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  • No mortals survive the second coming able to populate a millennium

    Since many incorrectly believe there is a literal 1000 years after the coming of our Lord then they need to devise how the world will be populated. Hence they say some will survive the second coming and then enter in the 1000 year reign with Christ. What do the scriptures say and why is it impossible for any to survive?

    All the saints are first overcome by the beast

    Rev 13
    7 And it was given unto him (beast) to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

    All others opposed to the Beast are killed

    Rev 13
    15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

    Thus the only ones remaining at this time upon the earth are the ungodly whom all will be killed upon Christ's return. No one survived not accepting the Mark of the Beast.

    Those aligned with the Beast are all killed

    Luke 17
    29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
    30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

    NHNE occurs upon Christ's return

    2 PT 3
    10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

    IS 64
    2 As when the melting fire burneth, the fire causeth the waters to boil, to make thy name known to thine adversaries, that the nations may tremble at thy presence!

    Amos 9
    5 And the Lord God of hosts is he that toucheth the land, and it shall melt, and all that dwell therein shall mourn: and it shall rise up wholly like a flood; and shall be drowned, as by the flood of Egypt.

    Nahum
    5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.


    Christ comes as a flame of fire which will ignite this oil filled earth upon his return. Nothing living survives!

  • #2
    Re: No mortals survive the second coming able to populate a millennium

    Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
    Since many incorrectly believe there is a literal 1000 years after the coming of our Lord then they need to devise how the world will be populated. Hence they say some will survive the second coming and then enter in the 1000 year reign with Christ. What do the scriptures say and why is it impossible for any to survive?

    All the saints are first overcome by the beast

    Rev 13
    7 And it was given unto him (beast) to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

    All others opposed to the Beast are killed

    Rev 13
    15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

    Thus the only ones remaining at this time upon the earth are the ungodly whom all will be killed upon Christ's return. No one survived not accepting the Mark of the Beast.

    Those aligned with the Beast are all killed

    Luke 17
    29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
    30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

    NHNE occurs upon Christ's return

    2 PT 3
    10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

    IS 64
    2 As when the melting fire burneth, the fire causeth the waters to boil, to make thy name known to thine adversaries, that the nations may tremble at thy presence!

    Amos 9
    5 And the Lord God of hosts is he that toucheth the land, and it shall melt, and all that dwell therein shall mourn: and it shall rise up wholly like a flood; and shall be drowned, as by the flood of Egypt.

    Nahum
    5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.


    Christ comes as a flame of fire which will ignite this oil filled earth upon his return. Nothing living survives!
    Well said I agree it feels good to be on the same page eh LOL

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: No mortals survive the second coming able to populate a millennium

      Originally posted by marty fox View Post
      Well said I agree it feels good to be on the same page eh LOL
      Well at least on this subject.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: No mortals survive the second coming able to populate a millennium

        Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
        Since many incorrectly believe there is a literal 1000 years after the coming of our Lord then they need to devise how the world will be populated. Hence they say some will survive the second coming and then enter in the 1000 year reign with Christ. What do the scriptures say and why is it impossible for any to survive?

        All the saints are first overcome by the beast

        Rev 13
        7 And it was given unto him (beast) to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

        All others opposed to the Beast are killed

        Rev 13
        15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

        Thus the only ones remaining at this time upon the earth are the ungodly whom all will be killed upon Christ's return. No one survived not accepting the Mark of the Beast.

        Those aligned with the Beast are all killed

        Luke 17
        29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
        30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

        NHNE occurs upon Christ's return

        2 PT 3
        10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

        IS 64
        2 As when the melting fire burneth, the fire causeth the waters to boil, to make thy name known to thine adversaries, that the nations may tremble at thy presence!

        Amos 9
        5 And the Lord God of hosts is he that toucheth the land, and it shall melt, and all that dwell therein shall mourn: and it shall rise up wholly like a flood; and shall be drowned, as by the flood of Egypt.

        Nahum
        5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.


        Christ comes as a flame of fire which will ignite this oil filled earth upon his return. Nothing living survives!
        Then explain why Zech:14:5 plus Zech:16-19 tells us otherwise.

        and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee(Zechariah 14:5). This is clearly the 2nd coming. Compare to Jude 1:14-15.

        Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
        17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
        18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
        19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

        This is clearly meaning after verse 5 has been fulfilled. Clearly these are not the saved who put on immortality at the last trump, therefore these are unsaved mortal survivors.

        every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem....if that doesn't mean survivors, what does it mean then?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: No mortals survive the second coming able to populate a millennium

          Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
          Since many incorrectly believe there is a literal 1000 years after the coming of our Lord then they need to devise how the world will be populated. Hence they say some will survive the second coming and then enter in the 1000 year reign with Christ. What do the scriptures say and why is it impossible for any to survive?

          All the saints are first overcome by the beast

          Rev 13
          7 And it was given unto him (beast) to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

          All others opposed to the Beast are killed

          Rev 13
          15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

          Thus the only ones remaining at this time upon the earth are the ungodly whom all will be killed upon Christ's return. No one survived not accepting the Mark of the Beast.

          Those aligned with the Beast are all killed

          Luke 17
          29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
          30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

          NHNE occurs upon Christ's return

          2 PT 3
          10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

          IS 64
          2 As when the melting fire burneth, the fire causeth the waters to boil, to make thy name known to thine adversaries, that the nations may tremble at thy presence!

          Amos 9
          5 And the Lord God of hosts is he that toucheth the land, and it shall melt, and all that dwell therein shall mourn: and it shall rise up wholly like a flood; and shall be drowned, as by the flood of Egypt.

          Nahum
          5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.


          Christ comes as a flame of fire which will ignite this oil filled earth upon his return. Nothing living survives!
          If God's judgments were meant to be all-inclusive, you would be right. But I believe the language does not intend to be exhaustive in the destruction of mankind. The use of this kind of language is hyperbolic, indicating that the judgment is universal, but not exhaustive.

          As always, it is context that rules. If it is generally understood that not every individual is affected, we can use universal language without interpreting it to the extreme. For example, I can say right now that "people are dying all over the world" without meaning every individual human being is dying. It's *context* that determines how words apply in the way the speaker uses those words.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: No mortals survive the second coming able to populate a millennium

            Originally posted by randyk View Post
            If God's judgments were meant to be all-inclusive, you would be right. But I believe the language does not intend to be exhaustive in the destruction of mankind. The use of this kind of language is hyperbolic, indicating that the judgment is universal, but not exhaustive.

            As always, it is context that rules. If it is generally understood that not every individual is affected, we can use universal language without interpreting it to the extreme. For example, I can say right now that "people are dying all over the world" without meaning every individual human being is dying. It's *context* that determines how words apply in the way the speaker uses those words.
            I agree. Plus, if there are other Scriptures that contradict what the OP is concluding, we have to consider them as well. And so what if some of these other Scriptures are found in the OT. The OT is holy writ also, so we have to consider them as well, if the contexts support the 2nd coming and post the 2nd coming.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: No mortals survive the second coming able to populate a millennium

              Originally posted by divaD View Post
              I agree. Plus, if there are other Scriptures that contradict what the OP is concluding, we have to consider them as well. And so what if some of these other Scriptures are found in the OT. The OT is holy writ also, so we have to consider them as well, if the contexts support the 2nd coming and post the 2nd coming.
              Thank you. I omitted using the many references to universal-type language in the OT Scriptures. The examples are legion. I've had many of these kinds of discussions, and have given many examples. Anybody who has studied this subject should know it.

              To decide whether a particular passage refers to the death of every single mortal on earth or not, one must determine the context of the passage. We do know that one day the morality of all mankind will completely cease, without exception. When that takes place can only be determined by the context of the passage that deals with that subject.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: No mortals survive the second coming able to populate a millennium

                Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
                Since many incorrectly believe there is a literal 1000 years after the coming of our Lord then they need to devise how the world will be populated. Hence they say some will survive the second coming and then enter in the 1000 year reign with Christ. What do the scriptures say and why is it impossible for any to survive?

                All the saints are first overcome by the beast

                Rev 13
                7 And it was given unto him (beast) to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

                All others opposed to the Beast are killed

                Rev 13
                15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

                Thus the only ones remaining at this time upon the earth are the ungodly whom all will be killed upon Christ's return. No one survived not accepting the Mark of the Beast.

                Those aligned with the Beast are all killed

                Luke 17
                29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
                30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

                NHNE occurs upon Christ's return

                2 PT 3
                10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

                IS 64
                2 As when the melting fire burneth, the fire causeth the waters to boil, to make thy name known to thine adversaries, that the nations may tremble at thy presence!

                Amos 9
                5 And the Lord God of hosts is he that toucheth the land, and it shall melt, and all that dwell therein shall mourn: and it shall rise up wholly like a flood; and shall be drowned, as by the flood of Egypt.

                Nahum
                5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.


                Christ comes as a flame of fire which will ignite this oil filled earth upon his return. Nothing living survives!
                In response:

                1) New Earth, the Greek word Ge means land, not "planet earth"
                We will have new land at the second coming, not a new planet, this fits in with premill too

                2) Rev 13:15 seems to indicate all believers shall be killed, which can't be true, because in 1 Thess 4, and 1 Cor 15 and even Matt 24 we are shown that there will be living believers participating in the resurrection, not just dead believers. The dead in Christ will rise first. Then the living. All believers will not be dead. So v15 is probably referring to all those found out, caught in the act of not worshipping the beast. It's most likely local. For example during the dark ages, all witches were burnt at the stake. That comment is fair. Even though it only applies to those witches actually caught, and in Europe.

                3) Luke 17, the comparison with Lot, is comparing widespread physical death, with widespread spiritual death of missing the resurrection. It isn't comparing physical death with physical death. It is comparing physical death with being left behind:
                Remember Lot’s wife! 33 Whoever tries to keep their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left"

                4) Nahum1:5 in the NIV refers to them all trembling, not burning:
                The mountains quake before him and the hills melt away.
                The earth trembles at his PRESENCE, the world and all who live in it.

                There shall be surviving nations and a similar landscape left behind at the second coming, as per many verses.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: No mortals survive the second coming able to populate a millennium

                  Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
                  Since many incorrectly believe there is a literal 1000 years after the coming of our Lord then they need to devise how the world will be populated. Hence they say some will survive the second coming and then enter in the 1000 year reign with Christ. What do the scriptures say and why is it impossible for any to survive?

                  All the saints are first overcome by the beast

                  Rev 13
                  7 And it was given unto him (beast) to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

                  All others opposed to the Beast are killed

                  Rev 13
                  15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

                  Thus the only ones remaining at this time upon the earth are the ungodly whom all will be killed upon Christ's return. No one survived not accepting the Mark of the Beast.

                  Those aligned with the Beast are all killed

                  Luke 17
                  29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
                  30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

                  NHNE occurs upon Christ's return

                  2 PT 3
                  10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

                  IS 64
                  2 As when the melting fire burneth, the fire causeth the waters to boil, to make thy name known to thine adversaries, that the nations may tremble at thy presence!

                  Amos 9
                  5 And the Lord God of hosts is he that toucheth the land, and it shall melt, and all that dwell therein shall mourn: and it shall rise up wholly like a flood; and shall be drowned, as by the flood of Egypt.

                  Nahum
                  5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.


                  Christ comes as a flame of fire which will ignite this oil filled earth upon his return. Nothing living survives!
                  You have confused the Great Day of the Lord's fiery wrath with the glorious Return of Jesus.
                  They are two separate days; years apart. This is shown in Revelation 6: 12-17 -the Day of the Lord's wrath and then in Revelation 16:14 & 19:11-21, the Great Day of Almighty God.

                  There will be many deaths on the Day of fiery wrath, Jeremiah 25:33, Isaiah 34:1-6, + , and the Middle East area will be virtually depopulated. Hosea 4:3, Ezekiel 30"1-5, Jeremiah 12:14
                  This will be the fulfilment of Deuteronomy 32:34-43, when the Lord Himself will clear and cleanse all of the holy Land. This will enable His people, every faithful Christian to go and live there, all as plainly prophesied and what Gad always wanted, but has never yet had; a people who would be His witnesses, Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27 and His Light to the nations, Isaiah 49:3-8, Matthew 5:14-16

                  When Jesus does Return, He will destroy the attacking armies by the Sword of His Word, not by fire; as the bodies remain for the birds to feast upon. Revelation 19:17-21

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: No mortals survive the second coming able to populate a millennium

                    Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
                    Since many incorrectly believe there is a literal 1000 years after the coming of our Lord then they need to devise how the world will be populated. Hence they say some will survive the second coming and then enter in the 1000 year reign with Christ. What do the scriptures say and why is it impossible for any to survive?

                    All the saints are first overcome by the beast

                    Rev 13
                    7 And it was given unto him (beast) to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

                    All others opposed to the Beast are killed

                    Rev 13
                    15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

                    Thus the only ones remaining at this time upon the earth are the ungodly whom all will be killed upon Christ's return. No one survived not accepting the Mark of the Beast.

                    Those aligned with the Beast are all killed

                    Luke 17
                    29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
                    30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

                    NHNE occurs upon Christ's return

                    2 PT 3
                    10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

                    IS 64
                    2 As when the melting fire burneth, the fire causeth the waters to boil, to make thy name known to thine adversaries, that the nations may tremble at thy presence!

                    Amos 9
                    5 And the Lord God of hosts is he that toucheth the land, and it shall melt, and all that dwell therein shall mourn: and it shall rise up wholly like a flood; and shall be drowned, as by the flood of Egypt.

                    Nahum
                    5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.


                    Christ comes as a flame of fire which will ignite this oil filled earth upon his return. Nothing living survives!
                    Usually opponents will bring competing scriptures, which, while they can point in the right direction, do little to instill confidence in the Bible. A brother or sister who uses one scripture against another unwittingly declares one or more contradictions in scripture. So let us examine your proffered scriptures to see if they say what you maintain.

                    Revelation 13:7 does not indicate death but DOMINION. Ephesians Chapter 6 gives a battle in which no one dies, but in which one or another principality rules because of strength. So this verse cannot be used to show annihilation by any means. And seeing as Revelation 12 gives those with the testimony of Jesus fleeing and being helped by the earth, and Revelation 7 gives this huge crowd as having passed through the Great Tribulation, annihilation is certainly not even hinted at.

                    Revelation 13:15 gives the death of any opposer of the Beast, his image and/or his mark. But the vaste majority of men and women obey, worship and take the mark of the Beast. But then you draw a conclusion that all who took the mark and worshiped the Beast and his image are slaughtered by the Lord at His coming. But for THIS you give NO scripture. The scripture that applies here does not allude or even hint at slaughter. They are caused to enter the Lake of Fire. This they do ALIVE, and their torment never ends. Revelation 14:9-11 says;

                    9 "And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
                    10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
                    11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name."


                    And these people are so near to the rest of men that "we look upon them" in Isaiah 66:24.

                    The great slaughter of men at Christ's Second Coming is limited to Armageddon and Bozrah in Edom. This is a military battle and most will agree that an army has a large "tooth-to-tail-ratio" - that is the amount of non-combat personnel who supply the combatants. Armageddon, though a huge battle with the blood running up to the bridles of the horses, will probably need 8 logistical personnel to one soldier. It is estimated roughly that tow thirds of the world's population will die in the Great Tribulation. One third is still nearly 2 billion people. If half of these are adults and the tooth-to-tail-ration is 8 to 1, Armageddon will kill 15% of 1 billion people, leaving 1.85 billion people over.

                    But even more exact than this speculative number is the Judgement of Christ over the NATIONS in Matthew 25:31-46. This guarantees a huge hoard of ALL nations still alive after Armageddon.

                    Luke 17:28-32 emphasizes the suddenness and stealth of the Day of the Lord, not the annihilation of the world's population. Survivors are a given. Lot and the female family members survived. Sodom and Gomorrah were not the only cities of the well watered plain. Zoar survived. In this text from Luke there are other survivors - those who flee in verse 31.

                    28 "Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
                    29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
                    30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
                    31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
                    32 Remember Lot's wife."


                    2nd Peter 3:10 will only meet your criteria if it is given a value under 1,000 years. But to do this you would be privately interpreting scripture. The Day of the Lord could be one 24 hour period, but what is definitely said is that (1) the Millennium is as a Day (verse 8) and (2) the Day of the Lord's return to earth is a "Sabbath Rest". The first Sabbath was the day in which Adam died and he lived 930 years. All indicators point to the "Day of the Lord" as an extended period - the Millennium.

                    The remaining verses do not mention total annihilation. Thus, without pitting any other scripture against your verses, I have showed them to NOt to mean what you would like. The earth's population will probably be around the 1.5 billion mark at the beginning of the Millennium, and seeing as (1) there will be very little murder, (2) no war, (3) no pestilence and (4) men will live long lives (a person is still a babe at 100 years - Isa.65:20), the earth's population will explode during the Millennium. Because of the massive harvests this will be no problem.

                    The earth will be richly populated from about 1.5 billion to tens of billions in the Millennium.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: No mortals survive the second coming able to populate a millennium

                      I like how much this forum discusses the Endtimes and then goes further as to challenge what and why we believe what we believe. Thank you for another great post!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: No mortals survive the second coming able to populate a millennium

                        It's simple really. When Christ returns, all the raptured saints are with Him:
                        "You will flee by the valley of My mountains, for the valley of the mountains will reach to Azel; yes, you will flee just as you fled before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD, my God, will come, and all the holy ones with Him!"—Zechariah 14:5.
                        "And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war. His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses."—Revelation 19:11-14.
                        "Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, 'These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?' I said to him, 'My lord, you know.' And he said to me, 'These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.' "—Revelation 7:13-14.

                        Unless I've missed your point ross. In which case feel free to correct me.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: No mortals survive the second coming able to populate a millennium

                          Originally posted by divaD View Post
                          Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
                          17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
                          18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
                          19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

                          every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem....if that doesn't mean survivors, what does it mean then?
                          Zech 14
                          2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle;

                          12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

                          So all nations are gathered and all people are consumed so there can be no know one left "living".

                          14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem;

                          So then does Judah survive and enter mortally into a 1000 year reign? No.

                          The word "left" does not necessarily mean "living. I understand our minds first interpret such however when taken in context "left" would mean "believers remaining upon the resurrection" while all others being cast away. Nobody survives the first death but can survive, left, remain upon the second.

                          Now of course some may reply there is no Feast of Tabernacles in eternity thus proving it must be a millennium. But then that takes us back the millennium debate.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: No mortals survive the second coming able to populate a millennium

                            [QUOTE]
                            Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
                            2) Rev 13:15 seems to indicate all believers shall be killed, which can't be true, because in 1 Thess 4, and 1 Cor 15 and even Matt 24 we are shown that there will be living believers participating in the resurrection, not just dead believers. The dead in Christ will rise first. Then the living. All believers will not be dead.
                            First you can't be resurrected unless you die. So 1 Cor 15 speaks of a resurrection of the dead not living. Mat 24? Concerning 1 Thess 4 "those which are alive and remain" are those dead made alive upon the resurrection and remain (ie left) as the others have been cast away.

                            There shall be surviving nations and a similar landscape left behind at the second coming, as per many verses.
                            Can you post those verses?

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                            • #15
                              Re: No mortals survive the second coming able to populate a millennium

                              Originally posted by Keraz View Post
                              You have confused the Great Day of the Lord's fiery wrath with the glorious Return of Jesus.
                              They are two separate days; years apart. This is shown in Revelation 6: 12-17 -the Day of the Lord's wrath and then in Revelation 16:14 & 19:11-21, the Great Day of Almighty God.
                              Rev 6
                              12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
                              13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind

                              Same event in Matt 24
                              29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
                              30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

                              So then are you saying that between verses 29 and 30 in Matt 24 that events between Rev 6 up till Rev 16 all occur? I do think so. Both Rev 6 and Rev 16 culminate in the same day.

                              When Jesus does Return, He will destroy the attacking armies by the Sword of His Word, not by fire; as the bodies remain for the birds to feast upon. Revelation 19:17-21
                              Does not mean they can't be a fire roasted delight

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