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  • Re: The False Prophet

    Originally posted by Revelation Man View Post
    No they aren't, the 7th Head/Mountain has yet to arrive.
    We are currently in the 7th head stage. The 8th is still coming.

    Rome is the 4th and final beast.

    But this has to co-incide with the 6th, 7th and 8th kings
    This indicates 3 stages of Rome, we can find these 3 stages in Dan 2:
    Iron legs, two feet, ten toes.

    The iron legs stage is complete. We are currently in the two feet stage, EU/Rome and Turkey/Istanbul.

    The antichrist will arise during the ten horns /ten toes stage.

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    • Re: The False Prophet

      Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
      We are currently in the 7th head stage. The 8th is still coming.

      Rome is the 4th and final beast.

      But this has to co-incide with the 6th, 7th and 8th kings
      This indicates 3 stages of Rome, we can find these 3 stages in Dan 2:
      Iron legs, two feet, ten toes.

      The iron legs stage is complete. We are currently in the two feet stage, EU/Rome and Turkey/Istanbul.

      The antichrist will arise during the ten horns /ten toes stage.

      Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

      After the five are fallen stage, there are only two stages remaining... and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

      There is no 8 headed beast, the beast only has 7 heads. One of it's head is wounded though, then is healed. But that still doesn't make the 7 headed beast an 8 headed beast. Either we are still in this head stage...and one is...until we get to this head stage...and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space...or see the other option below in the last paragraph. It does not say there is another head stage after when he cometh, he must continue a short space. This is during this head stage...and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.


      But if we are no longer in this head stage...and one is...and not yet in this head stage...and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space....that means there is a gap between...and one is...and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. Who knows then, maybe that gap explains the gap between the 69th and 70th week?

      Comment


      • Re: The False Prophet

        Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
        The way you and ewq are reading Rev 17 needs clarification. The NIV is pretty clear that the 7 consecutive kings relate to the 7 heads.

        The KJV is more ambiguous, but if you regard those 7 consecutive kings as unrelated to the beast, why does the Bible decide to introduce 7 consecutive kings into the text, if unrelated to the 7 heads of the beast just mentioned?

        Not just the NIV, but the Amplified and some other Bibles (eg ASV) also associate the 7 heads with the 7 consecutive kings.
        AmP:: The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits; and THEY are seven kings: five of whom have fallen, one exists and is reigning
        Though you might disagree with some or all of what I submitted in post #107, still, in that post I think I am somewhat on the same page you are on here.

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        • Re: The False Prophet

          Originally posted by divaD View Post
          Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

          After the five are fallen stage, there are only two stages remaining... and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

          There is no 8 headed beast, the beast only has 7 heads. One of it's head is wounded though, then is healed. But that still doesn't make the 7 headed beast an 8 headed beast. Either we are still in this head stage...and one is...until we get to this head stage...and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space...or see the other option below in the last paragraph. It does not say there is another head stage after when he cometh, he must continue a short space. This is during this head stage...and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.


          But if we are no longer in this head stage...and one is...and not yet in this head stage...and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space....that means there is a gap between...and one is...and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. Who knows then, maybe that gap explains the gap between the 69th and 70th week?
          They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. 11 The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king.

          The 7 represent history until the GT.

          The GT beast is the 8th.

          Comment


          • Re: The False Prophet

            Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
            They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. 11 The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king.

            The 7 represent history until the GT.

            The GT beast is the 8th.
            and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

            So you are saying all of the above is history up until the time of the GT?

            The text says...of the other one who is not yet come(meaning the 7th king)....and when he cometh(meaning the 7th king), he must continue a short space.

            What does continue a short space mean to you?

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            • Re: The False Prophet

              Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
              They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. 11 The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king.

              The 7 represent history until the GT.

              The GT beast is the 8th.


              Revelation 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
              8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
              9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
              10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
              11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
              12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
              13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.


              and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition

              And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
              ------------------------------------------------

              And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

              five are fallen....the beast that was, meaning during the times of the five that have fallen.

              and one is....and is not, meaning during the time of one is.

              and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space....even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition, meaning during the time of the other that is not yet come.
              --------------------------------------------

              So how can he be the eighth, and is of the seven? I still haven't figured that out. Maybe the following is a clue?

              Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

              Or if not that, maybe it has something to do with there being two key players in Rev 13 rather than one? The two key players being the beast and the fp.

              Comment


              • Re: The False Prophet

                Originally posted by divaD View Post
                In Dan 7 it doesn't, but in Rev 13 it does. In Dan 7 these 4 beasts that rise out of the sea consist of 7 heads total, but not on the same beast though. In Rev 13 all 7 heads are on the same beast that rises up from the sea.
                In Rev 13 we see a beast. Notice that the beast is like a lion, bear, leopard hence the remaining heads so in total the beast has seven heads still like Dan 7. Now what we are seeing in Rev 13 is the combining of all beasts under one beast. Notice the crowns are no longer on the heads but the horns which confirms power now to this fourth beast. So there are still seven heads combined.


                1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
                2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

                Comment


                • Re: The False Prophet

                  Originally posted by divaD View Post
                  But how can it meaning them though? Those are heads not horns. The horns are only on the head of the 4th beast, that according to Dan 7:20.
                  Well it cant be 3 of the ten horns as all the 10 horns are intact till Christ returns. So then the horns must be synomonous for beasts and or "horn" is a mistranslation.

                  Also as pointed out there are three which fall to the fourth beast...lion bear, leopard as seen in Rev 13.

                  Note there are two other verses which do not say horns but that three fell. Notice one says kings, are not the four beasts four kings?

                  20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell;

                  24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

                  17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

                  Comment


                  • Re: The False Prophet

                    [QUOTE]
                    Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
                    HI Ross.

                    history shows us that the 4 heads of the leopard beast are the 4 divisions of the Greek Empire, simultaneous.
                    We need to use the bible not history.

                    Yet the wording of Rev 17 shows us that the 7 heads of the 4th beast are consecutive, not simultaneous.
                    I agree they all 7 arise simultaneously and fall consecutively.

                    The problem is you equate the 7 heads to a past kingdoms. But this is in error. Dan 7 is a picture of the fourth kingdom of Dan 2. The future first four seals in when they arise, Rev 13 then shows us the fourth of these beasts in power over the kingdom.

                    Comment


                    • Re: The False Prophet

                      Originally posted by divaD View Post
                      If they are simultaneous, where I tend to get that impression as well, IMO verse 2 in Rev 13 would be the reason why. But I do see DurbanDude's point as well. But why would John see a 7 headed beast rise up from the sea if 5 of those heads were no longer significant?
                      At the time of Rev 13 5 have not fallen yet. They are under the fourth beast but still have power for a while. Note when the fourth beast arises it has time, times, and half of time to continue. What does Dan 7 say?

                      12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

                      So then all four beasts reign together for a [time, times, half of time] minus [season and a time]. So all the heads then do not fall until a season and a time remains of the 42 months. Until then they rule together. As mentioned the first four seals show them ruling together.

                      The assumption of rev 17 and the falling of the heads and the "one is" is a past event is in error. John is seeing this vision in Rev 17 in the future at which time "one is".

                      The seven heads rise up together which has not yet happened. They will then fall consecutively thereafter.

                      Comment


                      • Re: The False Prophet

                        Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                        The 7 mountains are not the 7 kings of which 6 fell before the 7th rises up. That 7th kingdom is the Rev 13:1 beast which has 7 heads, none had fallen because heads and kings are not the same things in Rev. Only horns are kings in the book.
                        And the Seven Heads of the Beasts ARE the 7 POWERS that arose {Mountains}. It seems to escape you that in the exact same PASSAGE that they are called Mountains, we get the Kings that FALL/Lose Dominion. Its showing that 7 Kings AROSE to Beast Powers via John looking back in time from the very end to Egypt. And 7 Kings will also LOSE POWER or Dominion via falling. The Last Beast Head both ARISES and FALLS and is the only one to do so, that is what is meant by he rules for a SHORT TIME {One Hour with the Kings or 42 months}.

                        The 7 Heads are National Powers of course the first 5 had fallen man, and Rome WAS [still in power].

                        Comment


                        • Re: The False Prophet

                          Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
                          So then the horns must be synomonous for beasts and or "horn" is a mistranslation.
                          The following proves it was not a mistranslation though.

                          Daniel 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
                          8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.


                          In verse 8 the context involves nothing but horns.

                          I considered the horns(the ten horns mentioned in verse 7)

                          behold, there came up among them(the ten horns mentioned in verse 7) another little horn

                          before whom(another little horn) there were three of the first horns(the ten horns mentioned in verse 7) plucked up by the roots

                          Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

                          As can be seen here, these horns are kings.

                          Daniel 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

                          So when it says kings in this verse it is meaning horns since horns also mean kings.

                          Comment


                          • Re: The False Prophet

                            Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
                            In Rev 13 we see a beast. Notice that the beast is like a lion, bear, leopard hence the remaining heads so in total the beast has seven heads still like Dan 7. Now what we are seeing in Rev 13 is the combining of all beasts under one beast. Notice the crowns are no longer on the heads but the horns which confirms power now to this fourth beast. So there are still seven heads combined.


                            1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
                            2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
                            I think we are pretty much on the same page here.

                            Comment


                            • Re: The False Prophet

                              Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
                              Generally I do agree with you here, except a subtle difference when you say the Rev 13 beast is a human. It does seem like that but I prefer to stay consistent with the symbols. Ie beasts are kingdoms and /or demon kings. The Rev 13 beast only starts matching the behavior of the little horn when "given a mouth".
                              The demon king, when "given a mouth" is a boastful ruler who rules for 42 months. I therefore see the moment of being given a mouth, as representing the demon given a human mouthpiece, a human way of expression. Expressing itself through a human. The beast is cast into the lake of fire, not the human mouthpiece.
                              Well I think we both would agree hes born with a mouth so you are saying hes influenced by DARK FORCES so to speak, well that is the case pf course with all men who go to hell, but they have the same rights before God that we do, FREE WILL, so they choose their own destiny, else God would be unjust to condemn them. Daniel 7:11 tells us that HIS BODY will be Destroyed, thus this BEAST has to be a MAN.

                              Daniel 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

                              Demons don't have bodies, this is a man, that is why in Rev. 13 he is given the moniker of 666, I don't think its a name at all, I think it just denotes him to be a man {666 is the number of man, whereas 777 stands for the Godhead}.

                              Regarding Apollyon, I'm not convinced yet that it is a Persian demon to re-arise, it seems more like a demon related to Antiochus, a Greek controlled kingdom based in Assyria. If we compare behavior of demons, the behavior under Antiochus is closely matching the future behavior of the antichrist. This is the demon who I expect to arise, the one during the time the Seleucids controlled the Levant.
                              Hes not a Persian Demon per se, he is a Mediterranean Sea Region Demonic Entity who has been tasked with DESTROYING Israel, thus the name Apollyon means Destroyer, that is what the Jews named him. He was trying to kill the Jews via Egypt, he tried to kill them via Assyria, via Babylon, God overruled him via Persia it seems, he then resisted Micheal for 21 days in regard to allowing Alexander the Great to defeat Persia, then via Greece he tried to Destroy Israel, then via Rome we had the diaspora. As the Church Age came about, God placed him in the Bottomless Pit for nigh 2000 years now, and he will be released at the 1st Woe.

                              Being a Beast Power/Demonic Stronghold doesn't mean one has to be possessed, Apollyon isn't even released until the First Woe or the 5th Trumpet. Men have and make their own decisions via INFLUENCE by Demons, Possession is another bag entirely. He arises to FINISH his calling, to Destroy Israel !!

                              Thus he is of the SEVEN..............But is an 8th {because hes a King of the Bottomless Pit}. Their is no 8th Kingdom on earth.

                              Comment


                              • Re: The False Prophet

                                Originally posted by ross3421 View Post

                                12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
                                This is where Premil explains this part. This is meaning once the little horn is given to the burning flame. And if that is meaning the same beast we see getting cast into the LOF at the 2nd coming, that means verse 12 above has to be fulfilled during a time post the 2nd coming. There is only one thing, and one thing only, that could possibly explain that. That being the thousand years and satan's little season.

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