The False Prophet

[DurbanDude]

Re: The False Prophet

Satan isn't the angel who has the key to the pit. A different angel has that key and imprisons Satan in the pit. Wouldn't make sense if the most evil person in history has the key to his own prison.

Rev 9:1* And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.*

Rev 20:1* And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.*
Rev 20:2* And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,*

I believe the same angel has the key. A star falling and an angel coming down is the same exact thing.

It could very well be the same angel good point. It does seem unlikely that the key would be handed first to Satan, then shortly after a good angel uses the same key to lock up Satan.

Definitely something to ponder on.

[divaD]

Re: The False Prophet

It could very well be the same angel good point. It does seem unlikely that the key would be handed first to Satan, then shortly after a good angel uses the same key to lock up Satan.

Definitely something to ponder on.

Does this help us determine chronology then? Obviously the events recorded in Rev 9, in regards to the pit, it is meaning after the pit has already been closed and locked. Obviously in Rev 20, in regards to the pit, it is initially meaning when the pit is closed and locked, then meaning when it is opened once satan is loosed from it.

The question is, is Rev 9 meaning when the pit is reopened after having been locked when the angel locked it after having cast satan into it? One problem with that, when satan is loosed from the pit, he goes out to deceive the nations. When the pit is opened in Rev 9 though, the locusts that emerge are not sent out to deceive the nations, but are instead sent out to torment those that have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

This says...and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. When and where though? Was it given to him once he reached the pit, or was it given to him before he even left heaven?

Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

This one on the other hand states...having the key of the bottomless pit

[ewq1938]

Re: The False Prophet

Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

This says...and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. When and where though? Was it given to him once he reached the pit, or was it given to him before he even left heaven?

The verb is in the Aorist tense which most of the time should be understood as past tense so he got the key in heaven.

[journeyman]

Re: The False Prophet

Moses is a prophet, Who is like unto thee, O LORD Ex.15:11

David is a prophet, LORD, who is like unto thee Ps.35:10

The false prophet says, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? Rev.13:4

[divaD]

Re: The False Prophet

The following is mainly for someone such as Ross to consider.

Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.


Assuming a position such as Amil, does it really seem reasonable that when satan got bound in the pit, these locusts we see in Rev 9 coming out of the pit were also bound and locked up with satan at the time? In Rev 20:1-3 there is no hint of any locusts getting cast into the pit with satan at the time. So when and how did they get in there then?

Maybe during events such as the following, which would have happened ages ago and not within the past 2000 years instead?

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

[ross3421]

Re: The False Prophet

[QUOTE]

Assuming a position such as Amil, does it really seem reasonable that when satan got bound in the pit, these locusts we see in Rev 9 coming out of the pit were also bound and locked up with satan at the time? In Rev 20:1-3 there is no hint of any locusts getting cast into the pit with satan at the time. So when and how did they get in there then?

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

When Satan is cast out here INTO the earth and woe to them in the sea so too are his angels which are the locusts (spirits) seen in the pit with their king.

[ewq1938]

Re: The False Prophet

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

When Satan is cast out here INTO the earth and woe to them in the sea so too are his angels which are the locusts (spirits) seen in the pit with their king.

They aren't cast into the pit though because they are entirely free in this world at that time which is how Satan starts the GT. He is also said to have a short time. His time to be locked in the pit comes in the future from Rev 12.

Rev 12:10* And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.*
Rev 12:11* And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.*
Rev 12:12* Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.*
Rev 12:13* And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.*

[ross3421]

Re: The False Prophet

The question is, is Rev 9 meaning when the pit is reopened after having been locked when the angel locked it after having cast satan into it? One problem with that, when satan is loosed from the pit, he goes out to deceive the nations. When the pit is opened in Rev 9 though, the locusts that emerge are not sent out to deceive the nations, but are instead sent out to torment those that have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

The torment occurs as when these evil spirits (locusts) strike those upon the earth. Notice in scriptures what are the reactions when evil spirits indwell species. I believe the torment happens only during the initial strike and the evil indwelling last 5 months. What happens after these locusts strike men? Then they are gathered as the army of Satan to battle. Satan now controls them as they are filled with an evil spirit.

So though they are tormented does not prevent them to be deceived? Do they not still receive willingly the mark of the beast? Would that not being deceived?

[divaD]

Re: The False Prophet

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

When Satan is cast out here INTO the earth and woe to them in the sea so too are his angels which are the locusts (spirits) seen in the pit with their king.

Yet when satan gets cast unto the earth, he sets out to persecute the woman, not get bound a thousand years in the pit instead.

Revelation 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

This does not equal getting bound in the pit a thousand years. The locusts in Rev 9 clearly prove that when one is locked up inside the pit they are not also roaming around the earth at the same time. Because if they were, no one would need to unlock the pit in order to unleash them to begin with. The same logic has to apply for satan as well. In Revelation 12:13 this would be satan outside of the pit, not inside of it, IOW, not bound. And before he is even cast to the earth he still had access to heaven. There is nowhere in all of Rev 12, which covers at least the past 2000 years, where satan can be bound a thousand years. There is nowhere it fits in that chapter. Nowhere.

[ross3421]

Re: The False Prophet

They aren't cast into the pit though because they are entirely free in this world at that time which is how Satan starts the GT. He is also said to have a short time. His time to be locked in the pit comes in the future from Rev 12.

Rev 12:10* And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.*
Rev 12:11* And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.*
Rev 12:12* Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.*
Rev 12:13* And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.*

Satan himself is not doing the persecution but he sends another.

Notice the serpent is located in the sea as he spews water out after the woman and note it even states that the woman is free from the face of the serpent for 3.5 years. This can only be if he is in the pit.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

[ross3421]

Re: The False Prophet

[QUOTE=divaD;3561308]

Yet when satan gets cast unto the earth, he sets out to persecute the woman, not get bound a thousand years in the pit instead.

Revelation 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

This does not equal getting bound in the pit a thousand years. The locusts in Rev 9 clearly prove that when one is locked up inside the pit they are not also roaming around the earth at the same time. Because if they were, no one would need to unlock the pit in order to unleash them to begin with. The same logic has to apply for satan as well. In Revelation 12:13 this would be satan outside of the pit, not inside of it, IOW, not bound.

Satan himself is not doing the persecution but he sends another.

Notice the serpent is located in the sea as he spews water out after the woman and note it even states that the woman is free from the face of the serpent for 3.5 years. This can only be if he is in the pit.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

[ewq1938]

Re: The False Prophet

Satan himself is not doing the persecution but he sends another. .

The bible says he does it.

"he persecuted the woman"

Notice the serpent is located in the sea

The bible doesn't say that either.

[ross3421]

Re: The False Prophet

why would satan have great wrath against the inhabiters of the bp while he is chained up inside of it?

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Its not what happens during inside the pit but rather after. What happens to those in the sea after the short time? So his wrath leads to the following.....

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

[divaD]

Re: The False Prophet

Satan himself is not doing the persecution but he sends another.

Notice the serpent is located in the sea as he spews water out after the woman and note it even states that the woman is free from the face of the serpent for 3.5 years. This can only be if he is in the pit.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

The text indicates in verse 13 the dragon persecutes the woman, the dragon meaning satan. I'm certain he didn't do it alone though the fact we are told his angels were cast out with him.

3.5 years are not even remotely a thousand years though. So verse 14 can't be meaning because he is in the pit at the time. And besides, the text tells us what he does next once his attempt to persecute the woman fails.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

[ross3421]

Re: The False Prophet

The text indicates in verse 13 the dragon persecutes the woman,

How does satan persecute the woman? By spewing water as flood towards her. He cant spew water if he is on earth. In addition he has to spew water as he is not on earth with her. The text says clearly the woman is safe from the FACE of the serpent.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

3.5 years are not even remotely a thousand years though. So verse 14 can't be meaning because he is in the pit at the time

.

The 1000 years are a metaphor, why John cannot determine measure time outside this realm ie time in the pit thus he uses the phrase "1000". But it does equal 3.5 years measured time on earth.