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  • Re: The False Prophet

    Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
    So what is the issue?
    I already assume you take Rev 9 in the literal sense, so was mainly wondering how Marty took it, since he is always mentioning things about demons and how this relates to Rome, etc. So I was wondering if he is taking Rev 9 and the locusts in the pit, in the spiritual sense, or in the literal sense. The reason why this matters, from what I can tell, he takes the binding of satan in the pit, in the spiritual sense, therefore it would be a contradiction if he didn't treat Rev 9 in the same manner, in regards to the locusts being confined in the pit then unleashed when the pit is open.

    Comment


    • Re: The False Prophet

      Originally posted by divaD View Post
      I was actually contemplating addressing this earlier when I initially saw this, but at the time I didn't have much of an answer, Still don't. One reason why, is because you are assuming everyone is interpreting what's in Isaiah 14 exactly like you are. But that's not necessarily the case. How then can someone answer this on your terms, when your terms assume that one agrees with how you are interpreting it, and because of that, depending on how one answers, if one answers this way, it means this, and if one answer it another way, it means that?

      As to me I don't even take those things in a literal sense, where anyone is literally ascending to heaven or higher. I simply see it being connected with 2 Thess 2 4, for one.
      You cant answer without causing a issue with your stance.

      So again, I give you another chance. When Satan falls from heaven in Isaiah 14 and goes down to the pit does this happen before or after the second coming? Be honest.

      12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
      13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
      14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
      15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

      Comment


      • Re: The False Prophet

        Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
        I will be like the most High.
        Isn't this pretty much what the one meant in the following verse is trying to achieve?

        2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

        Comment


        • Re: The False Prophet

          Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
          You cant answer without causing a issue with your stance.

          So again, I give you another chance. When Satan falls from heaven in Isaiah 14 and goes down to the pit does this happen before or after the second coming? Be honest.

          12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
          13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
          14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
          15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
          I don't know how to answer this on your terms since I'm not interpreting some or all of these things the same as you are. We would have to be on the same page first and be interpreting these things the same before I can even begin to try and answer what you are asking..

          Comment


          • Re: The False Prophet

            Originally posted by divaD View Post
            I don't know how to answer this on your terms since I'm not interpreting some or all of these things the same as you are. We would have to be on the same page first and be interpreting these things the same before I can even begin to try and answer what you are asking..
            Confused? Do you not think that literally in Is 14 that Lucifer falls from heaven and he is in the pit ect…..

            What then is your interpretation? Do you think this is all spiritual?

            Comment


            • Re: The False Prophet

              Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
              You cant answer without causing a issue with your stance.

              So again, I give you another chance. When Satan falls from heaven in Isaiah 14 and goes down to the pit does this happen before or after the second coming? Be honest.

              12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
              13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
              14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
              15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
              It has nothing to do with me thinking it is causing an issue with my stance if I answer, since I don't know if it does or not...seriously. If I am not interpreting some of these things the same as you, that makes all the difference in the world.

              Comment


              • Re: The False Prophet

                Originally posted by divaD View Post
                It has nothing to do with me thinking it is causing an issue with my stance if I answer, since I don't know if it does or not...seriously. If I am not interpreting some of these things the same as you, that makes all the difference in the world.
                Ok. can you then answer this question?

                Where is Satan at the start of Rev 13?

                Note....If Satan has 7 heads and 10 horns then how could he be on earth watching a beast with 7 heads and 10 horns coming up from the sea?

                The following text proves Satan had to be in the pit prior to the second coming

                " The beast that thou sawest WAS, and IS NOT; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition."

                The understanding of this text in that the beast "was" in heaven as seen in Rev 12, and "is not" as he was cast to the ground Rev 12 , and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit.

                Thus the understanding of "is not" would have to be time in the pit if then he is ascending out from the pit.

                Satan the dragon was in heaven and was cast to the ground thus the remainder of the verse must also apply and "was not" then must mean Satan in the pit as in the same verse one is coming up from the bottomless pit.!!!!

                Thus the beast with 7 heads and 10 horns can't only be the one thrown into the pit while the dragon with 7 heads and 10 horns is only cast to the ground...…

                Now the beast coming up from the sea Rev 13 is NOT the same beast seen coming up from the pit in Rev 11, 17. The beast coming up from the sea Rev 13 is less Satan as Satan remains chained in the pit but gives power to the beast. Then Satan the 8th, little horn, second beast come up from the pit Rev 11, 17.


                Understand what are the 7 heads also adds support.

                First need to understand the heads are part of the dragon himself, they are part of his body, they all represent Satan himself.

                It would be like if you had 7 other heads, eyes, arms ect…. These 7 heads are upon the dragon and are seen in heaven and coming up from the sea. Thus the 7 heads cannot represent kingdoms. Kingdoms are not upon the dragon nor are they located in heaven nor come up from the sea. These seven heads must be spiritual in nature as being in heaven and come up from the sea. These 7 heads are spiritual kings of a kingdom in which the dragon is THE (8th king) head. Now these spiritual kings do come upon the earth and become physical kings upon earth.

                Comment


                • Re: The False Prophet

                  Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
                  Ok. can you then answer this question?

                  Where is Satan at the start of Rev 13?
                  Let's see if we can answer that with Rev 12.

                  He would either be where he is seen in verses 2-4, or where he is seen in verse 7 where he still had access to heaven until this war broke out, or where is he is seen in verses 13-17. So take your pick. All of the above covers at least the past 2000 years. Where in any of those past 2000 years could he have ever been in the pit?


                  Depending when he gets cast unto the earth, that means all of the rest of the time that preceded him getting cast to te earth, he still had access to heaven. That means there's at least 4000 years right there, maybe even 6000 years, where he still had access to heaven since it is not until this war breaks out that he no longer has access to heaven. Obviously that means he still had access to heaven since the creation of man, up until this war in heaven. If this war in heaven is still future to us, that means he still has access to heaven even now, thus at least 6000 years since the beginning of man. If this war in heaven was in the first century, it would only be 4000 years or so since the beginning of man, that he continued to have access to heaven.

                  Comment


                  • Re: The False Prophet

                    Originally posted by boangry View Post
                    But he was the serpent, and he is the dragon, I think You mean hes technically not designated as the beast, but who is?
                    The antichrist and his False Prophet are the "beasts", not Satan. The Biblical use of the word, 'beast' starting from the Book of Daniel, denotes those e.g. a king, kingdom or an individual that oppress and subjugate Israel. This means that the beast must be physical! Throughout scripture, Satan never took on human form, instead, he uses people to do his bidding.

                    The problem I have with this, would be the same as if you tried to tell me Jesus was not the prophet that was foretold to come, that he was not the deliverer in the vein of Moses, come to rescue his people, that He was only here in the role of Christ or conversely that Jesus was not the anointed one or the one chosen by God(the Christ) that he was just the prophet who was to deliver His people. Yet we can see and we know the role is one and the same they can not be split, the prophet performs signs and authenticates that he is the mouth piece of God.

                    So I don't understand how or why the role needs split for the imposter to now become two imposters? maybe you can explain?
                    Rev 13 plainly shows that a distinction exists between the two beasts - the AC and his false prophet. If what is scripturally plain is lost to you, you are probably still drinking milk.

                    As ive said I don't understand how your reasoning can arrive to two different entities, so ill try and explain a bit more of why my reasoning has trouble seeing the AC as the second beast.

                    Isaiah 14

                    You said in your heart,
                    “I will ascend to the heavens;
                    I will raise my throne
                    above the stars of God;
                    I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
                    on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon.

                    I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
                    I will make myself like the Most High.”


                    But you are brought down to the realm of the dead,
                    to the depths of the pit.


                    Those who see you stare at you,
                    they ponder your fate:
                    “Is this the man who shook the earth
                    and made kingdoms tremble

                    A lot of the commentators I read have identified Satan as the beast the killing the two witnesses Rev 11:7 When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them and overcome them, and kill them. Which I have to agree with them, I can find scripture references for Satan being in the pit, but I cant find any for the AC being in the pit and coming out and killing the two witnesses?
                    Well, you and the so-called commentators who believe Satan killed the 2Ws are wrong! In Rev 11:7 we are told that they are killed by the beast that ascended out of the bottomless pit. Satan is not in the pit now and couldn't be the culprit. However, Rev 9:11 tells who the killer is - Abaddon or Apollyon.

                    As I said its a hard one, but then to me it says God gave the Second beast power to give breath to the image of the beast, if some people think that's supernaturally tricking people like putting a speaker in its mouth and talking from a hundred miles away then they are allowed to think that, but I still think Gods inspired Word is telling us it came to life(in what ever capacity) and to me it needs thrown into the LOF if this is indeed what has happened.
                    The scripture doesn't tell us that the image of the beast was cast into the lake of fire. Why? Because it is merely an image. Destroy the entity that empowered it and it becomes no more than wood, stone or whatever material it's made with. Thus in Rev 19:20 the AC+False Prophet are cast alive into the LoF. And nothing more was heard of the image.

                    Comment


                    • Re: The False Prophet

                      Originally posted by divaD View Post
                      He would either be where he is seen in verses 2-4,
                      How could Satan be in heaven starting rev 13 when he was kicked out of heaven in rev 12?

                      or where he is seen in verse 7 where he still had access to heaven until this war broke out
                      How can he still have access to heaven in Rev 13 when he was kicked out of heaven after the war.????

                      The war and battle occur just before the 3.5 years. Then Satan is kicked out before the 3.5 years starts.

                      or where is he is seen in verses 13-17. So take your pick.
                      Even if Satan was on earth in these verses how do you explain his 7 heads and 10 horns being in the pit. How and when did they get there? Which we then see coming up from the pit at the start of Rev 13.

                      All of the above covers at least the past 2000 years. Where in any of those past 2000 years could he have ever been in the pit?
                      Verses 13-17 he is actually in the pit. IE 3.5 years. And for the same 3.5 years in rev 13.

                      So again. Satan cannot be in heaven at the start of rev 13. And he cannot be on earth with 7 heads and 10 horns coming up from the pit with himself with 7 heads and 10 horns on earth at the same time.

                      Depending when he gets cast unto the earth, that means all of the rest of the time that preceded him getting cast to te earth, he still had access to heaven. That means there's at least 4000 years right there, maybe even 6000 years, where he still had access to heaven since it is not until this war breaks out that he no longer has access to heaven. Obviously that means he still had access to heaven since the creation of man, up until this war in heaven. If this war in heaven is still future to us, that means he still has access to heaven even now, thus at least 6000 years since the beginning of man. If this war in heaven was in the first century, it would only be 4000 years or so since the beginning of man, that he continued to have access to heaven.
                      The war is future and happens up to the last 3.5 years. Thus there is not 1000s of years between the war Rev 12 and the last 3.5 years. Not sure your point?

                      The last few posts don't seem like you, are you OK?

                      Comment


                      • Re: The False Prophet

                        Originally posted by ross3421 View Post



                        The war is future and happens up to the last 3.5 years. Thus there is not 1000s of years between the war Rev 12 and the last 3.5 years. Not sure your point?

                        This right here makes my point. If the war is still future with 3.5 years remaining after it happens, what would that obviously mean? It would mean since the creation of man up until this future war, satan would still have access to heaven. satan can't be bound in the pit while he still has access to heaven. So this would mean since the creation of man up until this future war, there would be at least 6000 years that he has continual access to heaven before getting kicked out unto the earth. In order for him to even emerge from the bp, an angel has to first come down from heaven in order to cast him into it for a thousand years. But if he still has access to heaven before he is cast to the earth, then only 3.5 years remaining once he is cast unto the earth, how could he have possibly been in the pit before this final 3.5 years? The pit is not in heaven. The pit is obviously in the earth. We're told the beast ascends from it. Ascend means up, so that means the beast is below the surface of the earth in order to ascend.

                        Comment


                        • Re: The False Prophet

                          Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
                          How could Satan be in heaven starting rev 13 when he was kicked out of heaven in rev 12?
                          Satan is not in heaven in Rev 13.
                          James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
                            Re: The False Prophet


                            The antichrist and his False Prophet are the "beasts", not Satan. The Biblical use of the word, 'beast' starting from the Book of Daniel, denotes those e.g. a king, kingdom or an individual that oppress and subjugate Israel. This means that the beast must be physical! Throughout scripture, Satan never took on human form, instead, he uses people to do his bidding.


                            Rev 13 plainly shows that a distinction exists between the two beasts - the AC and his false prophet.
                            Hi Trivalee,

                            I agree that Satan is not the beast (Rev 13:4 confirms two entities). I also agree that the symbol of beast denotes a king, kingdom or individual that subjugate Israel.

                            However I see nothing that precludes the beast from being a demon king. Daniel 10 confirms regional demon kings do exist.

                            The beast comes up from the pit just like the demon king Apollyon, and like Satan will do at the end of the 1000 years, indicating that it's location is that of demons, being in that bottomless pit.

                            In addition in Dan 7:17 there are only 4 kings associated with 4 entire kingdoms, not 50 or 100 human kings. This points to demon kings, not human kings, because there are no 4 human kings that can be especially identified with 4 kingdoms lasting thousands of years.

                            Have you any verse that would indicate otherwise?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
                              Re: The False Prophet



                              The antichrist and his False Prophet are the "beasts", not Satan. The Biblical use of the word, 'beast' starting from the Book of Daniel, denotes those e.g. a king, kingdom or an individual that oppress and subjugate Israel. This means that the beast must be physical! Throughout scripture, Satan never took on human form, instead, he uses people to do his bidding.
                              I guess one of the differences between our views would be whether Satan took on the form of a man, My view sees Satan not only as a man, but as ruling over men or kingdoms, and being the prince of this world, I see Satan as entering Judas and the Lord commanding them to do quickly what they were about to do, (the reason the Lord used Satan to accomplish this could be that Judas was weak and liable to not lead the mob to the Lord.

                              Also there are numerous verses that tie in the world rulers or kings with descriptions of Satan for example

                              Eze 29:3 Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river is mine own, and I have made it for myself.

                              Eze 28:12-13a Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God.


                              Rev 13 plainly shows that a distinction exists between the two beasts - the AC and his false prophet. If what is scripturally plain is lost to you, you are probably still drinking milk.
                              Again, Ive always said there is a distinction between the beasts, As to the identity of them your position is duly noted, but this is what I see when I look at your position.

                              The Man of sin (the Antichrist) according to 2thes 2 comes with the working of Satan, with all power, signs and lying wonders.

                              The first beast comes with the working of the second beast, with all power signs and false miracles, and deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs.

                              So I see that your making your false prophet perform exactly the same work and role as I see Satan does, yet I simply make scripture harmonise and conclude it is Satan.

                              To me this makes sense because Jesus the son of God, is the Christ and also the prophet that is to come in likeness to Moses, that He is the Christ and the Prophet.

                              I see the man of sin as His nemesis so to speak, he is the Antichrist and false prophet.

                              When Moses was sent by God to tell the people to follow him out of Egypt, Moses said to God they will not listen to me, God said to Moses perform these signs and they will believe I sent you because of the signs . It is a dual purpose role provided by God.



                              Well, you and the so-called commentators who believe Satan killed the 2Ws are wrong! In Rev 11:7 we are told that they are killed by the beast that ascended out of the bottomless pit. Satan is not in the pit now and couldn't be the culprit. However, Rev 9:11 tells who the killer is - Abaddon or Apollyon.
                              I see your position also has three beasts, the Antichrist and the false prophet and Abaddon who comes up out of the pit, I personally see more problems with abaddon being the third beast than solutions, I presume most people see him as the angel who destroys the first born in Egypt, yet this seems to be all that is said about him if he is a separate entity.

                              At least If I view him as Satan, I see elaborate detail about what he did throughout the old testament and the new, (hence the description in both Hebrew and Greek) that he was cast out of the world, or that he was bound, that he caused a war in heaven and was king of the 1/3 angels, That he played a role with the fall of man and death entering our world, That he will be put in the pit etc etc I mean to me it makes sense that Satan is attributed the description of the destroyer.

                              Yet when I try and comprehend it from your viewpoint, that he is another king of the demons, what can I conclude from scripture, that he destroyed the firstborn in Egypt, and after he ascends and makes war against the two witnesses is that it? what did he do that he ended up in the pit, when and how did he get put in there, who are the demons in there with him?



                              The scripture doesn't tell us that the image of the beast was cast into the lake of fire. Why? Because it is merely an image. Destroy the entity that empowered it and it becomes no more than wood, stone or whatever material it's made with. Thus in Rev 19:20 the AC+False Prophet are cast alive into the LoF. And nothing more was heard of the image.
                              I get why you think this, from a human perspective it seems far fetched, so what can I say? Yet I still think with the word breath being used means scripture is indicating being given a spirit, In the same sense Adam was given breath, so the image built of the AC is given breath. rightly or wrongly im not going to discount it if I think it is what is being conveyed in the bible.

                              Just a question so I can understand your view a wee bit better, when you have the beast and FP thrown alive into the lake of fire, do you see the beast as abaddon?

                              Also If I can requote this,
                              The Biblical use of the word, 'beast' starting from the Book of Daniel, denotes those e.g. a king, kingdom or an individual that oppress and subjugate Israel. This means that the beast must be physical! Throughout scripture, Satan never took on human form, instead, he uses people to do his bidding
                              Would not most people say Satan rather than abaddon would fit your description of a beast or are you meaning just till Rev 13?



                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by boangry View Post

                                At least If I view him as Satan, I see elaborate detail about what he did throughout the old testament and the new, (hence the description in both Hebrew and Greek) that he was cast out of the world, or that he was bound, that he caused a war in heaven and was king of the 1/3 angels, That he played a role with the fall of man and death entering our world, That he will be put in the pit etc etc I mean to me it makes sense that Satan is attributed the description of the destroyer.

                                I also believe Satan will also be the Ac...multi roles.

                                What I have prepared on this:

                                Who is the wicked one spoken of in these verses?


                                1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.


                                We all know this is satan.


                                1 John 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.


                                We all know this is satan.


                                1 John 2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.


                                We all know this is satan.


                                1 John 2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.


                                We all know this is satan.


                                Matthew 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
                                Matthew 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.


                                Here we are told directly it is the devil!


                                Now that we have that established:


                                2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
                                2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
                                2 Thessalonians 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
                                2 Thessalonians 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
                                2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
                                2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:



                                Paul calls the Antichrist three names, all names of Satan but "that Wicked" is the easiest to prove to be none other than Satan.


                                Don't worry that this says "Wicked" while the others say "wicked one". It is the same wording, and the word "one" is added for clarity the other times.


                                Matt 13:38
                                38 Ho dé agrós estin ho kósmos Tó dé kalón spérma
                                3588 1161 68 2076 3588 2889 3588 1161 2570 4690
                                The field is the world; the good seed
                                hoútoí eisin hoi huioí teés basileías Tá dé zizániá
                                3778 1526 3588 5207 3588 932 3588 1161 2215
                                are the children of the kingdom; the but tares
                                eisin hoi huioí toú poneeroú
                                1526 3588 5207 3588 4190 9999
                                are the children of the wicked one;
                                (Interlinear Transliterated Bible. Copyright (c) 1994 by Biblesoft)

                                9999 means the word "one" was added.



                                2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
                                2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


                                Realize that Paul is referring to what Isaiah wrote:


                                Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
                                Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
                                Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
                                Isaiah 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
                                Isaiah 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;



                                Satan is called the son of perdition because that's his fate:


                                Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.


                                Isaiah makes clear it is Satan that is cast into that pit as well as the 5th trump which calls Satan the "angel of the pit", not to mention Satan being cast into the pit for 1000 years.

                                So, Isaiah speaks of lucifer/satan and mentions things that Paul says the antichrist shall do, using the same examples we find in Isaiah. Then, we see the same things happening to satan in Revelation. It doesn't take much to realize Paul is saying satan will be the antichrist. We only need to connect the dots.





                                2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
                                2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,


                                Paul not only calls Satan the "man of sin" and the "son of perdition" but also calls him "that Wicked". Those three names should be enough for any bible reading Christian to fully recognize who Paul is speaking about.


                                "whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders"


                                (the word after in the Greek does not mean "after" as in chronological order but "after" as in "like" or "according to")



                                So why you ask does Paul say this Wicked person comes "after" the workings of Satan?


                                Because it is Satan. He comes "after" or LIKE Satan because he is satan...this Antichrist "role" Satan will play is "like" himself because Satan likes to deceive with "power and signs and lying wonders"


                                This is like saying "the Terminator is after or like the working of Arnold Schwarzenegger". Why is that? Because the Terminator is a ROLE Schwarzenegger played and was in fact Schwarzenegger all along just acting or pretending to be a machine from the future. The Antichrist will also be a ROLE that Satan plays (acting or pretending to be God), and yes, will have been Satan all along too. It is truly the greatest act of deception that will ever have been attempted and for a short time it will be extremely successful. Don't be deceived. If someone thinks the antichrist will be a human man influenced by satan, they have already been deceived. No wonder the antichrist will fool so many because they are pre-deceived before it ever happens.



                                2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

                                The falling away is Apostasy and that means Christians leaving the faith for a false God. It has no other meaning, so realize the horrible level of spiritual devastation that is coming to the "body of Christ"!


                                Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.


                                So who is the beast that comes out of the pit and goes into perdition?


                                Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
                                Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
                                Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.


                                Its Satan of course, the son of perdition. Perdition means to perish and that's what will happen to Satan after he ascends from the pit.



                                Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
                                Revelation 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
                                Revelation 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
                                Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


                                Don't think the seven headed beast and the false prophet are literal things or people, its all symbology partially explained in Rev 17.


                                Anyone looking for some wicked human antichrist-man is going to be fooled when Satan appears pretending to be Christ, known as the Antichrist. Do not be fooled by a type or foreshadow or similarity of the Antichrist. I have no doubt that some human man will come on the scene and make most Christians think he is fulfilling the Antichrist prophecies...but he wont be the actual AC, but only a type...only a trick to fool Christians looking for "an" Antichrist instead of "the" Antichrist.


                                The Antichrist and the False prophet are one in the same, the same being. It's like saying a President and George Washington. The one often called the "political beast" is the first beast of Rev 13 which is a governmental system ruling the world and the "religious" beast is the false prophet/Antichrist whom is a single being that claims to be God and rules over the first beast and thus the world. All of that together with the deceived people worshipping him constitutes the whore Babylon which simply translates as "confusion".




                                1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.


                                Antichrist will come, but until then many types of the AC shall come...do NOT fall for a type as the real thing. There are all those that deny Christ which makes them Antichrist's because they oppose Christ but the other thing John wrote about is the singular, specific one that is called Antichrist. He is not merely just one of the others. He is unique and he is the one that is most dangerous. He is called by many other names than Antichrist but Antichrist is the most used in Christianity.


                                The AC will be Satan, a supernatural being who will claim to be God, specifically Jesus Christ. He will have "powers" and will look like and present himself as Christ and that's how he is able to fool the world, even Christians. Most Christians as yourself are expecting a human AC and Satan knows this and will take advantage of it.

                                Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

                                The Devil will cast some people into prison during the tribulation! Could he do that while acting in the role of the antichrist?

                                2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
                                2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; [font color=red]so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God[/font].
                                2 Thessalonians 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
                                2 Thessalonians 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
                                2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
                                2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:


                                Rev 9:10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
                                Rev 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.



                                Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
                                Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
                                Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
                                Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

                                Did you notice Lucifer, the fallen ANGEL will be in the pit?

                                Rev 9:10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
                                Rev 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.


                                2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
                                2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


                                Is it a coincidence that Lucifer/Satan wanted to do the same things the antichrist is prophesied to do? Can you imagine the level of deception if satan himself, the fallen archangel, were to pretend to be God? After being kicked out of heaven, doesn't it make sense that satan himself would try to be God on the world stage known as the great tribulation? The last time he really is allowed any power before Christ returns? It amazes me people are still thinking it's just going to be some man satan influences...

                                James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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