Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Who is this beast?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Revelation Man
    replied
    Re: Who is this beast?

    Originally posted by marty fox View Post
    I offered scriptures to my points but you didn't for any of your claims especially about the antichrist spirit not being created but the scripture below proves your view wrong

    1 Timothy 6:13-16
    13 In the sight of God, who gives life to everything, and of Christ Jesus, who while testifying before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, I charge you 14 to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.

    God is the only uncreated being and He created everything and is the only eternal one
    Scriptures mean nothing if you don't understand the concept brother. Just because you post scriptures prove nothing when I point out John calls him THAT ANTI-CHRIST it trumps all of those passages you use. Would you rather we say 15 words hes described by everytime we mention his name ? Its a nonsensical position tbh.

    Lets call him football...you want too ? It doesn't matter what we call him. The static about this just makes me SMH.

    Leave a comment:


  • randyk
    replied
    Re: Who is this beast?

    Originally posted by marty fox View Post
    But there is a difference Jesus actually tied apostate Israel to the false prophet He didn't do that to anyone else

    We need to take into account what actually happened at Jesus' death it was a major event and satans highest priority and a beast would be behind it
    Sorry, Marty, I don't see anywhere that Israel is tied, biblically, to the False Prophet of Rev 13! Many in Israel were called "false prophets" in the OT because at that time only Israel had an orthodox form of prophesying. False prophecy would logically take place in Israel at that time.

    None of this means Israel is tied to the False Prophet. In the NT era the gift of prophecy extended well beyond Israel to any nation that chooses to accept Christianity. The Roman Church was one of those "prophets" in the NT era that adopted not just a nation but also an empire! Clearly, Rome could produce a "false prophet?"

    The fact there was not just one Beast but *two Beasts* in Rev 13 indicates to me that the 2nd Beast is tied to the 1st one. If the Beast Empire represents a revival of the old Roman Empire, then it stands to reason that the False Prophet is a corrupt pope over that Roman Empire.

    Leave a comment:


  • marty fox
    replied
    Re: Who is this beast?

    Originally posted by randyk View Post
    Yes, I understand the arguments. However, the same could be applied to the apostate Church. The Church consists of sheep, and in a state of apostasy acts like the Devil. The Catholic Church, at the time of its apostasy during the Protestant Reformation, murdered lots of Protestant Christians.

    There is really no difference in how you apply this to Israel as to how I apply it to the apostate Church. The major problem for me is that the 4 Beasts are, for me, identified in Daniel as beginning with Babylon and ending with Rome, who crucified Christ and destroyed the temple and Jerusalem.

    The beast, therefore, is Rome. The Antichrist and the False Prophet both will rule over a last days version of the old pagan Roman Empire. Just my opinion.
    But there is a difference Jesus actually tied apostate Israel to the false prophet He didn't do that to anyone else

    We need to take into account what actually happened at Jesus' death it was a major event and satans highest priority and a beast would be behind it

    Leave a comment:


  • randyk
    replied
    Re: Who is this beast?

    [QUOTE=ross3421;3517573]

    That's the problem these four kingdoms is Dan 2 are NOT the same four!!!!!!
    As I pointed out, in both Dan 2 and Dan 7 the 4th kingdom is described as "breaking into pieces" the world in its time, including previous kingdoms in that region. This is no accident. This 4th kingdom is, I believe, the same kingdom, the Roman Empire.

    Originally posted by ross
    These four in Dan 7 are the four which come out of the third kingdom broken into four parts!!!!!
    Yes, the 3rd Kingdom, which I believe is Greece, is broken up into 4 parts. However, this bears no relation to the fact there are 4 kingdoms in Dan 7--not anymore than they are relevant to the fact Dan 2 mentions 4 kingdoms!

    It is simply a fact of history that Alexander's Empire broke up into 4 areas, which is significant because 2 of those areas continued to play a big role in Israel's history, particularly in the time of Antiochus 4! Your assignment of 4 areas of Greece to the 4 kingdoms of Dan 7 is therefore completely arbitrary to me. You might as well assign them to the 4 directions, north, south, east, and west, or to the 4 corners of a couch.

    Originally posted by ross
    8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven. 9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

    The four notable ones are the lion, bear, leopard, beast.

    You see God has four beasts (four kings) which are part of his kingdom which shall rule all at one time upon the earth. Likewise prior to this an other four kings which shall arise all at once upon the earth mimicking the kingdom but this kingdom is from below not above. The four beasts of this kingdom below which come up all at once are the lion, bear, leopard, beast.

    Do you not see the parallel counterfeit deception?
    I can see that the pagan kingdoms of this world are led by angels of darkness. But I can't at all say that your prophetic interpretation is correct. We'll agree to disagree agreeably.

    Leave a comment:


  • marty fox
    replied
    Re: Who is this beast?

    Originally posted by Revelation Man View Post
    We can call him Concrete as long as we are speaking about The Man of Sin, The Assyrian, The Little Horn, The Wicked One, etc. etc. etc. his many names. And yes, one o his names is Anti-Christ because John pointed to THAT Anti-Christ. It simply means one that is aGainst God/Christ and he will be against Jesus who is God. The reason its called an ANTI.....Christ/God being is it is an uncreated Spirit, its always been just like God and Jesus. Its not Satan, hes a Created being. Not many get this, BUT....if God is Eternal and he is, then this OPPOSITE Spirit also has to be Eternal. God is Hly thus there has to be an opposite SPIRIT ETERNALLY just like God is Eternal.

    Don't get caught up in the name, we all know who he is and his MANY NAMES.....if we all agree to call hm Pogo Stick.....its OK, its just a name. I never get those who worry about people who call him the Anti-Christ, which he is.

    Hint, I call him the Anti-Christ {what he is now} until he conquers Jerusalem/Mediterranean Sea Region, then I call him the Beast.

    So you are right, the anti-christ spirit is a spirit, I contend its an Eternal spirit, but John spoke o a MAN....THAT....Anti-Christ, he was pointing to the coming Man of Sin, the Assyrian, the Little Horn. So he is THAT ANTI-CHRIST.....So I am OK with the Moniker.

    I mean we call it the Lords Prayer and its really the Disciples Prayer right ? Jesus said "PRAY LIKE THIS".....to the Disciples.
    I offered scriptures to my points but you didn't for any of your claims especially about the antichrist spirit not being created but the scripture below proves your view wrong

    1 Timothy 6:13-16
    13 In the sight of God, who gives life to everything, and of Christ Jesus, who while testifying before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, I charge you 14 to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which God will bring about in his own timeóGod, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.

    God is the only uncreated being and He created everything and is the only eternal one

    Leave a comment:


  • Revelation Man
    replied
    Re: Who is this beast?

    Originally posted by marty fox View Post
    It’s quite something that people keep saying the antichrist when there isn’t any the antichrist the bible says that there are many antichrist but who were they?

    Below are the only verses in the bible with the word antichrist

    2 John 1:7
    7 I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

    1 John 4:3
    3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

    1 John 2:22
    22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.

    1 John 2:18-19
    18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

    John tells us that antichrist is a spirit and John describes the non believing Jews of his days as that antichrists spirit
    We can call him Concrete as long as we are speaking about The Man of Sin, The Assyrian, The Little Horn, The Wicked One, etc. etc. etc. his many names. And yes, one o his names is Anti-Christ because John pointed to THAT Anti-Christ. It simply means one that is aGainst God/Christ and he will be against Jesus who is God. The reason its called an ANTI.....Christ/God being is it is an uncreated Spirit, its always been just like God and Jesus. Its not Satan, hes a Created being. Not many get this, BUT....if God is Eternal and he is, then this OPPOSITE Spirit also has to be Eternal. God is Hly thus there has to be an opposite SPIRIT ETERNALLY just like God is Eternal.

    Don't get caught up in the name, we all know who he is and his MANY NAMES.....if we all agree to call hm Pogo Stick.....its OK, its just a name. I never get those who worry about people who call him the Anti-Christ, which he is.

    Hint, I call him the Anti-Christ {what he is now} until he conquers Jerusalem/Mediterranean Sea Region, then I call him the Beast.

    So you are right, the anti-christ spirit is a spirit, I contend its an Eternal spirit, but John spoke o a MAN....THAT....Anti-Christ, he was pointing to the coming Man of Sin, the Assyrian, the Little Horn. So he is THAT ANTI-CHRIST.....So I am OK with the Moniker.

    I mean we call it the Lords Prayer and its really the Disciples Prayer right ? Jesus said "PRAY LIKE THIS".....to the Disciples.

    Leave a comment:


  • ross3421
    replied
    Re: Who is this beast?

    [QUOTE]
    Originally posted by randyk View Post
    These 4 kingdoms in Dan 2 are comparable, in the minds of many, with the 4 kingdoms in Dan 7, which are then described as "beasts." There, they appear to be "kingdoms" as well.
    That's the problem these four kingdoms is Dan 2 are NOT the same four!!!!!!

    These four in Dan 7 are the four which come out of the third kingdom broken into four parts!!!!!

    8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven. 9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

    The four notable ones are the lion, bear, leopard, beast.

    You see God has four beasts (four kings) which are part of his kingdom which shall rule all at one time upon the earth. Likewise prior to this an other four kings which shall arise all at once upon the earth mimicking the kingdom but this kingdom is from below not above. The four beasts of this kingdom below which come up all at once are the lion, bear, leopard, beast.


    Do you not see the parallel counterfeit deception?

    Leave a comment:


  • randyk
    replied
    Re: Who is this beast?

    Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
    "Beast"...Ö..is no know country. The kingdom is called a "beast" as it has no name. So stop trying to associate a country to the beast. The beast kingdom origin is Hell which comes upon the earth (Hell on earth). The fourth kingdom is this hell on earth which we see rise up in Rev 13.
    The fact is, the Beasts represent Kingdoms. Daniel identified the "Head of Gold" as Babylon, which is in fact a country. Babylon was the capital city over a great kingdom.

    Dan 2.37 You, O king, the king of kings, to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the power, and the might, and the glory, 38 and into whose hand he has given, wherever they dwell, the children of man, the beasts of the field, and the birds of the heavens, making you rule over them allóyou are the head of gold. 39 Another kingdom inferior to you shall arise after you, and yet a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth. 40 And there shall be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron, because iron breaks to pieces and shatters all things.

    These 4 kingdoms in Dan 2 are comparable, in the minds of many, with the 4 kingdoms in Dan 7, which are then described as "beasts." There, they appear to be "kingdoms" as well.

    Dan 7.17 ĎThese four great beasts are four kings who shall arise out of the earth. 18 But the saints of the Most High shall receive the kingdom and possess the kingdom forever, forever and ever...í 23 ďThus he said: ĎAs for the fourth beast,
    there shall be a fourth kingdom on earth,
    which shall be different from all the kingdoms,
    and it shall devour the whole earth,
    and trample it down, and break it to pieces.

    Please note the comparison between Dan 2.40 and Dan 7.23. The 4th kingdom "breaks to pieces," or is superior to previous kingdoms, until God's Kingdom arrives.

    Leave a comment:


  • ross3421
    replied
    Re: Who is this beast?

    "Beast"...Ö..is no know country. The kingdom is called a "beast" as it has no name. So stop trying to associate a country to the beast. The beast kingdom origin is Hell which comes upon the earth (Hell on earth). The fourth kingdom is this hell on earth which we see rise up in Rev 13.

    Leave a comment:


  • randyk
    replied
    Re: Who is this beast?

    Originally posted by marty fox View Post
    I donít think that the last beast in Daniel is Rome I think it was Greece

    Iím not saying Israel but apostate Israel remember that they rejected and killed their messiah and then turned their back on God and claimed that they have no king but Cesar if Cesar was their king they were pagan

    If we put aside general biblical preconceived ideas and read what the scriptures say it does back my claim

    This beast is called the false prophet

    Jesus calls the Pharisees false prophets

    This beast has two horns like a lamb

    Jesus called the Pharisees wolves in sheepís clothing

    This beast speaks like a dragon

    Jesus said that the Pharisees are the sons of the devil who is the dragon because of what they say

    Satan used King Herod king of the Jews to try and kill Jesus when he was born and eventually Satan used apostate Israel to
    Kill Jesus

    This demonic beast job is to give power and glory to the first beast and using apostate Israel to turn the Jewish people from their messiah to Cesar was one way of doing it I donít think my claim is that far fetched

    Satan was in the background of Jesus death and the Jewish persecution of the first century saints
    Yes, I understand the arguments. However, the same could be applied to the apostate Church. The Church consists of sheep, and in a state of apostasy acts like the Devil. The Catholic Church, at the time of its apostasy during the Protestant Reformation, murdered lots of Protestant Christians.

    There is really no difference in how you apply this to Israel as to how I apply it to the apostate Church. The major problem for me is that the 4 Beasts are, for me, identified in Daniel as beginning with Babylon and ending with Rome, who crucified Christ and destroyed the temple and Jerusalem.

    The beast, therefore, is Rome. The Antichrist and the False Prophet both will rule over a last days version of the old pagan Roman Empire. Just my opinion.

    Leave a comment:


  • marty fox
    replied
    Re: Who is this beast?

    Originally posted by Revelation Man View Post
    No they aren't....Satan is ONLY A BEAST in juxtaposition to..........Rev. 12, the 7 Heads and 10 Horns with 7 CROWNS. Apollyon is ONLY A BEAST in Rev. 17 in juxtaposition to the 7 Heads and 10 Horns and no Crowns. {7 HEADS and 10 Horns = the Mediterranean Seas Region INCLUDING Israel.}

    Satan is not a Beast just because hes a Demon, neither is Apollyon. They are like the Anti-Christ, a Beast over a certain REGION.
    Itís quite something that people keep saying the antichrist when there isnít any the antichrist the bible says that there are many antichrist but who were they?

    Below are the only verses in the bible with the word antichrist

    2 John 1:7
    7 I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

    1 John 4:3
    3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

    1 John 2:22
    22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichristódenying the Father and the Son.

    1 John 2:18-19
    18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

    John tells us that antichrist is a spirit and John describes the non believing Jews of his days as that antichrists spirit

    Leave a comment:


  • marty fox
    replied
    Re: Who is this beast?

    Originally posted by randyk View Post
    I should think the 2nd Beast could be an apostate Pope of an apostate Catholic Church. After all, the last beast in Dan 7 is Rome. Rome could be represented both by an emperor and a pope, ie the Antichrist and the False Prophet. I would not think that Israel is a part of this pagan entity. Israel is corrupt, but maintains a believing remnant destined to lead the way to Israel's national salvation.
    I donít think that the last beast in Daniel is Rome I think it was Greece

    Iím not saying Israel but apostate Israel remember that they rejected and killed their messiah and then turned their back on God and claimed that they have no king but Cesar if Cesar was their king they were pagan

    If we put aside general biblical preconceived ideas and read what the scriptures say it does back my claim

    This beast is called the false prophet

    Jesus calls the Pharisees false prophets

    This beast has two horns like a lamb

    Jesus called the Pharisees wolves in sheepís clothing

    This beast speaks like a dragon

    Jesus said that the Pharisees are the sons of the devil who is the dragon because of what they say

    Satan used King Herod king of the Jews to try and kill Jesus when he was born and eventually Satan used apostate Israel to
    Kill Jesus

    This demonic beast job is to give power and glory to the first beast and using apostate Israel to turn the Jewish people from their messiah to Cesar was one way of doing it I donít think my claim is that far fetched

    Satan was in the background of Jesus death and the Jewish persecution of the first century saints

    Leave a comment:


  • randyk
    replied
    Re: Who is this beast?

    Originally posted by marty fox View Post
    No I'm not meaning any of Daniels beast at all but one from Revelation one that isn't a nation concurring beast but the false prophet the only beast which is described as a clean animal not an unclean animal which would represent Israel.

    Revelation 13:11
    Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. He has 2 horns like a lamb but speaks like a dragon he looks gentle but he is evil.

    How did Jesus describe false prophets and who did He say false prophets are?

    Jesus talking about the Pharisees and He describes them in

    Matthew 7:15
    Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

    Jesus above links the false prophet to the Pharisees

    John 8:44
    44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your fatherís desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies

    Jesus also links the Pharisees to the satan the dragon in the verse above

    If you were satan wouldn't do your best to wipe out the church when it first started?
    I should think the 2nd Beast could be an apostate Pope of an apostate Catholic Church. After all, the last beast in Dan 7 is Rome. Rome could be represented both by an emperor and a pope, ie the Antichrist and the False Prophet. I would not think that Israel is a part of this pagan entity. Israel is corrupt, but maintains a believing remnant destined to lead the way to Israel's national salvation.

    Leave a comment:


  • marty fox
    replied
    Re: Who is this beast?

    To be a true false prophet you need to one from the same people the true prophets came from

    Leave a comment:


  • marty fox
    replied
    Re: Who is this beast?

    Originally posted by randyk View Post
    If you're talking about Dan 7, it can't be Israel because the 4 beasts represent 4 major kingdoms in the region of the Mediterranean and Israel, who come to impact Israel as pagan kingdoms. The 1st one is identified as Babylon. We know this was followed by Persia and Greece, both of whom are mentioned in Daniel. Finally, Rome is the final Kingdom in sequence, which is significant because in that empire Christ was crucified and Jerusalem was destroyed. Israel does not destroy itself, and is not one of these four.
    No I'm not meaning any of Daniels beast at all but one from Revelation one that isn't a nation concurring beast but the false prophet the only beast which is described as a clean animal not an unclean animal which would represent Israel.

    Revelation 13:11
    Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. He has 2 horns like a lamb but speaks like a dragon he looks gentle but he is evil.

    How did Jesus describe false prophets and who did He say false prophets are?

    Jesus talking about the Pharisees and He describes them in

    Matthew 7:15
    Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

    Jesus above links the false prophet to the Pharisees

    John 8:44
    44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies

    Jesus also links the Pharisees to the satan the dragon in the verse above

    If you were satan wouldn't do your best to wipe out the church when it first started?

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X