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  • Re: The False Prophet

    Originally posted by Revelation Man View Post



    The First Beast of Revelation 13 is a MAN.....Men don't come back from the grave brother.
    A man doesn't have 7 heads or ten horns either, and no one died in Rev 13 so, no, the Rev 13 first beast is not a man. It's a large empire of ten united kingdoms according to Rev 17. The man beast is the second beast, the FP.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    • Re: The False Prophet

      Originally posted by marty fox View Post
      That was before the cross this is what Jesus says now

      Revelation 3:14
      14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:

      These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation.
      marty, if you can stand a gentle correction, it doesn't matter when Satan is the ruler of this world.

      Antichrist thinking, atheist thinking says, "If God was ruling on earth, sin wouldn't exist. If God was ruling on earth, the earth wouldn't be filled with chaos".

      Originally posted by marty fox View Post
      People just don’t understand what the ruling is
      Right. They don't understand the patience of God. His mercy is thought of as weakness. They don't understand what Jesus means when he says, the ruler of dog poop is coming....and has nothing in me,

      And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. Rev.11:15

      He means, now to them. He's saying, now they're aware of what has always been true,

      to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men Dan.4:17

      Comment


      • Re: The False Prophet

        Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
        Yet the thousand years can be longer than that but a season and a time must be 90 days? That makes no sense at all. A season and a time is an unknown and undefined amount of time and since that passage matches a beast being cast into the LOF and lives being prolonged for a period of time matches the beast cast into the LOF in Rev 19 and then a period of time where lives are prolonged for a thousand years. Daniel's season and a time is definitely one of the earliest references to the Millennium.
        A "time" is 360 days if we go by the translation of time, times, half of time.

        In our lives a season is 90 days. Thus it would be logical to assume a season here is 90 days unless otherwise noted.

        So we have a total of 450 days.

        Comment


        • Re: The False Prophet

          Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
          A "time" is 360 days if we go by the translation of time, times, half of time.

          In our lives a season is 90 days. Thus it would be logical to assume a season here is 90 days unless otherwise noted.

          So we have a total of 450 days.
          Can you show us which 450 days it is meaning then?

          The only reason some of us think the thousand years and little season is meant here, is because their lives are prolonged after the beast is given to the burning flame. Assuming the beast is given to the burning flame at the 2nd coming, and assuming Amil, even your interpretation doesn't make sense since there would be no such thing in Amil as 450 days post the 2nd coming.

          If someone can show, that when their lives are prolonged, that this is not even meaning after the beast is given to the burning flame, in that case, the likelihood of the thousand years and a little season being meant would be pretty much zero.

          Comment


          • Re: The False Prophet

            Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
            A "time" is 360 days if we go by the translation of time, times, half of time.

            In our lives a season is 90 days. Thus it would be logical to assume a season here is 90 days unless otherwise noted.

            So we have a total of 450 days.
            What would be the logic in having their lives prolonged for just 450 days? What purpose does this extra 450 days serve? And why are they being given an extra 450 days to begin with?

            Comment


            • Re: The False Prophet

              Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
              It's a large empire of ten united kingdoms according to Rev 17. The man beast is the second beast, the FP.

              Maybe it's just me, but I would think when it comes to worshiping someone, the worshiping typically involves the worshiping of a single entity, such as the man beast you conclude is meaning the ac. But the text does not say he is being worshiped nor is even trying to be worshiped, but is directing worship to the first beast, who you conclude is a large empire of ten united kingdoms. We also have to keep in mind, if this is who the first beast is, when the beast gets cast into the LOF, this means this large empire of ten united kingdoms get cast into the LOF at the 2nd coming, since these would be the beast per your understanding.

              Comment


              • Re: The False Prophet

                Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                True.

                Satan isn't a personal name although we do use it in that way. All the "names" he has are really just descriptions of who he is morally. The word satan means adversary, devil means accuser, apollyon means destroyer and abaddon means destruction, dragon means a great serpent and serpent is just serpent implying deception and danger. When these are read in context it is always the one we call "Satan". They are not different beings in context.


                Barnes:
                Whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon - The name Abaddon means literally “destruction,” and is the same as Apollyon.

                Clarke:
                Abaddon - From ??? abad, he destroyed.
                Apollyon - From ap?, intensive, and ?????, to destroy. The meaning is the same both in the Hebrew and Greek.

                Gill:
                whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon; both which signify a "destroyer"



                apollyon means destroyer

                Joh_10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

                Satan is the thief who wants to destroy just as the word Apollyon means to destroy.

                abaddon means destruction

                1Co_5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

                Here Satan does cause destruction. To destroy or cause destruction is the same concept which is why scholars say the two names have the same meaning.
                Absolutely agree, but the problem in accepting this view is that a lot of people have what they believe and then they read scripture and then bend the meaning of words to there viewpoint to make it fit. Im not trying to exclude myself here, because im just as susceptible. But there are people who do actually deny they do this

                I know others who once agreed that Abaddon and Satan are one and the same person. Then the realisation to what that implication may actually mean comes along, and then they become stuck with a choice to change another belief they hold or to change this belief and they mostly decide wrongly that Abaddon/Apollyon must indeed be a different entity to Satan.

                If I can give a reason to change your mind for I am curious to which way you will go.

                If Satan and Abaddon are the same person then would you agree that Satan is the angel of the bottomless pit and the king over the demons there, which means they are released accordingly to Rev 9 when the fifth angel sounds. And if you do can I ask you when did the demons he rules over get put into the pit, and when did Satan get put into the pit?

                For me its rather simple, for example read this account in Luke ch 8

                When Jesus stepped ashore, he was met by a demon-possessed man from the town. For a long time this man had not worn clothes or lived in a house, but had lived in the tombs. When he saw Jesus, he cried out and fell at his feet, shouting at the top of his voice, “What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg you, don’t torture me!” For Jesus had commanded the impure spirit to come out of the man. Many times it had seized him, and though he was chained hand and foot and kept under guard, he had broken his chains and had been driven by the demon into solitary places.

                Jesus asked him, “What is your name?”

                “Legion,” he replied, because many demons had gone into him. And they begged Jesus repeatedly not to order them to go into the Abyss.

                If I can over explain the story here with out elaborating too much or I would end up writing out a sermon, These two demon possessed men here are a picture of Israel, yet we are probably in a gentile region on the sea of Galilee, notice the name legion, the demons were sent to Israel and here we have a non Jewish term, we have Roman terminology that describes the numbers of a army unit, for Israel are occupied by a foreign army, so we have a picture of deliverance for Israel albeit this is looking forward to the end of Daniels 70th week, but we can see that the Lord has authority and power to deliver Israel, As with most pictures in the gospels they have a physical and spiritual application and Jesus has the power to deliver us from our sins too.

                Anyway keeping on topic, we know the lake of fire is prepared for the devil and his angels, so why are these demons not pleading to Jesus o do not send us into the lake of fire we beg of you? instead they are imploring the Lord to not send them into the pit/abyss and ask to be sent into the herd of swine. I take it we can see that the demons have an understanding that they are going to be cast not into the LoF yet but into the pit.

                Luke 8:32-33 A large herd of pigs was feeding there on the hillside. The demons begged Jesus to let them go into the pigs, and he gave them permission. When the demons came out of the man, they went into the pigs, and the herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and was drowned.

                Jesus granted them permission to enter the swine, yet the swine would not accept such a degradation, and ran headlong down into the deep water, and the demons still ended up in the abyss. Interesting fact the sea of galilee is near 200ft below sea level, and was a well known Idiom for the abyss at the time, also of interest is why did the Lord allow them to go enter the swine? The lord does nothing without reason he is conveying or imparting truth to us here, could it be when the demons are released from the pit, that its not just Israel in view to go torment, but the gentiles as well. The swine picturing the gentiles that are ceremonially unclean?

                This really is to show that I believe the demons that were cast out in the gospel accounts are cast into the pit, ready to be released in the tribulation along with Satan who rules over them (in the sense they followed him)

                And because people believe the demons and Satan are running around today doing who knows what (I mean that literally for nobody seems to knows what) they will disagree with all the verses and the spiritual pictures that seem to point to demons being now in the pit, And this effects how people sees what scripture says (again I see that im just as capable of seeing that scripture says the opposite for I don't believe that demons are running around possessing people)

                For example if there are four verses, two seem to say Satan is cast out and now bound, and two seem to say Satan is going around causing mischief, I guess all We can ask is for honest application of scripture while trying the best to ignore our own preconceived views, and work out which ones are spiritual applications and which ones are literal for scripture does not and cannot contradict itself. Ive noticed God seems to creates a way in His Word, for people to be able to reject things and find contradictions in His word if they want to or conversely leaves a way for people to harmonise things.

                And yes I realise you may have a view that has Satan on earth now, in heaven now and still be in the pit in the tribulation, and Im all ears :-)

                Comment


                • Re: The False Prophet

                  Originally posted by divaD View Post
                  Maybe it's just me, but I would think when it comes to worshiping someone, the worshiping typically involves the worshiping of a single entity, such as the man beast you conclude is meaning the ac. But the text does not say he is being worshiped nor is even trying to be worshiped, but is directing worship to the first beast, who you conclude is a large empire of ten united kingdoms. We also have to keep in mind, if this is who the first beast is, when the beast gets cast into the LOF, this means this large empire of ten united kingdoms get cast into the LOF at the 2nd coming, since these would be the beast per your understanding.
                  I also tend to think the image that is built is of the first beast, and like Nebuchadnezzar's image it will be a man, so my logic tells me the first beast is also a man.

                  Comment


                  • Re: The False Prophet

                    Originally posted by boangry View Post
                    Absolutely agree, but the problem in accepting this view is that a lot of people have what they believe and then they read scripture and then bend the meaning of words to there viewpoint to make it fit. Im not trying to exclude myself here, because im just as susceptible. But there are people who do actually deny they do this

                    I know others who once agreed that Abaddon and Satan are one and the same person. Then the realisation to what that implication may actually mean comes along, and then they become stuck with a choice to change another belief they hold or to change this belief and they mostly decide wrongly that Abaddon/Apollyon must indeed be a different entity to Satan.

                    If I can give a reason to change your mind for I am curious to which way you will go.

                    If Satan and Abaddon are the same person then would you agree that Satan is the angel of the bottomless pit and the king over the demons there, which means they are released accordingly to Rev 9 when the fifth angel sounds. And if you do can I ask you when did the demons he rules over get put into the pit, and when did Satan get put into the pit?

                    For me its rather simple, for example read this account in Luke ch 8

                    When Jesus stepped ashore, he was met by a demon-possessed man from the town. For a long time this man had not worn clothes or lived in a house, but had lived in the tombs. When he saw Jesus, he cried out and fell at his feet, shouting at the top of his voice, “What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg you, don’t torture me!” For Jesus had commanded the impure spirit to come out of the man. Many times it had seized him, and though he was chained hand and foot and kept under guard, he had broken his chains and had been driven by the demon into solitary places.

                    Jesus asked him, “What is your name?”

                    “Legion,” he replied, because many demons had gone into him. And they begged Jesus repeatedly not to order them to go into the Abyss.

                    If I can over explain the story here with out elaborating too much or I would end up writing out a sermon, These two demon possessed men here are a picture of Israel, yet we are probably in a gentile region on the sea of Galilee, notice the name legion, the demons were sent to Israel and here we have a non Jewish term, we have Roman terminology that describes the numbers of a army unit, for Israel are occupied by a foreign army, so we have a picture of deliverance for Israel albeit this is looking forward to the end of Daniels 70th week, but we can see that the Lord has authority and power to deliver Israel, As with most pictures in the gospels they have a physical and spiritual application and Jesus has the power to deliver us from our sins too.

                    Anyway keeping on topic, we know the lake of fire is prepared for the devil and his angels, so why are these demons not pleading to Jesus o do not send us into the lake of fire we beg of you? instead they are imploring the Lord to not send them into the pit/abyss and ask to be sent into the herd of swine. I take it we can see that the demons have an understanding that they are going to be cast not into the LoF yet but into the pit.

                    Luke 8:32-33 A large herd of pigs was feeding there on the hillside. The demons begged Jesus to let them go into the pigs, and he gave them permission. When the demons came out of the man, they went into the pigs, and the herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and was drowned.

                    Jesus granted them permission to enter the swine, yet the swine would not accept such a degradation, and ran headlong down into the deep water, and the demons still ended up in the abyss. Interesting fact the sea of galilee is near 200ft below sea level, and was a well known Idiom for the abyss at the time, also of interest is why did the Lord allow them to go enter the swine? The lord does nothing without reason he is conveying or imparting truth to us here, could it be when the demons are released from the pit, that its not just Israel in view to go torment, but the gentiles as well. The swine picturing the gentiles that are ceremonially unclean?

                    This really is to show that I believe the demons that were cast out in the gospel accounts are cast into the pit, ready to be released in the tribulation along with Satan who rules over them (in the sense they followed him)

                    And because people believe the demons and Satan are running around today doing who knows what (I mean that literally for nobody seems to knows what) they will disagree with all the verses and the spiritual pictures that seem to point to demons being now in the pit, And this effects how people sees what scripture says (again I see that im just as capable of seeing that scripture says the opposite for I don't believe that demons are running around possessing people)

                    For example if there are four verses, two seem to say Satan is cast out and now bound, and two seem to say Satan is going around causing mischief, I guess all We can ask is for honest application of scripture while trying the best to ignore our own preconceived views, and work out which ones are spiritual applications and which ones are literal for scripture does not and cannot contradict itself. Ive noticed God seems to creates a way in His Word, for people to be able to reject things and find contradictions in His word if they want to or conversely leaves a way for people to harmonise things.

                    And yes I realise you may have a view that has Satan on earth now, in heaven now and still be in the pit in the tribulation, and Im all ears :-)
                    If satan and abaddon are the same person, this proves Amil, thus Premil is not even a valid position in that case.

                    Comment


                    • Re: The False Prophet

                      Originally posted by boangry View Post
                      I also tend to think the image that is built is of the first beast, and like Nebuchadnezzar's image it will be a man, so my logic tells me the first beast is also a man.
                      The beast has 7 heads though. We have to factor that in.

                      Comment


                      • Re: The False Prophet

                        Originally posted by divaD View Post
                        If satan and abaddon are the same person, this proves Amil, thus Premil is not even a valid position in that case.
                        Sorry but I cant see your reasoning if you would elaborate on why you see this?

                        I see abaddon/Satan being released during the tribulation in which he will deceive the nations with lying wonders etc, then Satan being thrown back into the pit for a 1000 more according to Rev 20 to deceive the nations no more till the end of the 1000yrs then he will go out and gather them again.

                        Comment


                        • Re: The False Prophet

                          Originally posted by divaD View Post
                          The beast has 7 heads though. We have to factor that in.
                          I simply see the heads as symbolic of seven kings that have ruled over the seven empires, The Antichrist is the seventh fulfilment, and will rule over the earth. It is the easiest and simplest way to express this man as a part of and the same as the other previous world rulers God has put in place. It grants us insight as to what type of a man he will be, etc etc

                          Comment


                          • Re: The False Prophet

                            Originally posted by boangry View Post
                            Sorry but I cant see your reasoning if you would elaborate on why you see this?

                            I see abaddon/Satan being released during the tribulation in which he will deceive the nations with lying wonders etc, then Satan being thrown back into the pit for a 1000 more according to Rev 20 to deceive the nations no more till the end of the 1000yrs then he will go out and gather them again.
                            satan is only in the pit one time, that being during the thousand years. If he seen coming out of the pit in Rev 9, that assuming he is abaddon, the only way he could have gotten in there to begin with, would be when he is cast into it by the angel that comes down from heaven in Rev 20:1.

                            But let's look at this a different way instead.

                            Revelation 9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
                            4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
                            5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
                            6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.


                            And it was commanded them that they should not hurt...but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

                            Why would satan be attacking and tormenting his own followers, rather than attacking and tormenting the followers of Christ instead? Anyone not having the seal of God in their forehead, would obviously be men of satan, and not men of God. So it seems to me that these locusts being let out, are serving God's purposes and not satan's purposes instead.

                            Revelation 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

                            Why would satan be the angel of the bottomless pit? It seems to me, when he gets cast into it in Rev 20:1-3, that he is probably not exactly thrilled about it. And if he is the angel of it, why does Rev 20:1-3 have him depicted as locked and chained within the place he is supposed to be the angel of?

                            Comment


                            • Re: The False Prophet

                              Originally posted by boangry View Post
                              I simply see the heads as symbolic of seven kings that have ruled over the seven empires, The Antichrist is the seventh fulfilment, and will rule over the earth. It is the easiest and simplest way to express this man as a part of and the same as the other previous world rulers God has put in place. It grants us insight as to what type of a man he will be, etc etc
                              But why does there even need to be a 7 headed beast rising out of the sea, if 6 of it's heads play no part in anything? I still tend to think that the 4 beasts we see in Dan 7, they all merged into the single beast we see in Rev 13.

                              Comment


                              • Re: The False Prophet

                                Originally posted by divaD View Post
                                But why does there even need to be a 7 headed beast rising out of the sea, if 6 of it's heads play no part in anything?
                                But they have all played a role, Gentiles have been used by God against Israel, God declared that there would be 70 weeks to fulfil judgment against Israel, but this is also to bring restoration to Israel to once again have someone sitting on the throne of David and over the Holy nation, For God has promised this fulfilment in His Word.

                                And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled Luke 21:24 Which is until the end of the 70weeks, the end of the tribulation. The 70 weeks began during the Babylonian conquest of Jerusalem, and as foretold there would be four beasts/kingdoms to rule until this time period is fulfilled.

                                So the picture of seven heads explains concisely how this is a continuation of this fulfilment of Gods set time frame for Israel, Imagine if we did not have this picture, and we are simply told there will arise a world leader (with one head)and he will rule the world. How could we begin to deduce why and what God is using him for?


                                I still tend to think that the 4 beasts we see in Dan 7, they all merged into the single beast we see in Rev 13.
                                I try and stay away from discussions about this, as I misunderstand what people are meaning and vice versa, but I think I agree with you the forth beast is dreadful and terrible, "The forth beast shall be a forth kingdom which shall be different from all other kingdoms and shall devour the whole earth" and In Rev it is given the attributes of the three previous beasts, also in Daniel there appears to be no animal characteristics, till we get to Rev and I wonder if the dragon would be the perfect description of a terrible destructive kingdom the end gentile kingdom with all the previous attributes combined, which again is expressing the 7 heads and modem of Satan operating in the background.

                                Comment

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