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Who and what is the antichrist?

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  • #16
    Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

    What I am showing here is that a lot of the churches teaches traditional teaching and not actually what the bible teaches and most people believe it. If we take time and study it for ourselves we will see the truth.

    The truth is that John who was the only person in the bible to mention the antichrist and tell us who he is is not the sea beast of Revelation or the man of sin.

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    • #17
      Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

      Originally posted by marty fox View Post
      I don't separate them John did I'm just conveying what John taught. John taught that they are different and have different purposes one diverts people from God to the other
      I hear you that it could be a spirit, but in addition the wording does refer to the person as the antichrist. So there is no problem referring to a person as the antichrist.

      "" Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist""

      And there were some false Messiahs in the first century, that could match the antichrists, but a future one is also mentioned in 1 John2:18

      Do you have any evidence that future antichrist is historical, rather than still future?

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      • #18
        Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

        Originally posted by marty fox View Post
        Sorry but maybe I'm not understanding what you are trying to convey.
        No need to offer me an apology, I'm not offended for one, and two, any error here is not a salvation breaker for either of our points of view.



        Originally posted by marty fox View Post
        The man of sin is not the biblical description of the antichrist its the description of the beast
        I disagree, well, disagree only because there are a literal book full with the use of the term "beast" in our bibles.



        Originally posted by marty fox View Post
        The antichrist description is more like the false prophet who unlike the true prophets diverts people from the truth to the lie
        Agreed !



        Peace
        Don't seek too much knowledge. You just may be putting more weight on your shoulders than you're able to bare.
        Let God be the one to decide how quickly you grow

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        • #19
          Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

          Originally Posted by marty fox
          The man of sin is not the biblical description of the antichrist its the description of the beast

          Jacobs ladder said
          I disagree, well, disagree only because there are a literal book full with the use of the term "beast" in our bibles.
          Your right I meant the sea beast of Revelation.

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          • #20
            Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

            Another point of mine in this thread is that we can't through all of the descriptions of the man of sin the beast the antichrist or the little horn into one character

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

              I hear you that it could be a spirit, but in addition the wording does refer to the person as the antichrist. So there is no problem referring to a person as the antichrist.
              Why do you say could be a spirit when John says that it is a spirit?

              It doesn't say the person it says such person as in its not just one person but many.

              And there were some false Messiahs in the first century, that could match the antichrists, but a future one is also mentioned in 1 John2:18
              Is not that some could match the antichrist some did match the antichrist

              1 John 2:22
              22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichristódenying the Father and the Son.

              1 John 4:3
              3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

              2 John 1:7
              I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

              The three verses above is the exact description of apostate Israel in the first century from the Pharisees to Paul before his conversion. I am not saying that the antichrist spirit is complete in apostate Israel but they were who John was talking about. The leadership in apostate Israel were suppose to direct Israel to Jesus their Messiah but instead the rejected and killed their true Messiah and had the Jewish people claim that they have no king but Cesar.


              Do you have any evidence that future antichrist is historical, rather than still future?

              1 John 2:18-19
              18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

              What John is talking about here is not a future beast style antichrist leader but the deceiving spirit of antichrist within the church causing a falling away. This antichrist spirit is still active today turning people away from Jesus especially in the house of Israel.

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              • #22
                Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

                Originally posted by marty fox View Post

                The man of sin is not the biblical description of the antichrist its the description of the beast
                The man of sin is Paul's term for the AC. The AC is the second beast not the first beast of Rev 13. His "name" in Rev is the false prophet.
                James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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                • #23
                  Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

                  Originally posted by marty fox View Post

                  What John is talking about here is not a future beast style antichrist leader but the deceiving spirit of antichrist within the church causing a falling away.
                  And the only person who wrote of the "falling away" was Paul and he attributed that to the man of sin who you are saying is the AC spirit which still makes the "man of sin" the one we normally call the Antichrist. I am only using your own wording to connect antichrist to the man of sin. I don't agree the final fulfillment of Antichrist is just a spirit but that isn't important for the small point I am making.

                  The names of the one we normally call the Antichrist:

                  1st and 2nd John -antichrist
                  2 Thessalonians -man of sin
                  2 Thessalonians -that Wicked
                  2 Thessalonians -the son of perdition
                  Daniel -little horn
                  Revelation -false prophet

                  Many names but he is still the same person.
                  James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

                    Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                    The man of sin is Paul's term for the AC. The AC is the second beast not the first beast of Rev 13. His "name" in Rev is the false prophet.
                    Although I agree with you that the antichrist is more like the second beast the false prophet the man of sin Paul talked about does not describe the antichrist John mentions.

                    What we need to stop doing is using the term antichrist to the first beast the man of sin and the little horn because the only description of the antichrist in the bible is nothing like them

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                    • #25
                      Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

                      Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                      And the only person who wrote of the "falling away" was Paul and he attributed that to the man of sin who you are saying is the AC spirit which still makes the "man of sin" the one we normally call the Antichrist. I am only using your own wording to connect antichrist to the man of sin. I don't agree the final fulfillment of Antichrist is just a spirit but that isn't important for the small point I am making.

                      The names of the one we normally call the Antichrist:

                      1st and 2nd John -antichrist
                      2 Thessalonians -man of sin
                      2 Thessalonians -that Wicked
                      2 Thessalonians -the son of perdition
                      Daniel -little horn
                      Revelation -false prophet

                      Many names but he is still the same person.
                      That is not correct John talks about a great falling away in 1 John 2.

                      I didnít say that the man of sin is the antichrist I actually said that he isnít the antichrist but the man of sin comes during the great falling away which was happening in Johnís day

                      The antichrist is a spirit within people not just a spirit

                      He is not the same person because John describes him different the antichrist is like the false prophet but nothing like the beast or the man of sin or the little horn

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

                        Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                        Although I agree with you that the antichrist is more like the second beast the false prophet the man of sin Paul talked about does not describe the antichrist John mentions.

                        What we need to stop doing is using the term antichrist to the first beast the man of sin and the little horn because the only description of the antichrist in the bible is nothing like them
                        There is no description of the AC by John except in Rev where the term isn't used. All he said is Antichrist was coming. Paul described the AC and what he will do, but he uses dif terms for the guy which is what Christ did in Rev also not using the term AC but the same guy is mentioned just as he is mentioned in Daniel.
                        James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

                          Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                          That is not correct John talks about a great falling away in 1 John 2.
                          Which verse?


                          The antichrist is a spirit within people not just a spirit
                          Yes and there is also an Antichrist which is a person who was future when John wrote of him. That is the last and final AC that all others were only limited imitations of.

                          He is not the same person because John describes him different the antichrist is like the false prophet but nothing like the beast or the man of sin or the little horn
                          I disagree. Many wrote of the AC using various names and gave us various details of him and what he will do. They all were talking about one certain person who will rule the world and persecute Christians during what is known as the great tribulation and when it ends Christ will return.
                          James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

                            Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                            There is no description of the AC by John except in Rev where the term isn't used. All he said is Antichrist was coming. Paul described the AC and what he will do, but he uses dif terms for the guy which is what Christ did in Rev also not using the term AC but the same guy is mentioned just as he is mentioned in Daniel.
                            You need to reread the OP John describes exactly what the antichrist is. The problem is that the church misuses the term antichrist and ties it to something it isnít

                            Remember only John uses the term antichrist in his epistles so the antichrist is only what John describes

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

                              Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                              Which verse?




                              Yes and there is also an Antichrist which is a person who was future when John wrote of him. That is the last and final AC that all others were only limited imitations of.



                              I disagree. Many wrote of the AC using various names and gave us various details of him and what he will do. They all were talking about one certain person who will rule the world and persecute Christians during what is known as the great tribulation and when it ends Christ will return.
                              1 John 2:18-19
                              18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

                              The antichrist is only what John says it is and it only does what John says it does much like the false prophet

                              What Paul,Daniel and John in revelation wrote about are beast which serve other purposes like concurring nations demanding to be worshipped as God destroying Babylon the great and persecuting the church

                              Do you see what I am saying because itís exactly what the bible says?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

                                Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                                You need to reread the OP John describes exactly what the antichrist is.
                                No, he describes the shadows and types of the AC but gets to the singular person called Antichrist but says almost nothing about him. He is told more by Christ in Rev about this same person and Paul was given a lot of knowledge on him and of course I think Daniel was the first to ever write of him.


                                The problem is that the church misuses the term antichrist and ties it to something it isn’t
                                They get some things wrong but for the most part it's correct. A person is coming who will rule the world and persecute Christians and the return of Christ will end his reign and he will be destroyed. It's more complex that that but that's the basic gist of it. I know you see it vastly different.

                                Remember only John uses the term antichrist in his epistles so the antichrist is only what John describes
                                That is irrelevant. The same person can be referred to by multiple names just like Christ is who is Jesus, and the Lamb and God the Son and so on. That's no more 4 different people than all the names for the AC are different people.
                                James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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