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The Preterist Gap

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  • Re: The Preterist Gap

    Originally posted by divaD View Post
    This is a perfect example of someone reasoning things in a very logical manner. I have to wonder though, these same ones that insist there are no gaps in the 70 weeks, would they still have Christ fulfilling verse 27 if they eventually admitted that all of verse 27 pertains to the 70th week?

    There is only one way Christ can fit into verse 27, yet I'm not convinced it is even correct. The gap one is placing after the middle of the week, that is not meaning what happens after the 70 weeks are already finished, such as it meaning 70 AD, but that it is meaning in the end of the age and is referring to the GT, thus the GT resumes the latter portion of the 70th week. That of course is pretty much your interpretation. Any other interpretation though, which has Christ fulfilling the middle of the week, and that there are no gaps in the 70 weeks, simply cannot work, and the part after the middle of the week undeniably proves it.

    So let's consider your interpretation for a moment then.

    Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


    The question that needs to be asked here, is this. and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate. Shall make what desolate according to verse 27? How can one answer that if they place a gap before this? Surely what he makes desolate, the answer has to be found within verse 27 itself, otherwise it renders that verse nonsensical if we have no clue from this verse telling us what it is that he makes desolate. Maybe it's just my translation that's the problem, and that other translations answer this for us in that verse? But as to the translation I'm using, I'm not seeing how it can't be connected with the sacrifice and the oblation that he causes to cease. And if it is connected with that, how are we to make sense of this verse if there is a 2000 year gap after the middle of the week, or even a 40 year gap after the middle of the week?
    I understand why you are asking those questions, but it is mainly due to the translation you have chosen which lacks clarity.

    He will confirm a covenant for the many during one seven. In the middle of the seven, he will cause sacrifice and offering to cease.
    On the wing of abominations is one who causes desolation, until the decreed end is poured out on the one who causes desolation.


    The HE is Jesus. Jesus 3.5 year ministry only to Jews confirmed v25, a promised Messiah to the Jews. Then Jesus was the final lamb sacrifice, at the cross the Jewish age stopped. Right there the cross opened the way of salvation to all.

    Then we still expect a desolator to come, who will then come to his end 3.5 years later, completing the week.

    We know the first half has occurred, and we know the second half has not occurred yet, but uses wording that matches the 42 months of the man of sin.

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    • Re: The Preterist Gap

      Originally posted by Cyberseeker View Post
      Now it’s me sounding like a broken record! Here is verse 27 with my notes. As you can see, there is a full stop after the abolition of sacrifice. Then the passage moves to the next stage. There will be a defiant return to sacrifice, and these will ‘overspread’ the following 40 years until judgement is poured out.

      So, verse 27 involves the 70th week, as well as the repercussions of rejecting it. The fall of Jerusalem and destruction of the temple didn't take place within the actual seventy weeks themselves, but the prophet mentioned it to provide information of the aftermath to the weeks in order to explain what the eventual outcome would be.
      He (Messiah) shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; but in the middle of the week (3˝ yrs after his revealing) shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. (temple curtain torn) And on the wing of abominations (ongoing sacrifice an abomination) shall be one who makes desolate, (Titus destroys temple) even until the consummation, which is determined, is poured out on the desolate. (judgement on Jerusalem)
      If you are referring to Titus, then your view also has a gap.

      Comment


      • Re: The Preterist Gap

        Originally posted by Cyberseeker View Post
        Now it’s me sounding like a broken record! Here is verse 27 with my notes. As you can see, there is a full stop after the abolition of sacrifice. Then the passage moves to the next stage. There will be a defiant return to sacrifice, and these will ‘overspread’ the following 40 years until judgement is poured out.

        So, verse 27 involves the 70th week, as well as the repercussions of rejecting it. The fall of Jerusalem and destruction of the temple didn't take place within the actual seventy weeks themselves, but the prophet mentioned it to provide information of the aftermath to the weeks in order to explain what the eventual outcome would be.
        He (Messiah) shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; but in the middle of the week (3˝ yrs after his revealing) shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. (temple curtain torn) And on the wing of abominations (ongoing sacrifice an abomination) shall be one who makes desolate, (Titus destroys temple) even until the consummation, which is determined, is poured out on the desolate. (judgement on Jerusalem)
        I think I finally understand your position, or at least I understand it better than I initially did. I still disagree with your position since there was nothing involving the destruction of the 2nd temple that involved abominations.

        Comment


        • Re: The Preterist Gap

          Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post

          He will confirm a covenant for the many during one seven. In the middle of the seven, he will cause sacrifice and offering to cease.
          On the wing of abominations is one who causes desolation, until the decreed end is poured out on the one who causes desolation.


          The HE is Jesus. Jesus 3.5 year ministry only to Jews confirmed v25, a promised Messiah to the Jews. Then Jesus was the final lamb sacrifice, at the cross the Jewish age stopped. Right there the cross opened the way of salvation to all.

          Then we still expect a desolator to come, who will then come to his end 3.5 years later, completing the week.

          We know the first half has occurred, and we know the second half has not occurred yet, but uses wording that matches the 42 months of the man of sin.
          But even in that translation it is still not making it clear, according to all of that verse, as to why there will be one who shall come on the wing of abominations is one who causes desolation. This part has to connect back to the previous parts.

          I tend to think this portion of the verse needs to be read like such...and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


          And not instead...and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease(insert a gap here) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

          Comment


          • Re: The Preterist Gap

            Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
            If you are referring to Titus, then your view also has a gap.
            All views that have Christ fulfilling verse 27 have a gap after the middle of the week, at least as far as I can tell. Yet some are claiming that after the gap when the remainder of that verse is fulfilled, it is meaning after the 70 weeks have already finished, thus in their minds, no gaps in the 70 weeks. That might even work if some of verse 27 wasn't even meaning the 70th week. But since all of verse 27 is meaning the 70th week, they have a gap in the 70 weeks regardless that they never intended to.

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            • Re: The Preterist Gap

              Originally posted by Cyberseeker View Post
              Now it’s me sounding like a broken record! Here is verse 27 with my notes. As you can see, there is a full stop after the abolition of sacrifice. Then the passage moves to the next stage. There will be a defiant return to sacrifice, and these will ‘overspread’ the following 40 years until judgement is poured out.

              So, verse 27 involves the 70th week, as well as the repercussions of rejecting it. The fall of Jerusalem and destruction of the temple didn't take place within the actual seventy weeks themselves, but the prophet mentioned it to provide information of the aftermath to the weeks in order to explain what the eventual outcome would be.
              He (Messiah) shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; but in the middle of the week (3˝ yrs after his revealing) shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. (temple curtain torn) And on the wing of abominations (ongoing sacrifice an abomination) shall be one who makes desolate, (Titus destroys temple) even until the consummation, which is determined, is poured out on the desolate. (judgement on Jerusalem)
              Some broken records are worth keeping

              70 weeks has all to do with his atonement and nothing to do with the destruction of the city and the sanctuary.
              Some have the 70th week all about the destruction rather than our redemption, that was obtained for us 40 years before.
              And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

              Comment


              • Re: The Preterist Gap

                Originally posted by jeffweeder View Post
                Some broken records are worth keeping
                Not only do I have a broken record, but I also have a sore head.

                Verse 27 involves the 70th week, as well as the repercussions of rejecting it. The fall of Jerusalem and destruction of the temple didn't take place within the actual seventy weeks themselves, but the prophet mentioned it to provide information of the AFTERMATHto the weeks in order to explain what the eventual outcome would be.
                "Your name and renown
                is the desire of our hearts."
                (Isaiah 26:8)

                Comment


                • Re: The Preterist Gap

                  Originally posted by Cyberseeker View Post
                  Not only do I have a broken record, but I also have a sore head.

                  Verse 27 involves the 70th week, as well as the repercussions of rejecting it. The fall of Jerusalem and destruction of the temple didn't take place within the actual seventy weeks themselves, but the prophet mentioned it to provide information of the AFTERMATHto the weeks in order to explain what the eventual outcome would be.

                  Yes , Atonement and destruction didn't happen in the same week.
                  And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

                  Comment


                  • Re: The Preterist Gap

                    Originally posted by jeffweeder View Post

                    Yes , Atonement and destruction didn't happen in the same week.
                    There you go then, further proof Christ can't be meant in verse 27, the fact everything in that verse involves the 70th week, as in it all takes place during the 70th week.

                    Comment


                    • Re: The Preterist Gap

                      Originally posted by Cyberseeker View Post

                      Verse 27 involves the 70th week, as well as the repercussions of rejecting it.
                      Even if that was the case, it would make more sense to apply what happens after the alleged gap to that of the end of the age rather than 70 AD. Some of you seem overly obsessed with 70 AD, as if 70 AD explains pretty much everything in the NT or something.

                      Comment


                      • Re: The Preterist Gap

                        Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
                        If you are referring to Titus, then your view also has a gap.
                        Do you agree with me, that if someone has Jesus fulfilling the middle of the week, followed by a gap, followed by the fulfillment of the remainder of verse 27, that they literally have a gap in the 70 weeks itself? Yet their position is, no gaps in the 70 weeks whatsoever. Like I have pointed out in the past, I'm willing to consider anything if it's at least logical. Nothing logical about claiming there are no gaps in the 70 weeks, then placing a gap in the 70th week, then continuing to insist there are no gaps in the 70 weeks.

                        Comment


                        • Re: The Preterist Gap

                          Originally posted by divaD View Post
                          There you go then, further proof Christ can't be meant in verse 27, the fact everything in that verse involves the 70th week, as in it all takes place during the 70th week.
                          How can you not believe that Jesus ended the old sacrifices with his own? If its not about Jesus its not about the 70th week.
                          Anyone who will take away sacrifices under the old cov at a future time cannot be all that bad and has something in common with what God has already done.
                          And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

                          Comment


                          • Re: The Preterist Gap

                            Originally posted by divaD View Post
                            I think I finally understand your position, or at least I understand it better than I initially did. I still disagree with your position since there was nothing involving the destruction of the 2nd temple that involved abominations.
                            Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
                            If you are referring to Titus, then your view also has a gap.
                            Titus was not in the the 70weeks; but was a prophecied (Jesus foretold), related result of the crucifixion in the midst of the 70th week.

                            Daniel mentions it as an associated resulting event, just as he mentions the end of the temple system forever (the consummation of time).

                            Comment


                            • Re: The Preterist Gap

                              Originally posted by divaD View Post
                              Do you agree with me, that if someone has Jesus fulfilling the middle of the week, followed by a gap, followed by the fulfillment of the remainder of verse 27, that they literally have a gap in the 70 weeks itself? Yet their position is, no gaps in the 70 weeks whatsoever. Like I have pointed out in the past, I'm willing to consider anything if it's at least logical. Nothing logical about claiming there are no gaps in the 70 weeks, then placing a gap in the 70th week, then continuing to insist there are no gaps in the 70 weeks.
                              I completely agree with you. The first half of v27 clearly deals with year 483 to year 486.5

                              The second half of v27 deals with the famous abomination and a man who dies at the end, also a well known 3.5 year period.

                              It would be far fetched if that isn't the final 3.5 year period of the 490, considering it's the last event in a chapter that would otherwise be missing 3.5 years

                              Comment


                              • Re: The Preterist Gap

                                Originally posted by David Taylor View Post
                                Titus was not in the the 70weeks; but was a prophecied (Jesus foretold), related result of the crucifixion in the midst of the 70th week.

                                Daniel mentions it as an associated resulting event, just as he mentions the end of the temple system forever (the consummation of time).
                                Interesting. Up until the cross, the 490 year period is still missing a final 3.5 year period. Then Dan 9:27 describes a final 3.5 year period at the very end on the chapter and some people can't see that it completes the 490 year period. And want to place it 40 years later.

                                Sure verse 26 is an aside, verse 27b is not an aside. It is the last verse in the chapter and completes the 490 year period by adding the required/missing 3.5 years. Anything else isn't logical considering Chapter 10 starts with a whole new subject.

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