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  • #31
    Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

    Originally posted by marty fox View Post
    1 John 2:18-19
    18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

    The antichrist is only what John says it is and it only does what John says it does much like the false prophet
    Yeah well Paul says the man of sin causes the future Apostasy called the "falling away" in the KJV. People fall away all the time and many times some type of AC caused it but both John and Paul write of a person that is to come who will cause people to fall away from Christ.

    What Paul,Daniel and John in revelation wrote about are beast which serve other purposes like concurring nations demanding to be worshipped as God destroying Babylon the great and persecuting the church
    They all wrote of the same person who will do various things all in the same period known as the GT. Claiming to be God, causing Christian to worship him instead of Christ, persecuting Christians that refuse...all the same person.


    Do you see what I am saying because it’s exactly what the bible says?
    No, I think you have your own private interpretation that you believe in but I see no support for it in any scriptures so far. No judgment in that I just don't see validation for your interpretation. IMO you are dividing all the passages that speak of the AC and making it like these are speaking of different people and the AC really doesn't do what I believe the bible says he will be doing one day. So, IMO your view waters down the AC into lesser things. Again, not intending offense on anything.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

      No, he describes the shadows and types of the AC but gets to the singular person called Antichrist but says almost nothing about him. He is told more by Christ in Rev about this same person and Paul was given a lot of knowledge on him and of course I think Daniel was the first to ever write of him.
      Itís not shadows and types he says that it is already in the world more than once.

      They get some things wrong but for the most part it's correct. A person is coming who will rule the world and persecute Christians and the return of Christ will end his reign and he will be destroyed. It's more complex that that but that's the basic gist of it. I know you see it vastly different.
      But what John describes and calls the antichrist is not the same character of the one you described you described the beast

      That is irrelevant. The same person can be referred to by multiple names just like Christ is who is Jesus, and the Lamb and God the Son and so on. That's no more 4 different people than all the names for the AC are different people.
      You just called John teachings irrelevant John wrote those words for a reason

      Johnís description of the antichrist is not the person described in the book of revelation

      We need to stop getting hung up on names and titles and get hung up on personalities to figure out the truth

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

        Yeah well Paul says the man of sin causes the future Apostasy called the "falling away" in the KJV. People fall away all the time and many times some type of AC caused it but both John and Paul write of a person that is to come who will cause people to fall away from Christ.
        2 thes 2:3-4
        3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

        4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

        No, I think you have your own private interpretation that you believe in but I see no support for it in any scriptures so far. No judgment in that I just don't see validation for your interpretation. IMO you are dividing all the passages that speak of the AC and making it like these are speaking of different people and the AC really doesn't do what I believe the bible says he will be doing one day. So, IMO your view waters down the AC into lesser things. Again, not intending offense on anything.
        No offence taken but turning people from Jesus to a false god isnít watering down to lesser things itís worse that persecuting the saints and satan would rather the deception over the persecution

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

          Originally posted by marty fox View Post
          2 thes 2:3-4
          3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

          4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.



          No offence taken but turning people from Jesus to a false god isnít watering down to lesser things itís worse that persecuting the saints and satan would rather the deception over the persecution
          I meant to say Paul didnít actually say that the man of sin causes the falling away in 2 Thessalonians 2 just that itís at the same time and the man of sin declares himself god

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

            Originally posted by marty fox View Post
            It’s not shadows and types he says that it is already in the world more than once.
            That's what shadows and types are...they precede the final form or fulfillment of something.


            But what John describes and calls the antichrist is not the same character of the one you described you described the beast
            Same person.


            You just called John teachings irrelevant John wrote those words for a reason
            No, I called your point irrelevant.

            John’s description of the antichrist is not the person described in the book of revelation
            There is no description of him by John until John wrote Rev. All John said is AC is coming...nothing else about him.
            James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

              Originally posted by marty fox View Post
              I meant to say Paul didn’t actually say that the man of sin causes the falling away in 2 Thessalonians 2 just that it’s at the same time and the man of sin declares himself god
              That's what draws people from Christ to this false God. He will actually claim to be Christ which is why it works so well. Too many Christians are not prepared to face someone who claims to be Jesus and is a very good imitation. Antichrist, the anti part can mean opposing but also can mean an imitation.
              James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

                Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                There are only four verses in the entire bible that uses the word antichrist

                1 John 2:18
                18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.

                1 John 2:22
                22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichristódenying the Father and the Son.

                1 John 4:3
                3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

                2 John 1:7
                I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

                Many Christians believe that the antichrist will be the future evil world ruler of the book of Revelation who will rule the world during the end times but is that what the bible actually teaches?

                It is interesting that John the disciple who wrote the four verses mentioning the word antichrist was the same John who wrote the book of Revelation. It is also interesting that John didnít use the word antichrist at all in the book of Revelation. Why would this be? Could it be that the antichrist John wrote about in his epistles is different from one most Christians believe to be the antichrist in the book of Revelation?

                John used the word beast to describe the evil persecuting world leader in the book of Revelation but its description and character is much different from the description and character of the antichrist. The beast is described as a ten horned seven headed creature who rules the world and persecutes the saints which is much different than the antichrist.

                Letís look at how John describes the antichrist.

                1 John 2:18-27
                18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

                20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.[e] 21 I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichristódenying the Father and the Son. 23 No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

                24 As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is what he promised usóeternal life.
                26 I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeitójust as it has taught you, remain in him.

                John is showing us that the antichrist isnít just one person but many people. John is also stating that the antichrist was present before, after and during his day. John also states that the antichrist is leading people astray and that it is the opposite of truth and John tells us in the verse below that Jesus is truth

                John 14:6
                6 Jesus answered, ďI am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

                This antichrist who John says is a liar is antichrist because it is the opposite of truth which is Jesus who is the Christ.
                Letís look at what else John says is the antichrist.

                1 John 4:1-6
                1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

                4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5 They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit[a] of truth and the spirit of falsehood

                Again John tells us that the antichrist is not just one but many. John tells us again that the antichrist was present in his day John also tells us that the antichrist is not just people but it is actually a spirit.

                Letís take a look at the last time that John mentions the word antichrist.

                2 John 1:4-11
                4 It has given me great joy to find some of your children walking in the truth, just as the Father commanded us. 5 And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had from the beginning. I ask that we love one another. 6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

                7 I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist 8 Watch out that you do not lose what we[a] have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. 9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. 11 Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work.

                John tells us once again that the antichrist isnít just one but many. John then goes on to say that this antichrist is the deceiving spirit who denies that Jesus Christ came in the flesh meaning that the Man Jesus is the Christ the anointed one the Messiah the son of God.

                When we read all four verses that uses the word antichrist it seems that he was meaning apostate Israel in his day. Apostate Israel was active when John wrote these words and they denied that Jesus was the Christ by denying Jesus they also denied the Father. Antichrist is not complete in apostate Israel but they do fit the description John gave in his day.

                The antichrist is much different from the sea beast of the book of Revelation. The sea beast purpose is to rule the earth to be worshipped as god, destroy Babylon the great and to try to wipeout the church. The antichrist purpose to deceive and to divert people away from the Messiah Jesus the Christ. The antichrist is more like the land beast from the book of Revelation also known as the false prophet.

                In conclusion John teaches in the bible that the antichrist is not a future evil world leader but a deceiving spirit within many people who was present in Johnís day and whose purpose was to divert people away from the true Messiah Jesus the Christ.
                You conflate anti-christ spirit and THAT ANTI-CHRIST.

                Question, how can there be an ETERNAL Holy God without an ETERNAL Evil Spirit ? Its so obvious their has to be an ANTI-God Spirit that is evil, and that just means the opposite of God. This Evil Spirit ENTICED Lucifer, in his heart he said I will be like the most high God etc. etc. etc. So Anti-christ means the same since Jesus is God, it means the same ETERNAL Evil Spirit that has always been, it deceived 1/3 of the Angels and millions and millions of humans.

                But THAT Anti-Christ points to the Man of Sin, the Little Horn person, or the Assyrian. The Anti-Christ, which he is, is just a way to incorporate all the names for this MAN into one name. He is the Beast from the Sea in Rev. 13, thus the CROWNS are on the 10 Horns, the 10 Kings remember freely give their power unto him. The Rev. 12 Beast with 7 CROWNS is Satan/Dragon. Its two different entities DEALINGS with the Mediterranean Sea Power Structure down through the Ages. Satan is over all 7 in the region, of course, whereas the Beast/Little Horn of Rev. 13 is only over the 10 Kings, he is the 7th Head that Satan is over.....WATCH.....Rev. 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

                So the FIGURATIVE Beast with 7 Heads was Greece, Babylon, Persia and Rome who had a Mortal Wound {#6} then after 2000 years of going back into the Sea or being Wounded, the Man of Sin/Anti-Christ/Little Horn defeats Israel and the whole Mediterranean Sea Region to ARISE as the 7th Head of this FIGURATIVE Beast of the Mediterranean Sea Region. Israel has to be an ENTITY for their to be a Beast in God's eyes, and God stated Israel would be as Dead Men's Bones until the END TIMES {1948}.

                The Scarlet Colored Beast with NO CROWNS in Rev. 17 is Apollyon, whom God placed over the Mediterranean Sea Region to try and Destroy Israel it seems, hence the Destroyer. After Rome, God placed him in the Bottomless Pit until the 1st Woe, thus HE WAS.............IS NOT...............YET IS. He was the prince of Persia that resisted Micheal/God for 21 days when God wanted Alexander the Great to Conquer Persia.

                So the Anti-Christ IS the Little Horn/Man of Sin/Assyrian who becomes the Beast when he Conquers Israel/Jerusalem AND the MANY Nations of the Mediterranean Sea Region.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

                  Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                  Why do you say could be a spirit when John says that it is a spirit?

                  It doesn't say the person it says such person as in its not just one person but many.



                  Is not that some could match the antichrist some did match the antichrist

                  1 John 2:22
                  22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichristódenying the Father and the Son.

                  1 John 4:3
                  3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

                  2 John 1:7
                  I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

                  The three verses above is the exact description of apostate Israel in the first century from the Pharisees to Paul before his conversion. I am not saying that the antichrist spirit is complete in apostate Israel but they were who John was talking about. The leadership in apostate Israel were suppose to direct Israel to Jesus their Messiah but instead the rejected and killed their true Messiah and had the Jewish people claim that they have no king but Cesar.





                  1 John 2:18-19
                  18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

                  What John is talking about here is not a future beast style antichrist leader but the deceiving spirit of antichrist within the church causing a falling away. This antichrist spirit is still active today turning people away from Jesus especially in the house of Israel.
                  You do agree that people were antichrists
                  1 John 2:22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichristódenying the Father and the Son.

                  And you also acknowledge there will be future antichrists.

                  These are the exact reasons why I see no problem with also labeling the man of sin as the antichrist.

                  you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

                    Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
                    You do agree that people were antichrists
                    1 John 2:22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichristódenying the Father and the Son.

                    And you also acknowledge there will be future antichrists.

                    These are the exact reasons why I see no problem with also labeling the man of sin as the antichrist.

                    you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come.
                    The antichrist spirit will always be around within people

                    The man of sin can't be the antichrist because they have completely different personalities and purposes one deceives and the other destroys. We need to not focus on the title antichrist and separate the two to better understand Revelation.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

                      Originally posted by Revelation Man View Post
                      You conflate anti-christ spirit and THAT ANTI-CHRIST.

                      Question, how can there be an ETERNAL Holy God without an ETERNAL Evil Spirit ? Its so obvious their has to be an ANTI-God Spirit that is evil, and that just means the opposite of God. This Evil Spirit ENTICED Lucifer, in his heart he said I will be like the most high God etc. etc. etc. So Anti-christ means the same since Jesus is God, it means the same ETERNAL Evil Spirit that has always been, it deceived 1/3 of the Angels and millions and millions of humans.

                      But THAT Anti-Christ points to the Man of Sin, the Little Horn person, or the Assyrian. The Anti-Christ, which he is, is just a way to incorporate all the names for this MAN into one name. He is the Beast from the Sea in Rev. 13, thus the CROWNS are on the 10 Horns, the 10 Kings remember freely give their power unto him. The Rev. 12 Beast with 7 CROWNS is Satan/Dragon. Its two different entities DEALINGS with the Mediterranean Sea Power Structure down through the Ages. Satan is over all 7 in the region, of course, whereas the Beast/Little Horn of Rev. 13 is only over the 10 Kings, he is the 7th Head that Satan is over.....WATCH.....Rev. 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

                      So the FIGURATIVE Beast with 7 Heads was Greece, Babylon, Persia and Rome who had a Mortal Wound {#6} then after 2000 years of going back into the Sea or being Wounded, the Man of Sin/Anti-Christ/Little Horn defeats Israel and the whole Mediterranean Sea Region to ARISE as the 7th Head of this FIGURATIVE Beast of the Mediterranean Sea Region. Israel has to be an ENTITY for their to be a Beast in God's eyes, and God stated Israel would be as Dead Men's Bones until the END TIMES {1948}.

                      The Scarlet Colored Beast with NO CROWNS in Rev. 17 is Apollyon, whom God placed over the Mediterranean Sea Region to try and Destroy Israel it seems, hence the Destroyer. After Rome, God placed him in the Bottomless Pit until the 1st Woe, thus HE WAS.............IS NOT...............YET IS. He was the prince of Persia that resisted Micheal/God for 21 days when God wanted Alexander the Great to Conquer Persia.

                      So the Anti-Christ IS the Little Horn/Man of Sin/Assyrian who becomes the Beast when he Conquers Israel/Jerusalem AND the MANY Nations of the Mediterranean Sea Region.
                      Are you claiming that Michael is Jesus?

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

                        Originally posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
                        True, but there is a huge difference between a spirit (in this case the spirit of anti-christ) influencing/coming-upon men -vs- inhabiting/possessing a man.

                        What I mean is: The future man-of-sin/anti-christ will be inhabited -vs- influenced

                        Wouldn't you agree ?


                        .
                        Hooah. It is ultimately satan's last effort of imitating all that God does. When a person accepts Jesus, the Holy Spirit indwells them and takes up residence in the believer. Well, concerning "the" anti-christ revealed in the scriptures concerning the period of the Tribulation, satan will do the same. This spirit isn't some demon oppressing or possessing for the purpose of destroying any given person. The anti-christ is a person fully "indwelled" by satan and thus, fully empowered to do as satan needs.

                        Just as any given Christian is empowered to do as God needs.

                        It's all satan's continued efforts (but then, the last effort) of pretending to be God.
                        Slug1--out

                        ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

                          Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
                          Hooah. It is ultimately satan's last effort of imitating all that God does. When a person accepts Jesus, the Holy Spirit indwells them and takes up residence in the believer. Well, concerning "the" anti-christ revealed in the scriptures concerning the period of the Tribulation, satan will do the same. This spirit isn't some demon oppressing or possessing for the purpose of destroying any given person. The anti-christ is a person fully "indwelled" by satan and thus, fully empowered to do as satan needs.

                          Just as any given Christian is empowered to do as God needs.

                          It's all satan's continued efforts (but then, the last effort) of pretending to be God.
                          Yes, I see it in the same way Slug1.
                          Don't seek too much knowledge. You just may be putting more weight on your shoulders than you're able to bare.
                          Let God be the one to decide how quickly you grow

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

                            Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
                            Hooah. It is ultimately satan's last effort of imitating all that God does. When a person accepts Jesus, the Holy Spirit indwells them and takes up residence in the believer. Well, concerning "the" anti-christ revealed in the scriptures concerning the period of the Tribulation, satan will do the same. This spirit isn't some demon oppressing or possessing for the purpose of destroying any given person. The anti-christ is a person fully "indwelled" by satan and thus, fully empowered to do as satan needs.

                            Just as any given Christian is empowered to do as God needs.

                            It's all satan's continued efforts (but then, the last effort) of pretending to be God.
                            But that's not what John describes.

                            1 John 2:22
                            22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichristódenying the Father and the Son.

                            1 John 4:3
                            3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

                            2 John 1:7
                            I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

                            John describes the antichrist as a spirit which denies that Jesus is the Christ which indwells people. I agree that its not about destroying a person like the sea beast does this spirit is more dangerous its trying to destroy the soul not the body.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

                              Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                              But that's not what John describes.

                              1 John 2:22
                              22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.

                              1 John 4:3
                              3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

                              2 John 1:7
                              I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

                              John describes the antichrist as a spirit which denies that Jesus is the Christ which indwells people. I agree that its not about destroying a person like the sea beast does this spirit is more dangerous its trying to destroy the soul not the body.
                              Yes.

                              Remember how the Holy Spirit "fell" upon man during OT times, even empowered them? But did not indwell them, well, NOW (not during the time of the Tribulation), the anti-christ is doing the same with mankind to "influence" the world to be against God.

                              Gotta go, will get into John's Revelation verses concerning the anti-christ during the Trib.
                              Slug1--out

                              ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

                                Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
                                Yes.

                                Remember how the Holy Spirit "fell" upon man during OT times, even empowered them? But did not indwell them, well, NOW (not during the time of the Tribulation), the anti-christ is doing the same with mankind to "influence" the world to be against God.

                                Gotta go, will get into John's Revelation verses concerning the anti-christ during the Trib.
                                I agree but what I'm getting at is that most of the church confuses the antichrist with the sea beast in Revelation. The antichrist is more like the land beast of Revelation who is also known as the false prophet.

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