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Rev 20:4/5 firstfruit resurrection of martyred/ first resurrection rest of the dead

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  • #46
    Re: Rev 20:4/5 firstfruit resurrection of martyred/ first resurrection rest of the de

    Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
    So then if the beast comes up from the pit then so would Satan.
    You are going offtrack here. In my previous post I proved that Satan was not in the pit during the GT and that it happens later which proves the GT is before the thousand years, and it cannot be argued that Satan's little season is anywhere before the end of the thousand years because it says it happens after being released from the pit which only happens when the thousand years is over. This is very basic chronology that Rev gives us about these time periods and events.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    • #47
      Re: Rev 20:4/5 firstfruit resurrection of martyred/ first resurrection rest of the de

      Originally posted by ross3421 View Post

      7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

      When was this beast put into the pit? The beast is put into the pit but not Satan?
      You raise some good points here. We know satan is bound a thousand years in the pit. satan and the beast are not the same entity though. In Rev 20 it never says the beast is also bound a thousand years with satan.

      Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

      The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit. What should we assume this means? Does 'was' mean was present in the past? Does 'and is not' mean is no longer present currently? And does "shall ascend out of the bottomless pit" mean will be present once again in the future?

      If this was meaning during Johns day, this would indicate the beast was presently in the pit at the time. But this still doesn't tell us when and how he initially managed to end up in the pit to begin with.

      Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
      2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
      3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

      I'm assuming you think this explains things. Unless one can find something else that might explain things instead, it's looking like you might have a strong point in your favor on this one. So let's see if anyone can come up with something else that would show when and how the beast initially ended up in the pit to begin with.

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      • #48
        Re: Rev 20:4/5 firstfruit resurrection of martyred/ first resurrection rest of the de

        Originally posted by divaD View Post
        I'm assuming you think this explains things. Unless one can find something else that might explain things instead, it's looking like you might have a strong point in your favor on this one. So let's see if anyone can come up with something else that would show when and how the beast initially ended up in the pit to begin with.
        The pit was opened. The beast could have simply entered it and led his demons out. I don't think any of this is important anyways. It's only important that this is not the timeframe Satan is locked in the pit nor released from it. Whatever this is, has nothing to do with the events seen in Rev 20. Amil needs it to be so they can have Satan leaving the pit before the GT (their altered little season) begins and insist that is the same timeframe in Rev 20.
        James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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        • #49
          Re: Rev 20:4/5 firstfruit resurrection of martyred/ first resurrection rest of the de

          Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
          The pit was opened. The beast could have simply entered it and led his demons out. I don't think any of this is important anyways. It's only important that this is not the timeframe Satan is locked in the pit nor released from it. Whatever this is, has nothing to do with the events seen in Rev 20. Amil needs it to be so they can have Satan leaving the pit before the GT (their altered little season) begins and insist that is the same timeframe in Rev 20.
          In John's day, if the beast was present in the past, was not present in the present, and still isn't present even today, but will eventually be present once it ascends out of the pit, where would it have been for the last 2000 years or more if not in the pit? There has to be some Scriptures showing when and how it initially ended up in the pit to begin with.

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          • #50
            Re: Rev 20:4/5 firstfruit resurrection of martyred/ first resurrection rest of the de

            Originally posted by divaD View Post
            In John's day, if the beast was present in the past, was not present in the present, and still isn't present even today, but will eventually be present once it ascends out of the pit, where would it have been for the last 2000 years or more if not in the pit? There has to be some Scriptures showing when and how it initially ended up in the pit to begin with.
            There isn't any. All we know is the beast leaves the pit. Nothing says how the beast got into the pit.
            James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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            • #51
              Re: Rev 20:4/5 firstfruit resurrection of martyred/ first resurrection rest of the de

              Originally posted by divaD View Post
              In John's day, if the beast was present in the past, was not present in the present, and still isn't present even today, but will eventually be present once it ascends out of the pit, where would it have been for the last 2000 years or more if not in the pit?
              8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless

              The is, was not, and yet is shows that rev 17 is set in the future. Why. This shows the beast was in heaven, then was not which indicates time in the pit, and yet is will be when he comes up from the pit. The 'was not" meaning in the pit has not occurred yet meaning John is seeing Rev 17 yet in the future and that the beast is yet in the pit today. Thus the beast is not in the pit today nor for over the last 2000 years.

              Now notice that Christ also, was, was not, yet is. Interesting right? So both satan and God have a head wounded unto death but healed when they make their final appearance. Satan from below, God from above.

              4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

              There has to be some Scriptures showing when and how it initially ended up in the pit to begin with
              Was

              3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

              Is not

              9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
              12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

              13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it

              This is where the beast is cast into the earth, the pit. Note also wow the inhabitants of the sea. The sea denoting wherein the dead are raised. Then in rev 13 we see the beast with the 7 heads and 10 horns coming up from the sea with a healed head giving the meaning of "yet is".

              Yet is

              1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

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              • #52
                Re: Rev 20:4/5 firstfruit resurrection of martyred/ first resurrection rest of the de

                Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
                8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless

                The is, was not, and yet is shows that rev 17 is set in the future. Why. This shows the beast was in heaven, then was not which indicates time in the pit, and yet is will be when he comes up from the pit. The 'was not" meaning in the pit has not occurred yet meaning John is seeing Rev 17 yet in the future and that the beast is yet in the pit today. Thus the beast is not in the pit today nor for over the last 2000 years.

                Now notice that Christ also, was, was not, yet is. Interesting right? So both satan and God have a head wounded unto death but healed when they make their final appearance. Satan from below, God from above.

                4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;



                Was

                3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

                Is not

                9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
                12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

                13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it

                This is where the beast is cast into the earth, the pit. Note also wow the inhabitants of the sea. The sea denoting wherein the dead are raised. Then in rev 13 we see the beast with the 7 heads and 10 horns coming up from the sea with a healed head giving the meaning of "yet is".

                Yet is

                1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

                Some of your reasoning I can somewhat follow the logic in it, some of it I can't. It's still early here though, maybe that might explain some of it.

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                • #53
                  Re: Rev 20:4/5 firstfruit resurrection of martyred/ first resurrection rest of the de

                  Originally posted by ross3421 View Post

                  Now notice that Christ also, was, was not, yet is. Interesting right?
                  No, because "was, was not, yet is" is not the same as "which is, and which was, and which is to come". There is no "was not" for Christ so the comparison fails.


                  So both satan and God have a head wounded unto death but healed when they make their final appearance.
                  That is not biblical. Satan is not wounded, a mountain within his great empire was and there was no death just a healing. Jesus was wounded everywhere and died and was resurrected. Again, the comparison is flawed and therefore false doctrine.
                  James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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