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  • marty fox
    replied
    Re: Who is this beast?

    Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
    If your point is that God created Satan, yes he did. What's next?
    Sorry but what do you mean?

    Leave a comment:


  • Trivalee
    replied
    Re: Who is this beast?

    Originally posted by Revelation Man View Post
    There has ALWAYS been a Spirit of evil.....just like there has always been a spirit that is Holy. It just is. If God is Holy.....then there has to be an evil opposite.
    I completely agree. There has to be evil to contrast and reflect God's holiness.

    Leave a comment:


  • Trivalee
    replied
    Re: Who is this beast?

    Originally posted by marty fox View Post
    Which Scripture by John do you mean?

    You completely ignored my scripture about God being the only uncreated and eternal one can you admit that you were mistaken? We all are at times
    If your point is that God created Satan, yes he did. What's next?

    Leave a comment:


  • Trivalee
    replied
    Re: Who is this beast?

    Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
    "Beast"...Ö..is no know country. The kingdom is called a "beast" as it has no name. So stop trying to associate a country to the beast. The beast kingdom origin is Hell which comes upon the earth (Hell on earth). The fourth kingdom is this hell on earth which we see rise up in Rev 13.
    Well, who said you don't have a pretty unique definition of what a "beast" represents in scripture even if you're hopelessly far from the truth?

    Leave a comment:


  • randyk
    replied
    Re: Who is this beast?

    Originally posted by Dennis Timm View Post
    Marty, Just seen your question. Who is the Beast of Rev. 13:11? I've viewed many of the responses so what I'm suggesting is for you and those who have responded as well, for I sincerely believe you all are missing the intended interpretation of the first beast of Rev. 13, which comes up out of the sea and the second which comes up out of the earth in vs.11.

    Please give this serious thought. The earth has seven billion people living on it this time. According the the International Bible Society only 25% claim to be Christian. Of that 25% there is great diversity over Bible Teachings not to mention the other 75% don't even know who Jesus is. As bleak as this may sound, the good news is this is not a problem for God. The Father knows the beginning from the end and before earth was ever created He predetermined a series of events in which His gospel shall go out to the entire world and then the end shall come. (Mat 24:14) God is going to use this gospel to seperate the sheep from the goats. Rev. reveals how He will do this, as it was written primarily for those who will be alive during the Tribulation.

    Since Rev. has been written expositors of many different faiths have interpreted these prophecies and there are hundreds out there. However, their diversity just cancel each other out. Would you not agree, that there can only be "ONE TRUE INTERPRETATION"? I thinks so! And there is. However, the keys to understanding Rev. is found in the book of Daniel. (Dan. 12:4&9) According to these two texts, Daniel was told to, seal of the
    scroll [book] until the "time of the end." What God purposely kept hidden in this book are the four keys/laws/hermeneutics which most be used to arrive at true meaning of the prophecies in both the books of Dan. and Rev.

    The study of apocalyptic prophecy is my spiritual gift, I have been studying it for three decades. Should you like to read what I believe is the best study source out there in print, go to Amazon Books, and get the book in paperback or online. The title is, "JESUS FINAL VICTORY", by Larry Willson. He is an author and teacher, and none-denominational too. Simply amazing study.

    Blessing Brother,
    Dennis Timm
    I am a futurist, and agree that Revelation was focused, largely, on the last generation of this age. However, I think the "unsealing" for the "time of the end" may refer to the transition from OT to NT at the cross of Christ. That unsealed the revelation of Christ as the fulfillment of OT typology.

    Nevertheless, Christian truth will be consummated in these endtimes, when Christ returns to destroy the Antichrist. I'm a Postribber, so I think this is a time all generations of Christians should be able to learn from since there are antichrists in every generation.

    Remaining vigilant for Christ's Coming is not so much a matter of standing and looking up, waiting for him, as the need to expose deceivers who sidetrack people. Things like materialism and false religion detract from the revelation of Christ, and it is our duty to remain vigilant to expose these things, helping others to spiritually prepare for the endtime judgment.

    Leave a comment:


  • marty fox
    replied
    Re: Who is this beast?

    Originally posted by Dennis Timm View Post
    Marty, Just seen your question. Who is the Beast of Rev. 13:11? I've viewed many of the responses so what I'm suggesting is for you and those who have responded as well, for I sincerely believe you all are missing the intended interpretation of the first beast of Rev. 13, which comes up out of the sea and the second which comes up out of the earth in vs.11.

    Please give this serious thought. The earth has seven billion people living on it this time. According the the International Bible Society only 25% claim to be Christian. Of that 25% there is great diversity over Bible Teachings not to mention the other 75% don't even know who Jesus is. As bleak as this may sound, the good news is this is not a problem for God. The Father knows the beginning from the end and before earth was ever created He predetermined a series of events in which His gospel shall go out to the entire world and then the end shall come. (Mat 24:14) God is going to use this gospel to seperate the sheep from the goats. Rev. reveals how He will do this, as it was written primarily for those who will be alive during the Tribulation.

    Since Rev. has been written expositors of many different faiths have interpreted these prophecies and there are hundreds out there. However, their diversity just cancel each other out. Would you not agree, that there can only be "ONE TRUE INTERPRETATION"? I thinks so! And there is. However, the keys to understanding Rev. is found in the book of Daniel. (Dan. 12:4&9) According to these two texts, Daniel was told to, seal of the
    scroll [book] until the "time of the end." What God purposely kept hidden in this book are the four keys/laws/hermeneutics which most be used to arrive at true meaning of the prophecies in both the books of Dan. and Rev.

    The study of apocalyptic prophecy is my spiritual gift, I have been studying it for three decades. Should you like to read what I believe is the best study source out there in print, go to Amazon Books, and get the book in paperback or online. The title is, "JESUS FINAL VICTORY", by Larry Willson. He is an author and teacher, and none-denominational too. Simply amazing study.

    Blessing Brother,
    Dennis Timm
    Hi Dennis thanks for your reply qand welcome to the forum.

    I myself see most of revelation as symbolic and in the first century as you say Daniel was told to seal up scroll because the time was in the future but John was told to not seal up the scroll because the time was near

    I see the beast as a demon influencing Rome and its leaders mostly Nero

    You are right there are so many interpretations of revelation but I use the bible to interpret revelation and to help keep me grounded below is a rule that I use

    The whole of scripture is greater than the sum of its individual passages. You can not comprehend the bible as a whole without comprehending its individual passages and you cannot comprehend its individual passages without comprehending the bible as a whole. The individual passages can never be interpreted in a way as to conflict the whole of scripture

    Thanks for the tip on the book I will look it up

    Leave a comment:


  • Dennis Timm
    replied
    Re: Who is this beast?

    Marty, Just seen your question. Who is the Beast of Rev. 13:11? I've viewed many of the responses so what I'm suggesting is for you and those who have responded as well, for I sincerely believe you all are missing the intended interpretation of the first beast of Rev. 13, which comes up out of the sea and the second which comes up out of the earth in vs.11.

    Please give this serious thought. The earth has seven billion people living on it this time. According the the International Bible Society only 25% claim to be Christian. Of that 25% there is great diversity over Bible Teachings not to mention the other 75% don't even know who Jesus is. As bleak as this may sound, the good news is this is not a problem for God. The Father knows the beginning from the end and before earth was ever created He predetermined a series of events in which His gospel shall go out to the entire world and then the end shall come. (Mat 24:14) God is going to use this gospel to seperate the sheep from the goats. Rev. reveals how He will do this, as it was written primarily for those who will be alive during the Tribulation.

    Since Rev. has been written expositors of many different faiths have interpreted these prophecies and there are hundreds out there. However, their diversity just cancel each other out. Would you not agree, that there can only be "ONE TRUE INTERPRETATION"? I thinks so! And there is. However, the keys to understanding Rev. is found in the book of Daniel. (Dan. 12:4&9) According to these two texts, Daniel was told to, seal of the
    scroll [book] until the "time of the end." What God purposely kept hidden in this book are the four keys/laws/hermeneutics which most be used to arrive at true meaning of the prophecies in both the books of Dan. and Rev.

    The study of apocalyptic prophecy is my spiritual gift, I have been studying it for three decades. Should you like to read what I believe is the best study source out there in print, go to Amazon Books, and get the book in paperback or online. The title is, "JESUS FINAL VICTORY", by Larry Willson. He is an author and teacher, and none-denominational too. Simply amazing study.

    Blessing Brother,
    Dennis Timm

    Leave a comment:


  • ross3421
    replied
    Re: Who is this beast?

    Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
    We should re-consider this idea that the second beast is "like a lamb". Symbolic precedent is that countries are represented by large animals with horns. This symbolism is strong in Dan 7, Dan 8, Rev 13 and Rev 17.

    In the same way the second beast is not like a lamb, it is clearly a beast. Yet it has two HORNS like a lamb. (small little horns). This means that the false prophet beast has two tiny geographical centres (yet this beast has much religious world influence.)

    It has two horns like a lamb, the only two places that match this, are the Vatican and the old Istanbul Islamic Caliphate, both curiously in the two old capitals of the Roman Empire. Neither have armies, nor large geographical areas of authority, yet historically have influenced vast regions and many wars.
    The two horns are to represent the two tribes of the southern kingdom. Judah, Benjamin. The supposed origin of this counterfeit lamb [of god].

    Note the other 10 horns are seen in the first beast.

    Leave a comment:


  • marty fox
    replied
    Re: Who is this beast?

    Originally posted by Revelation Man View Post
    Like I said, you keep citing these verses and they mean nothing as per to what I am speaking about !! So you have cited nothing. I will POST the KJV because people have a tendency to use different bibles that favor an argument, which I find off tbh.

    2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

    This is speaking about PEOPLE who are anti-God/Christ.....it explains nothing about the anti-christ/God spirit.

    1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

    So every spirit means Every Demon and Every Human Spirit/person that says Jesus is not God are all of the ANTI-CHRIST/GOD Spirit....its a EVIL SPIRIT....Not Satan.

    1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

    This means he is of the anti-Christ spirit or anti-God spirit......not THE ANTI-Christ.

    1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

    Here we see that John is shown that in the End Times a person SHALL COME that will be THAT ANTI-CHRIST [Person]. But he says even now there are many people who are anti-christ/God....some were with us, but went their own way !!

    So this coming man John calls THAT Anti-Christ....there are man people who are anti-christ/God....thus they are of an anti-God SPIRIT....1 John 4:3 speaks about the anti-christ or anti-God spirit.

    These verses prove no such thing you stated, which is why I knew I didn't need to revisit them, but you insisted.

    The anti-God/christ spirit is eternal, you can't have an eternal Holy God without an eternal unholy spirit.

    THE ANTI-CHRIST MAN.....is not a Spirit, he's referred to as THAT ANTI-CHRIST which will come or that MAN who is Anti-Christ....but there are many against god and they all follow an anti-God or unholy spirit.

    Its an eternal being....once one understand God is eternal, I don't get why the concept is so hard to pick up....you can't have something Holy unless there is an opposite unholy spirit. BOTH GAVE TO BE ETERNAL !! Have to be.....have to be.
    Im not sure why you say that I keep bringing this up I didn't it is an older post below is the most recent post I sent you

    God isnít silent on it he inspired Paul to write the verses that I quoted you just choose to reject what God said and choose to believe in the lie of Satan of God not being the only uncreated one but God is the only uncreated one thatís what makes him God

    Again God is God because of who he is not because there has to be an opposite of an eternal non created evil spirit

    I agree that Jesus stepped down to be a little lower that the angels while here on earth but do you agree that he is equal to the Father now?

    The holy sprit has been and always will be God and equal to the Father he is just God in a different forum

    Leave a comment:


  • randyk
    replied
    Re: Who is this beast?

    Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
    We should re-consider this idea that the second beast is "like a lamb". Symbolic precedent is that countries are represented by large animals with horns. This symbolism is strong in Dan 7, Dan 8, Rev 13 and Rev 17.

    In the same way the second beast is not like a lamb, it is clearly a beast. Yet it has two HORNS like a lamb. (small little horns). This means that the false prophet beast has two tiny geographical centres (yet this beast has much religious world influence.)

    It has two horns like a lamb, the only two places that match this, are the Vatican and the old Istanbul Islamic Caliphate, both curiously in the two old capitals of the Roman Empire. Neither have armies, nor large geographical areas of authority, yet historically have influenced vast regions and many wars.
    Very reasonable position. I concur.

    Leave a comment:


  • DurbanDude
    replied
    Re: Who is this beast?

    Originally posted by randyk View Post
    Yes, as I said the Roman Catholic Church, if turned apostate by a corrupt pope, could produce a "lamb" in appearance, and yet be driven by Satan. This more likely would be a "Beast"--not Israel. When it was written, the "beasts" were, I think, viewed as pagan nations attacking Israel. In this case, the beast appears as a "lamb."
    We should re-consider this idea that the second beast is "like a lamb". Symbolic precedent is that countries are represented by large animals with horns. This symbolism is strong in Dan 7, Dan 8, Rev 13 and Rev 17.

    In the same way the second beast is not like a lamb, it is clearly a beast. Yet it has two HORNS like a lamb. (small little horns). This means that the false prophet beast has two tiny geographical centres (yet this beast has much religious world influence.)

    It has two horns like a lamb, the only two places that match this, are the Vatican and the old Istanbul Islamic Caliphate, both curiously in the two old capitals of the Roman Empire. Neither have armies, nor large geographical areas of authority, yet historically have influenced vast regions and many wars.

    Leave a comment:


  • Revelation Man
    replied
    Re: Who is this beast?

    Originally posted by marty fox View Post
    Itís quite something that people keep saying the antichrist when there isnít any the antichrist the bible says that there are many antichrist but who were they?

    Below are the only verses in the bible with the word antichrist

    2 John 1:7
    7 I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

    1 John 4:3
    3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

    1 John 2:22
    22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichristódenying the Father and the Son.

    1 John 2:18-19
    18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

    John tells us that antichrist is a spirit and John describes the non believing Jews of his days as that antichrists spirit
    Like I said, you keep citing these verses and they mean nothing as per to what I am speaking about !! So you have cited nothing. I will POST the KJV because people have a tendency to use different bibles that favor an argument, which I find off tbh.

    2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

    This is speaking about PEOPLE who are anti-God/Christ.....it explains nothing about the anti-christ/God spirit.

    1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

    So every spirit means Every Demon and Every Human Spirit/person that says Jesus is not God are all of the ANTI-CHRIST/GOD Spirit....its a EVIL SPIRIT....Not Satan.

    1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

    This means he is of the anti-Christ spirit or anti-God spirit......not THE ANTI-Christ.

    1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

    Here we see that John is shown that in the End Times a person SHALL COME that will be THAT ANTI-CHRIST [Person]. But he says even now there are many people who are anti-christ/God....some were with us, but went their own way !!

    So this coming man John calls THAT Anti-Christ....there are man people who are anti-christ/God....thus they are of an anti-God SPIRIT....1 John 4:3 speaks about the anti-christ or anti-God spirit.

    These verses prove no such thing you stated, which is why I knew I didn't need to revisit them, but you insisted.

    The anti-God/christ spirit is eternal, you can't have an eternal Holy God without an eternal unholy spirit.

    THE ANTI-CHRIST MAN.....is not a Spirit, he's referred to as THAT ANTI-CHRIST which will come or that MAN who is Anti-Christ....but there are many against god and they all follow an anti-God or unholy spirit.

    Its an eternal being....once one understand God is eternal, I don't get why the concept is so hard to pick up....you can't have something Holy unless there is an opposite unholy spirit. BOTH GAVE TO BE ETERNAL !! Have to be.....have to be.

    Leave a comment:


  • randyk
    replied
    Re: Who is this beast?

    Originally posted by marty fox View Post
    Do you think that there could be anything to the false prophet as the only beast being a clean animal and also being referred to as a lamb
    Yes, as I said the Roman Catholic Church, if turned apostate by a corrupt pope, could produce a "lamb" in appearance, and yet be driven by Satan. This more likely would be a "Beast"--not Israel. When it was written, the "beasts" were, I think, viewed as pagan nations attacking Israel. In this case, the beast appears as a "lamb."

    Leave a comment:


  • marty fox
    replied
    Re: Who is this beast?

    Originally posted by Revelation Man View Post
    You don't get the concept I am speaking of it seems. God is a SPIRIT not a Created being of course, as is Jesus the Son and the Holy Spirit, they are just not God in full as per the Glory of God/the ABUNDANCE of the Father, or they couldn't come into mankind's presence, lest we die because of the Glory...Moses could not look upon God lest he would die. Men can look upon Jesus and the Holy Spirit can live in our hearts.

    Likewise, the anti-GOD/Christ spirit is a Spirit, not a Created being. Its like God is Holy, this evil spirit as has to be eternal. Not understanding you can't have an Eternal Holy Being without there being an Eternal Evil Being is js kinda odd thinking to me, but alas I only git thus recently, even though after I pondered it I understood, this is an easy concept to understand, but God is silent on it most of the time.
    God isnít silent on it he inspired Paul to write the verses that I quoted you just choose to reject what God said and choose to believe in the lie of Satan of God not being the only uncreated one but God is the only uncreated one thatís what makes him God

    Again God is God because of who he is not because there has to be an opposite of an eternal non created evil spirit

    I agree that Jesus stepped down to be a little lower that the angels while here on earth but do you agree that he is equal to the Father now?

    The holy sprit has been and always will be God and equal to the Father he is just God in a different forum

    Leave a comment:


  • marty fox
    replied
    Re: Who is this beast?

    Originally posted by randyk View Post
    I have indeed been referencing post #7, and there is nothing in it that links Jesus' statements about false prophets to Rev 13, except in a very nondescript way. You said:

    John 8:44
    44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your fatherís desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies
    Jesus also links the Pharisees to the satan the dragon in the verse above
    If you were satan wouldn't do your best to wipe out the church when it first started?


    John 8.44 certainly links the Pharisees to Satan, and in 1 John 5 John links "the whole world" to Satan. So I see no distinct link between the Pharisees being "satanic" and the False Prophet of Rev 13 being "satanic." You might as well say the "whole world" is the False Prophet because it is "satanic," as well?
    Do you think that there could be anything to the false prophet as the only beast being a clean animal and also being referred to as a lamb

    Leave a comment:

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