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  • Re: Daniel

    Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
    Yes, I concur that Rev 12:6 & 14 are the same event.
    So you do think the war in heaven and satan getting cast to the earth, this also occurs prior to verse 6? We already know it occurs prior to verse 14. So in order for verse 6 and verse 14 to be the same event, the war in heaven and satan getting cast to the earth, has to precede verse 6 as well, otherwise there is no logic to it, just a contradiction instead.

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    • Re: Daniel

      Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
      I'm not sure of what you're saying, please rephrase.
      There is no single antichrist it is a spirit and in many people so there are many antichrist

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      • Re: Daniel

        Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
        They all point to 3.5 years. I see the different terminology as an emphasis, if you don't understand the period using one phrase, two other phrases settles it. So even though translation errors may confuse some languages, still a 3.5 year period of persecution is expected at the end of the age.

        Rev 12 actually confirms that 2 different phrases are pointing to the same period, in verse 6 she is in the wilderness for 1260 days, in verse 14 she is in the wilderness for time, times, and half a time. Confirming they are both the same length of time, and different phrases can be used for the same event.
        The is and will always be Christian Persecution thousands and thousands have been killed since John wrote revelation

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        • Re: Daniel

          Originally posted by divaD View Post
          Too bad you don't find chronology important when it comes to prophecies though.

          Zechariah 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

          This is obviously meaning after verse 2 begins seeing fulfillment. So when do you think verse 2 is meaning? Verse 4 can't be meaning a time prior to verse 2, it has to mean a time post or maybe during verse 2.
          The day of the lord in Zechariah 14 isnít one day of the lord it started at the first advent. Read Zechariah 14 again and see how many times it mentions on that day and see that it is different days for example verse 20 isnít the same day as verses 4,6,8 and 13

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          • Re: Daniel

            Originally posted by marty fox View Post
            The day of the lord in Zechariah 14 isnít one day of the lord it started at the first advent. Read Zechariah 14 again and see how many times it mentions on that day and see that it is different days for example verse 20 isnít the same day as verses 4,6,8 and 13
            In that day is obviously speaking of an era of time that begins in the end of this age just prior to the 2nd coming, then as this era of time progresses, the 2nd coming eventually occurs, followed by the beginning of the next age which includes the first thousand years of it.


            The following is only IMO, so maybe I'm right about all of it, some of it, or maybe none of it. Verses 1-2 occur in this age prior to the 2nd coming. Verse 3-5 are the 2nd coming. Verses 6-11 are the beginning of the next age, the first thousand years of it. Verses 12-15 are the result of the Lord fighting against those nations once He physically returns, thus parenthetical. Verses 16-21 are what takes place in the beginning of the next age during the first thousand years of it. Which then makes verses 6-11 and verses 12-15 meaning the same time period, the next age, the first thousand years of it.

            Since you neglected to answer what I asked in my other post, so once again, when do you think verse 2 is meaning? Because whenever you think it is meaning, verse 4 can't occur prior to it, but has to occur during or after it.

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            • Re: Daniel

              Originally posted by divaD View Post
              In that day is obviously speaking of an era of time that begins in the end of this age just prior to the 2nd coming, then as this era of time progresses, the 2nd coming eventually occurs, followed by the beginning of the next age which includes the first thousand years of it.


              The following is only IMO, so maybe I'm right about all of it, some of it, or maybe none of it. Verses 1-2 occur in this age prior to the 2nd coming. Verse 3-5 are the 2nd coming. Verses 6-11 are the beginning of the next age, the first thousand years of it. Verses 12-15 are the result of the Lord fighting against those nations once He physically returns, thus parenthetical. Verses 16-21 are what takes place in the beginning of the next age during the first thousand years of it. Which then makes verses 6-11 and verses 12-15 meaning the same time period, the next age, the first thousand years of it.

              Since you neglected to answer what I asked in my other post, so once again, when do you think verse 2 is meaning? Because whenever you think it is meaning, verse 4 can't occur prior to it, but has to occur during or after it.
              Verse 2 I believe to be 70AD

              Verse 4 isnít a one time event it refers to the Olivit discourse and the day of accention. This isnít all on the same day and it jumps around in time just like revelation does.

              Jesus warned them to flee when they saw the Roman armies during the Olivit discourse and then Jesus told them to take the gospel to the world when He ascended

              You can not take Zechariah 14 literal like when it says it will be a day without sunlight but then says it will be light at night. Why does it tell them to flee when the lord is fighting for us? When the lord fights there really is no battle

              The living water is the holy sprit within the church as Jesus explains in the verses below

              John 7:37-39
              37 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, ďLet anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.Ē[c] 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

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              • Re: Daniel

                Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                The is and will always be Christian Persecution thousands and thousands have been killed since John wrote revelation
                Very true, but there is a precise period of 3.5 years of persecution specifically under the beast, specifically ending at the second coming.

                That persecution period specifically relating to 3.5 years is mentioned in Daniel 7, Rev 12, Rev 13. Two of those three chapters relate the persecution to a boastful leader.

                That boastful leader is specifically destroyed at the second coming according to Daniel 11 (at the resurrection); Dan 7 (end of wordly kingdoms) ; Rev 19 (second coming); 2 Thess 2 (second coming)

                So we have a definite final 3.5 years of persecution, relating to a definite boastful leader, who in 4 separate chapters in the Bible is destroyed at the end of this age.

                In this context, Rev 20 refers to martyrdom by the beast, it would make sense to relate that to the precise 3.5 years of martyrdom at the end of the age. Even Rev 6 relates the martyrdom to the end times opening of the 5th seal.

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                • Re: Daniel

                  Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
                  Very true, but there is a precise period of 3.5 years of persecution specifically under the beast, specifically ending at the second coming.

                  That persecution period specifically relating to 3.5 years is mentioned in Daniel 7, Rev 12, Rev 13. Two of those three chapters relate the persecution to a boastful leader.

                  That boastful leader is specifically destroyed at the second coming according to Daniel 11 (at the resurrection); Dan 7 (end of wordly kingdoms) ; Rev 19 (second coming); 2 Thess 2 (second coming)

                  So we have a definite final 3.5 years of persecution, relating to a definite boastful leader, who in 4 separate chapters in the Bible is destroyed at the end of this age.

                  In this context, Rev 20 refers to martyrdom by the beast, it would make sense to relate that to the precise 3.5 years of martyrdom at the end of the age. Even Rev 6 relates the martyrdom to the end times opening of the 5th seal.
                  But couldnít they be different times as there have been different 3 1/2 year persecutionís in history?

                  Revelation 12 isnít a persecution but protection from a persecution

                  Just wondering do I see a rapture before a persecution?

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                  • Re: Daniel

                    Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                    But couldn’t they be different times as there have been different 3 1/2 year persecution’s in history?

                    Revelation 12 isn’t a persecution but protection from a persecution

                    Just wondering do I see a rapture before a persecution?
                    You say Rev 12 isn't a persection, but a protection from persecution. Sure for the woman with the 12 stars there is protection. But then the dragon wages war v17 against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

                    I interpret that to mean that Satan wages war against those who believe in Jesus, sounds like persecution to me. Same as Dan 7 and Rev 13, all 3 chapters point to this final persecution.

                    Daniel 7 also refers to this final boastful man, and that period of persecution ends with the end of the world :
                    The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time. “‘But the court will sit, and his power will be taken away and completely destroyed forever. 27 Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of all the kingdoms under heaven will be handed over to the holy people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.’

                    Unless you wish to conveniently see symbols whenever the Bible contradicts your position, there is a clear 3.5 years of persecution just prior to the moment that every leader obeys the most high. I don't see any leaders obeying the most high yet, and so we can be certain that there will be a 3.5 year period of persecution at the end of the world.

                    Can there be multiple 3.5 year periods of persecution in history? Possibly but all the BIBLICAL periods are in context of the final 3.5 years before the second coming.

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                    • Re: Daniel

                      Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                      There is no single antichrist it is a spirit and in many people so there are many antichrist
                      That's not what the Bible says, sorry.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Daniel

                        Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                        Verse 2 I believe to be 70AD

                        Verse 4 isnít a one time event it refers to the Olivit discourse and the day of accention. This isnít all on the same day and it jumps around in time just like revelation does.

                        Jesus warned them to flee when they saw the Roman armies during the Olivit discourse and then Jesus told them to take the gospel to the world when He ascended

                        You can not take Zechariah 14 literal like when it says it will be a day without sunlight but then says it will be light at night. Why does it tell them to flee when the lord is fighting for us? When the lord fights there really is no battle

                        The living water is the holy sprit within the church as Jesus explains in the verses below

                        John 7:37-39
                        37 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, ďLet anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.Ē[c] 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.
                        Zechariah 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
                        5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.


                        One can't possibly interpret verse 4 correctly if they don't see verse 5 connecting to it. Nothing like what is described in verse 5 ever took place during the 2 times you mentioned in regards to verse 4. Verse 5 indicates...And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains...obviously because of what takes place in verse 4. And at the end of verse 5 it tells why His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, that being because of this event, apparently...and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Daniel

                          Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
                          That's not what the Bible says, sorry.
                          Itís exactly what the bible says

                          Below are the only four verses in the entire Bible that mentions the word antichrist and they tell us what the antichrist is

                          1 John 2:18 & 22
                          18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.

                          22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichristódenying the Father and the Son

                          1 John 4:3
                          3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

                          2 John 1:7
                          7 I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

                          And they all seam to describe apostate Israel

                          Comment


                          • Re: Daniel

                            Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                            Itís exactly what the bible says

                            Below are the only four verses in the entire Bible that mentions the word antichrist and they tell us what the antichrist is

                            1 John 2:18 & 22
                            18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.

                            22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichristódenying the Father and the Son

                            1 John 4:3
                            3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

                            2 John 1:7
                            7 I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

                            And they all seam to describe apostate Israel
                            Why just apostate Israel though? There can't be any Gentile acs as well? Why do you make this about the Jews?

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                            • Re: Daniel

                              Originally posted by divaD View Post
                              Why just apostate Israel though? There can't be any Gentile acs as well? Why do you make this about the Jews?
                              Iím not saying that itís just the Jews but apostate Israel is what John had in mind when he spoke these words

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                              • Re: Daniel

                                Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
                                You say Rev 12 isn't a persection, but a protection from persecution. Sure for the woman with the 12 stars there is protection. But then the dragon wages war v17 against the rest of her offspringóthose who keep Godís commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

                                I interpret that to mean that Satan wages war against those who believe in Jesus, sounds like persecution to me. Same as Dan 7 and Rev 13, all 3 chapters point to this final persecution.

                                Daniel 7 also refers to this final boastful man, and that period of persecution ends with the end of the world :
                                The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time. ďĎBut the court will sit, and his power will be taken away and completely destroyed forever. 27 Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of all the kingdoms under heaven will be handed over to the holy people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.í

                                Unless you wish to conveniently see symbols whenever the Bible contradicts your position, there is a clear 3.5 years of persecution just prior to the moment that every leader obeys the most high. I don't see any leaders obeying the most high yet, and so we can be certain that there will be a 3.5 year period of persecution at the end of the world.

                                Can there be multiple 3.5 year periods of persecution in history? Possibly but all the BIBLICAL periods are in context of the final 3.5 years before the second coming.
                                I was meaning during the two 3 1/2 year periods in revelation 12

                                We are the rulers in Daniel 7 as we reign with him in life

                                Romans 5:17
                                For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

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