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*ISAIAH AND THE NEW EARTH*

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  • #31
    Re: *ISAIAH AND THE NEW EARTH*

    Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
    If the leaders of the world run and hide from the Lamb at the 6th seal, I regard that as the visible second coming, fitting in with the end of the age described in Isaiah 2 when people hide from the presence of the Lord.

    Rev 6:
    hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their wrath has come

    Strangely many still do not realize that the 6th seal is the actual second coming, believing that God's wrath comes more than once in a dramatic earthquake and dramatic presence and the fear of the nations. I believe in one day of God's wrath, at the second coming.
    Revelation 6:12-17 does not say that people will see 'the face of Him who sits on the Throne.... They are afraid in case the One sees them!
    When Jesus Return, He will be riding a white horse, not sitting on a throne, as yet.

    Your belief of God's wrath happening at the Return is totally disproved by Revelation 15:1.....after the seven Plagues, the wrath of God is completed.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: *ISAIAH AND THE NEW EARTH*

      Originally posted by Keraz View Post
      Revelation 6:12-17 does not say that people will see 'the face of Him who sits on the Throne.... They are afraid in case the One sees them!
      When Jesus Return, He will be riding a white horse, not sitting on a throne, as yet.

      Your belief of God's wrath happening at the Return is totally disproved by Revelation 15:1.....after the seven Plagues, the wrath of God is completed.
      Regarding Rev 6, sure these things are open to interpretation. When I read the wording, I see that they are exposed to the presence of God, that is why they are terrified. It doesn't make sense to me that after the dramatic events of the 4th 5th and 6th seals that they just carry on with life after that, denying God.

      Rev 15:1 refers to the plagues, another description of God's wrath. God's wrath is described all over the OT and all over Revelation too. I don't see how that contradicts my position.

      The wrath occurs at the second coming, at the rapture:
      1 Thess 4/5 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: *ISAIAH AND THE NEW EARTH*

        Originally posted by journeyman View Post
        Yes I do, but not along with anyone or anything corrupted. When reading any passage where it appears the immortal and mortal live side by side, it can only mean those who presently have eternal life through Christ are living with those who don't.
        Jesus did live, as an uncorrupted human being, among corrupted human beings, right? As for belief in a Millennial world in which mortals and immortals live together, I agree--that's a tough call. Perhaps immortals will at that time appear as angels do in the present age?

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        • #34
          Re: *ISAIAH AND THE NEW EARTH*

          Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
          Yes we both agree that Jesus brought in righteousness, however you can't deny that the leaders of this world are corrupt and this will change at the second coming. This will be a physical literal change, and so we have prophecies about this future event.

          You may think that all the unsaved die at the second coming, I believe some nations live on because of many verses. This is because I take Zech 14 and many many other verses literally and you do not. The problem then is our methodology, I see prophecy as literal unless the symbols are obvious. When there is a lot of detail, I take the prophecy as literal, because I find that symbolising all the detail is really just making up stuff to fit one's preconceived notions.
          I have a question I would you to answer. If you didn't have faith in Jesus and he returned right now, would you be saved?

          Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
          Regarding "living waters", just because we have the living waters, does not mean that the land cant have it to.
          Just because we have the anointing , does not mean that Mt Zion cannot be anointed
          Just because we are the olive tree, does not mean there cannot be olive trees in future.
          Just because we are the house of God, does not mean other creatures and angels cannot also be the house of God
          Just because God inhabits living beings, does not imply that God cannot inhabit inanimate objects too, he is omnipresent.
          Mt. Zion, the City of God, the New Jerusalem, is the redeemed,

          thou shalt be called, The city of righteousness, the faithful city Isa.1:26

          And another question. When does God give the Holy Spirit to people after the return of Christ?

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: *ISAIAH AND THE NEW EARTH*

            Originally posted by marty fox View Post
            Amen I've been saying this for a while

            John 7:37-39
            37 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”[c] 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.
            Yes marty, the seed must be given before death, or the return of Christ, because what is sown is raised. What is planted comes to fruition. This was not at all apparent in OT prophecy where "God's people" are concerned, but we know it now.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: *ISAIAH AND THE NEW EARTH*

              Originally posted by journeyman View Post
              I have a question I would you to answer. If you didn't have faith in Jesus and he returned right now, would you be saved?

              Mt. Zion, the City of God, the New Jerusalem, is the redeemed,

              thou shalt be called, The city of righteousness, the faithful city Isa.1:26

              And another question. When does God give the Holy Spirit to people after the return of Christ?
              The answer to that question is no, it requires faith in Jesus to participate in the resurrection. Those that rise into the clouds to be with Jesus forever are the saved. We rule and judge over the nations during the millennium as per Rev 2:26-27 and 1 Cor 6:2-4 and Rev 20:4-5

              Multiple verses refer to the importance of Mt Zion and it's anointing in the next age, only 1000 years later does the NJ come to that location. So there are 2 especially anointed locations until the NJ comes to earth. The NJ above, and the sanctified Jerusalem on earth.

              Just by expressing your viewpoint, in no manner disproves my viewpoint as unbiblical.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: *ISAIAH AND THE NEW EARTH*

                Originally posted by randyk View Post
                Jesus did live, as an uncorrupted human being, among corrupted human beings, right?
                Yes brother, but he's returning as God almighty.

                Originally posted by randyk View Post
                As for belief in a Millennial world in which mortals and immortals live together, I agree--that's a tough call. Perhaps immortals will at that time appear as angels do in the present age?
                For what purpose? So the unsaved will come to faith in Jesus? He already came for that reason. The Bible prophesied that when Messiah comes, the earth will be filled with the knowledge of God and it is. Jesus isn't returning to teach summer school. He's coming in judgment (Rom.2:6, Rev.22:12).

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: *ISAIAH AND THE NEW EARTH*

                  Originally posted by journeyman View Post
                  Yes brother, but he's returning as God almighty.

                  For what purpose? So the unsaved will come to faith in Jesus? He already came for that reason. The Bible prophesied that when Messiah comes, the earth will be filled with the knowledge of God and it is. Jesus isn't returning to teach summer school. He's coming in judgment (Rom.2:6, Rev.22:12).
                  Amen

                  2 corr 6:2
                  For he says, "In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you." I tell you, now is the time of God's favor, now is the day of salvation.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: *ISAIAH AND THE NEW EARTH*

                    Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
                    Regarding Rev 6, sure these things are open to interpretation. When I read the wording, I see that they are exposed to the presence of God, that is why they are terrified. It doesn't make sense to me that after the dramatic events of the 4th 5th and 6th seals that they just carry on with life after that, denying God.

                    Rev 15:1 refers to the plagues, another description of God's wrath. God's wrath is described all over the OT and all over Revelation too. I don't see how that contradicts my position.

                    .[/I]
                    The people in Revelation 6:15-17 are every person alive on earth. They are terrified as the Lord sends His fiery wrath upon them. Many will die around the world, Jeremiah 25:33, but most will survive as they take shelter. [We too are warned; Isaiah 26:20-21]
                    THEN the people will just carry on as usual and say what happened was just a natural event. Proved by how the worlds people, excepting the faithful Christians, will worship the 'beast'. Revelation 13:14

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: *ISAIAH AND THE NEW EARTH*

                      Originally posted by Keraz View Post
                      The people in Revelation 6:15-17 are every person alive on earth. They are terrified as the Lord sends His fiery wrath upon them. Many will die around the world, Jeremiah 25:33, but most will survive as they take shelter. [We too are warned; Isaiah 26:20-21]
                      THEN the people will just carry on as usual and say what happened was just a natural event. Proved by how the worlds people, excepting the faithful Christians, will worship the 'beast'. Revelation 13:14
                      Okay, we definitely see it differently. The 3.5 years of the beast ends at the great earthquake, when the leaders of the world run and hide before the presence of God.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: *ISAIAH AND THE NEW EARTH*

                        Originally posted by journeyman View Post
                        Yes brother, but he's returning as God almighty.

                        For what purpose? So the unsaved will come to faith in Jesus? He already came for that reason. The Bible prophesied that when Messiah comes, the earth will be filled with the knowledge of God and it is. Jesus isn't returning to teach summer school. He's coming in judgment (Rom.2:6, Rev.22:12).
                        I think Grace and School continues for another thousand years, because the world and Israel have not yet seen a time when Satan is bound. That will be a time when knowledge will indeed be around the world. But the knowledge of God is around the world even now, and the Gospel is known throughout all nations. And yet people do not respond, and even rebel against it. I believe the purpose of the Church's rule in the coming age will be to keep evil angels at bay by decree. In reality, I just don't know.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: *ISAIAH AND THE NEW EARTH*

                          Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
                          We rule and judge over the nations during the millennium as per Rev 2:26-27 and 1 Cor 6:2-4 and Rev 20:4-5
                          Rev.2 and 1Cor.6 are speaking of being given "rule" to condemn, to destroy unbelievers, not to save anyone.

                          Rev.20:4-5 speaks of reigning with Christ for the purpose of salvation, as Jesus did when he walked on earth. It's reigning as Ambassadors for the King. That reign, by the love of God, is now.

                          Brother, the saints will never reign with Jesus by forcing unbelievers to obey him. The world thinks of ruling in terms of physical force and this misconception has infected Christian theology. Pontius Pilate thought he was ruling over Jesus. Pilate didn't know he was standing in the presence of his Creator. Pilate thought he had the power of life and death....over God. Seriously bro, think about that. Jesus said we can never die. Seriously, think about that kind of power.

                          Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
                          Multiple verses refer to the importance of Mt Zion and it's anointing in the next age, only 1000 years later does the NJ come to that location. So there are 2 especially anointed locations until the NJ comes to earth. The NJ above, and the sanctified Jerusalem on earth.
                          The New Jerusalem from above is the one on earth. It hasn't been transformed, or changed yet, but that doesn't matter. God appeared to mankind as a human being and proved his superiority over all. Jesus said,

                          He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Mk.16:16

                          Jesus isn't returning to save doubters.

                          Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
                          Just by expressing your viewpoint, in no manner disproves my viewpoint as unbiblical.
                          Jesus said,

                          He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. Jn.12:48

                          The words he spoke 2000 years ago will judge mankind, not words he will speak in the future. His resurrection is the sign he gave for salvation.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: *ISAIAH AND THE NEW EARTH*

                            Originally posted by randyk View Post
                            I think Grace and School continues for another thousand years, because the world and Israel have not yet seen a time when Satan is bound. That will be a time when knowledge will indeed be around the world. But the knowledge of God is around the world even now, and the Gospel is known throughout all nations. And yet people do not respond, and even rebel against it. I believe the purpose of the Church's rule in the coming age will be to keep evil angels at bay by decree. In reality, I just don't know.
                            Evil angels can't take a believers salvation away. They're bound. And when the gospel is preached and believed, Satan loses those who once belonged to him and there's nothing he can do about it.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: *ISAIAH AND THE NEW EARTH*

                              Originally posted by journeyman View Post
                              Rev.2 and 1Cor.6 are speaking of being given "rule" to condemn, to destroy unbelievers, not to save anyone.

                              Rev.20:4-5 speaks of reigning with Christ for the purpose of salvation, as Jesus did when he walked on earth. It's reigning as Ambassadors for the King. That reign, by the love of God, is now.

                              Brother, the saints will never reign with Jesus by forcing unbelievers to obey him. The world thinks of ruling in terms of physical force and this misconception has infected Christian theology. Pontius Pilate thought he was ruling over Jesus. Pilate didn't know he was standing in the presence of his Creator. Pilate thought he had the power of life and death....over God. Seriously bro, think about that. Jesus said we can never die. Seriously, think about that kind of power.

                              The New Jerusalem from above is the one on earth. It hasn't been transformed, or changed yet, but that doesn't matter. God appeared to mankind as a human being and proved his superiority over all. Jesus said,

                              He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Mk.16:16

                              Jesus isn't returning to save doubters.


                              Jesus said,

                              He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. Jn.12:48

                              The words he spoke 2000 years ago will judge mankind, not words he will speak in the future. His resurrection is the sign he gave for salvation.
                              Everything you have shared on this thread is Golden and rightly divided IMHO.
                              Thankyou and God bless you.
                              And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: *ISAIAH AND THE NEW EARTH*

                                Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                                Amen

                                2 corr 6:2
                                For he says, "In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you." I tell you, now is the time of God's favor, now is the day of salvation.
                                Amen. That is the gospel.

                                Comment

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