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RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

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  • #76
    Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

    Originally posted by boangry View Post
    Haha I do to. I see the dual role also as seen in Jesus in that when he is Christ prophesised to come, He was also the prophet who was foretold to come, this seems to fulfil the role of antichrist even more, I have a unique view on 666, so to incorporate it, I see the first beast as antichrist/Fp who is thrown into the LoF at the end of the tribulation, I see the second beast as Satan who ascends out of the pit, he is thrown into the pit for 1000yrs at the end of the tribulation, and the 3rd beast is the image and the second beast was given power to give breath to the image that the image should speak and cause those who do not worship the ac/fp to be killed, this abominable third beast will be thrown into the LoF with the FP at the end of the tribulation.
    (note: verse for clarification)Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

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    • #77
      Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

      Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
      The spirit of the anti-christ can be associated with any rebellion against God through it's "influence." Influence a nation's ruler and the nation will follow or be forced by the ruler.

      During the Trib, a person will be actually empowered by this spirit... much more than just being influenced. Thus the ability to force the world (not just a region ).
      I certainly agree that the world--not just Europe--will be "influenced." His will be a world power, meaning that the rest of the world will not be able to unseat his throne in Europe--at least, not until Armageddon.

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      • #78
        Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

        Originally posted by divaD View Post
        In this example it doesn't appear to show a trinity of any kind. Yet it does seem very similar to what the fp causes those on the earth to do at the time.
        Yea, exactly. It's not really found in Daniel, is it? It's just there conceptually, that the Antichrist will somehow impose his "image"--whatever that is--upon his region, at the threat of death. I happen to think this is symbolic, although I suppose it could be literal in some way--just as it was literal in Daniel's time.

        Inasmuch as the False Prophet is portrayed as an animal, just as the Beast is portrayed as an animal, I think we need to view these men through the lens of symbolism. We know the Antichrist represents a coalition of nations--a confederation under Antichrist--an empire. So I tend to view the False Prophet the same way, as a bilateral political coalition established in support of the Antichristian Empire. Perhaps it takes place outside of Antichrist's domain in Europe?

        In fact, the 1st Beast emerges out of the sea, whereas the 2nd Beast emerges out of the land. This seems to represent two separate geographical locations. Perhaps the bilateral coalition of the 2nd Beast is represented outside of Rome's traditional European area--perhaps in Mediterranean Africa and in the Near East! These are areas within the traditional territory of the Roman Empire, and yet outside of Europe. And they include both land and sea area.

        But the sense of there being a false prophet supporting the succession of Beasts comes directly from Dan 3. The idea that a bilateral coalition, associated with the Roman tradition, comes into existence alongside the Antichrist is not found outside of Revelation 13, that I know of.

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        • #79
          Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

          Originally posted by divaD View Post
          I wonder if anyone can pinpoint who the fp is meaning in the book of Daniel?
          The little horn. The little horn and FP are the same person. The reason the FP has two little horns is because he is the 7th and 8th king of the Rev 13 beast, a dual role as a king...one silent and secret, and one who will claim to be God. I also see this as a military role and then a religious role.


          We can pretty much pinpoint who the ac is meaning in the book of Daniel, so where can the fp be found in the book of Daniel? You would think he would have to be in the texts somewhere.
          See, In Daniel everyone accepts there is a ten horned beast which is some type of empire, then a singular person who is the AC. There is no other person who is second in command.
          In Rev we see the same exact players, a ten horned beast and then a singular person who comes and is the AC. Neither book uses AC of course, they have their own names...little horn and false prophet. For some reason people think a prophet isn't a leader and so another person is invented because the text sure doesn't tell us about this other guy and thus Rev 13 has a ten horned beast, this "AC" which the text never mentions, and the false prophet who is second in command to a ghost character.

          Yes, it is confusing that the ten horned beast is given a mouth and says similar things that the little horn says but also that means the ten horned beast does not have a mouth in Daniel. Rev and Daniel almost match but there are differences so we have to take that into account.
          James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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          • #80
            Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

            Originally posted by divaD View Post

            So I would think, based on these things here, the one in the unholy trinity playing the role of the Son which resembles closest to the Son in the holy trinity, appears to be the beast, thus making the beast the ac.
            Except the "beast" is said to be ten kings and 7 mountains so that makes that beast unable to be the AC since the AC is a person not a bunch of kings and kingdoms.
            James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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            • #81
              Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

              Originally posted by randyk View Post
              It seems the False Prophet is more like Nebuchadnezzar making his people worship his great image?

              Dan 3.4 Then the herald loudly proclaimed, “Nations and peoples of every language, this is what you are commanded to do: 5 As soon as you hear the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp, pipe and all kinds of music, you must fall down and worship the image of gold that King Nebuchadnezzar has set up. 6 Whoever does not fall down and worship will immediately be thrown into a blazing furnace.”
              Yes and that didn't mean he wasn't still the leader, he just wanted the image to be worshiped. In Rev 13, the FP wants his own global empire worshiped. That doesn't mean he doesn't demand worship of himself as well, we just have to look outside of Rev to find that out.
              James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

              Comment


              • #82
                Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

                Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                Yes and that didn't mean he wasn't still the leader, he just wanted the image to be worshiped. In Rev 13, the FP wants his own global empire worshiped. That doesn't mean he doesn't demand worship of himself as well, we just have to look outside of Rev to find that out.
                The reason I see the 2 Beasts as two men is due to their description in Revelation...

                16.13; 19.20; 20.10.

                Furthermore, the 1st Beast is described in Dan 7 as a confederation of 10 nations, led by the Antichrist. This is the 1st Beast of Rev 13, in my view.

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                • #83
                  Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

                  Originally posted by randyk View Post
                  The reason I see the 2 Beasts as two men is due to their description in Revelation...
                  But Rev 17 explains what the first beast is and it is not a man. Only the second beast is a man.



                  Furthermore, the 1st Beast is described in Dan 7 as a confederation of 10 nations, led by the Antichrist. This is the 1st Beast of Rev 13, in my view.
                  It is and the same two are in Rev, a confederation of 10 nations, led by the Antichrist. In Daniel the AC is called the little horn, in Rev he is called the false prophet. The issue is you take the confederation of 10 nations and say the AC is there and place the FP under him yet in Daniel there is no AC who is the confederation of 10 nations.

                  In both books there is the confederation of 10 nations, and ONE SINGULAR PERSON who leads it. There aren't two people in Rev anymore than there is in Daniel.
                  James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

                    Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                    But Rev 17 explains what the first beast is and it is not a man. Only the second beast is a man.





                    It is and the same two are in Rev, a confederation of 10 nations, led by the Antichrist. In Daniel the AC is called the little horn, in Rev he is called the false prophet. The issue is you take the confederation of 10 nations and say the AC is there and place the FP under him yet in Daniel there is no AC who is the confederation of 10 nations.

                    In both books there is the confederation of 10 nations, and ONE SINGULAR PERSON who leads it. There aren't two people in Rev anymore than there is in Daniel.
                    Apology for my tone in an earlier post, it's the wrong way to express my frustration when I feel the Bible wording is misunderstood.

                    You are correct to match the 10 horned beast of Dan 7 with that of Rev 13 that is why I'm joining in now, to acknowledge your point and yet explain how better to look at it.

                    The first beast of Rev 13 is an end times entity. He is new to the scene, he arises out the pit, and he was and is not. In other words this demon king /beast used to have authority in ages past, but arises anew at the end. He re-arises to take over the 10 horned beast with the full authority of Satan. This demon king is not Roman, he is based in the Levant area, Syria/Israel, yet Satan gives him power and authority over the ten horned Roman Empire.

                    So I do understand your view better now, if you associate the first beast with the long-standing ten horned Rome, then it seems the other beast is associated with the little horn of end time rule.

                    Instead I see it the other way around, the first beast arises out the sea at the end, also seen as arising out the pit. He is given control over the 10 horned empire.

                    The fact that they both have a human mouth, both the little horn and the first beast, they both are boastful, they both rule for 3.5 years and they both persecute the saints, points to the little horn matching the first beast.

                    The second beast has two little horns, not ten horns, so it's difficult to see this as matching the historical Roman Empire of which the little horn takes control over. (direct control over 3, indirect control over 10)

                    I see this as the religious element of the two feet of Daniel 2, Rome divided into two religious empires, 1 based in Rome, 1 based in Istanbul. When the antichrist comes to power (the mouth of the beast /horn) he will have the full support of the religions based in Rome and Istanbul, bringing unity between the 3 Torah based religions. The full might of the EU and Turkey will be behind him.

                    Thus the two horned false prophet is ancient Rome, and the ten horned beast is the new little horn power which takes over the ten horned Roman beast.

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                    • #85
                      Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

                      Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
                      Apology for my tone in an earlier post, it's the wrong way to express my frustration when I feel the Bible wording is misunderstood.
                      Thanks.



                      You are correct to match the 10 horned beast of Dan 7 with that of Rev 13 that is why I'm joining in now, to acknowledge your point and yet explain how better to look at it.

                      The first beast of Rev 13 is an end times entity. He is new to the scene, he arises out the pit, and he was and is not. In other words this demon king /beast used to have authority in ages past, but arises anew at the end. He re-arises to take over the 10 horned beast with the full authority of Satan.
                      The main issue is you speak of the Rev 13:1 beast as if it is a person but it isn't. It's tons of people...the sea are people...this thing rises out of the people because it is ten kingdoms and kings ruling over people of the world. Where is the one single person who leads it other than the false prophet?



                      So I do understand your view better now, if you associate the first beast with the long-standing ten horned Rome, then it seems the other beast is associated with the little horn of end time rule.
                      And if it helps, I see the ten horned beast of Rev 13 just like the ten horned beast of Daniel....neither are the AC. They are the empire that the AC will rule over and the AC is always the singular person that is mentioned after the ten horned beast is mentioned.




                      Instead I see it the other way around, the first beast arises out the sea at the end, also seen as arising out the pit. He is given control over the 10 horned empire.
                      Can you show that happening in Rev 13? I can, but it's the 2nd beast who has control over the ten horned beast.



                      The fact that they both have a human mouth, both the little horn and the first beast, they both are boastful, they both rule for 3.5 years and they both persecute the saints, points to the little horn matching the first beast.
                      The little horn rose out of the Daniel beast, a last character in the story. There is no second of command. It's the same in Rev 13, same ten horned beast empire, same other singular person...also no second in command in Rev 13.
                      James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

                        Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                        But you do understand that a government or empire can have a mouth that isn't belonging to a person but to the corporate concept.
                        Sure there is flexibility with symbols, a mouth can be anything. But when you have a boastful man in 2 Thess 2 gaining authority with signs and wonders and ruling until the second coming, it's easy to see matching events and timing.

                        Also the little horn in Dan 7 has the same timing and description, and yet is described as a king. Yet this king is the little horn with a mouth and eyes (human characteristics)

                        So on the whole, a picture emerges of a man ruling for 3.5 years, the mouth of the beast. A beast being an empire, and also a demon king in control of that empire.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

                          Note: Read the following verses of 2 Thessalonians 2 without the italicized words added by translators.


                          2 Thessalonians 2:1 KJV

                          Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

                          By the coming of the Lord and our gathering unto Him, a string of three things happen.


                          2 Thessalonians 2:2-3 KJV

                          That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
                          [3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


                          Do not be shaken in mind and bothered by the spirit, by word or epistle from the apostles when the string of things happen as that day of gathering unto the Christ draws near.

                          Three sequential things will happen to the lawless one (who does not do the will of God) as follows:
                          1. falling away first
                          2. revelation of that man of sin
                          3. destruction of the son the perdition


                          In other words, without the falling away first of the lawless one (#1) taking place, revelation of that man of sin (#2) will be restrained. So, #1 restrains #2.

                          And, without revelation of that man of sin (#2) taking place, there will be no destruction of the son of perdition (#3). So, #2 restrains #3.


                          2 Thessalonians 2:6-8 KJV

                          And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
                          [7] For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
                          [8] And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:


                          The mystery of iniquity perpetrated by the lawless on is already at work. But, he will not be destroyed until he is first taken out the way and then revealed as that man of sin.

                          After the lawless man is first taken out of the way and subsequently revealed as that man of sin, then the Spirit of the Christ's mouth and the brightness (glory) of His coming will destroy the lawless man.

                          Those to whom the Lord Jesus Christ has already come are gathered in His body.
                          Grace and peace unto you from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ!

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                          • #88
                            Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

                            Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                            Except the "beast" is said to be ten kings and 7 mountains so that makes that beast unable to be the AC since the AC is a person not a bunch of kings and kingdoms.
                            I recently did a Google search for the false prophet is the antichrist. Initially I wasn't finding any links where anyone was concluding that. Then finally after browsing through many pages of hits by Google, the following link shows up in my search query. So I went to the link, the article is 6 parts. I read all 6 parts. Some of the arguments I found somewhat convincing. The author made some good points. I'm not as of yet convinced the ac and the fp are one and the same though. But I did see the logic in some of his arguments. So I'm still thinking it over.

                            Here's the link if anyone wants to take a look at it. Even though it's 6 parts, it's a pretty easy read for the most part.

                            https://www.babylonsingularity.com/j...why-it-matters

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                            • #89
                              Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

                              Originally Posted by divaD

                              I recently did a Google search for the false prophet is the antichrist. Initially I wasn't finding any links where anyone was concluding that. Then finally after browsing through many pages of hits by Google, the following link shows up in my search query. So I went to the link, the article is 6 parts. I read all 6 parts. Some of the arguments I found somewhat convincing. The author made some good points. I'm not as of yet convinced the ac and the fp are one and the same though. But I did see the logic in some of his arguments. So I'm still thinking it over.

                              Here's the link if anyone wants to take a look at it. Even though it's 6 parts, it's a pretty easy read for the most part.

                              https://www.babylonsingularity.com/j...why-it-matters


                              I'll have to view the link tonight

                              Sure seems Rev 13 is clear in that each beast is not the same person, specifically v11+ Each has a purpose where the 2nd beast complements the 1st beast in that both are empowered supernaturally the same but the 2nd beast uses their power to point (deceive) all eyes, ears, and hearts at/too the 1st beast in effort to get the world to worship the 1st beast.

                              Clearly two separate persons.
                              Slug1--out

                              ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Re: RESTRAINS THE REVEALING OF EVIL

                                Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                                But Rev 17 explains what the first beast is and it is not a man. Only the second beast is a man.

                                It is and the same two are in Rev, a confederation of 10 nations, led by the Antichrist. In Daniel the AC is called the little horn, in Rev he is called the false prophet. The issue is you take the confederation of 10 nations and say the AC is there and place the FP under him yet in Daniel there is no AC who is the confederation of 10 nations.

                                In both books there is the confederation of 10 nations, and ONE SINGULAR PERSON who leads it. There aren't two people in Rev anymore than there is in Daniel.
                                Rev 16.13; 19.20; 20.10. These seem to show 2 men--not an empire and a man.

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