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RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

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  • Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

    Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
    The word only means to depart somehow from the beliefs or faith one has. It's a religious departing, not a physical departing. It's used twice in scripture and that's what it means.

    G646
    ἀποστασία
    apostasia
    ap-os-tas-ee'-ah
    Feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly the state), (“apostasy”): - falling away, forsake.
    Total KJV occurrences: 2
    Not correct.

    You are limited in your understanding, by viewing only a "limited" source, and looking no further (like at the Liddell and Scott Greek-English Lexicon source I provided):

    "Liddell and Scott, in their Greek-English Lexicon (1871; page 93), has listed under "apostasia"... "later form for apostasis"

    --"apo stasis" is from "apo - away from" and "stasis [/stasin] - a standing"... thus, "a standing away from [from a previous standing]"

    (i.e. a "departure"...
    from WHATEVER the CONTEXT indicates, as to just "WHAT KIND" of "departure" is meant, in any given passage--the BASIC MEANING of the word is simply "DEPARTURE" [without injecting "WHAT KIND," which is determined by whatever context wherein it's found--whether "FROM MOSES" or "from a governmental/law-type situation" or "of a FEVER" or "[boat] FROM A DOCK" (these latter ones being a spatial/geographical departure!)])


    --then look at how "stasis/stasin [G4714]" (from the above point) is used in 8 of its 9 times (that is, in a NEGATIVE sense--see: https://biblehub.com/text/hebrews/9-8.htm and if you hover your cursor over the G4714 in the left-hand column, the "pop-up definition" there ONLY PROVIDES the "NEGATIVE SENSE" definition of this [related] word, but the word is NOT in the "NEGATIVE SENSE" in this Heb9:8-9 CONTEXT!!!); and

    it would NOT BE CORRECT to therefore conclude that its 9th time used [the one found in Heb9:8-9 (*see link below for list)] is also to be understood in this NEGATIVE sense merely because it is used in a NEGATIVE sense in ALL OTHER INSTANCES!

    To INSIST on such a thing ^ would just be to insist on being "willfully ignorant".



    *-- see ALL of the list of its NINE times here: https://biblehub.com/greek/4714.htm [right-hand column--note how the LAST reference is NOT used in the SAME *NEGATIVE* SENSE as are ALL THE OTHERS!]


    You yourself may not care to scrutinize what I've put above [at these two links], but the readers of this thread many wish to, in order "to see whether these things are so"

    Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
    The word only means to depart somehow from the beliefs or faith one has. It's a religious departing, not a physical departing. It's used twice in scripture and that's what it means.

    G646
    ἀποστασία
    apostasia
    ap-os-tas-ee'-ah
    Feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly the state), (“apostasy”): - falling away, forsake.
    Total KJV occurrences: 2
    Not correct.

    You are limited in your understanding, by viewing only a "limited" source, and looking no further (like at the Liddell and Scott Greek-English Lexicon source I provided):

    "Liddell and Scott, in their Greek-English Lexicon (1871; page 93), has listed under "apostasia"... "later form for apostasis"

    --"apo stasis" is from "apo - away from" and "stasis [/stasin] - a standing"... thus, "a standing away from [from a previous standing]"

    (i.e. a "departure"...
    from WHATEVER the CONTEXT indicates, as to just "WHAT KIND" of "departure" is meant, in any given passage--the BASIC MEANING of the word is simply "DEPARTURE" [without injecting "WHAT KIND," which is determined by whatever context wherein it's found--whether "FROM MOSES" or "from a governmental/law-type situation" or "of a FEVER" or "[boat] FROM A DOCK" (these latter ones being a spatial/geographical departure!)])


    --then look at how "stasis/stasin [G4714]" (from the above point) is used in 8 of its 9 times (that is, in a NEGATIVE sense--see: https://biblehub.com/text/hebrews/9-8.htm and if you hover your cursor over the G4714 in the left-hand column, the "pop-up definition" there ONLY PROVIDES the "NEGATIVE SENSE" definition of this [related] word, but the word is NOT in the "NEGATIVE SENSE" in this Heb9:8-9 CONTEXT!!!); and

    it would NOT BE CORRECT to therefore conclude that its 9th time used [the one found in Heb9:8-9 (*see link below for list)] is also to be understood in this NEGATIVE sense merely because it is used in a NEGATIVE sense in ALL OTHER INSTANCES!

    To INSIST on such a thing ^ would just be to insist on being "willfully ignorant".



    *-- see ALL of the list of its NINE times here: https://biblehub.com/greek/4714.htm [right-hand column--note how the LAST reference is NOT used in the SAME *NEGATIVE* SENSE as are ALL THE OTHERS!]


    You yourself may not care to scrutinize what I've put above [at these two links], but the readers of this thread many wish to, in order "to see whether these things are so"

    Comment


    • Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

      The reader could do the SAME "exercise" (as posted above) with regard to the Greek word "G2438 [DEAD]" used NINE TIMES.

      In the first 8x of its 9 verses, it means "DEAD" (as in "dead as a doornail," "six feet under" "kind" of DEAD); but should we INSIST that in the NINTH one, of the "woman" being referred to there, that we should prepare her casket, and prep for attending her funeral and graveside service?? Or should we take note of the surrounding CONTEXT (i.e. accompanying / clarifying / qualifying words and clues) in order to ascertain that we DO NOT need to "prepare for her BURIAL" in such a way??

      The reader could do the SAME "exercise" (as posted above) with regard to the Greek word "G2438 [DEAD]" used NINE TIMES.

      In the first 8x of its 9 verses, it means "DEAD" (as in "dead as a doornail," "six feet under" "kind" of DEAD); but should we INSIST that in the NINTH one, of the "woman" being referred to there, that we should prepare her casket, and prep for attending her funeral and graveside service?? Or should we take note of the surrounding CONTEXT (i.e. accompanying / clarifying / qualifying words and clues) in order to ascertain that we DO NOT need to "prepare for her BURIAL" in such a way??

      Comment


      • Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

        Originally posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post

        "Liddell and Scott, in their Greek-English Lexicon (1871; page 93), has listed under "apostasia"... "later form for apostasis"
        This is known as root fallacy. To understand the meaning of apostasia you do not go to a root word and then go by what it means to redefine apostasia. The Liddell and Scott Greek Lexicon defines apostasia as "A defection, revolt, v.l. in D.H.7.1, J.Vit.10, Plu.Galb.1; esp. in religious sense, rebellion against God, apostasy, LXX Jo.22.22, 2 Ep.Th.2.3. "

        http://perseus.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/...15.LSJ.1873894


        And specifically says this is the meaning of Th.2.3.

        2Th 2:3* Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first (A defection, revolt, esp. in religious sense, rebellion against God, apostasy), and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

        So, Liddell and Scott says you are wrong about the meaning of apostasia in that verse.
        James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

        Comment


        • Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

          EDIT: sry, last post should read "G2348" (not G2438)

          Comment


          • Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

            Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
            So, Liddell and Scott says you are wrong about the meaning of apostasia in that verse.
            No, I'm quoting from it (1871, pg 93)... when I wrote:

            --listed under "apostasia"... "later form for apostasis"

            _______

            So "apo stasis"... is the two words "away from" and "standing [a standing]" (i.e. "a standing... away from"). That's it.

            Comment


            • Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

              Originally posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
              No, I'm quoting from it (1871, pg 93)... when I wrote:

              --listed under "apostasia"... "later form for apostasis"

              _______

              So "apo stasis"... is the two words "away from" and "standing [a standing]" (i.e. "a standing... away from"). That's it.
              The lexicon still says you are wrong about what apostasia means in Thess 2:3.
              James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

              Comment


              • Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

                Then, for "G4714 stasis / stasin"

                [per BibleHub]

                stasis: standing, place, dissension
                Original Word: στάσις, εως, ἡ
                Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
                Transliteration: stasis
                Phonetic Spelling: (stas'-is)
                Definition: a rebel, revolutionist
                Usage: an insurrection, dissension; originally: standing, position, place.


                [end quoting; bold mine]

                oops, that's way bigger than I expected... sry! lol

                Comment


                • Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

                  [the word in Hebrews 9:8-9 ^ … which in 8 of its 9x is used in the NEGATIVE SENSE, but not in its 9th!]

                  Comment


                  • Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

                    I'll just leave the following three links to recent posts I've made (on this Subject), in a different thread (the "called to" thread):

                    Kenneth S Wuest -

                    https://bibleforums.org/showthread.p...67#post3560067


                    Quote by Wm Kelly on the Heb9:8-9 passage -

                    https://bibleforums.org/showthread.p...69#post3560069


                    Quote by Thomas Ice on the "Translation History" -

                    https://bibleforums.org/showthread.p...37#post3560037



                    [that's if I haven't mixed up the headings I've put here, to their proper LINKS, lol]



                    .

                    Comment


                    • Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

                      Iniquity isn't a mystery to believers. We know the devil is behind it The "man of sin" is known by his departing from the truth and his revealing to unbelievers will occur when the Holy Spirit is "taken out of the way", when salvation is no longer offered, when all who will be saved are saved, when the
                      conquering is done, when the reign of Christ is over.

                      Comment

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