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
                So who is this king and when was he put in the pit?

                Note this king was, was not, yet is. Thus the "yet is" is when he released from the pit, the "was not" was while he was in the pit, the "was" would be before the pit. So what evil entity was not in the pit the thrown into the pit and then released from the pit. Satan which you should agree as that would be the case even for Rev 20. The problem is is that it can't happen twice and this shows to be before the 2nd coming. Thus it can't happen again after a 1000 years later.
                How do we even know the king is in the pit though? It doesn't say he is, it doesn't say he isn't. All it says is this...And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

                For example. A jailer. This person isn't literally in the jail cells with them, yet this person is still in charge of those locked up behind bars.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

                  Originally posted by divaD View Post
                  Here's the way I tend to look at it, right or wrong.

                  Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

                  Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

                  If satan is also this destroying angel in question, why didn't either of these verses tell us so? I don't see the text stating something like the following instead...And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, the destroying angel, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

                  Nope, don't see that written in the text anywhere.
                  I don't understand how if Satan isn't titled the destroyer in every reference that it means it isn't him? In fact I think God makes us do a little bit of the work ourselves to work out who the destroyer must be.

                  We have been given two different titles in both the Greek and the Hebrew, Apollyon and Abaddon as the word for destroyer, so we have two references that confirm its the same person in both the Old Testament and New Testament.

                  The majority of commentators I read also go along the lines that the thief, who destroys is Satan John 10:10 "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full"

                  Other references seem to indicate to me, that Satan is the destroyer in more ways than one, for instance the devil is named here...

                  “Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;” (Heb 2:14)

                  I know I have to connect the dots to come to the conclusion that the destroyer is Satan, but the dots are pretty easy to connect, and Ive never seen them connect to anyone else?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

                    Originally posted by boangry View Post
                    I don't understand how if Satan isn't titled the destroyer in every reference that it means it isn't him? In fact I think God makes us do a little bit of the work ourselves to work out who the destroyer must be.

                    We have been given two different titles in both the Greek and the Hebrew, Apollyon and Abaddon as the word for destroyer, so we have two references that confirm its the same person in both the Old Testament and New Testament.

                    The majority of commentators I read also go along the lines that the thief, who destroys is Satan John 10:10 "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full"

                    Other references seem to indicate to me, that Satan is the destroyer in more ways than one, for instance the devil is named here...

                    “Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;” (Heb 2:14)

                    I know I have to connect the dots to come to the conclusion that the destroyer is Satan, but the dots are pretty easy to connect, and Ive never seen them connect to anyone else?
                    What I tend to think a lot of folks miss, is this. These coming out of the pit in Rev 9 aren't doing satan's bidding, they're doing God's bidding.

                    Revelation 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

                    If satan was behind this, do you honestly think he would be telling his armies to attack and torment his own people, but as to the saints though, spare them altogether? Since when did satan decide to start having mercy on the people he hates the most?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

                      Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
                      8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
                      9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
                      10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
                      11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

                      The beast from the bottomless pit lis described as a king, the 8th king. Not an empire.
                      The Beast is described as a lot of things, including something having 7 heads and 10 horns. So the beast is a confederation, as well as the king over that confederation--the Antichrist.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

                        Originally posted by divaD View Post
                        What I tend to think a lot of folks miss, is this. These coming out of the pit in Rev 9 aren't doing satan's bidding, they're doing God's bidding.
                        Revelation 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads

                        Is God really commanding these locusts (evil spirits).?

                        First there is the mention of a king of the pit, thus logically one would first say this king over them is commanding them. Now let's check on what they are being commanded.

                        1. Not to hurt the grass, green, thing, trees. Curious if this was God commanding he just wiped out 1/3 of all these things just prior. Rather Satan would need to preserve these things.
                        2. Now they can hurt but not those on earth with the seal of God. Important to not to kill, why? In the next seal we do see God's army from heaven killing 1/3rd of the people. So the locust going forward to those without the mark of God yes will hurt them but not kill them. Now why would Satan do this to those who follow him and have his mark? For control and to gather them like robots to battle against the Lord (they probably would not do it on their own). And from scriptures it does appear that when you are demonically indwelled it hurts.
                        3. As for commanding them not to touch those with the seal of God, did he really give that command, or does the colon separating the verse just give us detail who ultimately was hurt and was not....and perhaps Satan knew that he could not touch them anyway.

                        So a deeper study would show the king of the bottomless pit is commanding these locusts..

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

                          Azazel. aka Baal, aka Allah.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

                            Originally posted by divaD View Post
                            What I tend to think a lot of folks miss, is this. These coming out of the pit in Rev 9 aren't doing satan's bidding, they're doing God's bidding.?
                            Totally agree, God is sovereign and is in control of everything.

                            Revelation 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

                            If satan was behind this, do you honestly think he would be telling his armies to attack and torment his own people, but as to the saints though, spare them altogether? Since when did satan decide to start having mercy on the people he hates the most
                            Satan can do nothing he is not allowed to do, we can see in Job that only with Gods permission could he do those things, Also at the Passover in Egypt, Exodus 12:29 And it came to pass at midnight that the Lord struck all the firstborn in the Land of Egypt... Yet we also know it was the destroying angel God used to do this...

                            I see a lot of people(not you) try and make Satan this rebel that goes around doing bad things against Gods will, someone who trys to foil Gods plan of salvation,. etc etc But he is part of Gods plan to bring about Gods plan, God is all powerful and mighty he created Satan and knew what he was going to do before he created him. Yet Satan chose not to follow God and is now a tool for Gods use, for instance God puts him in the pit again at the end of the tribulation and releases him again at the end of the 1000yrs and this is not because he escapes and hopes to thwart Gods plan, no, its to accomplish Gods plan.

                            People seem to assign Satan with great power, someone who can snatch salvation out of our hand, and get one up on the scoreboard against God, they seem to like to make Satan great which makes God less> I guess I see Satan as less and God as more.

                            Let me ask you this, when the Lord said to Judas "what you do, do quickly" was the Lord commanding Judas or Satan? reference John 13:27 and if He was commanding Satan did Satan have any choice in the matter? I say no!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

                              Originally posted by divaD View Post
                              Let's start here.

                              Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.


                              Revelation 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

                              What is one thing both passages have in common? This for one....the great day...that great day
                              yes exactly, God reserves them to be released in that day of trouble.

                              These angels in Jude, when did they initially get confined? My guess would be maybe during Noah's day. And if so, according to Revelation 16:14 they apparently get released at some point. Why then can't these we see in both Jude 1:6 and Revelation 16:14, not be the same ones we see coming out of the pit in Rev 9?
                              I see the Gen 6 argument as Sons of Seth/God but just out of curiosity who are the demons we are told about in the four gospels, if you have the demons from Noahs day as being bound back then, then logically you don't view them as the ones going around possessing people in the gospels accounts?

                              So IOW, there is a connection of coming out of the pit in Rev 9 with that of coming out of the pit in Rev 13, where it says a beast rises out of the sea, the sea likely meaning the pit in that context.
                              Ive never heard the pit as the sea before? isn't that a rather large stretch? Peter was a fisher of men, and he fished the fish out of the sea, can you see how I could possibly come to the conclusion the beast out of the sea could possibly be a man? The only time I can think of the sea as referring to the abyss is when the Lord made the swine run into the sea, but the play on words there will go over most peoples heads, as the name of the lake refers to the deep, (abyssos)

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

                                Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
                                Revelation 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads

                                Is God really commanding these locusts (evil spirits).?

                                First there is the mention of a king of the pit, thus logically one would first say this king over them is commanding them. Now let's check on what they are being commanded.

                                1. Not to hurt the grass, green, thing, trees. Curious if this was God commanding he just wiped out 1/3 of all these things just prior. Rather Satan would need to preserve these things.
                                2. Now they can hurt but not those on earth with the seal of God. Important to not to kill, why? In the next seal we do see God's army from heaven killing 1/3rd of the people. So the locust going forward to those without the mark of God yes will hurt them but not kill them. Now why would Satan do this to those who follow him and have his mark? For control and to gather them like robots to battle against the Lord (they probably would not do it on their own). And from scriptures it does appear that when you are demonically indwelled it hurts.
                                3. As for commanding them not to touch those with the seal of God, did he really give that command, or does the colon separating the verse just give us detail who ultimately was hurt and was not....and perhaps Satan knew that he could not touch them anyway.

                                So a deeper study would show the king of the bottomless pit is commanding these locusts..
                                Ross, do you not remember what Jesus said about a kingdom divided against itself can't stand?

                                Those that don't have the seal of God in their foreheads, who's team would they be on? God's or satan's? Those that have the seal of God in their foreheads, who's team would they be on? God's or satan's? Which team are not to be tormented? Is it not the latter? Would not the latter be part of God' team?

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