Discussion RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

[DurbanDude]

Many misunderstand the restrainer of 2 Thessalonians 2.

There is a secret of lawlessness. Does a good entity keep dark secrets, or an evil entity? An evil entity is keeping a dark secret, the secret of lawlessness and the secret identity of the man of sin is kept from us.

When this evil entity is removed then the lawless one will be revealed. The one restraining the identity of the man of sin, is Satan. He wants to keep the lawlessness a secret, but shall be removed out of the way first. Then the lawless one will be revealed.

The way to understand this is TIMING. Rev 13 tells us that the beast will gain authority and persecute for 42 months through deceiving signs and wonders. 2 Thess 2 also says the man of sin will gain authority (and be revealed) through deceiving signs and wonders. Thus we can place the revealing of the man of sin 42 months before the end.

Rev 12 places the removal of Satan at the same time, being 1260 days (42 x 30) of wrath and persecution before his end.

Thus the forced removal of Satan from his heavenly location occurs AT THE SAME TIME as the restrainer is "taken out of the way". Then the SECRET lawlessness is over, and is replaced by the revealing of the man of lawlessness.
( The following 3 posts will be Bible verses, to show how everything matches up.)

[DurbanDude]

Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

2 Thessalonians 2: the contrast, secret lawlessness, then the man of lawlessness is revealed:

the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

5 Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7 For the SECRET power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing.

[DurbanDude]

Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

Deceiving signs : 2 Thess 2 compared to Rev 13:

2 Thess 2: The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing.

Rev 13:,It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. 13 And it performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people. 14 Because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived the inhabitants of the earth

From that we can see that the deceiving signs in both chapters places the revealing of the man of lawlessness, at the same timing as the Rev 13 authority of the beast, being for 42 months of authority as per Rev 13:5

[randyk]

Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

I, like so many others, have tried, in the past, to determine who and what the "Restrainer" was, inhibiting the coming of Antichrist. No matter whether I fit into that slot the Holy Spirit, or the Church, or something else, nothing worked, until I went back to see how this teaching was in some way successful in instructing the Church in history. I did find that in the Early Church there was benefit from this teaching when recognizing that the Roman government was the referent of this "Restrainer." As in other similar passages of Scriptures Rome was not directly referenced in a negative way, to avoid appearing to express dissension.

Those familiar with Daniel's prophecies would've known that the 4th Kingdom in Dan 7 was the Roman Kingdom, which had to precede its fragmentation into 10 nations and 7 leaders before Antichrist appears. Therefore, it was, in Paul's day, the Roman government, as a unified empire, that restrained the coming of Antichrist. The Roman government had to fragment 1st before Antichrist could come. Therefore, Paul supported the continuing unity and authority of the Roman government in maintaining law and order, despite its great corruption--despite the fact the power of lawlessness was within it.

[DurbanDude]

Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

Rev 12: Satan is hurled from heaven, for a short period of wrath. He tries to destroy the woman, who is protected for 1260 days, the same period as 42 x 30 day months.

Thus the hurling down of Satan occurs at the same time as the one who holds back the secret is taken out of the way :

2 Thess 2 the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed

It's not just a coincidence, that Satan is removed from his heavenly location at the same time as the restrainer of secret lawlessness is taken out the way, and the lawless one is revealed.

[DurbanDude]

Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

I, like so many others, have tried, in the past, to determine who and what the "Restrainer" was, inhibiting the coming of Antichrist. No matter whether I fit into that slot the Holy Spirit, or the Church, or something else, nothing worked, until I went back to see how this teaching was in some way successful in instructing the Church in history. I did find that in the Early Church there was benefit from this teaching when recognizing that the Roman government was the referent of this "Restrainer." As in other similar passages of Scriptures Rome was not directly referenced in a negative way, to avoid appearing to express dissension.

Those familiar with Daniel's prophecies would've known that the 4th Kingdom in Dan 7 was the Roman Kingdom, which had to precede its fragmentation into 10 nations and 7 leaders before Antichrist appears. Therefore, it was, in Paul's day, the Roman government, as a unified empire, that restrained the coming of Antichrist. The Roman government had to fragment 1st before Antichrist could come. Therefore, Paul supported the continuing unity and authority of the Roman government in maintaining law and order, despite its great corruption--despite the fact the power of lawlessness was within it.

The secret of lawlessness is exposed, and the lawless one is revealed when the entire world is deceived by signs and wonders, 42 months from the end.

Whatever your viewpoint should have an entity being removed at that timing, 42 months before the end. This is the timing of the revealing of 2 Thess 2.

[Walls]

Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

I'm a bit puzzled. The man of sin has five events

1. He must be revealed. He must be seen, heard and must gain political credibility
2. With this credibility he can be selected by the 10 kings and given power
3. With this power he can confirm the Covenant with Israel.
4. With his power he stop the oblation and set himself up in the Temple
5. With this power he rules the whole earth for 3.5 years

Let's work back wards from the Lord's coming Whose presence destroys this man.

1. The Lord's presence we will call D-Day
2. The man of sin stopping the oblation and setting himself up to be worshiped is D-Day minus 3.5 years
3. The man of sin confirming the Covenant with Israel is then D-Day minus 7 years, as Daniel says

So the "revealing" of the man of sin is sometime BEFORE this last "seven". And you are saying that the secret of sin, and the secret of the man of sin's identity sin is removed to make way for the man of sin say, four years, or three years, before that? (Posting #1).

[DurbanDude]

Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

I'm a bit puzzled. The man of sin has five events

1. He must be revealed. He must be seen, heard and must gain political credibility
2. With this credibility he can be selected by the 10 kings and given power
3. With this power he can confirm the Covenant with Israel.
4. With his power he stop the oblation and set himself up in the Temple
5. With this power he rules the whole earth for 3.5 years

Let's work back wards from the Lord's coming Whose presence destroys this man.

1. The Lord's presence we will call D-Day
2. The man of sin stopping the oblation and setting himself up to be worshiped is D-Day minus 3.5 years
3. The man of sin confirming the Covenant with Israel is then D-Day minus 7 years, as Daniel says

So the "revealing" of the man of sin is sometime BEFORE this last "seven". And you are saying that the secret of sin, and the secret of the man of sin's identity sin is removed to make way for the man of sin say, four years, or three years, before that? (Posting #1).

I am claiming just one 3.5 year period, not 2.

I think it's pretty obvious that's theres just one event when the world is deceived by signs in the sky, not two such events. The coming to power of the antichrist/ beast of Rev 13 occurs with deceiving signs, and the antichrist rules for 42 months in Rev 13.

So when 2 Thess 2 refers to the coming to power of the antichrist with deceiving signs and wonders, this is referring to the same event, 42 months before the end. Any further doctrine or assumptions of order of events should fit in with that logic, that the revealing/authority of the man of lawlessness in 2 Thess 2 matches the authority of the beast in Rev 13, being only for 42 months.

If you want to include the covenant in Dan 9:27, this would be 3.5 years earlier and unrelated to a revealing or deceiving signs or actual authority. I personally think that first 3.5 year period is historical, but if you want to see it as future, the covenant has to occur 3.5 years before the revealing, because the revealing has deceiving signs starting the beasts final 42 month reign.

This "gaining political credibility" is an assumption, the Bible refers to a sudden revealing.

[Walls]

Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

I am claiming just one 3.5 year period, not 2.

I think it's pretty obvious that's theres just one event when the world is deceived by signs in the sky, not two such events. The coming to power of the antichrist/ beast of Rev 13 occurs with deceiving signs, and the antichrist rules for 42 months in Rev 13.

So when 2 Thess 2 refers to the coming to power of the antichrist with deceiving signs and wonders, this is referring to the same event, 42 months before the end. Any further doctrine or assumptions of order of events should fit in with that logic, that the revealing/authority of the man of lawlessness in 2 Thess 2 matches the authority of the beast in Rev 13, being only for 42 months.

If you want to include the covenant in Dan 9:27, this would be 3.5 years earlier and unrelated to a revealing or deceiving signs or actual authority. I personally think that first 3.5 year period is historical, but if you want to see it as future, the covenant has to occur 3.5 years before the revealing, because the revealing has deceiving signs starting the beasts final 42 month reign.

This "gaining political credibility" is an assumption, the Bible refers to a sudden revealing.

Did you take into consideration the meaning of "revealed" in 2nd Thessalonians 2:8? The Greek word is "apokalypto" meaning "to take the cover off". Like it or not, the man of sin will be revealed latest when He confirms the Covenant. That is 7 years before our Lord returns and destroys him. There is only one Covenant with Daniel's People that includes the oblation - the Covenant of the Law of Moses. For the Covenant of Law to be established, AND for the oblation, A TEMPLE IS NEEDED. So must a Temple be needed for him to sit in. So the questions that must be answered are:

1. On what authority does this man of sin have the power and charisma to allow a Temple in Jerusalem - something that no man has yet come close to achieving
2. On what authority does the man deal with the Israelite nation
3. What is the reason that 10 kings give him their power
4. Do you think all these will be done without the world finding out?

Finally, how can sin restrain sin? Sin PROMOTES sin. The record of scripture is that "SALT" restrains corruption.

[DurbanDude]

Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

Did you take into consideration the meaning of "revealed" in 2nd Thessalonians 2:8? The Greek word is "apokalypto" meaning "to take the cover off". Like it or not, the man of sin will be revealed latest when He confirms the Covenant. That is 7 years before our Lord returns and destroys him. There is only one Covenant with Daniel's People that includes the oblation - the Covenant of the Law of Moses. For the Covenant of Law to be established, AND for the oblation, A TEMPLE IS NEEDED. So must a Temple be needed for him to sit in. So the questions that must be answered are:

1. On what authority does this man of sin have the power and charisma to allow a Temple in Jerusalem - something that no man has yet come close to achieving
2. On what authority does the man deal with the Israelite nation
3. What is the reason that 10 kings give him their power
4. Do you think all these will be done without the world finding out?

Finally, how can sin restrain sin? Sin PROMOTES sin. The record of scripture is that "SALT" restrains corruption.

2 Thess 2 has nothing to do with restraining sin.

It is about lawlessness being kept a secret. Then the man of lawlessness being revealed. Who keeps evil secrets? Satan. The church exposes evil. When the church has the victory of our testimony, Satan will fall for 3.5 years of wrath on earth, and that is when the antichrist comes to power for 42 months with deceiving signs in the sky, even fire coming to earth according to Rev 13. It would be naive not to match the signs and wonders in the sky of Rev 13 with the deceiving signs of 2 Thess 2 associated with the revealing of the man of sin. 42 months of rule, not 84.

Someone else will build the temple and start the sacrifices (maybe Trump). The antichrist will be supported by Rome and the New 10 nation Turkish Union to stop the sacrifices. Not to start them. When he stops them, he will gain credibility (with liberals /vegans/Islam) and then shortly after will be a dramatic display of deceiving signs and the whole world will be convinced. Yet to the church, we won't be deceived, the evil will be exposed in obvious fashion if we are not deceived by universal/liberal values.

[Revelation Man]

Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

Many misunderstand the restrainer of 2 Thessalonians 2.

There is a secret of lawlessness. Does a good entity keep dark secrets, or an evil entity? An evil entity is keeping a dark secret, the secret of lawlessness and the secret identity of the man of sin is kept from us.

When this evil entity is removed then the lawless one will be revealed. The one restraining the identity of the man of sin, is Satan. He wants to keep the lawlessness a secret, but shall be removed out of the way first. Then the lawless one will be revealed.

The way to understand this is TIMING. Rev 13 tells us that the beast will gain authority and persecute for 42 months through deceiving signs and wonders. 2 Thess 2 also says the man of sin will gain authority (and be revealed) through deceiving signs and wonders. Thus we can place the revealing of the man of sin 42 months before the end.

Rev 12 places the removal of Satan at the same time, being 1260 days (42 x 30) of wrath and persecution before his end.

Thus the forced removal of Satan from his heavenly location occurs AT THE SAME TIME as the restrainer is "taken out of the way". Then the SECRET lawlessness is over, and is replaced by the revealing of the man of lawlessness.
( The following 3 posts will be Bible verses, to show how everything matches up.)

The Church restrains the Beast which is why there has been no Beasts since Rome received the Mortal Wound. When we DEPART like 2 Thess. 2 says we will, the RESTRAINER will be taken out of the way.

[DurbanDude]

Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

The Church restrains the Beast which is why there has been no Beasts since Rome received the Mortal Wound. When we DEPART like 2 Thess. 2 says we will, the RESTRAINER will be taken out of the way.

Pretribs think that the church or the holy spirit is the restrainer, but the text doesn't actually point to that.

The church does not keep secrets. It is an evil entity that is keeping the identity of lawlessness a secret. That evil entity needs to be removed, then the lawless one is exposed.

This event occurs 42 months before the end, not 7 years. We know this because Rev 13 associates the coming to power of the beast with the same deceiving signs and wonders, for 42 months of reign, not 84 months of reign.

[Pesachpup]

Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

2 Thessalonians 2: the contrast, secret lawlessness, then the man of lawlessness is revealed:

the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

5 Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7 For the SECRET power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing.

You are missing an important element in your understanding. Just as we currently abide in times in which the mystery of iniquity has prevailed and continues to prevail until the man of sin is to be revealed, it is only because Christ is the mystery of godliness:

1Ti 3:16 KJV And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Jesus, as God, was manifest in the flesh, HE was seen of angels, HE was justified in the spirit, HE preached unto the Gentiles, HE was believed on while he lived in this world AS THE SON OF THE MOST HIGH AND HOLY GOD.

But now, HE has been received up into glory, THE GLORY OF THE MOST HIGH. HE dwells in the light that no man can approach unto:

1Ti 6:16 KJV Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

If Christ lived his whole life without the taint of sin in his life, then why is he the mystery of godliness? It's because he was received up into heaven and now there abides. It is because we don't have the revealed son of God living in our presence that we don't know of God's unbridled holiness. And because of that bridling of holiness, we are left with unbridled iniquity. It will be the unveiling of the full cloak of God's righteousness that will be the unveiling, the removal of the veil of iniquity.

2Ti 1:10 KJV But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Do you see what I'm saying? It will be the coming/revelation, the apocalupsis, the parousia; it will be the appearing, epiphaneia of Christ, that will take the lid off, so to speak, of the mystery of iniquity,

2Th 2:8 KJV And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness(epiphaneia)of his coming(parousia):

You got the timing right, you just fail to recognize that it will be the appearing of Christ, with the revelation of the full glory of God that will unveil the man of sin.


2Th 2:8 KJV And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness (epiphaneia) of his coming:
1Ti 6:14 KJV That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing (epiphaneia) of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Ti 1:10 KJV But is now made manifest by the appearing (epiphaneia) of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
2Ti 4:1 KJV I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing (epiphaneia) and his kingdom;
2Ti 4:8 KJV Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing (epiphaneia).
Tit 2:13 KJV Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing (epiphaneia) of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Be Blessed
The PuP

[TheDivineWatermark]

Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

Pretty sure I've posted this not long ago, but will put it here too

[quoting]

The wording of 2 Thessalonians 2:7b-8a is very similar to that of Lamentations 2:3-4 (in the context of "WRATH" words and "judgments" on Israel),

--where it [2Th2:7-8a] says, "the one restraining at present, will restrain, UNTIL out of the midst he be come [come to be], AND THEN shall that Wicked be revealed..." ; and

--Lam2:3-4 says (in very similar language), "...he hath drawn back his right hand from before the enemy [effectively saying (to their enemies) 'HAVE AT IT!'/'go ahead, sic 'em!'], and he burned against Jacob like like a flaming fire, which devoureth round about."

[randyk]

Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

The secret of lawlessness is exposed, and the lawless one is revealed when the entire world is deceived by signs and wonders, 42 months from the end.

Whatever your viewpoint should have an entity being removed at that timing, 42 months before the end. This is the timing of the revealing of 2 Thess 2.

The 1st thing to restrain the Antichrist was the unified Roman govt. The 2nd thing to restrain the Antichrist would be the 10 nations the Roman Empire would divide into. Presently there is a coalescence of these 10+ nations into European Union. There are more than 10 nations in the EU, but the major nations that form the Antichristian union will consist of only 10 of these nations and 7 of their leaders.

The thing presently restraining the establishment of the Antichristian Empire is therefore this European Union. Once its central leadership is taken out of the way, Antichrist will appear and establish his own Empire. I'm indulging in pure speculation.