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Who and what is the antichrist?

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  • #91
    Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

    Originally posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
    I can attest to that quality found in Marty too !
    I also thank God for that quality in him, because it is a rare and refreshing quality found on these forums.
    Also did you see post#75?

    Comment


    • #92
      Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

      Originally posted by randyk View Post
      That's true, and perhaps a reasonable objection. My thought is that the horns and heads are virtually indistinguishable.
      How? Do you have any trouble distinguishing between an animals head and it's horns? I don't. They are completely different things in Rev, which Rev 17 explains.

      A horn is a singular king who has a kingdom he rules over.
      A head is are area of land where kingdoms are located.
      Since there are ten kingdoms and only 7 areas of land that means some areas have one kingdom but some have more.
      We see similar now with north America having more than one kingdom/countries and governments.

      They are only distinguished because the heads are the leaders whereas the horns represent the kingdoms over which these leaders rule.
      The heads are not leaders. Only the horns are. This is why you get thiongs confused because you are wrongfully equating the horns and heads as indistinguishable.



      Therefore, in my view, the "heads" represent individual kings, whereas the "horns" represents the kingdoms over which these kings rule.
      Except scripture does not support this separation of king and kingdom. The heads are not kings. The horns are kings. We are told these kings are given kingdoms for one hour with the beast. Horns then are kings that have kingdoms. The heads of the beast are something completely different and never ever should be confused with what the horns represent. This is the single biggest error most people make when talking about the beast and it's heads and horns.

      Rev 17:9* And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.*

      Rev 17:12* And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.*
      James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

      Comment


      • #93
        Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

        Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
        How? Do you have any trouble distinguishing between an animals head and it's horns? I don't. They are completely different things in Rev, which Rev 17 explains.

        A horn is a singular king who has a kingdom he rules over.
        A head is are area of land where kingdoms are located.
        Since there are ten kingdoms and only 7 areas of land that means some areas have one kingdom but some have more.
        We see similar now with north America having more than one kingdom/countries and governments.

        The heads are not leaders. Only the horns are. This is why you get thiongs confused because you are wrongfully equating the horns and heads as indistinguishable.

        Except scripture does not support this separation of king and kingdom. The heads are not kings. The horns are kings. We are told these kings are given kingdoms for one hour with the beast. Horns then are kings that have kingdoms. The heads of the beast are something completely different and never ever should be confused with what the horns represent. This is the single biggest error most people make when talking about the beast and it's heads and horns.

        Rev 17:9* And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.*

        Rev 17:12* And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.*
        I am still following each post on this thread, and am learning a lot by it's discussion.

        I agree that a horn in the bible is used to represent a vessel or mouth-piece/announcer or herald that proclaims the words of it's head.
        For me anyway every use of the word horn in the OT jives with that definition.
        ie: typified by Daniel 3:15
        Daniel 3:15
        Now if you are ready when you hear the sound of the horn, pipe, lyre, trigon, harp, bagpipe, and every kind of music, to fall down and worship the image that I have made, well and good.[fn] But if you do not worship, you shall immediately be cast into a burning fiery furnace. And who is the god who will deliver you out of my hands?”
        Don't seek too much knowledge. You just may be putting more weight on your shoulders than you're able to bare.
        Let God be the one to decide how quickly you grow

        Comment


        • #94
          Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

          Originally posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
          I am still following each post on this thread, and am learning a lot by it's discussion.

          I agree that a horn in the bible is used to represent a vessel or mouth-piece/announcer or herald that proclaims the words of it's head.
          That's a horn that no longer is on a head and is not the same thing as an animal with horns. These are not musical instruments used to make sounds for the head. The mouth does that. We have to stick with what Rev says, horns are kings that have kingdoms. Heads are mountains which in the Greek just means a land mass not like old volcanoes that form big mountains with snow etc. England would be a mountain, or north America etc.
          James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

          Comment


          • #95
            Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

            Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
            That's a horn that no longer is on a head and is not the same thing as an animal with horns. These are not musical instruments used to make sounds for the head. The mouth does that. We have to stick with what Rev says, horns are kings that have kingdoms. Heads are mountains which in the Greek just means a land mass not like old volcanoes that form big mountains with snow etc. England would be a mountain, or north America etc.
            Every mention of the word "horn" in the OT is symbolic of the same thing:
            It is symbolic/represent a vessel that usually contains or proclaims a matter.
            Or as a mouth-piece/announcer, or herald-(person) that proclaims the words
            of it's head-(it's authority).
            Last edited by Jacob's Ladder; Oct 31st 2019, 02:44 AM. Reason: corrections and an addition
            Don't seek too much knowledge. You just may be putting more weight on your shoulders than you're able to bare.
            Let God be the one to decide how quickly you grow

            Comment


            • #96
              Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

              Originally posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
              Every mention of the word "horn" in the OT is symbolic of the same thing:
              It is symbolic/represent a vessel that contain a proclamation, or a mouth-piece/announcer, herald-(person) that proclaims the words of it's head-(authority).
              That's not what a horn is in Rev. It tells us what a horn is.

              Rev 17:12* And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.*
              James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

              Comment


              • #97
                Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

                Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                That's not what a horn is in Rev. It tells us what a horn is.


                Rev 17:12* And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.*
                I will lovingly excuse your reading comprehension here, ewq1938.
                The quote below is what I posted, with added bold-text for your comprehension.
                Originally posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
                Every mention of the word "horn" in the OT is symbolic of the same thing:
                It is symbolic/represent a vessel that usually contains or proclaims a matter.
                Or as a mouth-piece/announcer, or herald-(person) that proclaims the words
                of it's head-(it's authority).
                Last edited by Jacob's Ladder; Oct 31st 2019, 02:08 AM. Reason: corrections and an addition
                Don't seek too much knowledge. You just may be putting more weight on your shoulders than you're able to bare.
                Let God be the one to decide how quickly you grow

                Comment


                • #98
                  Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

                  Originally posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
                  I will lovingly excuse your reading comprehension here, ewq1938.
                  Scripture trumps all else. Also, please do not insult my reading comprehension. Thank you.
                  James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

                    Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                    Do you really think that satan has the power to raise people from the dead?
                    It's a discussion for ages now it seems. Rev 13... that man who was wounded and makes full recovery is deemed divine and this world, led by the false prophet, worships this person. Raised from the dead Miraculously healed If not raised, then clearly revealed as being miraculously healed. Since this is in essence an imitation of God in some form and Christ was killed and raised, then there is at least the possibility that to a world that is spiritually "dead," they are deceived into believing the man was raised, when only a miraculous healing, happened.

                    When I say miraculous, I am not referring to the power of God at all and I want that to be clear. Signs/wonders will be done by supernatural power (as done today either by God's power or satan's power). None of the signs/wonders during the Trib (the ones to deceive) will be fake but will be true supernatural occurrences empowered by satan.
                    Slug1--out

                    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

                    Comment


                    • Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

                      Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                      Also, please do not insult my reading comprehension. Thank you.
                      I did not insult it, I lovingly excused it in an attempt to correct it.
                      Will sharing some of my cookies and milk cover my perceived insult ?


                      Re: post # 97 ...(three (3 post above)
                      Don't seek too much knowledge. You just may be putting more weight on your shoulders than you're able to bare.
                      Let God be the one to decide how quickly you grow

                      Comment


                      • Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

                        Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                        Also did you see post#75?
                        Yes I did see that thank you.
                        Don't seek too much knowledge. You just may be putting more weight on your shoulders than you're able to bare.
                        Let God be the one to decide how quickly you grow

                        Comment


                        • Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

                          Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
                          It's a discussion for ages now it seems. Rev 13... that man who was wounded and makes full recovery is deemed divine and this world, led by the false prophet, worships this person. Raised from the dead Miraculously healed If not raised, then clearly revealed as being miraculously healed. Since this is in essence an imitation of God in some form and Christ was killed and raised, then there is at least the possibility that to a world that is spiritually "dead," they are deceived into believing the man was raised, when only a miraculous healing, happened.

                          When I say miraculous, I am not referring to the power of God at all and I want that to be clear. Signs/wonders will be done by supernatural power (as done today either by God's power or satan's power). None of the signs/wonders during the Trib (the ones to deceive) will be fake but will be true supernatural occurrences empowered by satan.
                          Revelation 13:1-4
                          The dragon[a] stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. 2 The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. 3 One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast. 4 People worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, “Who is like the beast? Who can wage war against it?”

                          If you look at the verses below you will see that the heads are not just a person but hills too. This tells us that it is not a mere man. When we read the verses above we will see that it doesn't say that the head is fatally wounded but that it seemed to be fatally wounded. It also says that it was healed not miraculously healed and it also doesn't say who healed it. This is a far cry from a man dying and being raised back to life from satan.

                          Rev 17:9-11
                          9 “This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. 11 The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

                            Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
                            It's a discussion for ages now it seems. Rev 13... that man who was wounded and makes full recovery is deemed divine and this world, led by the false prophet, worships this person.
                            There is no man who is wounded in Rev 13. It is an area of land (a mountain) that is symbolically wounded by a sword which represents war. Parts of Vietnam was wounded by war, namely that terrible agent orange stuff. Same concept when the nukes hit Japan in ww2. Those are ways that areas of land are wounded by war.

                            Rev 13:3* And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.*

                            One head out of 7 was wounded and healed. No death occurred in this.

                            What is a head?

                            Rev 17:9* And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.*

                            Not people but places.
                            James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

                              Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                              This tells us that it is not a mere man.
                              It's not a man being wounded at all. No man, only a place.
                              James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Who and what is the antichrist?

                                Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                                How? Do you have any trouble distinguishing between an animals head and it's horns? I don't. They are completely different things in Rev, which Rev 17 explains.
                                I never said I had a problem distinguishing between heads and horns. I'm saying that the use of symbols can make our interpretations questionable, particularly when we're speaking of "heads" and "horns." They normally are on the same appendage, namely the head. But the horn is a tool or weapon of force, whereas the head contains the brain and strategy.

                                Nebuchadnezzar was called a "head." Therefore, "heads" are not strictly symbolic of pieces of land. If "heads" represent kings, then they also represent their kingdoms. When those kings or kingdoms are used as a "force," then they can be aptly described as a "horn."

                                Originally posted by ewq
                                A horn is a singular king who has a kingdom he rules over.
                                A head is are area of land where kingdoms are located.
                                Since there are ten kingdoms and only 7 areas of land that means some areas have one kingdom but some have more.
                                We see similar now with north America having more than one kingdom/countries and governments.

                                The heads are not leaders. Only the horns are. This is why you get thiongs confused because you are wrongfully equating the horns and heads as indistinguishable.
                                I haven't at all said the "heads" and "horns" are indistinguishable. What I'm saying is that they are different symbols referring to the same leaders and to the same kingdoms. The difference in symbols has to do with whether they are being identified for their position as a king or for their position in imposing power. These kings have both. But three of them lose their power (horn), and thus lose their identity as kings (head).

                                Rev 17.9 The seven heads ... are also seven kings.

                                If the 7 heads are 7 kings, then the 7 heads are 7 leaders. Sorry. I can't agree with you.

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