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RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

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  • #61
    Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

    Originally posted by Deade View Post
    I agree wholeheartedly with ewq about the false prophet and antichrist being the same person.
    Glad to hear that.

    Originally posted by Deade View Post
    I agree wholeheartedly with ewq about the false prophet and antichrist being the same person.
    Glad to hear that.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

    Comment


    • #62
      Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

      Originally posted by Deade View Post
      I agree wholeheartedly with ewq about the false prophet and antichrist being the same person.

      I will also add that I think we need to view Revelation 12 as the history of the world from beginning to end, as an overview.

      Satan was cast out of heaven before the Garden of Eden. That is not some future event.

      He still accused God's creation of man as being unable to live sinlessly until the crucifixion of Christ.

      Jesus proved otherwise.
      Regarding Satan being cast out, yes Satan was cast out of actual heaven long ago before Adam. But there are also the spiritual heavens around earth. The evil forces are currently in these heavenlies according to Ephesians 6:12, so these evil heavenly places also do definitely currently exist, separate to God's heavenly throne.

      Even Satan is still there in the heavenlies according to Rev 12, which requires the church to overcome him by the blood of the lamb and through martyrdom.

      In other words the fall of Satan mentioned in Rev 12 did not occur before the crucifixion but occurs afterwards, after a victory of the church:

      the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
      who accuses them before our God day and night,
      has been hurled down.
      11 They triumphed over him
      by the blood of the Lamb
      and by the word of their testimony;
      they did not love their lives so much
      as to shrink from death.
      12 Therefore rejoice, you heavens
      and you who dwell in them!
      But woe to the earth and the sea,
      because the devil has gone down to you!
      He is filled with fury,
      because he knows that his time is short.”

      I'm hoping that you guys can read that. Right there it associates the fall of Satan with a period of victory of the church. You guys are therefore biblically incorrect to place this mention of Satan's fall earlier than the crucifixion, or at the crucifixion.

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

        Originally posted by Deade View Post
        I agree wholeheartedly with ewq about the false prophet and antichrist being the same person.

        I will also add that I think we need to view Revelation 12 as the history of the world from beginning to end, as an overview.

        Satan was cast out of heaven before the Garden of Eden. That is not some future event.

        He still accused God's creation of man as being unable to live sinlessly until the crucifixion of Christ.

        Jesus proved otherwise.
        Regarding the antichrist being the false Prophet, the description of the first beast, not the second beast, matches the antichrist/little horn of Dan 7.

        The first beast rules and persecutes for the final 3.5 years, has a boastful mouth, just like the little horn of Dan 7.

        The second beast has two little horns, not one, and plays a supporting role to the first beast.

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        • #64
          Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

          Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
          Regarding the antichrist being the false Prophet, the description of the first beast, not the second beast, matches the antichrist/little horn of Dan 7.

          The first beast rules and persecutes for the final 3.5 years, has a boastful mouth, just like the little horn of Dan 7.

          The second beast has two little horns, not one, and plays a supporting role to the first beast.
          I wonder if anyone can pinpoint who the fp is meaning in the book of Daniel? We can pretty much pinpoint who the ac is meaning in the book of Daniel, so where can the fp be found in the book of Daniel? You would think he would have to be in the texts somewhere.

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

            Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
            He does but in Rev 13 shows he wants his empire to be worshiped. It's really the same thing as worshiping him.




            And it's his creation that represents himself.



            There are some differences between what the beasts and people do in Daniel vs. Rev. The empire having a mouth in Rev 13, and the little horn in Daniel having a mouth and speaking identical things doesn't mean the Rev 13 sea beast isn't just an empire with a mouth. Wouldn't the empire say the same evil things the AC would?


            Daniel - ten horned beast arises, little horn comes next and is the person of authority and power over the ten horned beast. Little horn is the antichrist.
            Revelation - ten horned beast arises, false prophet comes next and is the person of authority and power over the ten horned beast. False prophet is the antichrist.

            Isn't this a proper identification of the AC in both books?

            In neither is some extra person who was there before the little horn or false prophet but somehow there is this other guy in Rev 13.

            In my opinion, the following from an article I just found tends to sum up things quite nicely.

            Is there an end times unholy trinity? Who is part of the unholy trinity?
            Some students of Bible prophecy refer to an "unholy trinity." This concept comes from Revelation 12 and 13, which describes three evil beings who will deceive many in the end times. These three beings are Satan, the Antichrist, and the False Prophet.

            Satan is a mimic and impersonator. One way he deceives people is by putting forward inferior copies of the real thing. In the last days, Satan will form a sham trinity. He will play the part of God the Father; the Antichrist will stand in for the Son, even to the point of being healed of a "mortal wound" (Revelation 13:3); and the False Prophet will take the role of the Holy Spirit, glorifying the Antichrist. Satan has always wanted to be "like the Most High" (Isaiah 14:14), and this false godhead is another attempt to fabricate godhood for himself.

            https://www.compellingtruth.org/unholy-trinity.html

            The following is what I put together in response to your post before I even found the article above.

            In the holy trinity there is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. In the unholy trinity there would be satan, the beast, and the fp. I would think satan is playing the role of the Father in this unholy trinity. So who would be playing the role of the Son in this unholy trinity? The beast or the fp? And the same for the Holy Spirit?

            What was one role of the Son? That He was a prophet.

            Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.


            If we consider a passage such as this, it mentions false Christs and false prophets in the same context.

            But in the holy trinity, the Holy Spirit would be directing worship, not to Himself, but to the Son. If in the unholy trinity the fp plays the role of the Son, and the beast plays the role of the Holy Spirit, then comparing that to the pattern in the holy trinity, it would be just the opposite in the unholy trinity's case.

            Another clue worth considering is this.

            Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

            In the holy trinity, was one of them ever mortally wounded, and yet lived after having died? Yes there was, meaning the Son of course. Regardless that Revelation 13:3 might not literally be meaning one literally dies, then lives again after death, it's still depicting the same concept that was literally true of the Son.

            So I would think, based on these things here, the one in the unholy trinity playing the role of the Son which resembles closest to the Son in the holy trinity, appears to be the beast, thus making the beast the ac.

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

              Originally posted by divaD View Post
              I wonder if anyone can pinpoint who the fp is meaning in the book of Daniel? We can pretty much pinpoint who the ac is meaning in the book of Daniel, so where can the fp be found in the book of Daniel? You would think he would have to be in the texts somewhere.
              It seems the False Prophet is more like Nebuchadnezzar making his people worship his great image?

              Dan 3.4 Then the herald loudly proclaimed, “Nations and peoples of every language, this is what you are commanded to do: 5 As soon as you hear the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp, pipe and all kinds of music, you must fall down and worship the image of gold that King Nebuchadnezzar has set up. 6 Whoever does not fall down and worship will immediately be thrown into a blazing furnace.”

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

                Originally posted by divaD View Post
                I wonder if anyone can pinpoint who the fp is meaning in the book of Daniel? We can pretty much pinpoint who the ac is meaning in the book of Daniel, so where can the fp be found in the book of Daniel? You would think he would have to be in the texts somewhere.
                I don't think anyone has found scriptural ref to the fp in the Book of Daniel. Key scriptures are (there are more):

                beast/anti-christ: Rev 13; 1 John 2&4; Dan 7&8; 2 Thess 2.
                fp: Rev 13; 16; and 20.
                Slug1--out

                ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

                  Originally posted by randyk View Post
                  It seems the False Prophet is more like Nebuchadnezzar making his people worship his great image?

                  Dan 3.4 Then the herald loudly proclaimed, “Nations and peoples of every language, this is what you are commanded to do: 5 As soon as you hear the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp, pipe and all kinds of music, you must fall down and worship the image of gold that King Nebuchadnezzar has set up. 6 Whoever does not fall down and worship will immediately be thrown into a blazing furnace.”
                  The spirit of the anti-christ can be associated with any rebellion against God through it's "influence." Influence a nation's ruler and the nation will follow or be forced by the ruler.

                  During the Trib, a person will be actually empowered by this spirit... much more than just being influenced. Thus the ability to force the world (not just a region ).
                  Slug1--out

                  ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

                    Originally posted by divaD View Post
                    I wonder if anyone can pinpoint who the fp is meaning in the book of Daniel? We can pretty much pinpoint who the ac is meaning in the book of Daniel, so where can the fp be found in the book of Daniel? You would think he would have to be in the texts somewhere.
                    It's a difficult one to explain, and one has to have the understanding that beasts are demon kings, not human kings to really get to grips with what actually happens in the demonic realm.

                    I dont think we need that detail, to understand them as consecutive physical empires works well. But I can explain the two beasts of Rev 13 in terms of demonic princes if you are interested.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

                      Originally posted by randyk View Post
                      It seems the False Prophet is more like Nebuchadnezzar making his people worship his great image?

                      Dan 3.4 Then the herald loudly proclaimed, “Nations and peoples of every language, this is what you are commanded to do: 5 As soon as you hear the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp, pipe and all kinds of music, you must fall down and worship the image of gold that King Nebuchadnezzar has set up. 6 Whoever does not fall down and worship will immediately be thrown into a blazing furnace.”
                      In this example it doesn't appear to show a trinity of any kind. Yet it does seem very similar to what the fp causes those on the earth to do at the time.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

                        Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
                        But I can explain the two beasts of Rev 13 in terms of demonic princes if you are interested.

                        I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on that. Dan 10, for one, comes to mind when it comes to things like that. I don't know if your explaining of these things might be based on that chapter though, but if it is, it shouldn't require much on your part as to getting us on the same page here.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

                          Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
                          I don't think anyone has found scriptural ref to the fp in the Book of Daniel. Key scriptures are (there are more):

                          beast/anti-christ: Rev 13; 1 John 2&4; Dan 7&8; 2 Thess 2.
                          fp: Rev 13; 16; and 20.
                          Since you mentioned Dan 7 & 8, and that some conclude the little horn in Dan 7 is not the same little horn meant in Dan 8, I then have to wonder why they at least won't accept that some of Dan 8 is in regards to endtimes events. If they are not the same entity, yet involve the endtimes, regardless, could one of them be meaning the ac, and the other one be meaning the fp? Probably not, so that would have to mean they are the same entity then, though some disagree they are. But even so, there is no denying that some of Dan 8 involves the endtimes, though some obviously deny it. But just because they might deny it does not prove they are correct to do so.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

                            Originally posted by divaD View Post
                            Since you mentioned Dan 7 & 8, and that some conclude the little horn in Dan 7 is not the same little horn meant in Dan 8, I then have to wonder why they at least won't accept that some of Dan 8 is in regards to endtimes events. If they are not the same entity, yet involve the endtimes, regardless, could one of them be meaning the ac, and the other one be meaning the fp? Probably not, so that would have to mean they are the same entity then, though some disagree they are. But even so, there is no denying that some of Dan 8 involves the endtimes, though some obviously deny it. But just because they might deny it does not prove they are correct to do so.
                            Daniel heavily foretells of events during the Trib

                            As for the 2nd half of your post.

                            Rev 16 explains that the person who is "the beast/THE anti-christ) is demon possessed (some say, satan himself - 2 Thess 9 and Rev 13). This is why in some other post I equated this with satan's continued imitation of God. The "beast" is possessed by a demon, imitation of the Holy Spirit indwelling believers and in both cases, power is imbued. From satan, through the demon (ac/fp) and from God, all believers.

                            As for the fp, both Rev 13 and 16 id how this person (a separate person from the beast) assists the beast and is also, possessed/empowered the same way.
                            Slug1--out

                            ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

                              Originally posted by divaD View Post
                              I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on that. Dan 10, for one, comes to mind when it comes to things like that. I don't know if your explaining of these things might be based on that chapter though, but if it is, it shouldn't require much on your part as to getting us on the same page here.
                              Dan 7 says the 4 beasts are 4 kingdoms and 4 kings. These kingdoms last hundreds of years, therefore there should be 4 kingdoms and like 100 human kings. But there are only 4 kings attached to those 4 kingdoms, the only kings that can last for hundreds of years like that are demon kings.

                              The four great beasts are four kings that will rise from the earth

                              Now the divided Rome of two feet of Dan 2 is obviously referring to one kingdom, with two parts ie two capitals of the Roman Empire being Rome and Istanbul. These represent the 4th Empire, the 4th beast.


                              Then let's jump to Dan 7, this same 4th beast has ten horns, and among them arises the little horn. This speaks of a new location and new human king involved in the 4th beast.
                              We know from 2 Thess 2 that the new location of the capital of the Roman Empire is Jerusalem, but this is where there is a twist in the tale. Instead of the same demon prince ruling from Jerusalem, the Roman beast stays in his two capitals, and consolidates his Roman Empire by supporting the re-arising of an ancient demon-beast, an antichrist demon/beast. This demon prince seems to be based in the Levant (Syria/Israel) and seems driven to take the place of God in that area. Manifested through Baal, then Antiochus, and then through the Jewish rejection of Jesus, and through the false Messiahs of the Jewish Revolt. It seems this demon disappeared in 70 AD, being closely associated with false Jewish beliefs in Israel. When Israel dispersed into captivity the demon no longer had power in the region.

                              This little horn, is the first beast of Rev 13, being the re-arising demon prince, and also the final manifestation of the Roman Empire, moved to Israel.

                              The second beast with two locations is the Roman Demon, who supports the re-arising Syrian/Israel beast. So I am saying that the divided Rome of Daniel 2 is the two horned false Prophet of Rev 13, the two little horns being the Vatican in Rome and the Caliphate in Istanbul, two small locations but with vast religious authority over the nations.

                              Dan 2: Roman two feet = second Roman beast with 2 horns (two part false Prophet)
                              Dan 7: little horn with a mouth = beast who re-appears, given a mouth

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                              • #75
                                Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

                                Originally posted by Deade View Post
                                [FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR="#8B0000"]I agree wholeheartedly with ewq about the false prophet and antichrist being the same person.
                                Haha I do to. I see the dual role also as seen in Jesus in that when he is Christ prophesised to come, He was also the prophet who was foretold to come, this seems to fulfil the role of antichrist even more, I have a unique view on 666, so to incorporate it, I see the first beast as antichrist/Fp who is thrown into the LoF at the end of the tribulation, I see the second beast as Satan who ascends out of the pit, he is thrown into the pit for 1000yrs at the end of the tribulation, and the 3rd beast is the image and the second beast was given power to give breath to the image that the image should speak and cause those who do not worship the ac/fp to be killed, this abominable third beast will be thrown into the LoF with the FP at the end of the tribulation.

                                I will also add that I think we need to view Revelation 12 as the history of the world from beginning to end, as an overview.
                                I tend to view rev 12 as Israels history explaining events of the coming Messiah, which includes both comings for clarification.

                                Satan was cast out of heaven before the Garden of Eden. That is not some future event.
                                Some will say Satan is cast out in Eden and use Rev 12 as there proof, some will say in the future and use rev 12 as their proof, and funnily enough some somehow agree that both are true.

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